₦airaland Forum

The first set of people I follow is everyone who follows me.

The second set is girls I find attractive. Incase we could connect one day...but I have never even tried to connect with any of them.

ayoku777:
That is not necessarily true. An unbeliever can do good works and still be unrighteous by divine judgment. And a born again christian can sin and still be righteous by imputation.

Psalm 51v5 -Behold I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

He didn't mean his mother was an adulterer or had him outside matrimony; he meant he was in iniquity from the very moment he took shape in the womb, and that he was a sinner from conception.

That's remarkable! How can someone be a sinner ever before he was born, ever before he has had a chance to do anything -good or evil?

It is because sin is first and foremost BEING IN THE IMAGE OF THE FIRST ADAM. Any man in the image of the first Adam is a SINNER, even if he hasn't committed any sinful act.

Let me show you another scripture to buttress that truth.

Psalm 58v3 -The wicked are estranged FROM THE WOMB they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Can you see this too. To be estranged means to be foreign to, or to be at odds with.

How can someone that is still in the womb be called wicked and estranged from God? When he hasn't done anything good or evil? It is because sin is fundamentally the image of the first Adam; and anyone in that image is estranged -even before evil works follow.

So a sinner is anyone born of a woman in the image of the first Adam -even if he still does some good or righteous acts.

Now, flipping it right-side up, this same principle applies with the new creation too. A righteous person is someone who is born of God in the image of the last Adam through faith in Christ -even if he still sins.

The consequence of sin in the life of a believer is not the loss of his salvation or imputed righteousness, unless the carnality degenerates into unbelief (loss of faith in Christ).

Yes, carnality can degenerate into lukewarmness, lukewarmness into spiritual indifference, and indifference into unbelief. But until unbelief, he is still saved and righteous by imputation.

What is your point?

christemmbassey:
God bless you sir, Grace is way TOO TOO BIG for some ppl to understand. A christian has never sined and can not sin. I said this in grace convention 2013, and many religious Nlders were blown away. Stay bless MoG.

Paul said he sinned in Romans 7.

So Paul was a Muslim or an Atheist?

@BabaGnoni...watch here too o.

BabaGnoni:
Beats me why people cant stick to subject matters at hand but instead, at any slightest opportunity always resort to ad hominems
This sneaky practice is now becoming a popular weapon used on the Religion forum for shutting, to shut a person down or shut a person up.
Lets stick to the subject matter and leave out whatever anyone says outside it
No offense but please whatever he said outside the subject matter actually does not affect the soundness of his post or argument

I'm not trying to shut him up. I'm not saying what he said outside affects his argument. I'm only expressing my pity because I don't know how he can be helped. I've known him for some time and I know he doesn't see things logically.

As for the argument, maybe you can help me ask him these questions related to my earlier post:

Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?’ 23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.’

1. Were the people in the passage justified? Yes or no.
2. Did they commit sin? Yes or no.
3. Did the go to heaven? Yes or no.

@shdemidemi, please answer yes or no. No stories.
@BabaGnoni, please be a good referee.

adsonstone:
Thank God you know it is not a sin.
Moreover, that's the reason the Holy Spirit was given to us.

I see. You know the Holy Spirit more than Peter, Paul and all the early Church Fathers. Well done.

adsonstone:
Lie!
The scriptures were written long before the Church....and were not even written by Christians.

I see. You're saying either the NT is not scripture or it was written by non-Christians...and I'm the liat? Well done.

adsonstone:
I dunno if he did.
In the gospels, he did not.

Then what's your headache with Fr Mbaka and the Church?

adsonstone:
Is it a sin to confirm from the scriptures and epistles?

No. But it can lead to sin and destruction as St. Peter says in 2Peter 1:20 and 2Peter3:16.

Also, it was Church leaders that wrote and canonized the scriptures and scriptural epistles. Only they can be trusted to interpret them.

adsonstone:
It is not always a sin for someone or something to be wrong somewhere.

I'm glad you know this.

So what's the problem? Did Jesus say nothing will ever be wrong in his Church?

0rex:
May God help us all. You have raised salient points OP but I'm uncomfortable with the idea of you setting a certain percentage.

Seconded.

Kayzeemine:
The answer is Heaven. The moment a sinner confess his/her sins and forsakes them and confess the Lord Jesus as Savior then if he/she dies he will make heaven FOR AS LONG AS HE/SHE DID NOT GO BACK TO SIN BEFORE DEATH COMES. Salvation of a man's soul indeed is a gradual process. when a man get converted, there are many processes that must follow, like baptism, sanctification and soon. Nevertheless a newly converted must stay in Christ and must not go back to sin...that's the only way to heaven

You nailed it.

davien:
http://catholicapptitude.org/essential-catholic-apps/

Thanks.

adsonstone:
Christians should confirm whatever they are taught as admonished by Paul.

They should confirm from the Church leadership as Paul did in Acts 15.

adsonstone:
Jesus commanded the baptism and the Communion, which was also documented. However, believers had to believe and act on the Apostles' words.

In other words, they had to believe and act on the teachings of the Church leadership.

adsonstone:
Paul disagreed with Peter because he did something wrong....Peter was being hypocritical.
I don't see the Church/Church faithfuls disagree with something which isn't wrong.

So, something must be wrong somewhere.

Is it a sin for something to be wrong somewhere?

I wish I could help the guy above but how can you help a guy who says that Jesus' gospel is different from Paul's gospel...and that the Jesus on earth is different from the one in heaven now.

His problem is too deep.

whatagwan:
But you can also download divine mercy alert too. its a nice concept from a Nigerian.

I'll take a look at it.

adsonstone:
How did the bereans confirm what they learned in Church?

The Bereans were not in Church in Acts 17:11. They were in the Synagogue and were not Christians yet. They confirmed what Paul told them by searching the Old Testament...just like the Aeropagites came to understand Paul's message by his use of their pagan tradition. Should Christians emulate these in Church?

How did the Bereans get baptized and receive Communion? Did they see it in the OT or did they believe the authority of Paul's word?

How did Christians decide on if the gentiles had to be circumcised or not in Acts 15? Did all Christians search the Bible themselves or did they go to the leaders of the Church?

adsonstone:
Every word? No.

Same with Priests.

adsonstone:
Less than two months ago, the same Priest endorsed the same candidate who he has now declared that "the destiny of Nigeria is greater than Him."

He has made a sudden u-turn.

So? Is it a sin for a Priest to make a sudden u-turn?

Did Prophets in Bible never make u-turn?

adsonstone:
Besides, it seems the Church/Church faithfuls disagree with him.

http://leadership.ng/news/399872/catholic-
church-disagrees-father-mbaka

So? Is it an abomination for the Church or some faithful to disagree with a priest?

Did Paul not disagree with Peter?

ruffp:
I discuss with people that choose to drive points with some level of intellect.

The problem with the world isn't those that dare to say the truth...its those that have chosen to turn a blind eye to the truth.

Pls wait for the Pope's communique on the matter.....

Evil will always exist cuz good exist!

And what is the truth in this case (bearing in mind that neither of us has enquired from the Catholic Church why they didnt disagree when Fr Mbaka supported Jonathan.)

We dont even know if they disagreed but we didnt hear about it.

You have convicted them without hearing from them.

And that to you is how to use your intellect?

Nigeria is in trouble!

FortresOfChrist:
Okay sir that's deep sir. Can you explain sir both statement. If he sin, is he still a sinner?

One who believes is a believer. One who preaches is a preacher. One who doesnt believe is an unbeliever. One who sings is a singer. One who teaches is a teacher. So does it require rocket science to know that one who sins is a sinner?

FortresOfChrist:
What does he have to do again to go to heaven. Thanks sir

He has to confess his sins and reconcile with God...and continue to live a good life in Christ.

Goshen360:
Disqualified in what sense? That he was no longer justified?

Disqualified in the sense in bold below:

Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?’ 23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.’

Those people were justified, since the were strong believers who even performed miracles in Jesus' name...yet they were disqualified.

ruffp:
Pally rest for this matter. Nothing satisfies ur type...keep waiting for me to spoonfeed you. If you choose to be a daz man,fine........the rest of us are smart enough to know when tides shift. I'm done with this discussion!

I see. You only want to discuss with people that will say "because they are hypocrites," right?

That's the problem with the world. People only tolerate their own opinions and those of their supporters...even if it's wrong or ignorant.

That's why Boko Haram exist.

ruffp:
Almost thought u'd have asked me to ask the Pope!

The CSN is the right body to ask. It represents the Catholic Church in Nigeria.

It's the best way to get the answer to your question.

But I wont be surprised if you prefer ignorant assumptions.

ruffp:
www.punchng.com/news/catholic-secretariat-asks-enugu-bishop-to-caution-mbaka/

That's more like it.

Now I guess you can ask the CSN why they didn't disagree with Fr Mbaka when he supported Jonathan.

Gombs:
You sure you're not the one missing it?

If I'm missing it...St. Paul missed it.

Rom 7:19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do.

St Paul was justified before he wrote that, yet he did evil.

1Cor9:27 but I punish my body and enslave it, so that after proclaiming to others I myself should not be disqualified.

St Paul was justified yet he did more to avoid being disqualified.

Just to mention that Justification doesn't mean the justified wont sin.

He can sin.

Justification also doesn't mean the justified doesn't have to do anything else in order to go to heaven.

He does.

I see some people up there saying the opposite.

whatagwan:
just did very nice app. Complete as you said. Thanks.

You're welcome.

adsonstone:
Even if I give another good reason, you may not answer...will you?


For the seventh time, I ask again;

1. What has Rev. Fr Mbaka ever done
that you're not comfortable with?
2. What has the Holy Spirit ever done
that you're uncomfortable with?

This will be the last time I'll ask.

Even if you ask a million times, I will only answer if I find a good reason to.

adsonstone:
If it is within a message/speech/article, yes, I can...depending on the context of the whole message/speech.

The only instance I can't is if that's the only statement made.

Maybe.

I don't see a difference between your responses above and the "I don't know" I said. Even if there were, you cant say your response is more reasonable than mine.

adsonstone:
If you don't know, then how can you be sure you're learning the truth in Church?

The same way Paul confirmed his own teaching and that of the Judaizers. He went to the teaching office of the Church in Jerusalem.

The priest only has to conform to Church teaching on faith and morals. The election is outside this. I can always confirm what I hear in Church from the documented teachings of the Church.

Are you about to tell me a joke that every word ever spoken by every deeper life pastor is true?

adsonstone:
By the way, I don't. How can I?
He's not my Rev. Fr, neither is he my Pastor nor my teacher.

....but he's yours, you can always reach him.

You know he is my priest yet you're the one developing a headache on my behalf...even after I told you I am not interested in knowing more about the message because it wont serve any purpose.

Why are you more interested in my priest's message than I am?

You need to find out what is unsettling you.

adsonstone:
You posts began going in circles and that was the reason for saying you seemed inconsistent.

Anyway, if you say I seem deficient, confused or forgetful, I'm not bothered, I know I'm not.

...so, all those won't work.

My posts were going in circles in response to yours which were going in circles.

ruffp:
www.aitonline.tv/post-catholic_church_disagrees_with_father_mbaka

The Catholic Church has washed its hands off the ongoing controversy over the strong criticism of President Goodluck Jonathan by Rev Father Ejike Mbaka of Adoration Ministries in Enugu, accusing him of double-speaking.

The church said it did not authorise Mbaka to speak on its behalf, insisting that it is wrong for Mbaka to endorse the president and later warn the electorate not to vote for him during the February 14 presidential poll.

The church added that it did not have an official position on whose candidate the Catholic faithful should vote for, saying that as the largest Christian group, it is illogical for it to direct members to vote for certain candidates as the voters have the prerogative to exercise their inalienable rights in such a situation.

A catholic faithful, Mr Callistus Ebue, disclosed this during an interview with Leadership last night in Enugu.

He said, “The Catholic Church did not authorise Rev Father Mbaka to speak on its behalf. There is no way the church, with millions of its members, make a pronouncement on who to vote for during the February 14 presidential election. The church does not have an official position in this regard. The decision to vote for any candidate is the prerogative right of the church faithful just like any other Nigerian.”

While some of the Catholics in Enugu argue that Mbaka might have been led by the Holy Spirit in his pronouncement over Jonathan’s re-election bid, others said that the cleric ought not to have dabbled into the murky waters of politics.

According to a Catholic knight, Sir Abuchi Anueghiagu, Mbaka was initially inspired by the Holy Spirit to endorse the re-election of Jonathan, saying, however, that whatever Mbaka pronounced during his homily at the Adoration Ministries ground on December 31, 2014, was also a function of the leading of the Holy Spirit.

According to him, as an ordained priest in charge of a parish, Christ the King Parish, and the spiritual director of Adoration Ministries, nobody is qualified to challenge any sermon he delivers from the altar.

But another knight of the Catholic Church who spoke to reporters on condition of anonymity condemned Mbaka of speaking from both sides of his mouth.

He said that having previously blessed Jonathan on his re-election bid, he ought not to have made a volte-face. He advised priests to be cautions of their pronouncements from the altar, as whatever they say has a way of affecting their followers either negatively or positively.

The Catholic bishop of Enugu Diocese, Rev Dr Calistus Onaga, could not be reached at the time of filing this report last night.
- See more at: http://www.aitonline.tv/post-catholic_church_disagrees_with_father_mbaka#sthash.rVn8Fnmo.dpuf

Which of the Bold is the "Catholic Church" that disagreed with Fr Mbaka?

plaetton:
Rev. Mbaka is a charlatan. Of course, not surprising given that Nigerians adore charlatans . The brains are not hardwired for critical rational thinking, so charlatanism is embraced and adored by the low IQs.

Mbaka is the Catholic and Southeast version of the numerous other crooks and snake-oil salesmen that litter the southwest landscape, spreading their sweet smelling, but toxic garbage to the mentally weak plaebians.

His animist twist to Catholicism should be an embarrassment to the Catholic church and humble and low-key approach in spreading the message of Jesus by examples.

But they tolerate him because he draws in huge crowds of mindless plaebians that would have otherwise drifted into the dark and bottomless pits of Pentecostal madness and fraud.

@Italo,
For once , try to call a charlatan a charlatan.

Your frustration has been noticed.

adsonstone:
Why should you not answer?
It is a question concerning your statement.

I've told you why you should answer, you just said you don't care. Well that make zero difference neither is it an answer.

For the sixth time;
1. What has Rev. Fr Mbaka ever done
that you're not comfortable with?
2. What has the Holy Spirit ever done
that you're uncomfortable with?

What you said above makes zero difference, neither is it a good reason I should answer.

adsonstone:
Instead of going in circles,
Lemme make things easier for you.

These are excerpts from his sermon.

1."By the grace of God, by the power of the Holy Spirit, we are announcing spiritually, change!"
Do you agree that this statement is "by the power of the Holy Spirit?" Yes/No

I don't know if it is. If I say in Jesus name, we are announcing change, can you agree or disagree that the statement is in Jesus' name?

adsonstone:
2. "Listen, when you go home, tell anybody you see that from the oracle of the Holy Spirit, we are announcing change (AMEN)."
Do you agree that this statement is "from the oracle of the Holy Spirit?" Yes/No

I don't know. If I say from the sanctuary of the Lord, we are announcing change, can you agree or disagree that it is from the sanctuary of the Lord?

adsonstone:
3. "As things stand right now, from the oracle of the Holy Spirit, Jonathan should honourably resign quietly and let Nigeria be."
Do you agree that this statement is "from the oracle of the Holy Spirit?" Yes/No

I don't know? Do you?

adsonstone:
Trying to attack me?
Sorry, it won't help in any way.

Leave me and face the post.

Your post is a product of your reasoning. You said I seemed inconsistent when you seemed deficient.

Who is attacking who?

You seem forgetful too.

ruffp:
U are d one who is clearly ignorant. What is ur definition of an "official statement"........statements made inside an office? Abeg ur level of intelligence is lower than the discuss.....move to "jokes" section.

The Catholic Church has not said anything about Fr Mbaka to the public. Simple.

If you have anything to prove me wrong, present it here.

Rawani:
Did you read where I said in the OP that this was a rejoinder to the FP article which stated that the Catholic Church disagreed with Fr. Mbaka or did you ignorantly skip reading it clearly? I'm glad you can see the deceit involved.

The bold is inaccurate...practically false.

adsonstone:
Alright. I don't want to conclude

Here are the simple questions again for the fifth time.

1. What has Rev. Fr Mbaka ever done
that you're not comfortable with?
2. What has the Holy Spirit ever done
that you're uncomfortable with?

Again, what's the point? If it is to know whether I am honest or dishonest, I dont care.

So why should I answer?

adsonstone:
You seem to be inconsistent with your words.
You have just said that;



Now, here you are again, saying;

I am not inconsitent. "He said" in the first statement...doesn't mean "I know."

It is your reasoning that seems to be deficient.

adsonstone:
You're not in a position to conclude since you don't know whether it is from the Holy Spirit or not....neither have you agreed or disagreed.

I am not in a position to conclude what?

adsonstone:
Then how can you know the summary of the message when you don't even know the message?

I know the message from Fr Mbaka. I know the summary. What I don't know is the particular message from the Holy Spirit...which you were asking me about.

It seems you're getting confused.

Rawani:
I know this because it was not in the news, and they would have mentioned any prior disciplinary action in their latest statement.

If they did, the question is why they chose to respond in public when the message was against GEJ, but privately when against Buhari despite protests by the opposition at the time.

Are they partisan?

The Catholic Church has not officially said anything.

Stop making ignorant assumptions.

Rawani:
They clearly didn't issue any condemnation. Why could this be?

How do you know this?

When did Catholic Bishops start announcing their disciplinary actions against their own priests to you?

ruffp:
If they did so privately,then they should have handled this one in like manner. Instead they fuelled the controversy.

The Catholic Church has not made an official statement.

Fr Mbaka's Bishop has not made an official statement.

So stop making ignorant assumptions.