₦airaland Forum

HumbledbYGrace: hmmm, didn't your pope support gays? What's the fuss all about? The truth?

You said you would ban any anti-Catholic calling us "demonic" or "satanic."

Were you lying when you said that?

HumbledbYGrace: I have so far taken you bias and I will not take it anymore, this is the last time.

You will rather take this, wont you?

Nonybb:
The Pope that supported Gay. His Prayers are worthless to me and He is indeed praying to his follow demons
www.nairaland.com/1429004/pope-francis-leads-global-fasting/2

Your job here is to persecute Catholics, isnt it?

Logicboy03: When caught in a lie, throw that lie back on the accuser


Italo, you no get sense. Have you not even seen where atheist make the argument that it is impossible to be omniscient due to the contradiction of freewill and also knowledge itself?

If they are not omniscient, then they cannot say categorically that God or his miracles dont exist. Period!

Logicboy03: How can you tell this blatant lie in bold when you have your ex-catholic brother, Logicboy, here with you?

Leaving the catholic church has made me a better person
-I no longer have to lie or be ignorant about the evils of the catholic church eg slavery, crusades etc
-I dont discriminate against gays or other religions
-I dont commit sins and deceive myself that I am in a state of grace after running to the father for confession and pennance
-I dont belong to a church that preaches lies and ignorance against condoms. Saying condoms are evil
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/sep/11/bad-science-pope-anti-condom

Everything you say on this anonymous forum is unverified and unverifiable.

If we are to go by your words, you are a living LIE. You pretend to be Catholic in real life. How do we even know you are not a muslim or a satanist just trying to further the agenda of satan.

Logicboy03: Italo, you are a liar.


It is also rare for an atheist to become a christian....it happens but rare

At least, I know many. Almost all have said Catholicism made them better human beings.

wiegraf: 2+2=4 is open to interpretion?
Logic itself isn't subjective. Axioms (for lack of a better word), on the other hand, could be. Note; 'could'

Aren't you tired of dancing? Show which axioms are subjective or SHARRAP

I dont know what you are talking about.

I do know, however, that various people hold on to contradictory positions and declare their positions to be in conformity with logic.

What you have failed to do is tell me why your understanding of 'conformity to objective logic' should be adopted by all the world.

Logicboy03: What is with you and strawmen? I wont address your lousy accusations

My point here has been made. There are rules of logic and fallacies we use to point out weak arguments.


Now, answer my question- list 3 reasons why you are agnostic or disbelieve in the toothfairy

You interpret the rules to suit your position; others interpret the rules to suit their position.

It doesnt make you any more logical than they.

I asnswered your question in post 417.

HumbledbYGrace: seen.

Waiting for your decision.

tosomaju: i dey pity that jeezus wen dey the catholic church near my house. He dey cross since i know am, no body gree help am come down

Everytime you sin, you crucify him again and again.

So rather, pity yourself and all sinners.

The Eucharist is the summit of our worship. For what could be more profound than having God-Jesus come into our bodies and souls in that unfathomable expression of love. Not singing, not prayer, not miracle, not vigil, not praise, NOTHING...I tell you!

striktlymi: Morning Italo,

Um...I believe the dude that accused our dear Holy father of being a demon does not deserve a 'straight red card' in this case. I am of the opinion that he should be given a stern warning instead and if he is unrepentant then the ban can come in.

Like I said before, your ban was not deserved. You should have gotten a friendly caution first before the 'big hammer'.

I'm not trying to make the rules (whether to ban or to caution).

I'm only trying to do two things:

1. To ensure that the rules apply to everyone equally without bias. If I was deservedly banned, then everyone who does something similar should be banned. If I didnt deserve the ban, then I deserve an apology.

2. To challenge Humbledbygrace to keep to her word. If she meant what she said, she should ban everyone that does something similar. If she didnt mean her words, she should apologize to me for the ban and everyone else for deceiving us with that "yes."

italo: As the mods no come answer our questions, complaints and comments nko...

I still dey ask Humbledbygrace:

Will she ban Atheists that call Christians "fools,""retards,""low IQ" etc and anti-catholics that call Catholics "demonic,""satanic" etc the way she banned me for mentioning satan?

HumbledbYGrace: Yes

Now lets see humbledbygrace keep to her word.

Nonybb: The Pope that supported Gay. His Prayers are worthless to me and He is indeed praying to his follow demons

www.nairaland.com/1429004/pope-francis-leads-global-fasting/2

Logicboy03: See this joker. So mankind is now omniscient? You put your whole trust in scientists to know all liquids? The irony of a catholic science hater!!! Take for instance, local goat meat peppersoup from Delta....depending on the degree of mixture of the ingredients, the soup becomes a laxative. Only people from my mother's village know it. Should the village die out, the knowledge of that liquid dies.

Who told you that scientists have studied all degrees of mixtures of liquids? If you read harry potter or you cooked, you would know that the difference between poison and soup can be the amount of a particular ingredient put


Your argument is flawed. If there is something we dont know, it is a miracle? What nonsense!!!!

How is the shroud a miracle?
-we know that it is not Jesus on the shroud
-we know that people in that era already had some printing techniques

It is you Atheists that try to make us believe that mankind is omniscient. But if mankind isnt omniscient, then men like you cannot say categorically that God and his miracles dont exist.

Period!

@logicboy, I answered your question in the last part of my previous post.

There are countless miracles every minute.

No miracle claimed by the Church has been debunked.

You hold yourself more logical than religious people. But you are unable to show these through these laws and principles of logic. Its not strawman.

Everybody claims they are logical and their adversary illogical based on the laws and principles of logic. Who is to arbitrate?

Hettymoore: I understand,he supports his pope.
And is okay with homosexuals so long as they don't act on it. So long as you are not true to ursef,so long as you don't have sex with your partner.
Or is there more?

Same way we have nothing against a "thief,""murderer,""murderer" so long as they dont act on their sinful inclinations.

plaetton: By the s the same token, there have countless Jews, Muslims, Buddhist,Hindus, atheists, etc, who have also made the world a better place by their lives.
My point being that religion or sect does nor make anyone a better human being than they would have been, if example, they had belonged to a different religion or sect.
A good catholic is first a good person, good muslim is first a good person, and vise versa for a bad catholic or a bad Muslim.

We have countless examples of people who claim that conversion from being Atheist or irreligious to Catholicism made them better human beings. And they give concrete reasons for saying so. I have never heard of An Atheist or irreligious that says that leaving Catholicism made him better...with concrete reasons.

Kay 17: In spite of what "some" scientists say, the reality is glaring. So far we have accepted our existence, and that of logic/mathematics.

They would also say the reality is glaring that we, math and logic dont really exist.

Kay 17: Now to the validity of our senses. By accepting truths as independent from us, we impliedly accept an objective world, which we are part of. Our senses access raw naked data, but our perception interprets these data in form of an inductive experience.

And how we get to use our perceptions correctly creates Science.

?

Sometimes our senses access raw naked data of God. E.g seeing and hearing him or things or people related to him. Other times, our perceptions access much more than raw naked data. E.g, love. We know love exists without resorting to raw naked data.

Kay 17: But how do we know God exists?!

God can ONLY exist as a Creator, right?

God is creator but he is also Father, Lover, Friend, etc.

We know him because we have seen him and his works. We have heard him and his works. We have felt him and his works. We have heard what our ancestors in the faith taught and have found God to be just like that.

E.g: They told us that God can suspend the laws of nature and we have found it to be true.

How do you explain the incorruptibles and the miraculous cures at Lourdes that are examined by scientists of all creeds and certified to be beyond nature?

Logicboy03: This guy is not serious.

That has never been the explanation of human evolution and its evidence. Thre is fossil evidence and dna evidence to prove evolution- not just because it is in a science journal.


Your question has been duly answered, now answer mine

There are miraculous proofs of God, not just because the Bible says so.

You are unable to show me how these laws/principles prove you more logical than anyone else.

My answer to your question. I neither believe nor disbelieve the toothfairy. I simply dont care about it.

Kay 17: @italo

Continuation;

Now we are faced with identifying what's true beliefs from false one, it becomes obvious there are self evident truths like your existence, laws of thought/logic, mathematical truths.

Agree?

You could say so...even though some scientists would tell you that you dont really exist so there is really no math or logic.

Some scientists say...

Seun: Please note that religious arguments are offtopic on this thread and therefore will not be tolerated. Thanks for your cooperation.

As the mods no come answer our questions, complaints and comments nko...

I still dey ask Humbledbygrace:

Will she ban Atheists that call Christians "fools,""retards,""low IQ" etc and anti-catholics that call Catholics "demonic,""satanic" etc the way she banned me for mentioning satan?

babestell: It would have been nice if the topic carried the reason. Well am gonna do my part. I hope you all will join in too.

For peace in Syria.

Kay 17: I will let you know what deteremines reality/truth, you have to follow me keenly.

1. We can't make sense out of contradictions within a context, we can't accept a yes is the same as a no within the same context.

2. By following the above, all beliefs cannot be true, because contradictory beliefs are necessarily false.

3. Hence we must accept the reality of truths.

Any objections?

No.

Mr Troll: Imagine who as talking to. Mcheew!

You are too foolish italo. How do you know the picture is fake? How did you determine that I was a woman who provided a mans picture? Do you think you can just wish evidence into reality like your god?
I'm done with you man.

So if a lie is not proved to be a lie, it becomes true?

Logicboy03: The same way Nigerian villagers know certain herbal remedies for certain sciknesses that modern science has not kept up with.

The burial process could have some special liquid or substance that could have left imprints. There are many scientific hypothesis to this mystery. However it is not a miracle just a fascinating discovery

I like the words you use. "Could," "hypothesis," "mystery." If you dont know how the image came about, how can you say categorically that it is not a miracle?

What liquid could have been used in the burial process that mankind has never heard of and cannot detect in 2013?

What about the Tilma?

Mr Troll: what!!!
I actually agree with you.

2 miracles in a day!

Jah Jehovah Emmanuel. Holy!

Hahaha.

Very funny.

Kalvan: The amount of books i read in a week, i doubt you will surpass in your Lifetime. Believe whatever keeps your esteem from caving in like Thompson's Atomic Model.

Good day to you too.

Oga wey know pass everybody.

Wisdom cometh not from volume of books read.

Logicboy03: After years of discussion, the Holy See permitted radiocarbon dating on portions of a swatch taken from a corner of the shroud. Independent tests in 1988 at the University of Oxford, the University of Arizona, and the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology concluded with 95% confidence that the shroud material dated to 1260–1390 AD.[1] This 13th to 14th century

Too many irregularities with the conditions. And historical evidence proves otherwise. And scientists cant tell us how the image was made.

How could medieval men have made an image and today's sophisticated technology cant tell if it was paint or otherwise.

And what about the tilma?

striktlymi: Um..I don't quite agree with the bold...

The question I ask myself here is: can one who worship satan make heaven? The answer I keep coming up with is a resounding No!!!

One makes heaven by doing what God wants...
What God wants is completely at odds with what satan wants...
Some Atheists will make heaven given the right conditions...
If some Atheists can make heaven then they do not serve satan.

Well. I, as a Catholic believe that Atheists can make heaven.

Do not forget that even we Christians serve satan to a certain degree everytime we reject God e.g by sinning.

Do not forget the words of our Lord to St Peter: "GET THEE BEHIND ME, SATAN." Yet Peter is in heaven.

Judas was also a follower of Christ. He performed miracles in Jesus name. Yet the Bible tells us that "SATAN ENTERED HIM:...and he delivered Jesus to his enemies.

Did Peter and Judas worship satan? I think not.

Did they serve satan? To an extent and at a certain time, I think yes.

Coming to Atheists. I think there are satanists who masquerade as Atheists (just as there are Atheists who masquerade as Christians, like logicboy in real life). The rest, I believe, serve satan unknowingly.

striktlymi: Hmmm...

I have a hunch that your ban is not unrelated with your stance on Catholicism.

There is no doubt in my mind that I was banned for being a Catholic apologist.

It is okay for protestants to constantly call us "demonic" and "satanic" and for Atheists to call us "retards" and "fools" but the moment I mention "satan," I get banned.

And your post was hidden because you "were helping someone." But Alfa seltzer's post where he was answering for Humbledbygrace was not hidden.

Logicboy03: Wrong again

Logicboy03: Falsehoods again

Logicboy03: Not only is it insulting to a group of people called atheists, this is also false.

Wrong again.

manmustwac: How can you make such a statement when you don't even know me? As far as am concerned Satan is just on the other side of the coin of Jesus, so if i don't believe in one how can i believe in the other? Am a very nice person in the real world. If i was serving Satan or shall i say serving Satan while i was a mod here. Why do you think there was such an uproar by christians deists atheists etc about me a supposedly Satanist being removed? You just proved logicboy's above quote in black a 100% right.

I didnt say you were a satanist. I said Atheists are serving satan knowingly or unknowingly.

You can serve satan without being a satanist, I believe.

In fact, satan is very comfortable with that.

Logicboy03: The shroud of turin is dated to the medievel times after the death of Jesus. There is nothing miraculous about it.

What is the miracle? An 11th century man's image appeared on a piece of cloth? We all know that there is now way that is Jesus on there

Lol... No, it is not dated to the 11th century.

How did the image appear there?

By paint?

The most sophisticated and up to date scientists of the 21st century cannot tell us.

What about the Tilma?

Kalvan: This is truly shameful. Why are you wasting your time arguing with these People of Low-intellectual capabilities? Look at what the "new" religion Section has turned you to. SMH

This is also insulting to Christians and false.