₦airaland Forum

@Joagbaje, what do you mean by BORN AGAIN in dis quote:

"If a born again man leaves the earth , he goes to heaven immediately"

Kindly clarify.

Here's the OP again, it's clear you skipped it:

Just want 2 know if there r pentecostal churches especially in Nigeria who do not conform to the teachings of the word of faith movement.Can mainstream pentecostalism really detach itself from this movement.

@Frosbel, hmm, So it's not Mary we worship any longer, it's d sun now,

Anyway let me tell you what idolatry is cos you clearly don't know: it is letting ANYTHING take the place of God in our lives. It has little to do with physically bowing down. If money is more important than God in ur life, then money is your idol; if its a statue, then dats ur idol, and if u enjoy condemning other ppl's beliefs and winning arguments, then that's your own form of idolatry.

Bear in mind that even demons know the one true God, But they don't love him.

OP: do u thnk a black man wud ever be a Catholic Pope?

Responses: supreme flying dragon, north korea, x & y chromosomes, bantu, sacred fire, zeus etc.

This way, they'll never make a 'C' in any exam.

@Aletheia, I agree with Chukwudi44, I think you should find out what the Church teaches about Papal infallibility, then come back and admit your gross lack of information or distortion of information about the Catholic Church.

A sane adult who doesn't know something shouldn't argue about it. He should rather ask and listen.

@Frosbel, when you started this thread, you said all we needed to be saved was to have faith in Jesus as saviour. Why then are you bothered about the bad things you say the Catholic Church has done. We believe in Jesus so we have eternal life, right. Why are you concerned about our 'works'.

And you're in no position to tell the next man who he truly believes in since it is God that sees the heart.

How can you see his heart to know who he worships? Are you God?

@Aletheia, I agree with Chukwudi44, I think you should find out what the Church teaches about Papal infallibility, then come back and admit your gross lack of information or distortion of information about the Catholic Church.

A sane adult who doesn't know something shouldn't argue about it. He should rather ask and listen.

@Frosbel, when you started this thread, you said all we needed to be saved was to have faith in Jesus as saviour. Why then are you bothered about the bad things you say the Catholic Church has done. We believe in Jesus so we have eternal life, right. Why are you concerned about our 'works'.

And you're in no position to tell the next man who he truly believes in since it is God that sees the heart.

Just to correct some erroneous views:

1. Catholics, generally, do not 'hate' protestants. At least, we are not taught to hate. The opposite, in fact is what we're taught - LOVE!

2. It's not Sweetnectar you'll have to contend with for hating the 'Queen of Heaven". It's the King of Heaven that'll 'do his worst'.

3. Catholics wrote the entire New Testament and compiled the Bible, And it was written for Catholics. And a stranger doesn't explain to a child what the mother is saying to him, so you don't tell us what's in the Bible, we gave it to you. It might sound arrogant but that's the truth!

From what you have said, it's d non-catholics that are in confusion, often changing their stances (as you did on the other thread) on important doctrinal issues and lacking unity and coherence amongst themselves. If Martin Luther were right about the Catholic Church n he set about doing things d right way, y r der more dan 33000 protestant denominations all teaching different things.

Well, I tell u my brother, there's only one doctrine and it never changes.

We remain the same, even after 2000yrs n' the power of hades connot prevail against us'.

I'm sori about that, but you don't know what you're up against. Even the might of Rome could not prevail against it, much less Frosbel.

Well @ least you have clearly changed your stance on the necessity of works for salvation.

In ur OP you implied that works were not necessary, you even said that "good works are a sure way to hell" - and I still can't believe a so-called christian would say that.

Now, everyone knows who was in error between you and the Catholic Church.

@5solas

I wasn't trying to distinguish d roles of faith n works. I was trying to prove that they are both necessary for salvation.

I'm sure those verse are clear enough to back that up, Or do I need to translate it to another language?

@Frosbel it's okay to call the Catholic Church evil names, it's been happening for more than 2000yrs so we r used to it. Jesus was called a blasphemer too, they said he was casting out demons by d power of devil and so much more,

But try to read the topic of discussion before you post. If you want to bash the Catholic Church, you're very free to open another thread, Thank you!

The Catholic Church teaches that All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. This final purification is called purgatory.

And if you think this is unscriptural;

1Cor 3 reads:
10
According to the grace of God given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But each one must be careful how he builds upon it,
11
for no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ.
12
If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw,
13
the work of each will come to light, for the Day* will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire [itself] will test the quality of each one’s work.f
14
If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage.
15
But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved,* but only as through fire.
16
Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?g
17
If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for the temple of God, which you are, is holy.

Notice that there are 3 groups: those in verse 14 who'll 'receive a wage' because their 'work stands' (heaven); those in verse 17 that'll be 'destroyed' because they rather 'destroyed' God's temple (hell) & those in verse 15 who'll be saved 'only as through fire' because though they did work, their work was 'burnt up', (PURGATORY)

Thank you!

@frosbel, Why do you think it is up to you to define 'a true christian'? Who gave you the authority to determine what a christian should and should not do?

@chukwudi44, @ least for the benefit of others, even if he won't see reason.

1stly d Catholic Church does not and has never taught salvation by works. In fact it teaches salvation by grace, but faith and works as the human response to God's grace are necessary for salvation. We can do nothing without God's grace.

Now I've read all the verses you posted and Amen!, We Catholics believe all of it, its what we are taught. All d verses show that we are saved by faith, But you hav still not given us a verse that teaches that we are saved by faith ALONE. And the reason you havn't given me one such verse is that it isn't in the Bible.

However, I hav verses from d Bible that back up the Catholic Church's teaching of salvation by FAITH & WORKS.

James 2:14 asks: "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?"

James 2:17 answers: "So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead."

I don't know if you've come across this verse b4 and u purposely ignored it just so u can discredit d Catholic Church or like so many other non-catholics or 'former Catholics' like you call urself u hav been bombarded by lies, half-truths and 'untruths' about the Catholic Church by anti-catholics who definitely would high-light verses like these to you, But whatever be the case I hope you can see that this Catholic teaching is perfectly in line with scripture.

And even though you don't see, At least there are many others who might otherwise have been deceived by you, They can see now!

Thank you.

Well I'm a christian and a truth-seeker.

Well, the Catholic Church teaches that God does not always remit the whole punishment due to sin together with the guilt. God requires satisfaction, and will punish sin.

When you confess, the guilt of sin is taken away, but you still have to pay for the sin; by prayer, penance, acts of charity etc. Any punishment due to sin not fully undergone in this life (though the sinner is forgiven) will be undergone in the life to come (purgatory).

This goes especially to Nodogma, Justhappy & Thehomer, it just might answer some of your concerns, And to everyone in General.

The Bible is actually not a book but a library of many books. And there were so many other books that were written just like the ones in the Bible but are not in the Bible. How are we sure there wasn't, for example, omission of worthy books and inclusion of unworthy books, or even texts. Because if there's any adulteration, we can't really call it the 'word of God', the 'pillar and foundation of truth', can we?

You are trying to use the Bible to prove that transubstantiation is a hoax. My question now is, how do we know that the Bible is entirely true and is the word of God? Because if it's not, then you can't tender it as an evidence that transubstantiation is a hoax. I'll appreciate a short and direct answer, thanks.

Excuse me, how do you know God's house when there are more than 33,000 christian groups and they all preach different things. Pls try to make your answer short and straight to the point. I find it difficult discussing many issues at the same time.

First of all, how do we know that the Bible is the word of God which we should consider the source of all truth?

But you people amaze me o. A mad man is ranting and you are replying.

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed are thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

, and he still cant throw more light even after a whole month.

Men have chosen to accept the teachings of the Catholic Church when it pleases them and reject it when it displeases them. But truth is truth.

A cult is a religious system or sect, and says a sect is a religious group with a common faith so the Catholic is the most cult or sect. More influential than all the other cults put together, including your own cults.

Really!

@ Aletheia,

You are talking to 'ROCKS' which neither listen nor understand. I fell victim too and it took me a while to realise.

I have always read my Bible. And I have always known why.

There are many so-called "christians" in our midst who don't believe they should suffer. They only listen to people who tell them about prosperity and they go to where they feel they can get "miracles" for every affliction. They claim every (seemingly)good thing and for every (seemingly)bad thing, they say "it's not my portion". Well, some don't even say the 'Our Father' so how will they come across the part that says "thy will be done"?

Since I first saw this question on the 7th of August, I've been thinking if wether there can be a more stupid question. None comes to mind.