₦airaland Forum

shdemidemi:
I can definitely give you verses that state clearly how christians got the 'saint' status. By these works that you have listed, can you help with a part of scripture that says you become a saint by them?

Ephesians 5:3-4
But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.

Rev 13:10 If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

shdemidemi:
He listed the few he baptised and said emphatically that Jesus did not send him to come and baptise but to preach the gospel. Where exactly did you get the idea that the corinth church got baptised by someone else?

Then why did he baptize anyone at all?

Christ told his apostles to baptize all nations, including Corinthians. Are you saying these men disobeyed Christ?

shdemidemi:
Cooperate!!

Was Judas part of the twelve when Christ said it?

Yes. But he separated himself from Jesus - full of grace and truth.

shdemidemi:
If you don't understand the setting, look closer. Paul stopped speaking about Christians in chapter 8, he poke about Israele through chapter 9, 10 and 11 and returned to the church at 12.

Look closer, you might just see.

In Rom11:20, Paul said: "They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand only through faith.." Those are not unbelievers, but Christians.

You're lying shamelessly.

shdemidemi:
Did he Paul say it isn't by works? Its a simple question, don't be shy.

He said so. He was talking to about works of the law which was in use before they came to faith. Salvation is not a one time thing. After coming to faith, one must do good works as the very next verse highlights.

So I believe Paul there. Do you believe Paul when he says Christians (Rom 11:20) can be cut off if they dont continue in kindness (Rom11:22)?

shdemidemi:
hmm, really!!! Did he really say that, you understand you can't add to the written word?

Yes. He said who hates his brother is a murderer and murderers cannot have eternal life. He also said you cant say you love God and not love brother. You contradict these things.

You say a Christian can make heaven even if he hates brother.

shdemidemi:
Is John the Apostle God appointed to me, me being a Gentile?

Yes. Jesus sent all the apostles to teach all nations. Yes or no. So you are contradicting John because you didn't know he was sent to you?

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

shdemidemi:
Get yourself a study material, you goofed with the definition, you don't want to embarass yourself beyond NL, do you?

Show me how darkness means only ignorance, not evil too.

CANTICLES:
pen or pencil ..... That statement affirms that pen is distinct from pencil.

God or Jesus .... That statement affirms that God is different from Jesus ! " Christ seats at the right hand of God ( Jehovah) " Col 3:1

So lets look at the scripture where both of them use the same title.

Isaiah 44:6 " I am the first and the last , there is no God but me" .... Jehovah God use first and d last to denote his being the Almighty God !
BUT HOW DID JESUS, HIS SON USE IT ?

Rev 1:17 : " I am the first and the last ,... I became dead, but look! I am livin forever and ever "... Jesus used first and last to denote his glorious ressurection from d dead, he is truly the "first" ressurected to everlastin life and will be the last person whom Jehovah God His Father will raise from the dead. ! Its Jesus,who will resurect others ( Joh 5:28,29)

Jehovah's Witness, stop fixing your lies into scripture.

Jesus said he is the first and the last. He didn't say first to resurrect.

Is Jesus also the "last" to be resurrected? He'd have to be for your manipulation to make sense.

Another question: "who is the eternal Father?"

vooks:
Bro,
This is what you get when you arm spiritual neanderthals with scriptures

1.X,Y and Z are church/Grace-age jargon.
2. X,Y,Z are not found in A,B,C books
3. A,B,C books are not for church-age

The same minds who swear Antichrist a totally ALIEN name in Revelation is the MAIN bad guy there.

And here is the worst bit; they are as dishonest as hell; they will argue from silence when it serves them and cling to 'literal' interpretation of Revelation and Prophecy ONLY when it advances their Dispensationalism BS

My broda, with these you dont even have time to define foolishness, you'd waste a lot of time doing so. Instead, just watch Foolishnes Incarnate
U

I have not seen this kind of foolishness before.

shdemidemi:
Eph 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

Did Paul say this? yes or no

I'm showing you how your heresy is contradicting John and you're asking me an unrelated question to evade the issue.

shdemidemi:
What did they say about salvation by the finished work of Christ?

John said he who lacks love for brother cannot be saved. He who does not keep God's commandments cannot be saved. You're contradicting him.

shdemidemi:
From my bible dictionary, yours?

From my head. Why should I regard your bible dictionary?

shdemidemi:
So, if one gets baptised, keep God's commandment and suffer for Jesus, he is then qualified to be callled a saint, is that what you are saying?

Yes.

shdemidemi:
Unfortunately, Paul did not baptise any of these people with water, so baptism is definitely out of it.

He did baptize some. And the fact that he didn't baptize the rest doesn't mean they weren't baptized by another person. Jesus asked that all peoples should be baptized. The Corinthians knew this, unlike you who doesn't know.

shdemidemi:
If Jesus said this of Judas, you think he was wrong?

He made a mistake?

He didn't really know past the present?

Since this one is a moot example, help with another one.

He said it about the 12, not Judas specifically. Judas didn't cooperate with that plan and was replaced. No need for another example.

shdemidemi:
Paul was speaking to a nation and not individuals, isn't it?

Will the fall of Gentiles affect me personally? Read to understand the chapter properly.

The Jewish nation have been broken off quite alright, does that mean the elects who come into Christ will not be saved?

Paul was speaking to Christians. He said they stood by faith. Stop fooling yourself.

shdemidemi:
When God sees a Christian, does he see him as a sinner or as saint?

Both.

sameera025:
This is the meaning of the verse Q2:193

Keep on fighting against them until mischief ends and the way prescribed by Allah prevails. But if they desist, then know that hostility is directed only against the wrong-doers.

Mischief being killing, oppression. But Allah is saying that even if they refuse to follow and believe that hostility should only be directed to the wrongdoers. Not the innocent. He didn't say kill. He said fight. I would like to think that I am fighting now for my religion to be understood.

1. You said that "fitnah" is "mischief" and it meant killing. Q2:191 (two verses above) says "fitnah is worse than killing." Fitnah also means disbelief and worshipping other gods.

2. You said he didn't say "kill." He said it two verses earlier. In fact, he said "if they fight you, kill them." Q2:191.

3. You cannot explain: "Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah."

So what happens if they stop fighting you but they don't acknowledge Allah?

Muhammad says "keep fighting them." Isn't that the logical conclusion?

shdemidemi:
Did I write Romans 5? It says love for God is the work of the Holy Spirit. You see how contradictions appear when you don't divide rightly?

You're now deliberately saying gibberish.

You said a Christian can lack love for his brother and go to heaven. St. John says that person will not go to heaven. You're contradicting him with your heresy.

shdemidemi:
Of course they are applicable to us because we can learn off them. But Peter mentioned where to turn for the Word/gospel of salvation-
2 Pet 3
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

Peter never said Paul is the only place to turn for the word of salvation. He said Paul had written to them about what he was talking about.
Why then did the Holy Spirit make them Peter, James, John, Jude, Mark, Luke write about salvation?

Are their writings on salvation true or false?

shdemidemi:
Where is your definition of darkness from?

My head. Where is yours from?

shdemidemi:
Do you mind stating these other things they did which made them qualified to be called 'saints'/separated/consecrated?

They prayed. They participated in the sacraments, like baptism, eucharist etc, they kept God's commandments, they lived and suffered for Jesus.

How many more do you want?

shdemidemi:
He didn't save anyone until He died and rose, did He?

You know Judas is a wrong example to use, don't you?

No. It is a good example. Judas did not cooperate with the plan in the verse below which was the plan of God for everybody.

Matt 19:28 “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man is seated on the throne of his glory, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

shdemidemi:
Rom 11:22 spoke about a Gentile nation and not Christians. It says the Jews were cut off because of their unbelief, didn't it? If you want us to go through that chapter I am game.

You're lying.

Rom11:20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand only through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe.

You mean non Christians are "standing through faith?"

There is no trick or lie you'll not use to protect your heresy.

shdemidemi:
1cor 6 Are christians unrighteous or saints? Still waiting for the things they did that made them saints, so we can analyse what de-saints them.

Christians are saints...and sinners. That is what 1Cor6:9 said. Why are you asking me again?

vooks:
WHO said the gospel of salvation by Grace came through Paul? What other gospel was there? You are presumptuous



Negro please!
Give me one example of anyone who heard Philip the evangelist's gospel and yet suffered condemnation

There are typical Dispensationalists mindless arguments from silence....'because it is NOT written,it is NOT there' since we have no record of any apostle save James dying, does that mean the rest never died? And we have no record of any of the apostles being born...they was never born

And Jesus never laughed...cos the Bible never said so.



How do we define foolishness?

shdemidemi:
Romans 5:5
And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

The love of God is imputed when we accept the faith, so it is impossible for a genuine christian to lack love for God.

And you say a Christian can lack love for brother and go to heaven...while St. John calls one who doesn't love brother a murderer who cannot have eternal life.

You are contradicting St. John with your heresy.

shdemidemi:
Bro, we can keep going round this issue without progress if you readily lock your mind. I have not said most of what you are asking here.

NB darkness means ignorance'

Are you then saying Gentiles too are obliged to love brother by that passage?

Please come out clear, stop rigmarolling. Are the teachings of John, James, Peter applicable to Jewish Christians only or Jewish and Gentile Christians?

NB Darkness also means evil.

shdemidemi:
So when you suffer, you are declared a saint?

I said they did many things. E.g sufferingvfor Christ. I didn't say that any body who is punched or hungry is automatically a saint. Stop playing dumb.

shdemidemi:
What gives you the impression that te intent of God's grace was to stop Judas from doing what he did?

Because Jesus came that all might be saved, including Judas. Jesus didn't come for only you.

shdemidemi:
If we are saying the gospel of salvation by grace came with Paul's gospel, how does that apply to Judas?

Sorry, I dont believe in this your two gospels bullshit. Even in Paul's writings, it tells us that believers can be cut off from God if they dont continue in his kindness.

Rom 11:22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness toward you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

shdemidemi:
Please give one example of anyone who heard Paul's gospel and yet suffered condemnation.

St. Paul doesn't keep record of the names of people in hell...but he tells us the kind of people that can go to hell...and that includes believers.

1Cor6:9

shdemidemi:
I am not. How do we come to a common understanding if the meanings behind the words we are talking about is different?

Answer based on your understanding of faith...as I have been answering you based on my understanding of the words being talked about.

Is faith in God enough to get one to heaven, or is love of God too needed?

shdemidemi:
John isn't saying the condition for salvation is when you love your brother, is he? He is only saying you can't be saying you love God and not produce the fruit. If you say you love God, it shows in your attitude..vooks being a perfect example.

Like you have rightly pointed out you cannot find one word of Church or what we call Church – the Age of Grace – language in epistles of John Peter and James. In other words, there’s no reference to the Body of Christ. There’s no reference to the working and the controlling of the Holy Spirit - as over against the keeping of the Law - it’s ‘legal.’ It’s not that the Spirit is going to control us, but that they have to go by what James is telling them. There is no Grace-Age language in there either. You also won’t find the plan of salvation in these Jewish epistles.

John said whoever does not love his brother:

1. "Is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes." (1John2:11)

2. "Is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." (1John3:15)

And you say a Christian can love God, not love his brother and go to heaven.

You're contradicting the Bible with your heresy.

Also, are you saying that only Jewish Christians are obliged to love their brothers, and not Gentiles?

Then tell me which books in the Bible were addressed to Gentile Christians.

shdemidemi:
What did they do to deserve being called 'saints'?

Many things. E.g They endured suffering for the Lord. Read 2Cor1...from verse 3.

shdemidemi:
God's grace can be ineffective if a christian does not cooperate?

Yes. God's grace was there for Judas. He didn't cooperate.

God stands at the door knocking. He doesn't break the door and enter (Rev 3:20)

shdemidemi:
Do you want me to pâste my pending questions?



May be when we both understand what we mean by Faith, we will know the role love plays in having faith.

What is faith?

You are still avoiding my question. Answer based on your understanding of faith.

shdemidemi:
Why not? You can be a Christian and yet be carnal, can't you?

So you say one can be a Christian, yet not love his brother. And you say one cannot be a Christian without loving God.

Summary: a christian can love God and not love his brother.

The Bible says the opposite.

1John4:20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can[c] he love God whom he has not seen?

What now? 1John was written to Jews only or John was ignorant?

AgentOfAllah:
Read about the crusades.

As for Bush's justification, check the hyperlink I provided in my comment.

The link tells us that some Palestinians said that Bush said...


No direct quote from George Bush.

AgentOfAllah:
I'm not having this discussion with you. Go read a little bit on history of the Crusades. In the process, thousands of innocent Jews and Muslims were massacred.

We are not talking of the process. In the process of removing Hitler, innocents died. In the process of fighting ISIS, Boko Haram, innocents are dying.

What caused the crusades? The atrocities of Muslims in and around the Holy land.

sameera025:
Let me make one thing clear, the quran is from God. They are his words that he revealed through the prophet Muhammed.

These verses were revealed at a time when Muslims of Madinah were under constant attack from the Makkans. An example would be when the Makkans conducted the public crucifixion of the companion of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), Khubaib bin Adi. These would be classified as 'terrorist activities' according to the modern usage of the term. So what does this verse say in this context? "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you", "unless they (first) fight you there" - the context of this verse applies to those who initiate the attack against Muslims. And even after they attack, the verse makes it clear:


"But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." [Noble Quran 2:192]

http://www.aboutjihad.com/terrorism/quran_misquote_part_2.php

The verse specifically says that they should fight until there is no more disbelief...until the enemies submit to Allah.

Quran 2:193 Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

You're ignoring that.

shdemidemi:
What made paul call them saints, could it be because they helped themselves or cooperated with God I.e was it by their doing?

By God's doing...and their doing.

shdemidemi:
When you say cooperating with God's grace, does that mean His grace isn't sufficient?

No it doesn't mean that. His grace is sufficient but ineffective if you don't cooperate with his grace.

shdemidemi:
What is faith and how do you get to have faith?

I had some questions for you, hope you didn't miss them?

But I have been answering you. Why are you now avoiding my questions?
So it takes more than faith in God to be a Christian, love too is needed?

Can one be a Christian, yet not love his brother?

shdemidemi:
You can't be a Christian if you don't love God. You can't hate God and say you are a follower- haters of God are the atheist and all that don't believe in Christ.

So it takes more than faith in God to be a Christian, love too is needed?

Can one be a Christian, yet not love his brother?

shdemidemi:
Is heaven dependent on who I love or who I do not love?

My answer to your question based on scripture is 'yes'.

Can a Christian who doesn't love God go to heaven?

Shdemidemi, can a christian who doesn't love his brother go to heaven?

shdemidemi:
Does that not mean you can't help yourself?

You can't say you have made yourself righteous and at the same time say you remain a sinner, can you?

I can. Paul called the Corinthian Church "carnal" and "saints."

shdemidemi:
That was my exact question.



Good... Now you agree you can't make yourself righteous.

What do you mean by cooperating with God's grace?

I meant to say I cant make myself righteous on my own. I can cooperate with God's grace by doing good and living right...to make myself righteous. Like Abraham who cooperated by offering up his son.

Sameera025, thank you for answering.

Please allow me to bring you some verses one by one to avoid confusion.

Quran 2:193 Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

Isn't that Muhammad asking his followers to fight unbelievers and to stop if the unbelievers convert to Islam?

shdemidemi:
If you have, why did you agree to be a sinner when I asked?

Because I still sin, like St. Paul and the Corinthians after their justification.

shdemidemi:
Moreover, James is saying 'works' and 'faith'. My question was if you can make yourself righteous...you said 'yes'.

Do you stand by your 'yes' or do you think it needs 'faith' and your 'work'?

That wasn't your question. Stop lying.

I cannot make myself righteous but I can help myself by cooperating with God's grace by doing good and living right.

vooks:
Talking of which you been playing dumb for a better part of today

Why do you ASK for forgiveness seeing Christ forgave you your past,present and future sins?

Shdemidemi, can you answer that?

shdemidemi:
Interesting!!! Why haven't you done that already? By now you shouldn't be admmiting the 'sinner' status since you can correct the wrong.

I have done so...but I have to keep doing it. Justification is on-going throughout ones lifetime.

That is why the Bible says a man is justified by works, not by faith alone. E.g Abraham.

But you believe James was ignorant when he wrote that part of the Bible.

Alfranco:
The Crusades? People should research why the Crusaders were at war. Besides we've past the dark ages of 1090s to about 1100 Crusades. This is 21st Century where religious strife of any kind cannot be justified. And what has innocent folks of Nigeria in black Africa got to do with that in modern day?

These days are darker than the ones you call "dark ages."

The things that caused the crusades are the same things ISIS is doing now: unjust and unprovoked killing, raping and destruction for allah.

shdemidemi:
Thank you, I guess only Frosbel is good on this forum.

Can you help yourself from the sinner status to a 'righteous' status?

Yes.

esere826:
Haba Italo

I just dey help you oo
We cannot write one thing in English and mean another ooo
we are not mind readers
Well carry go and more grammatical twisting power to your elbow

If I thought "sick" was a verb, my statement would read: "sickler is not from the verb "sick."

But how can I explain this simple thing to you? How can I open your brain and put common sense in there?

So let me agree that I never knew that "sick" wasn't a verb. I thought it was. I thought it was right to say "I am sicking" or "you sicked."

You dont argue with a mad man that calls you "mad." You either ignore or agree and move away.

CANTICLES:
The folly of religion ..... Uv forgotten The original greek doesnt have CAPITAL LETTERS like english language

It literally reads " in d beginin was the word, and the word was towards the god, and god was the word" a translator must supply capital letters into d language in which he translates
statement
1) the word was toward the god ! : this clearly show d word WAS WITH someone ! Which no doubt refer to the Almighty God ,

2) and god was the word ..... This secon "g" has no justification to be capitalized !!

Verse 2 indicates that the word is not the Almighty God ....

Joh 1:2 " This one ( the word) was in the beginning with God "


d Word, only begotten son became flesh NOT GOD who sent him into d world ( JOH 3:16

Jehovah's witnesses and rigmarolling!

Let me ask you a simple question:

Who is "the first and the last."

God or Jesus?

* you go dance tire today.