₦airaland Forum

@OMO_Tier

1.You do not pray through Jesus! When you get born  again (Rom 10 vs 9-10), you come INTO christ and God and you remain there! You carry the authority of the Name of Jesus where ever you go.So when you want to ask the Father something,or want to declare a thing in line with Gods word, you use that authority IN the name of Jesus.

Thank you for taking the pain to explain , but can a religious man understand truth if his eyes had not been opened.

1 Corinthians 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

musKeeto:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exactly why he didn't answer my questions.

I didn't know your question was that important to you? Let's look at it.

musKeeto:
It's amazing how Joagabaje has mastered the art of picking a verse to validate his wrong beliefs.
I have some questions for youSo did they receive the Holy Ghost by his breathing on them?
Was receiving the Holy Ghost here similar to the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

Baptism of the holyghost is actually bring born again. That's what happened when Jesus rose. The Pentecost experience was an infilling of the holyghost .

plappville:
it makes me laugh,

I dont think he is directing to u, @Op says blow air in a mic, but u qouted the bible, air through breath.
I seems two different air, Christ was through breath today it has be copied and stylished through the mouths with a mic.

It's the same thing based on the same principle . Wind ,air, breath. You do what God leads you to do. There will be a miracle if It's done by the spirit.

Did I blow on mic. What has it got to do with me?

Pastor AIO:
But what do you say about the fact that everywhere tongues are mentioned they refer to other human languages that were spoken at the time. And in fact the only place where mention is made of 'unknown tongues', ie 1Cor 14, the 'unknown' part was actually inserted by King James and it is not to be found in any original greek text.
http://biblos.com/1_corinthians/14-2.htm

The word Glossa which just means tongue/language is what has been translated as UNKNOWN TONGUE. Where did the unknown part come into it?

Joagbaje you don't need any special spiritual discernment for that.

When you're ready for a responsible discussion , we shall discuss it. The bible is authority

Like which church?

^^^^

Why are you so particular about the church name ,or the persons name. Disgrace of the church or the man is not the solution. The brother obviously need help. That is what ministry is about. His problem could be ignorance, lust, or demonic. The church is a place to perfect people and not a place of the perfect . It's only if the person reject teaching and rebuking especially by the church authority that a drastic action has to be taken.what they ought to have done is to report him to the pastor or church authority.

Galatians 6:1
1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

If Jesus didn't do it, you will say it's not in the bible , now Jesus was quoted ,you say "must they copy him" man cannot be satisfied. Besides, ministry is by the spirit .if a man is led to minister in a particular way, who is anybody to judge

Breathing has been used as a synonym for the operations of the holy spirit.

2 Samuel 22:16
16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

The spirit of God can operate through air so air can be breathed as a man seemed led . Jesus did it too.

John 20:22
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Leave the guy abegi. He is one of those people. Isn't it crazy , a church will divide people to sit according to giving. .
What are we not going to hear on this forum.

March man:
@joagbaje @mabell

I am. Member of CE. Been a member of since 2006 in Lagos.

Maybe you visit dude. Well all manner of people come and go. Like the 419 who may give a church bad name . You don't undertand the faith message in CEC so I seriously doubt your membership.

You don't get the gist of my post, do you? It is that giving to church or to people is a confidential thing, nothing to boast about on Nairaland!

Leave me and Jesus . It's a religious forum and , I can share a testimony . To inspire others .if you don't like it. Just move on.

Again, you make it sound as if God is a business man looking for people who will invest ( sow) in his business so that he would give them returns on their investments. And the larger the investments, the greater the returns.

Satan hates the truth and he will fight it. What do you say about these scriptures.

2 Corinthians 9:6
6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.


Galatians 6:7-9
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. . . 9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

My brother, God is not man. This is the system of the World and not of God.

That's the problem . You see spiritual principles as of the world. Would you rather have peasants in the church who will always need assistance or make a giant out of them by teaching them truth. On how to prosper.

If it were so all CE members would be billionaires. But I know many that are struggling no job, no food, can't pay school fees or house rents because of money challenges.

Do all practise it? If you claim you're there and yet you don't believe. Are there not others like you as well.

Yet they are givers, spending their last dime on the church for all kinds of programs, yet their finances are in a terrible shape.

You can't speak for another person. Faith will always produce result. If a man gives by faith ,he will have result. Except the bible is not true.

I am not saying giving is wrong. It is good. But that is not all Christ preached about and he didn't condition God's blessings on how much we can give.

So have I said otherwise? We are already blessed, but your giving creates atmosphere to recieve.

He didnt tell anyone that if they gave black and white tv, he would get a plasma.

So who's talking about plasma , we don't recieve by arithmetic. But there's RECIEVING for a giving.  You won't have harvest if you don't sow. It's a principle .That's the point.

Luke 6:38
38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

He preached love, which would spur you to give according to what you decide in your heart, and not out of necessity or target (of the church or pastor).

So who says other wise? Everybody give without a gun on their head. Can someone force you to give? You give for yourself, and if you don't give, who loses? But if you don't have to give today, God sees your heart , if you desire to give , you will have .

And he chooses who to bless because he sees the heart. That's why Christ picked the widow who gave her last mite out of the thousands giving in the synagogue on the day he visited.

He chose her because she gave the most! . That was a dangerous sacrifice . She gave God everything ,without wondering what to eat next. That's faith!

If it was CE, the widow would not even be noticed. It's all those giving in 'millions' who catch the fancy of the pastor. And they actually get rewarded with awards at the end of the year for their giving. CE looks at the Church record,

That's why I said you're not a member. Because pastor chris teaches otherwise. He even address pastors to be careful not to judge a man by his seed. Because that person may just be giving his last dime by faith.

but God looks at the heart. I used to joke with my wife that if I stole my organisation's money and gave it to the church, that I will definitely get several awards at IPPC. Reason is that the church would see a brother giving millions, while God will see a thief. Who should I please? God or the Church?

You're definately an outsider. Youve just exposed yourself. How can you be so carnal in your imagination. Of course  you may win award if that's your focus. But nemesis will catch up with you. Some have tried it and we saw what happened.If you dont be I've in the teaching and structure of CEC, why not find your place. Instead of being in the limbo .

March man:
@joagbaje. I am also a member of CE but I don't deify Pastor Chris

Has anyone said otherwise but I doubt your membership.

He is but a man with all our flaws. So it is not everything that comes out of his mouth that is the gospel. So I make God the focus of my worship and not the priest. Then I reject the prosperity gospel that is the foundation of the church. I think this fuels greed and not genuine love for God. It is about what's in
It for me.

I really  doubt your membership. Because you don't even understand the ministry. The focus u
Is Jesus , eternal life,new creation. God life at work in us. How many times have you heard pastor chris on tv teaching money money money. He teaches on the life in the spirit. Money matter is only once in a long while.

If I give a prado jeep, what will God give me? This is not what Christ or Paul preached. It is not about self, or what God will give us. But most people in CE get this wrong. Their desire to give is driven by what they hope to get. This makes God seem like an investment banker, looking out to bless people that have given(sown). This is not God. It Is Mormon!

You are wrong,I doubt if you're a member of CEC except you're new or not very committed.  We give as a way of life. We give to meet needs, and we get blessed. We don't give prado to get a hummer. When I gave the prado, I began drive a bus without a/c . For some months. I'm teaching truth here .A giver must recieve. I'm presently using a jeep wrangler, Its even a deeper life member that was led to give me. I recieve strange things. This things looks crazy but that's the life we live  The I can't deny the power of giving. This truths works for anyone who believes. There are things God has ordained you to get free. If you don't practice giving ,They may not come. If a man does not give he is missing a lot.  . Somebody is making noise over 30 jeeps . Just 30 jeep not even a jet . ? Will you blame a man for what he receives? Does he know how pastor chris gives . Why not do your own giving.

Then Joagbaje if you gave a car, how come you are boasting about it here?

We were discussing the benefit of sowing seed in a thread , so it was inline  it was an illustration.

Are you not aware that the left hand should not know what the right has given? Well according to the bible, you have already gotten your reward.

That has to do with motive. It's only God that sees the motive of the heart .didn't Jesus talk about how he fed 5,000.? If the motive is for the praise of men,that praise is all we get,but if the motive is to give glory to God. Nothing wrong with it.Didn't paul talk about how he laboured more than other apostles? It depends the motive.

1 Corinthians 15:10
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

. . . , Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles, might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost (Romans 15:15-16).

There’re certain Christians who often feel unqualified or not worthy to be used of God or to receive the Holy Spirit. They feel they’re too unholy for a holy God. So you hear them say: “I don’t think I can receive the Holy Spirit; at least not today. My life has been really terrible and I think I should settle matters first with God before I ask Him for the Holy Spirit.” What people haven’t understood is that you can’t please God without the Holy Spirit. You need the Holy Spirit in your life to be able to live right.

His presence in your life purifies you and sanctifies whatever offerings or obligations you render to God. Our prayers for example are only acceptable to God when we offer them to Him through the Spirit. Our human languages are too impure for God. They contain words we use for everyday dealings and communications – too mundane and impure for a holy God!

The Bible tells us that the Lord Jesus offered Himself as a sacrifice to God on account of our sins, through the Spirit to be accepted of God: “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscious from dead works to serve the living God” (Hebrews 9:14). If Jesus, the precious Son of God who was on earth to carry out God’s eternal will, would present Himself to God through the Spirit to be accepted, it therefore means that God wouldn’t require any less of us!

How imperative it is for us to receive the Holy Spirit and be yielded to His influence and guidance at all times! His presence in you and upon you purifies your entire life, and everything you do for the Lord.

Prayer

Dear Father, thank you for purifying me through and through by your Spirit who lives in me and abides with me; thus making my offerings, devotions and ministry acceptable to you. I’m grateful for this immense blessing and privilege, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Further Study

1 Peter 1:1-2
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God

italo:
@Joagbaje,
And there's more than an indication that Onesiphorus was dead

Because Paul speaks of Onesiphorus only in the past tense,

The man definately was not in Pauls vicinity as at that time . Probably travelled or something. There is no indication of death. Even if he was dead, it still doesn't justify your claim. There different levels of reward in heaven. Heaven itself is nit a reward. If you're born again you automatically becomes an "heaven" man. Is  Being a Nigerian a reward? . You're born into it. We are born from above.

Philippians 3:20
20 We, however, are citizens of heaven. We look forward to the Lord Jesus Christ coming from heaven as our Savior.

So paul prayed for mercy for Onesiphorus, I don't want to believe you are insinuating that Paul was praying for Onesiphorus to have a greater reward,  Because, firstly, there no indication of that;

A reward is given for a work done. Those of us who serve the master in soul winning,and every other work of service have reward for it. Some have more rewards others have less. Yet some will have no reward at all. But they will still be saved
.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Some will recieve a crown some will recieve many crown some will have no crown. Jesus talked about the greatest  in the kingdom. Great ,greater,greatest . These are levels .

secondly, what mercy could you wish for one who already has eternal life?

Eternal life is on earth ,not in heaven. It is now and here a man has to recieve eternal life.

1 John 5:11-13
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

If you don't have it now, you can not have it in heaven.

Frosbel is a good example of pride

1 Timothy 6:4
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

Evil Brain:
Speaking in tongues is clearly gibberish. The tongues don't follow any of the universal rules that govern all human language. It has no discernible structure, syntax or vocabulary and if you pay attention in church,

You are correct! To a carnal man that is what it is. It is not mans language. There are different levels of praying in the spirit. The Pentecost day was only a beginning . Paul taught on deeper experience. Do you know you can even groan and yet, it's a form of praying in the spirit. Look at the scripture below and tell me what you make of it.

Romans 8:26
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

MrBible:
[size=13pt]Ok Mr Joagbaje make we try power. Me I don't speak in tongues,

How sad. when you receive the infilling ,you will realise what you've been missing.

but I can take up serpents;

How does that edify you. What benefit is it. Zoology students will do that without God.

I can lay hands on any sick person in the hospital and they will recover

Have you?

What can you acheive with your false speaking in tongues [/size]

Proverbs 23:9
9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.

144,000 you mean? The bible didn't say only 144,000 will goto heaven . Rather they are the elect from the 12 tribes of isreal. The Christians would have reached heaven before this event. Besides there will still be billions of others from different nations of the world. Making it 3 different groups. The saints, the 144,000 and the many many other people.

frosbel:
New tongues means new languages not new gibberish !!!

It is both.  There is the stammering gibberish there is another Tongue. Both are manifestations of the spirit.

Isaiah 28:11
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.


The "gibberish" is used to talk to God. The another Tongue talks to men.

"These miraculous signs will accompany those who believe: They will cast out demons in my name, and they will speak in new languages." - Mark 16:17

1 Corinthians 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Don't condemn a man because you don't agree with his revelation. Is it possible to marry without dating? yes. What dating did Isaac have with rebekah ? Is there dating in the bible ? Besides some people use this dating thing for wrong doing. So you have to know the mans perspective.

jayriginal:
I can speak in tongues at will too. It takes very little effort however, I cant drink poisons neither will I play with snakes. Can you ?

If I answer you ,some people will jump on my case that I'm boasting. So leave me out of it. Let's take the word of God for what it says. Christianity is not complete without the infilling of the holyghost.

Every christian ought to recieve the holyghost and speak in tongues.

Mark 16:17
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

^^^
God embedded giving into the structure of the life of people in the bible days. When they neglected the givings, they began to suffer .The farmer was not allowed Even though they work and labour. The primary way to recieve is by giving. That's what crowns very other thing.

Pastor Kun:
Pastor chris does not have a house Yet you come here and brag about how wealthy he is,

Being rich is different from materialism. He is rich,and he use it for the gospel all over the world and  the world Cant deny that dude.I never boast about that . pastor chris taught us not to move into a big house until our present house is full of people.

you must really think we are fools on NL.

You're given people enough reason to believe so. See what you're doing at your age.

You are dead to cars and material things yet everybody on NL knows you drive a (claimed) 2010 prado

Correction , I gave a prado as a seed . (Kunle collapses )

and you use an I phone and a blackberry,

Stop being petty like a teenager . Whats in iphone and blackberry? . They are just necessities. What phone do you recommend?  You forgot to add my iPad .(Kunle faints again)

Get a life old man.

Pastor Kun:
I got the pic from a cec member who was bragging about how many Jeeps Oyaks has scammed off his gullible congregation.

To start with, pastor chris does not have a house. Besides your information is wrong. We don't have boast in cars. We are dead to cars or any material thing of this life. Does pastor chris drive ? Where is he driving to? And what if he owns all the cars? What is your own bisnes?

nlMediator:
Obedience? Thought you insisted the other time that christians have no business with obedience?

We were talking about being blessed on account of obedience as a condition. Weve been blessed already .That's the problem of jumping on a matter one side of the coin without asking proper questions. Read that thread again. Few days after that thread I still posted a teaching on obedience by pastor chris.

That aside, I'd like to know where the Scriptures say that the primary road to wealth is giving and that the other things you mentioned are important but secondary.

The principle of giving and receiving ran from genesis to revelation. It's a principle. God embedded it in the culture and structure if the old testsment . It's a principle for the church as well.

Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ (2 Corinthians 2:14).

For some people, life is full of “ups and downs.” The reason they think this way is because of their ignorance of the Word. When you have the clear understanding of who you are as new creation in Christ, you’d realize that you were born a champion. You can live each and every day of your life in victory over every situation. Yours is the life of continual victory. The death of Jesus on the Cross, and His triumphant resurrection made us one with Him, and brought us into the transcendent life. It’s a daily life of blessings, miracles, signs and wonders.

The Bible says about Jesus, that God

“…raised Him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come” (Ephesians 1:20-21).

Then, in Ephesians 2:5-6, referring to us – the new creation, the Bible says He has

“…raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus”
(Ephesians 2:5-6). The story doesn’t end with Jesus alone; God has also raised you up together with Christ and made you sit together with Him in the realms of glory.

You’re seated right in the place of divine authority and power; and so victory for you is a day-to-day experience. The Bible says

“greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world”

(1 John 4:4). So go forth today and win, for you’ve been called into the life of unending victory and success.

Prayer

Dear Father, I declare that through faith in your living Word I’m making progress in my life and excelling in every endeavour. I thank you for making me a champion in life and choosing me to live a life of victory, progress and success every day, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Further Study
1 Corinthians 15:57
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

 

@ HISchild

HISchild:
@ Joagbaje, there are no such grounds for which GOD allows divorce.

There are several reason by which divorce may take place.For example  If the woman left of her own accord . Especially if they don't have the same faith, the man can divorce her. some women left their husbands when he gets called into ministry. a woman who did such  once said "it was a doctor I married not a pastor" she got angry that he left his medical profession for ministry work.

1 Corinthians 7:15
15 But if the unbelieving partners leave, let them go. Under these circumstances a Christian man or Christian woman is not bound by a marriage vow. God has called you to live in peace.

nlMediator:
What I'm saying is that contrary to your claim, giving is not the way out of poverty. The bible teaches no such thing. And there is no evidence from the life of wealthy people in the Bible and on earth today that giving was their way out of poverty or into wealth. Any pastor that believes that message should be prepared to demonstrate that it is true by looking at the lives of the givers in his church. If people have sat under a pastor's teaching for years and are constant givers to that church - as the church records would show - and are still not wealthy, then that message is not true. Or how else can we prove the truth of the message? By hearing the pastors testimonies about his own life - when his wealth can easily be explained outside of giving?

The prinary principle by which we can recieve is through our givings. Some other factoes can work against it also. Laziness , wastefulness, foolishness. Lack of wisdom ,lack of faith. Several things work together as regard the prosperity of Christians. Giving creates An atmosphere for you to receive . You cant speak for another man. Because you dont know his heart. But other things work along side. Faith, knowledge, confessions etc . Then there are things that can block miracles also. Sin, umbelief etc. So all work together. We have to fulfil all obedience .