₦airaland Forum

We must do all. That's the balance that Jesus was passing accros

Luke 11:42
42 "But woe to you Pharisees! For though you are careful to tithe even the smallest part of your income, you completely forget about justice and the love of God. You should tithe, yes, but you should not leave these other things undone.

Jesus didnt heap woe not on tithe payers , he heaped woe on those who neglected mercy and justice.

FXKing2012:
My dear, I'll say this again: Tithe, offerings and first fruit have absolutely no place in the new testament; they were in the laws of Moses which does not apply to us as we are not under the law but under grace.

They were in the law but they didn't originate in the law. The law came and passed but these spiritual laws or principles remain. Is there any place God abolished them?

Besides,the thngs which ar based on principles ,even if the originated in the law. They are still valid.

Let me ask you ,"honoring your father and mother" which originated in the law. Has grace abolished it?

God may Favour some people over others. But we have the greater part to win such Favour .

@GOD2MAN
is it a must that a christian who had idolatry in his ancestry background (in the flesh) go through deliverance process.? Or some exceptional cases

^^^^^
Very funny, are we in a competition?. It's simple. If you don't know it, you don't know it.

@OP
A christian can have demons living in him , his body ,or soul. But demons can't dwell in his spirit. Since Demonic possession takes place when demons indwels a person spirit, a christian can not be possessed because demons can't have access to his spirit for that is where God occupies

I was reading something about reincarnation. I got discouraged. All these long epistles weary me.

Who are these?

You pay thithe from what God bless you with , not what you don't have. Except if you misunderstood the guy . Probably he gave personal experience . I once had a personal experience with God as a Corper when I was in need of money and someone gave me 500 or 5,000 I forgot the amount while I was rejoicing for the miracle , I heard the spirit of God spoke to me to give the whole money as a tithe . I did that wedsday evening and 3 days after someone. And from lagos and brought an envelop from my family, I just knew how much would be there and exactly times ten of what I gave.

Now that's a personal experience , I didn't read it anywhere neither was I taught it, but by revelation. It was later in years I heard other people testimony of how they wanted a raise in their salary and they gave a tithe of the amount they desire ahead of time and after 2 or 3 months , their salary was increased to that amount they desired.
These are personal faith work and testimony , someone may share his experience and another person may misunderstand it.
People have borrowed to sow a seed. It's based on personal conviction.

I have right to omit any thing I want to omit. My point is not the woe, but the balance. You can pick the woe ,and leave the balance for me

goshen360:
There is nothing wrong in Christians, pastor or not a pastor, to participate in politics. What is wrong is a Christian doing what politicians do. You can participate in politics without being corrupt like them. Remember, you are in the world but not of the world.

I agree with you. So long as he can hold his christian value ,it will be a great thing.

Proverbs 29:2
When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice:but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.

musKeeto:
Funny thread

OPPOSING
Quote from OPI'll try my best.
Let's ignore your obvious contradiction.

What is the contradiction?

No one's arguing if it's biblical to give to Men of God. I think these thread focuses on 'SEED' giving - a concept whereby you give expecting a return. Mr. Jo, is that giving in the actual Christian sense? Saying you're giving a seed means you expect a return. Isn't this the philosophy most pastors spread today? Is IT BIBLICALLY correct?

Yes it's biblically correct. It's a bible truth.

Money donated to a Church or given to church is surely the church's business. What we are focusing on here is the means through which the money is gotten.

So what's your point?

TBH, I hate your style of picking specific verses and blending them to support your point. I would call it outright twisting. You are not the ONLY custodian of the Bible, Mr. Jo.

I pick what is relevant to make it snappy ,straight to the point.

Mark 7
I wouldn't like to get more involved in this arguments. I wouldn't call them pointless (I've actually learnt a lot from the religious section of NL). I will just ask Mr. Jo a simple question.
HAS 'GIVING' IN THE BIBLE BEEN HIJACKED TODAY?

So with all these abuses ,it's only a question you want to ask? Well anything can be hijacked

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT NO 'MAN OF GOD' IN NIGERIA TODAY IS A CONMAN?

There will always be false brethren and ministers.

So what have you achieved , with these nonsense .

goshen360:
My brother, you are my good friend even though we disagree in the area of tithe. However, we are to learn from one another because the bible says, iron sharpens iron. Jesus was still living under the Old testament in the book of Matthew while he was setting up order for the new testament that will take effect after his death; for where there is no death of a testator, a testament or will is of no effect and besides, He was talking to the Pharisees and "WOE". I can go on and on regarding tithe but the truth is, Now that Jesus already fulfilled the law, why are we still trying to keep it ONLY in this area of tithe? I hope you answer me.

Tithe topic is one topic I decided not to engage in an argument again on the forum. It's been waste of time having to repeat yourself all over again and again. I surprise BERNIMOORE accused me of what I didn't do. Quoting what I didn't say. I only answered because he wrongly interpreted that verse .But I dint make the statement he claimed


@BERNIMOORE
Where did you get this?

BERNIMOORE:
[b]@ FXKing2012.
joagbaje has surprised me by quoting mathew 23:23; in the new testament to butress his point about paying tithe, please read;,

joagbaje's quote;

NOW READ THE FULL SENTENCE AS IT APPEARS IN FULL IN THE BIBLE; COMPARE THEM PLS;

Mathew 23;23,
23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

When I talked about Mattew 23 I wasn't talking about tithing but balance

Liar! .

@ BERNIMOORE and FXKing2012

BERNIMOORE:
@ FXKing2012.

joagbaje has surprised me by quoting mathew 23:23; in the new testament to butress his point about paying tithe, please read;,

joagbaje's quote;

NOW READ THE FULL SENTENCE AS IT APPEARS IN FULL IN THE BIBLE; COMPARE THEM PLS;

Mathew 23;23,
23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.


THE MAIN CLAUSE OF THE SENTENCE;( “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!)

You're missing the whole point. Jesus was saying the Pharisees are too petty ,they gave tithes  even out of 10 kobo!.but yet they left out justice etc. He wasn't speaking against tithe. He was talking about balance. That has been my point .

Try read it in living bible.

Matthew 23:23
23 What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.

Hope it's clear to you now

OmoPastor:
FXking2012
My mission to the poor is not to help him in his poverty but to bring him out of his poverty,

I LIKE THIS GUY!

crossman9:
well it sure looks like it I am under attack every time I have opened the door with the chain on it? I get a different voice and attitude

Nobody is attacking you dear. As I said ,what is fighting you is inside of you . Spending hours of your day doing graphic work not to edify or win the lost but just to abuse and insult Jesus loving people is laughable. If you sprndyour your time and effort to reach the lost ,you will have recognition in heaven.

The trouble with Pastors like you is that you see everything the church does as a business

CEC does many charity work and I personally do many charity work. Rather the trouble  we have is that critics like you don't do anything neither help anybody but rather busy criticizing those who are at least doing something.

[flash=400,300]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgtIwGs0D0U&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/flash]

Theres another thread on first fruits . This thread is on sowing of seeds

I gave a scripture before

First fruit / tithes does not belong to the pastor. What belong to the pastor is what God leads individual to give him by free will

Nobody is at war with you, what is fighting you is inside of you.

dare2think:
Utter garbage!!!
Where in the bible did it say you should sow into a minister? This is fraudulent tactic!!.

Galatians 6:6
But let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

dare2think:
You are joking right?!!!!
Since when do Mog (Man of greed) become your parent?
Did he give birth to you?

It's not about MOG becoming parent. The point is , God word says to give to parents ,and you have no problem with that . God word also says to give to MOG and you have problem with that and you say MOG is chatlatan for reviving money. That's why I asked are parents charlatans too for recieving money? . Since since both giving were taught in Gods word.

So giving to your parents is charlatans too?

Exodus 20:12
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

dare2think:
When you give to MOG, are you giving to God too?

when you give MOG you give to God in that general sense you're looking at it. because it is based on Gods word. But there is difference when it comes to specific.

For example if someone goes to a pastor to say he wants to sow a seed of money. It has to be clear what it is for. If the man says he is sowing into the pastors life ,it is different from giving to God. If it is for God , the pastor sends it to church finance, but if it's for the pastor then there's difference. Church money doesn't belong to the pastor except what an individual gives to him personally. So sowing unto God and sowing unto MOG are different.

Every giving can be termed as giving to God because it is based on the word of God. But when it comes to specifics there's difference. Giving to poor or parents or to ministers can all be termed as giving to God because it's done by the word. In a sense. Just as rendering service to humanity can be seen as unto God in that same sense. Even the discharge of your official duty is a service unto God. Every sacrifice on our part.

Giving to parents is a spiritual giving to God in that sense but Jesus made the distinction .

Mark 7:11
11 But you say it is perfectly all right for a man to disregard his needy parents, telling them, `Sorry, I can't help you! For I have given to God what I could have given to you.'

^^^^
There are several ways you can give to God. Offering is one of them. You give to God in your church.

crossman9:
What really happed very briefly

Well in my time in Christ embassy I never had the luxury of meeting the almighty Pastor Chris Oyakhilome:  I am happy you had this chance:
maybe this little war I am waging would have never took place and the woman I was going to marry would have not tried to kill me with the car

Supposing your character has to do with this. I wanted to get to the root of this matter ,but you didn't allow. If I have my way I will call everyone involved . To hear their sides of the story.

and maybe the pastor would not have tried to get me arrested for filming in the church

Why would you film in a church without permission?

and some so called brother would have not threatened me with excommunication for question church teaching

It depends on how you went about it. There are several opportunity to question church teachings. There some question and answer services. There's foundation school and you have the opportunity to ask questions. Besides , it is absurd to say you were threatened for questioning doctrine . That can't be true a pastor does not even have authority to excommunicate a member in CEC not to talk of "some brothers" .

but see I found if you question the church teaching people treat you like you’re committing blasphemy

It's not true, but it depends on how you go about your own doctrine. You dont try to polute brethren with your doctrine ,You go to the authorities with your questions rather.  For example I read your wrong teaching against Sunday worship. You taught we must worship on Saturday's . if you go to a church which worship on Sunday and begin to tell the brethren that worship should be Saturday , you will be acting foolishly . See what I mean?

and I had the doors slammed in my face and told I am not “born again” because I did not agree with them

Supposing you're wrong. Because  you've taught some wrong things on this forum

this was to undermine me in front of the woman and treated with aggression you would only find in military boot camp see I lost everything through the church I almost lost my mind seeing them destroy the woman I love to twisted doctrines of demons and a so called brother in the lord who is false brother was telling her I had demons and I was treated with such hatred I wanted to die in fact I tried to do the job meaning kill myself I went in to such a slump of deep depression?

Supposing you really have some challenge and nobody has been able to tell you. Remember I once asked you if you have a mental problem . And I wasn't trying to be insultive . It's just my observation. If it's demonic ,  I can help. It's very simple. That's why I wanted us to discuss this privately

See I never found the church to be a open and loving place,  it was colder than Alaskan ice berg not evens the penguins would have felt welcome there? So You asked me once why I am doing this publicly well this is why because I tried to talk to the pastors here in the UK most of the time they were too busy to talk to

That's why I reached out to you. Because I would ask for names or numbers of people and hear their sides and we move from there. Supposing you are the one who is is troubling everybody? I would tell you and if they were wrong I will take it up. If it's a misunderstanding ,I will clarify .it will cost me my money . But you felt I wanted to discuss with you privately so as to sweep the matter under or prevent you from EXPOSING whatever , that's why I left you .let's see how far this fight of yours will go.

I am not tell you which churches it was in fact it was two of them but I know I am just another statistic for the church that will be swept under the carpet but this is one under dog that is not going down without a fight see I will be using these tactics it will be “Spiritual Guerrilla warfare" 
on the church using its weakness against its own strengths this is why I am doing this and believe me there is no amount of money anyone could give to dissuade me from the mission?

You are in your own world of fantasy  who cares?. The people you're fighting don't even feel your blow. 

written on the tin for me it was false advertising
I love you enough to tell you part of what happened to me

There are 2 sides to a story,as any wise hearted man , I always hear both sides first. Because everyone is right in their own eyes. That's why it is dangerous to come into conclusion with one sided story. My eye don see for counseling .


[

My post was based on your idea that money should rather be given to the poor instead of men of God . That's what I was clarifying . Everything has it's place . Giving to God, giving to your pastor , giving to the poor all have their places . One is not prefered above the other

I don't want to say this guy is sick. So I will say IT IS WELL WITH THIS GUY OO.