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The trinity is not a biblical belief, major western encyclopedias and doctrines, written in the Christian West ,by mainly Western Christians ,admit to these facts;

The New Chatolic Encyclopedia:Trinity , the doctrine is not explicitly taught in the New Testiment.

Encyclopedia International :The doctrine of the trinity did not form part of the Apostles preaching as this is reported in the New Testtiment.

Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics:In the New testiment we do not find the doctrine of trinity in anything like its developed form,not even in the Pauline and Johnnine theology.

New Bible Dictionary: The word is not found in the Bible and,though used by Tertullian in the last decade of the 2nd Century,it did not find a place formally in the theology of the Church till 4th century.

You achieve nothing by saying that the trinity is not a biblical belief. Even the Bible itself is not Biblical ('Bible' is not mentioned in the Bible).

The Catholic Church compiled the Bible(which, according to the Quran, Mohammed should refer to), taught us about Jesus and the Trinity. So why do you pick the Bible, Jesus and say that 'The Trinity' is a Catholic fabrication?

@ nopuqeater

Correct me if I'm wrong. The Quran says, "And if thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the book from before thee, " (Surah 10, Yunus, verse 94).


Is this "book" not the Bible which was fully compiled more than a century before Muhammad was born?
Doesn't this mean that Muslims are supposed to believe in the Bible?
Is 'Phillipians' not part of this book?

You have now resorted to discrediting St. Paul because the truth is hard for you to take.

Okay, these below, are the words of Jesus, if you don't believe in Paul;

1 "Do not let your hearts be troubled. You have faith in God; have faith also in me.
2 In my Father's house there are many dwelling places. If there were not, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back again and take you to myself, so that where I am you also may be.
4 Where (I) am going you know the way."
5 Thomas said to him, "Master, we do not know where you are going; how can we know the way?"
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
7 If you know me, then you will also know my Father. From now on you do know him and have seen him."
8 Philip said to him, "Master, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us."
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who dwells in me is doing his works.

After reading these verses, I ask you again, who is Jesus?

, And why have you guys deliberately ignored this post by 'I care'. Why see truth and ignore it?

Phillipians 2:10 At the name of Jesus every knee should bow of things in heaven and in earth and things under the earth.

Could the Bible have been talking about a mere mortal here?

Now I ask all of you, who do you say Jesus is?

it seems i want to contribute on the issue of Jesus is God or not. for my own observation from the bible Jesus is not God but remain the part of God , something in the bible that it's above our human imagination okay , do you know why they call him God is b,cos he represent God in the flesh is the same thing when Mr president could not attend a meeting but send his vice president and if the news caster want to make a comment they will say Mr president was the in the meeting due he was given the right to his vice or any representative of his command or when a king send one of his slave or cabinet with a staff of authority people will recognize the staff as a king when ever the staff is on a message . likewise Jesus in the bible stand as staff of authority of God that it's why they call him God and king
Quote

your christian brother opinion how do you respond to this.

I catch you here, you pass there; I catch you there, you pass here.

You asked me for proof, I have given you, but your arrogance wont let you admit the truth. One after the other. Am I correct or wrong? , after that we can move to jcross.

@ Chakula,

Don't says every christians agreed with jesus as a god some were not believed with him as a god and the bible made it clear that at times of weakness angels strengthened Jesus;however, God does not need to be strengthened.

I believe I have already answered that pending when you have something new to say.

Luke 22:43 “An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him
[in the garden of Gethsemane].”

There is no need for this quote, it doesn't contradict my belief.

Men need to be strengthened; God does not because God is All-Powerful.If Jesus had to be strengthened, he must not be God.However,i would like to have your evidence for the above qoute.

John 20:28: Thomas answered and said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Jesus, on whom be peace, believed in this, for he also stressed it in Luke 4:8. And Jesus too fell on his face and worshipped God (see Matthew 26:39). Jesus worshipped God (see Hebrews 5:7). Jesus will remain forever subservient to God (see 1 Corinthians 15:28).The evidance provided here were qouted from the bible,however, let someone proof me with the above verses wrong.

Jesus is Son of God, he is the suffering servant, but he is also God. Every christian knows this. Now, from your post above, you haven't told us anything we don't know. Why should we prove you wrong on something we believe? Say something we don't know, or believe!

Who exactly are you blaming? Haitians or the Pope.

DOES THE BELOW VERSES MEAN JESUS HAD DECLARED THE TWELVE DISCIPLES TO BE "CO-EQUAL" IN STATUS, LIKE HIM OR LIKE HIS  FATHER.
"And the glory which Thou hast given me, I have given to them (disciples); that they may be one, just as we are one."  
  (John 17:22).  

Jesus also said: "Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one, as we are one".
   (John 17:11).

Of course not. Jesus didn't say in these passages; ', that they may be one with us(Father and Son)' or ', that we all(Father, Son, Apostles) may be one. He meant, 'that the apostles - and in extension, those who believe the apostles - may be one, as he(Jesus) and The Father are one'. And this is beautifully expantiated on in one of the verses I quoted earlier:

"There is one body and one Spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all." Ephesians 4:4-6

, And that is what Jesus wanted for his flock. That we should have one faith, one hope, one baptism; that we be one body and submit to one Lord, one God.

Now, coming to the second part of your study;

SECONDLY IF JESUS WAS GOD WHY DID HE MODIFIED HIS STATEMENT TO CLEARIFY ISSUE WHEN THE JEWS PICK UP STONE TO KILL HIM.
HE SPECIFICALLY SAID THE FOLLOWING
A) HE WAS  "SANCTIFIED" BY GOD.  
          (THIS ACT CANNOT BE PERFORMED UNLESS THERE ARE "TWO DISTINCTLY INDEPENDENT ENTITIES OR PARTIES". ONE PARTY WAS DOING THE ACT OF "SANCTIFYING" WHILE ANOTHER WAS BEING "SANCTIFIED".
B) HE WAS "SENT " BY GOD.  
         (THIS TEXT PROVES; ONE ENTITY WAS "THE SENDER", WHILE THE OTHER WAS "THE SENT".
C) HE WAS "SON" OF GOD.
FROM THESE U WILL SEE THAT HE IS SIMPLY SAYING I AM A CHILD OF GOD.PLEASE READ PSALM 82:6 AND 7, FOR THE DETAILS

First of all, I want to say that christians know that Jesus was "sanctified by God", "sent by God" and is the "Son of God"; but we also know that Jesus is God. So this part of your post isn't rily contrary to what christians know. The only part that contrasts what christians know is this:  

(THIS ACT CANNOT BE PERFORMED UNLESS THERE ARE "TWO DISTINCTLY INDEPENDENT ENTITIES OR PARTIES". ONE PARTY WAS DOING THE ACT OF "SANCTIFYING" WHILE ANOTHER WAS BEING "SANCTIFIED".

I refute it because there are so many parts of the Bible that say that Jesus is the son of God and there are so many parts of the Bible that say that Jesus is God but there is no part of the Bible that says Jesus is not God. So you cannot say that Jesus is not God by showing me the parts that say he is the Son of God just like you cannot prove that a man is not a banker because you have proof that he is a musician. He could be both. And Jesus is both Son of God and God himself. And that is a mystery of faith that can only be understood by those who believe, not necessarily by the wisest scholars(now, remember I warned you that you cannot understand the Bible without faith). Even Jesus shows this in Matt. 11: 25, 'At that time Jesus said in reply, "I give praise to you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for although you have hidden these things from the wise and the learned you have revealed them to the childlike"'.

Pls allow me to expantiate, not only on that little part, but on the whole of John 10.

1 'In all truth I tell you, anyone who does not enter the sheepfold through the gate, but climbs in some other way, is a thief and a bandit.  
2 He who enters through the gate is the shepherd of the flock;  
3 the gatekeeper lets him in, the sheep hear his voice, one by one he calls his own sheep and leads them out.  
4 When he has brought out all those that are his, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow because they know his voice.  
5 They will never follow a stranger, but will run away from him because they do not recognise the voice of strangers.'

Here we see as Jesus begins to describe the Shepherd to the Jews. Take note that the Jews of that time knew the scriptures off hand so they knew the significance of the word 'shepherd'. They knew God as their Shepherd. Psalm 23: 1-4 says "Yahweh is my shepherd, I lack nothing. In grassy meadows he lets me lie. By tranquil streams he leads me to restore my spirit. He guides me in paths of saving justice as befits his name. Even were I to walk in a ravine as dark as death I should fear no danger, for you are at my side. Your staff and your crook are there to soothe me. Psalm 80:1 says "Shepherd of Israel, listen, you who lead Joseph like a flock, enthroned on the winged creatures, shine forth.

6 Jesus told them this parable but they failed to understand what he was saying to them.  
7 So Jesus spoke to them again: In all truth I tell you, I am the gate of the sheepfold.  
8 All who have come before me are thieves and bandits, but the sheep took no notice of them.  
9 I am the gate. Anyone who enters through me will be safe: such a one will go in and out and will find pasture.  
10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I have come so that they may have life and have it to the full.

Now, since the Jews didn't understand what the parable meant, Jesus proclaims himself clearly as the Gate through which the shepherd gets to the sheep. Surely now, they must have begun to get his message.

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd lays down his life for his sheep.  
12 The hired man, since he is not the shepherd and the sheep do not belong to him, abandons the sheep as soon as he sees a wolf coming, and runs away, and then the wolf attacks and scatters the sheep;  
13 he runs away because he is only a hired man and has no concern for the sheep.  
14 I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me,  
15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep.  
16 And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and I must lead these too. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, one shepherd.  
17 The Father loves me, because I lay down my life in order to take it up again.  
18 No one takes it from me; I lay it down of my own free will, and as I have power to lay it down, so I have power to take it up again; and this is the command I have received from my Father.  
19 These words caused a fresh division among the Jews.  
20 Many said, 'He is possessed, he is raving; why do you listen to him?'  
21 Others said, 'These are not the words of a man possessed by a devil: could a devil open the eyes of the blind?'

But he didn't stop there, in addition to being the Gate, he calls himself the Good Shepherd. He is both. Just like He's both the Son of God and God himself; He's the Gate and the Shepherd. These words made some of the Jews uncomfortable so they dismissed him as possesed or crazy while others started to believe that ther just might be something special about this 'man'.

22 It was the time of the feast of Dedication in Jerusalem. It was winter,  
23 and Jesus was in the Temple walking up and down in the Portico of Solomon.  
24 The Jews gathered round him and said, 'How much longer are you going to keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us openly.'  
25 Jesus replied: I have told you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father's name are my witness;  
26 but you do not believe, because you are no sheep of mine.  
27 The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.  
28 I give them eternal life; they will never be lost and no one will ever steal them from my hand.  
29 The Father, for what he has given me, is greater than anyone, and no one can steal anything from the Father's hand.  
30 The Father and I are one.
31 The Jews fetched stones to stone him,

Still perplexed about Jesus - like many are today, they asked again,"are you the Christ(anointed one)?" Jesus then tells them plainly how none of his sheep couldn't be stolen from him - none could be stolen from the Father. 'He and the Father are one' - He says. Surely now they had had enough of the 'rubbish'.
 

32 so Jesus said to them, 'I have shown you many good works from my Father; for which of these are you stoning me?'  
33 The Jews answered him, 'We are stoning you, not for doing a good work, but for blasphemy; though you are only a man, you claim to be God.'  
34 Jesus answered: Is it not written in your Law: I said, you are gods?  
35 So it uses the word 'gods' of those people to whom the word of God was addressed -- and scripture cannot be set aside.  
36 Yet to someone whom the Father has consecrated and sent into the world you say, 'You are blaspheming' because I said, 'I am Son of God.'  
37 If I am not doing my Father's work, there is no need to believe me;  
38 but if I am doing it, then even if you refuse to believe in me, at least believe in the work I do; then you will know for certain that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.  
39 They again wanted to arrest him then, but he eluded their clutches.  
40 He went back again to the far side of the Jordan to the district where John had been baptising at first and he stayed there.  
41 Many people who came to him said, 'John gave no signs, but all he said about this man was true';  
42 and many of them believed in him.

Yes, he told them he was consecrated and sent by God as 'Son of God' but this was in no way meant to modify his statement because he goes on to say 'He and the Father were in each other', angering the Jews again and they tried to arrest him. Besides, note that the Jews didn't take lightly to anyone claiming equality with God or even comparing himself to God in any way - and Jesus knew that as a Jew himself. So saying he was God was as bad an offence as saying he was Son of God. As a Jew, if he really wanted to exonerate himself, he would have denied any claim of divinity but to say that he was the Son of God was just rubbing salt on the injury. The Jews believed - even to this day - that God cannot have a son.

I'm sorry Pimpu for keeping you waiting for long. I had one hell of a week.

SAYING MY POST IS TOO LONG IS NOT AN EXCUSE I EXPECTED FROM U PROVIDED MY POINT ARE FACTUAL,BUT SAYING I RAISED SO MANY POINT SOUND SENSIBLE,BRO I NEVER SAID ANSWER EVERY TIN AT D SAME TIME.INFACT IT WILL MAKE MORE SENCE IF WE TAKE IT ONE AFTER THE OTHER.
AM NOT GOING TO COMMENT ON OTHER TINS U SAID JUST TO KEEP US FOCUS ON THE POINT AT HAND.SO CHALANGE THE FIRST POINT AM ALL URS,

OK, since you insist I'll just go straight to your first point. I'll show you how the Greek word 'hen', when used in the Bible doesn't necessarily mean "unity in purpose" like you said but sometimes means 'single' or 'single being'. Pls read these Bible verses below.

"since indeed God is one [hen]" Romans 3:30
"there is no God but one [hen]" 1 Corinthians 8:4
"yet for us there is but one [hen] God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one [hen] Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him." 1 Corinthians 8:6
"Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one [hen]." Galatians 3:20
"There is one [hen] body and one [hen] Spirit, one [hen] hope, one [hen] Lord, one [hen] faith, one [hen] baptism, one [hen] God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all." Ephesians 4:4-6
"For there is one [hen] God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," 1 Timothy 2:5
"You believe that God is one [hen]. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19

So since the rest of your argument on "study no. 1" is based on the your perception that 'hen' (as used in the Bible) exclusively means unity of purpose and I have proved otherwise, can we - without wasting time - nullify all these:

Study No. 1
In Greek, the language of the John's Gospel, the word 'heis' (masc.) means; 'Numerical one' and 'hen' (neut.); means
'Unity - in purpose'. In this verse apostle John has used 'hen' (Strong's #1520). Hence, the apostle was speaking of the "Unity in purpose". Those who may not be familiar with the Greek language or cannot have the access to the world famous concordance by James Strong may please look up the marginal notes in New American Standard Bible (NASB), to find out the specific meaning of this word with reference to this verse.

The next obvious question could be; What was that "Unity in purpose"? It was of conveying the Divine Message to mankind. Jesus passed on that Message and his Mission to his disciples. After having done that Jesus declared:
"And the glory which Thou hast given me, I have given to them (disciples); that they may be one, just as we are one."
(John 17:22).

Jesus also said: "Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one, as we are one."
(John 17:11).

In both the above verses the Greek word used by the apostle is 'hen' (Strong's # 1520). No upright and God fearing individual would go to the length of admitting that Jesus had declared the Twelve Disciples to be "co-equal" in status, like him or like his Father.

A question often raised is; If Jesus had not declared himself being "God", why did the Jews pick up the stones and were ready to kill him, upon hearing these words? The reply appears in the text that follows and there also appears a noteworthy conversation between Jesus Christ and Jews. Jesus did acknowledge before this angry crowd (see verse 36), that:

a) He was "sanctified" by God.
(This act cannot be performed unless there are "two distinctly independent entities or parties". One party was doing the act of "sanctifying" while another was being "sanctified".

b) He was "sent " by God.
(This text proves; One entity was "the sender", while the other was "the sent".

c) He was "son" of God.
(This text proves; Jesus who had earlier quoted a verse from the Psalm to his contenders, was only asserting to be "the children of the Most High". Please read Psalm 82:6 and 7, for the details).

To say otherwise would simply indicate; Jesus who was "God Himself", upon seeing the stones being pickedwas petrified. He either mutated or modified his earlier Declaration of being "God" and involuntarily acknowledged that he was merely;
"a child of God, sent by God and sanctified by God".

Study Supportive Passage:
Jesus said: "I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I." (Jn. 14:28). This verse unequivocally refutes the assertion that Jesus was "co-equal" in status, with his Father.

Note:
Anyone who thinks that the word "greater" does not necessarily mean being greater in authority or higher in status, may please read John 13:16 along with 17:3.
WAITING,

Thank you very much. On to the next one, right?

Pimpu, your post is very long and you raised so many points that I cannot answer to all of them at the same time. It's like accusing a man of lying and as he's trying to defend himself you say again that he stole. Generally people who do this are only trying to evade the truth but I won't judge you since I don't know you very well. However, I think the best way I can summarize my answer for you is to say: the Bible was written by men of "extraordinary faith" and addressed to people who were expected to have "extraordinary faith". It's very little use reading the Bible with a purely scholarly disposition because that wasn't even the mindset of those who wrote it and if you read it with such mindset, it's little use, still, trying to make someone with "extraordinary faith" to understand it the way you do.

The reason I am even writing this at all is so that you'll know the reason some people might not be replying your post and not go on thinking that no one has an answer for you. But if after this you still want us to argue about the issues you have raised, then we can start, but not from the "list of verses studied" but from your little write-up before that.

Before I go, don't be so quick to make up your mind about things. The fact that I said "how can we reply such a long post, do you think we are all jobless?" doesn't mean I don't have time for God and you know that too well. YOUR POST IS NOT GOD!

May God be with you.

how can we reply such a long post, do you think we are all jobless?

The topic should be, 'why do Yorubas promote babalawos?'

Is it a Catholic or Pentecostal Church? **Laughing**

Ave Maria!

I don't have to believe what you've written down in order to believe the Bible. The fact is, you've not been taught well. Sitting and listening to your Pastor preach every sunday and tuesday does not qualify you to be bible scholar. You have to be taught in theology and attend unbias Bible school to prove yourself.

Most things taught in Theology and Bible School are hidden to the ordinary church goer just like you. There are controversies surrounding the birth, death, resurrection and personality of Jesus, let alone him being called GOD! The fact is most people that comes from the eastern part of the Nigeria(catholicism, Methodism) believes that Jesus is God. Why won't they? As long as you people keep calling Mary 'Holy' mother of God justify your assertiveness.

You claim that Jesus is God, as well as the son of God. Why are you then leaving out the holy spirit?

In true protestant fashion, you are trying to distract I and other people participating in this discussion either by posting or reading. I am talking about Jesus and Mary and because you know I speak the truth you are jumping to the Holy Spirit.

John, Mathew, Mark, Luke all present Jesus to the world according to their own personal conviction. One said he's human, one said he's a spirit, and the others were convinced he's the messiah sent by GOD.

You are being hypocritical. Didn't John say "the word was God"? Didn't Thomas say "my Lord and my God"? Didn't Elizabeth call Mary "the mother of my Lord"? Didn't Isaiah say, "the mighty God, the everlasting Father"? Why have you chosen to sweep these under the carpet.

Now the word begotten, this same word has brought controversy both to the Christian faith and people of other faith. I would not have you ignorant, let me explain,
To beget means to sire, to cause to exist, to father, to procreate etc. God begat (cause Jesus to exist) Jesus using Mary as the channel. HE wanted something undiluted to bring HIS plans forth. HE could have chosen any virgin available as at that time (Unmarried singles were virgins during the days of Jesus), but no, Jesus has been foretold to come through the lineage of David, his step father (else the fulfillment of scripture).

If Mary had been in sin, wouldn't she have been 'diluted'?(in reference to your choice of word - "undiluted" What if, for instance, she had been a thief but had remained a virgin, would God have allowed his son come through her? Virginity is not the only way to be pure. In fact one can be a virgin physically but be a harlot in her thoughts(remember the Bible says Man looks at outward appearance but God searches the heart). Be sure that God looked beyond her physical virginity.

So, Mary wasn't in any way holy (I don't know where you people get the idea from), "There is none holy, " [/b]I Samuel 2:2, Psalm 14:3

That verse actually contains the phrase: [b]"there is none holy as the Lord" but the hypocrite that you seem to be has omitted the last three words so that you can deceive those who don't know.

Leviticus 19:2 says: "Speak to all the congregation of the sons of Israel and say to them, 'You shall be holy, for I the LORD your God am holy.

Be Ye therefore Perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is Perfect.” (Matt 5:43-48)

If God says ", you shall be holy, ", who are you to say man cannot be holy (of course, not like God)

I want to ask you. Is Jesus Christ holy? If your answer is yes and you say - or think that there is none holy but God, it means that Jesus is God.

What 'denomination' do you belong to. I hope you are not like some others who don't have an identity.

Who? Me?

Yes!

May God have mercy on your soul. Amen.

@italo i realy would have loved to answer all your verses and show you the truth in them which you were unable to see as i have done in several threads but alas time is no more on my side so just have it in mind that jesus is the servant of God and mary the mother of d servant.acts.4.26,3.13 i am an anglican and my belief has nothing to do with my denomination.stay blessed and hopefuly when and if i have time again i will explain it all to you.

You haven't told or showed me anything new. I know that Jesus Christ is the servant of God and Mary is the mother of the servant of God. However I also know that Jesus Christ is God and Mary is the mother of God. Afterall, Elizabeth said: "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me" (Lk 1:43)

And don't say you are Anglican if you don't believe in what they believe in. What you are doing is akin to a man fighting a guerilla warfare. You might wear a uniform but you seem to have no identity; you have enemies but no permanent friends. You are trying to be evasive by claiming to belong to a "denomination" and distancing your self from it at the same time. I am a soldier of Christ and that makes me a soldier of His Holy Catholic Church. This, of course doesn't mean I expect everyone to believe in what I believe in but if you are going to face me, at least be a man and let me know who I am talking to. , not that I'm very interested anyway, I am more interested in the innocent people who might be reading these posts. I hope nobody gets deceived. I hope everyone finds the truth.

Acts.4.27
and the people of Israel against Jesus YOUR HOLY SERVANT WHO YOU MADE MESSIAH.

so who said jesus is his God[definitely not mine]

That is the mystery of the Holy Trinity. Jesus is both the son of God and God himself.

Deductions[refute them if you can; just don’t twist scriptures]
1.there is a big difference between jesus and God
2.jesus had nothing and was given all things by God but as a manager he would hand all back to the owner in the future
3.jesus is subject to and not equal to God.

John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:14 - "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us(Iguess that means God became flesh and lived on earth), and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."

John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"
Exodus 3:14 - "And God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’"

John 10:30-33 - "I and the Father are one." 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

John 20:28 - "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Phil. 2:6,7 - ", who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men".


I hope I have refuted what you said 'without twisting scripture'.

Here comes another one I like very much:

For unto us a Child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder: and his name will be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6 (written: 712 BC (Before Christ)


, And there are many more but I am sure these above should be enough to convince any right thinking person that, going by the Bible, Jesus is the Son of God and also GOD.


But if you are not a Christian, please tell me what your faith is or tell me if you have no faith so that I may know what your problem is and how to help you - if you are worth helping. Cheers.

If I were not a Catholic, and were looking for the true Church in the world today, I would look for the one Church which did not get along well with the world; in other words, I would look for the Church which the world hated. My reason for doing this would be, that if Christ is in any one of the churches of the world today, He must still be hated as He was when He was on earth in the flesh.

If you would find Christ today, then find the Church that does not get along with the world. Look for the Church that is hated by the world as Christ was hated by the world. Look for the Church that is accused of being behind the times, as our Lord was accused of being ignorant and never having learned. Look for the Church which men sneer at as socially inferior, as they sneered at Our Lord because He came from Nazareth. Look for the Church which is accused of having a devil, as Our Lord was accused of being possessed by Beelzebub, the Prince of Devils. Look for the Church which, in seasons of bigotry, men say must be destroyed in the name of God as men crucified Christ and thought they had done a service to God.

Look for the Church which the world rejects because it claims it is infallible, as Pilate rejected Christ because He called Himself the Truth. Look for the Church which is rejected by the world as Our Lord was rejected by men. Look for the Church which amid the confusions of conflicting opinions, its members love as they love Christ, and respect its Voice as the very voice of its Founder, and the suspicion will grow, that if the Church is unpopular with the spirit of the world, then it is unworldly, and if it is unworldly it is other worldly. Since it is other-worldly, it is infinitely loved and infinitely hated as was Christ Himself. But only that which is Divine can be infinitely hated and infinitely loved. Therefore the Church is Divine.

- Archbishop Fulton J Sheen, Preface to Radio Replies

Now please leave them to their foolishness. Evil eventually destroys itself. Pray for them instead.



@ lady, thanx 4 d post.

What do they think they can say now against that church dat has not been said for 2000years. What can they do against the church that can b more than what the pagan roman emperors did. THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH WILL OUTLIVE THE WORLD!!!!

I think Christians dont read their bible anymore, thanks to the Catholics.

There wouldn't have been the Bible in the first place without the catholic church. There wouldn't even have been christianity at all. You would never have even heard the name Jesus. The pagan Roman emperors were determined to wipe out christianity from the earth and a lot of Catholics shed their blood by professing their faith which in many cases led to instant execution - so that you could know the truth. All of a sudden the catholics are responsible for pentecostals believing that touching Oyedepo's jeep can bring them blessings. If the catholics are doing something, it's wrong; if the pentecostals are doing something wrong, it's the fault of the catholics. I have something for you. Jesus said the gates of hades cannot prevail against his church. That tells me that you are too 'small' to mean anything. In no time you will be nothing but decaying flesh in foul smelling liquid being eaten up by all sorts of organisms but The Holy Catholic Church will remain "until the end of the world".

Back to the Oyedepo story abeg,

I'll just say it's either they BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY or ,

I leave you to give me an answer.

Waiting,

This is for you BEE444, I Wouldn't be posting this to you if you aren't a christian so pardon me if you are not. Reason is, if you believe in the Bible, then you have to believe this.

John
Chapter 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be

through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race;

4 the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

5 A man named John was sent from God.

He came for testimony,

6 to testify to the light, so that all might believe through him.

He was not the light, but came to testify to the light.

The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.

He was in the world, and the world came to be through him, but the world did not know him.

He came to what was his own, but his own people

7 did not accept him.

But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name,

8 who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man's decision but of God.

And the Word became flesh

9 and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father's only Son, full of grace and truth.



I hope you are convinced that Jesus is God. Cheers.

GOD: Believe, and I will reveal myself to you.

MAN: Reveal yourself and I will believe in you.

drinking isnt bad but drunkeness is, just like the bible doesnt critisize eating but it does gluttony.

I have something to say to you Mazaje. Imagine that, after you die, your friends and relatives write a book on your life - Several of them writing just one book. Dont you think there will be discrepancies? Now, we christians need to understand the Bible as much as possible, but even if we dont, it is sufficient that we understand the central message; what Jesus stood for. You seem so smart so instead of critisizing Jesus, Christianity and the whole idea of spirituality as a whole, tell us why we should exist without any higher power. You just might be more successful that way.

my dear brother, the Bible is not a story book or a text book, you can not understand the Bible without the Grace of God. B4 u read d Bible, believe it, pray 2 God 2 open ur eyes. Remember the Lord, Jesus Christ said, Father, i thank you for hiding these things from the wise and revealing them to mere children. these tells u that it is not reading the Bible that makes you understand it but your mindset. your mind must be set as that of a child who believes everything the parent says. besides coming back to the part of the bible that you read,

IS ABRAHAM A MAN? of course not. think.

This is from matthew chapter 7

24 "Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock;
25 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock.
26 And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand;
27 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it."


the catholic church is the only church founded by Christ himself.

my dear fellow catholics, u should not be surprised at all the persecution. christ went through more. and he already warned us to expect same

christ is truth, if u r looking for truth beyond him, u r looking in vain and u`ll keep searching 4eva, trust mi