₦airaland Forum

Crysthaniel:
My Own Point is that all this Debates here Are potentially fruitless and won't help anyone in real sense
I urge everyone to develop their self spiritually not arguing that a particular religion is right or wrong

Hismasterpiece:
Lol... Mr Max... The JW who swallows every thing the Watchtower gives him without questioning...

Hismasterpiece:
the man who uses only one Scripture in the whole Bible to form a doctrine about the non-existence of Hell when there are more than 10 Scriptures that contradict that doctrine...

Hismasterpiece:
The man who believes that the Holy Spirit is not a person...

Hismasterpiece:
The man who believes that human beings are made in the image of Angels...

Hismasterpiece:
the man that denies the doctrine of the Trinity....

Hismasterpiece:
I could go on and on but like I said before and will say again... continue in your deception

Steep:
first born used in the bible is not always literal. It is used to denote superiority other times.
Firstborn over all creation means pre-eminence.

Steep:
Actually, yahweh said he created the heavens and the earth by himself.

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

He didn't create anything through another being.

treesun:
Lalasticlala, I remembered one of my mum's cousin, anytime he comes to our house, he will go and sit outside if we are watching TV, he will say we are watching, devil's box!

achorladey:
You will soon run coming back. My response to that your stupidity forming work peddling still dey come

achorladey:
The foundation of the religion is based on EISEGESIS paapaa. Na person wey sabi go know.

omoharry:
And they break homes base on thier religion. Any religion that will justify the breaking of homes is evil .

Themandator:
I learnt that the Ekwueme woman died of domestic violence

Steep:
First of all, the disciples confessed that Jesus knows all things which confirms his divinity as truly God.

Steep:
The devil doesn't know all things only God does. Yes Jesus is from God but he is also God, just as the light that Comes from the sun is also called sun.

Steep:
If Jesus said he does not know the time of his coming, that was because he spoke in his human capacity.

Steep:
Do you know what the council at nicaea is?

achorladey:
The constitution of FIFA na your BIBLE

I dey come


That your NO GET SENSE PEDDLING wey add STUPIDITY forming woke na him cause

achorladey:
Now he knows where the Post is coming from and my lies are now your truth. Show me the verse of the Bible where Paul was governing body member show where apostle Paul call those taking the lead governing body

OLAADEGBU:
You are the one deceiving yourselves pretending not to join the army when you actually engaged in spiritual warfare of disarming and harming people of the bible truth with your Watchtower beliefs. You are in opposition to the army of God when you wage war against the gospel truth.

OLAADEGBU:
Christ was not created but is the Creator (Colossians 1:16; John 1:3).

The term firstborn, defined biblically, means Christ is "the first in rank" and "pre-eminent"

OLAADEGBU:
over the creation He brought into being.

OLAADEGBU:
Jesus was begotten not created. He existed before He was begotten of the Virgin Mary. Give that to your Watchtower society to ruminate about.

kennethfranc:
Make I hear.... some of their men are very toxic and dangerous when they are not with their suit, bag and umbrella. I had one as a neighbor yrs back, his wife avoids anything that might stir up argument cuz it always ends with a slap. But once they step out for outreach they become an enviable couple.

wilyparker:
I like the last question you asked him.. According to John 1 Jesus was with God right from the beginning. God exists in three forms God the Father, God the Son God the Holy Spirit

wilyparker:
Two simple questions for you please:

1. Whose word is this 'God created Jesus and through Jesus he created everything else' quote? Is it you or it isnt you?
2. At one point in the passage of time, was Jesus created.?

NNTR:
All sons are distinct from their fathers, so Jesus isnt an exception to this rule.

Jesus, is a distinct person from God, the Father, who in this instance and even context, is the one true Begetter, or Paterfamilias of Jesus

Philippians 2:6
'5The attitude you should have is the one that Christ Jesus had:
6He always had the nature of God,
but he did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God.
7Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all he had, and took the nature of a servant.
He became like a human being and appeared in human likeness.'

John 1:1-5, 10-11
'1In the beginning [before all time] was the Word (i.e. Jesus Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.
2He was [continually existing] in the beginning [co-eternally] with God.
3All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him not even one thing was made that has come into being.
4In Him was life [and the power to bestow life], and the life was the Light of men.
5The Light shines on in the darkness, and the darkness did not understand it or overpower it or appropriate it or absorb it [and is unreceptive to it]
10He (Christ) was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him.
11He came to that which was His own [that which belonged to Him--His world, His creation, His possession], and those who were His own [people--the Jewish nation] did not receive and welcome Him.'

Of course, God is all by Himself. He's the source of all life. Amen to that

Two simple questions for you please:

1. Whose word is this 'God created Jesus and through Jesus he created everything else' quote? Is it you or it isnt you?
2. At one point in the passage of time, was Jesus created.?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

achorladey:
Still looking for cheap points

Make I see how e fall yakata

Show me Governing body in all of these verses. You go read am tire from all translations you no go see one person dem call governing body or governing body member. You don throwaway your NIV

achorladey:
Na your NO GET SENSE PEDDLING cause the apostles were not the OWNERS of the sheep in the first place. Chai, the owner of the sheep even promised his sheep the help of the Holy spirit and added he will be with them until the conclusion of system of things. . Enjoy the free Bible study.

Those leading that Paul was talking about are NOT GOVERNING BODY or GOVERNING BODY MEMBERS. Stop infusing your ARCHAIC IDEAS TO BE MOCKED AND ARE IRRELEVANT AS A RESULT OF RECENT BIBLICAL EVIDENCE into the Bible


Now you have to pluggin other monikers to ensure you push your cheap point to the line. . Those discussion based on the non existent governing body for Bible still dey make you peddle WAILINGS pele

[s]Janosky who is the best man owner of that post. Did you see that person talk about governing body.

Do they govern over the faith of OTHERS.

RECANTATIONS time
[/s]

tctrills:
Show me where I said Yahweh is not the one true God?

Tctrills Post:
"For the Gnostics, Jesus was the true God, as opposed to Yahweh, the creator....."

The same man who said Janosky doesn't know Jesus is the true God.

Achorladey coman help your friend explain wetin he post.

tctrills:
Scholars are not the solution here.
Below are various interpretation of John 1.1 all by scholars
The Meaning and Origin of ‘In the Beginning Was the Word’

‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.’ These are among the most famous lines in the New Testament: they begin the Gospel of St. John. But what does ‘In the beginning was the Word’ mean? Let’s take a closer look at the meaning of this famous opening sentence.

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It’s perhaps helpful to begin by setting out the difference between the Gospel of John and the three other gospels: Matthew, Mark, and Luke. The Gospel of Mark is thought to have been composed the earliest of the four gospels, with Matthew and Luke basing their own accounts on it. The gospel of John was written later still, and of the four, has the strongest claim to actually having been written by one of Jesus’ apostles. (It’s been speculated, though we cannot know for sure, that John may have written his account in the late first century AD, when he was an old man of nearly 90.)


Matthew, Mark, and Luke are grouped together as the ‘Synoptic’ gospels, from a word meaning ‘seeing together’. These three accounts all reflect each other to varying degrees. But the Gospel of John is quite different. Right from those opening words, ‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God’, John is signalling that his account of Jesus’ life will be treating Jesus as much more than a human being. This is not to say that the other gospel writers don’t also acknowledge that Jesus is the Messiah (as well as a human being), but that John’s Jesus is supernatural and ethereal – otherworldly, almost – right from the beginning.


‘In the beginning was the Word.’ But what does John mean by ‘the Word’? The original Greek text has Logos, for which ‘the Word’ is our English translation. But Logos is a word that comes with a lot of meanings packed into it, and ‘the Word’ is only a partial reflection of this densely significant word. This term, ‘the Word’, is not found in the Old Testament, and its use in the New Testament is down entirely to John.

In his endlessly informative Asimov’s Guide to the Bible: The New Testament: 002, the author and all-round polymath Isaac Asimov links John’s ‘In the beginning was the Word’ to the Greek philosophy of Thales of Miletus, who lived in the seventh century BC. Thales argued that, contrary to the idea that the world was largely erratic and unpredictable in its operations, it was actually subject to rigid laws of nature, and that these laws could be discovered using reason and observation. This is the beginnings of both rationalism and empiricism, if you will.


This meant that God – or, depending on which belief system you subscribed to, a whole pantheon of gods – created the world upon some clear and knowable principle, and that this principle is constant rather than changeable and arbitrary. One of Thales’ followers, Heraclitus, used the term ‘Logos’ to refer to this rational principle. ‘Logos’ means ‘word’ but it also denotes the entire rational structure of knowledge as Thales and Heraclitus had theorised it.


And as the term ‘Logos’ was taken up by more and more philosophers, it came to refer not to some abstract entity but to a thing, even a person: the person who had created this orderly system of knowledge and principle in the world. Logos, if you will, became personified. This tradition spread beyond the Greek world, and was taken up by the Jewish followers of Yahweh, or the Old Testament God. In Jesus’ time, a man named Philo the Jew popularised the term Logos as a reference to the rational aspect of Yahweh.


So when John begins his gospel by taking us back to the very beginning – of time and of the world and the universe – he is using the term Logos in light of this thinking. So ‘In the beginning was the Word’ means ‘In the beginning was Logos’ which means ‘at the beginning of everything, there was the entity we know as God, who embodied, and created, the rational principle on which everything is founded’.

[b]So much for ‘In the beginning was the Word’; but what about the next part of John’s sentence? How was ‘the Word’ with God as well as being God?


Well, as Asimov explains, at the time John was writing there were some philosophers who tried to keep God and Logos separate. Logos was not synonymous with God, but merely one power that he possessed, if you will. God, being spiritual, was removed from the rational and scientific processes of the world: he could not be associated with material things, as an elision of ‘God’ with ‘Logos’ would imply. These philosophers and mystics were known as ‘Gnostics’, from the Greek meaning ‘to know’.

For these Gnostics, because the world is material, God could not have been directly responsible for creating it. Instead, they believed some sub-divine and more malevolent entity had done that. Because the world is full of evil, the Gnostics reasoned, an evil being must have had a hand in its creation. Plato famously called this being the ‘Demiurge’. And for Gnostics, Yahweh – the Old Testament version of God – was really the Demiurge, this inferior being to the true God, and the Demiurge was the one who had brought the (flawed) world into being. [/b].

For the Gnostics, Jesus was the true God, as opposed to Yahweh, the creator and Demiurge. And the Gospel of John, and those opening lines, set themselves against such a Gnostic interpretation of God and Creation. God and Jesus, God and Logos, Logos and Jesus: all are one and the same [/b].
[b] Or, as John more poetically (but obscurely) puts it: ‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.’ That is, at the beginning of all things there was Logos, the creator of everything. And Logos was not only with God, but Logos was God. As the succeeding two verses of the Gospel of John make clear, Logos and God are the same being:

1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1:2 The same [i.e., Logos, the Word] was in the beginning with God.

1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

That is, Logos was God, and Logos made ‘all things’. God made all things, but God was Logos, or the Word.
John 1:1 is the first verse in the opening chapter of the Gospel of John in the New Testament of the Christian Bible. The traditional and majority translation of this verse reads reads:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.[1][2][3][4]

The verse has been a source of much debate among Bible scholars and translators.

"The Word," a translation of the Greek λόγος (logos), is widely interpreted as referring to Jesus, as indicated in other verses later in the same chapter.[5] For example, “the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us” (John 1:14; cf. 1:15, 17).

This and other concepts in the Johannine literature set the stage for the Logos-Christology in which the Apologists of the second and third centuries connected the divine Word of John 1:1-5 to the Hebrew Wisdom literature and to the divine Logos of contemporary Greek philosophy.[6]

On the basis of John 1:1, Tertullian, early in the third century, argued for two Gods where the Persons are distinct but the substance is undivided. But Tertullian saw the Word as ontologically inferior because He is only “a portion of the Whole.”

In John 1:1c, logos has the article but theos does not. Origen of Alexandria, a teacher in Greek grammar of the third century, argued that John uses the article when theos refers to "the uncreated cause of all things." But the Logos is named theos without the article because He participates in the divinity of the Father because of “His being with the Father.”

The main dispute with respect to this verse relates to John 1:1c (“the Word was God”). One minority translation is "the Word was divine." This is based on the argument that the grammatical structure of the Greek does not identify the Word as the Person of God but indicates a qualitative sense. The point being made is that the Logos is of the same uncreated nature or essence as God the Father. In that case, “the Word was God” may be misleading because, in normal English, "God" is a proper noun, referring to the person of the Father or corporately to the three persons of the Godhead.

With respect to John 1:1, Ernest Cadman Colwell writes:

The absence of the article does not make the predicate indefinite or qualitative when it precedes the verb, it is indefinite in this position only when the context demands it.

So, whether the predicate (theos) is definite, indefinite or qualitative depends on the context. Consequently, this article raises the concern that uncertainty with respect to the grammar may result in translations based on the theology of the translator. The commonly held theology that Jesus is God naturally leads to a corresponding translation. But a theology in which Jesus is subordinate to God leads to the conclusion that "... a god" or "... divine" is the proper rendering.

Shuoooo
Oturugbeke !!!!!!!!!!

"For the Gnostics, Jesus was the true God, as opposed to Yahweh, the creator....."
The same claim Oga Tctrills have been making repeatedly on this thread.

The Gnostics were the source of your Trinity GIBBERISH.
Not genuine believers, NOT Jehovah's servants.


Oga, continue your belief in the Gnostics philosophy you call "Trinity".

Congratulations

tctrills:

You have not for one day come out to say that what I post isn't found in the bible. I have never posted anything outside the bible but you are uncomfortable. Why

tctrills:
I just went through all you wrote again. The more I read the more It becomes clear that you are not sure how to place Jesus Christ. You are not comfortable calling him God because it would destroy are your arguments. Yet you cant do without calling him God because it is clearly stated in the bible. Again you cant tell if he is a true God because John 17.3 says there is only one true God yet again, you don't know if he a a false God.
The Catholics you condemn are far better than you. At least they understand their position. When you come up with a clear position of who Jesus is, I would love to know.

Tctrills, you have been UNABLE to disprove John and Jesus Christ@ John 20:17.
Oga, go & rest.

achorladey:
This one that one of his brother in Jehovah said nairaland has no rules no go listen to your words. They feed and drink on insult, name calling, tags and labels. They inherited it from their forerunners and religious leaders

yahwehpickin:
If you say the trinity is a Catholic dogma then you don't read your bible.

yahwehpickin:
Jesus the Christ, has always spoken about his father Jehovah and the Holy Spirit.
We pray to God(father) through Jesus by the Help and guidance of the Holy Spirit.

yahwehpickin:
Elohim is plural

yahwehpickin:
In creation God the Father, the word and the Spirit was present.... They are one but have their different functions.

yahwehpickin:
Romans 8:16
[16]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

yahwehpickin:
When it comes to mary, the mother of Jesus... She was a vessel like any other vessel God has used, and you need to look at the lineage from Adam to Abraham to David to Joseph the earthly father of Jesus. God orchestrated the whole thing. ( There were others who paid the price too) So I see Mary as a vessel, a saint one through whom Jesus Christ came as God purposed it.

When Jesus started ministry and he was preaching and the people told him your mother and brethren were here to see him. His reply was

Mark 3:31-35
[31]There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
[32]And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.

[33]And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?

[34]And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

[35]For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

So Jesus has many mothers, we are all part of this great family!!!!

tctrills:
Boss let others attempt the question. You seem to have no idea who Jesus Christ is. You are not even sure if he is God or not. You don't seem to have a stand. At one point, you said he is a true God, at another time you say he is not God. Haba. What is the matter?

Oga, you are confused & very desperate to console yourself .
John 20:17, Jesus Christ brought your confusion to an end but you vehemently refused & rejected his evidence.

Shalom.

Crysthaniel:
I assure you that a time is coming where every one will condem every religion.. Look at the bigger picture here

OLAADEGBU:
All the verses you quoted up there is talking about the physical Kingdom that is to come when Christ sets up His Kingdom here on earth but what your organisation is ignorant of is what Jesus said below:

"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:21).

Jesus who is the physical presence of the Kingdom of God was telling the Pharisees that the Kingdom of God is among them, so close to them only if they could discern it. He had brought the Kingdom of God into to the hearts of those who would receive Him but blind Pharisees just like the blind bats of JW's organisation could not, would not and cannot see it.

achorladey:
By Agro guy:
as for the apostles there was no succession, Apostle John was the last apostle who died around A.D100. Christ is the head of the congregation and he directs the church through his holy spirit......the apostles were not dictators of faith or busy formulating some kind of dogma for the members of the congregation rather as Paul said "they were fellow workers" not "masters of their faith"

achorladey:
Point well placed want to score cheap points.

achorladey:
Na NO GET SENSE PEDDLING cause am . You better shine your eyes. Who has the quoted post above?

My lies are your truth. I await as you come back recanting again

TrajansKong:
This is the same ark which carried 36 million different lifeforms for 150 days and nights? That ark?

Also, What is the relevance of the mammoth? They have been found all over the northern hemisphere?

MaxInDHouse:
Is it after typing the above that you later came to type the below on another thread?



Well it's because your religion is false that's why you must doubt it, so this is the time to be open minded perhaps look carefully at the things you once abhor due to your former false religious beliefs!

Good question.
Which atheists & 3 deities Polytheists gods of men Sole Proprietor Pastorpreneurs have any understanding of Governing Body of Acts chapter 15?

The multitudes of posts and comments against JWs for teaching them the truth no be here ooo!

tctrills:
My religion is not in debate here.

tctrills:
What is your point?

achorladey:
How Jehovah’s witnesses go discuss without innuendos, name calling labels when the discussion does not dance to their tune. The expected outcome is the below.. M
We await more
Playing the victim card as usual . Abeg wetin Jehovah’s witnesses serve me that I need to serve back? You can equally see the bad fruits in other Christian denominations abi dem get good fruit ni? . Na make your body too hot about vengeance. The Bible you carry say vengeance is of the Lord but we know people like and Anthony Morris can't wait for us to go up in flames using the match stick and box as teaching aids to emphase how DESPICABLE APOSTATES will be destroyed.

Empty rants of a WAILER
Achorladey have you never used innuendos, name calling labels & playing the victim card on this public forum in your interactions with JWs when we refused to dance to your tune?

Oga, continue oooo

achorladey:
I laugh at STRICTLY when those Jesus is using cannot guarantee perfect spiritual food. . Your spiritual food is filled and refilled with mistakes and errors over the years. Oga go and read your brochure. To enjoy your self praise