₦airaland Forum

That's funny because the early church was a growing church.ministry is of the holyghost. We may not find everything in black and White but the principles would be there. Falling down has always been a work of the holy spirit .

Mark 9:20
20 And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground. .

ogajim:
Pastor JoAgbaje will soon come to defend this pastor, if that was my child in Nigeria, that would have been his last.

I know that unproductive people like you take delights in such stories, that's what you relax with. Why don't you rather spend time to read testimonies of salvation in churches , testimony of transformation of life through the gospel. Since people like you have nothing to contribute to Gods kingdom . It will be worthwhile for for that way instead of eatin pop corn reading and spreading evil report about churches.

. . . For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost (Matthew 18:11).

T.L Osborn once made a striking statement during a conference many years ago, as he reviewed the spiritual condition of China. He was concerned about the millions of people in that nation at the time who didn’t know Jesus. As he ministered, it got to a point his voice broke, and addressing the young people in the congregation, he said, “Young people, may God make China beautiful to you.” I was touched by what he said. It got me thinking, and then I realized that really, until God makes the sinners beautiful to you, and you see their true value, you may never be able to reach them with the love of Christ.

It’s like the story of Michelangelo who went into a shop and saw a stone. The shop keeper said, “Nobody wants that stone. Why are you interested in it?” But the famous Renaissance sculptor replied, “I see an angel in the stone.” He saw what he could make out of a stone, and till date, he’s celebrated for creating the world’s marble wonder – the famous statue of David. I pray that God will open your eyes to see the beauty in the sinners around you.

Think for a moment, how one who was as injurious as Saul of Tarsus, could become such a wonderful apostle of Christ! Imagine the vast potentials for the Gospel that would have been lost had God not intervened to get him converted. It’s important that you look beyond the deeds of the unsaved around you and consider what they could become through the power of the Gospel. See the beauty in them and their potential greatness, for the Word of God has the ability to transform any life.

This kind of thinking would motivate you to preach the Gospel to every sinner. Remember, you’re the custodian of eternal verities. God has invested so much in you and has made you His partner in reaching others. You’re His steward of the Gospel message; and that’s the only message that can bring salvation to the sinner. So reach out today and bless your world with the message of Christ’s salvation.

Prayer
Dear Father, thank you for making me a custodian of the Gospel message, the only message that can save the sinner, and bring them into eternal life. I rejoice to know that you’ve counted me faithful and worthy to commit this blessed Gospel into my trust. I’m enabled by your Spirit to take the Gospel to the unsaved around me today in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Further Study
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek

frosbel:
I have been to so many churches and currently attend a non-denominational church , only loosely, because so many churches are involved in one way or the other with these false doctrines.

If all churches are wrong , you should rather check yourself. . What you call false doctrine may really not be false.

rezzy:
The money collected was not for the pastor, its for the church. Why call the pastor a fraud? That prayer might be from the leading of the holyspirit.

That's my point. But people rush here with half truth to gullible readers any nonsense to rubbish the pastoral ministry.

frosbel:
^^^
ah , you are calling a man of GOD who follows GOD with all his heart an ignorant man.

It's not insult. He is a sincere man , but he's only working by the litle information he has. If I sit with him for an hour and I believe his language will change. It's just a problem of religious spirit that's all.

What will you then say for the prosperity pimps and celebrity christian pastors ? Are they not also very ignorant

I don't know about celebrity pastor whatever that means. Don't you believe in christian prosperity? Prosperity or poverty which one is Gods will? .

nlMediator:
I'm not sure they need a specific word from God. The Word of Prophecy - Bible - is sufficiently clear on that. They should not shirk their responsibility and hide under "God did not tell me". I'm sure they do not apply such standard to many other things they speak out on or require action from others.

What the "THE WORD OF PROPHECY " admonishes us to do is to pray for rulers . Not to judge or condemn them. But some ministers have anointing to be a voice to or against government. Like Elijah ,John, Jeremiah etc.
Its not every minister that has such ministry . If you doubt it why don't you do it yourself ? .

frosbel:
[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89HGjhl0Kvg?version=3&hl=en_US[/flash]

I dont know why I should be shocked by the myopic view  of an ignorant man.even though he has I good sincere heart. Those who like to criticise the ministry of others should learn to ask themselves "what if I'm wrong in my judgement"? . They should find out the reasons why others do what they do. Supposing you are ignorant of the principles and revelation by which they do what they do? . Have you found out from them to know their passion and convictions?. Supposing they were once like you, and probably passed through the phase you're passing now. Supposing they have ,more information which you lack. Wise man will ask questions about others first than judging them by assumption.

mummy3:
I saw a mad man lying dead on the road, what came to my mind was, where could he be now (heaven or hell).

He didn't have a law to have sin against. But if he was not born insane. He will be judged by the level of truth he was exposed to before he became mad.

OYINBOGOJU:
Samuel told Saul- You have acted foolishly!
How many present day pastors will say this to Jonathan?
Pastors indeed!

Any pastor who God sends with such message can tell the president

mummy3:
I saw a mad man lying dead on the road, what came to my mind was, where could he be now (heaven or hell).

He didn't have a law to have sin against. But if he was not born insane. He will be judged by the level of truth he was exposed to before he became mad.

So called Jinnie are nothing but DEMONS .

MrBible:
[size=13pt]Instead I have kept my blessing, my money which I prophesied on will work for me and not the pastor [/size]

See your umbelief, did the visiting pastor ask for the money for himself? That means you don't even give offerings again. Since your not sure where it goes .

nodogma:
There is a saying that one of the most religious places on earth is a prison.  This means that after people have done much wrong, they seem to find religion.  Whether it is sincere or not, who knows.  However, the question becomes, are Christians held accountable for their wrong actions.  Everyone knows the bible verse of reaping and sowing.  There was a story in the paper about a man who stole millions from his parents among other things.  He squandered the money and soon after claimed to become a Christian.  He shows no remorse for what he did and he says God has wiped the log of these sins away.  Many think that when they become born again the slate becomes clean.  This would be an unjust thing for a just God to do and really there would be no reason to be a good person.  So, the question is, are Christians held accountable for their actions and how are they held accountable?

If a man genuinely repents of a fault , he is wiped clean , no matter  how bad . That is grace. There is nothing we can do about it.

2 Corinthians 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So all these scriptures you quoted , where does it says falling under the power is imitation.or of the devil Didn't Jesus make people fall under the power?

John 18:6
6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

It's a spiritual problem , they moss out of what God is doing at that time. Another thing is that the flesh does not like spiritual things. So those who are in the flesh sleeps . They have to learn to take charge of their bodies by the spirit . It is spiritual indiscipline.

Matthew 26:40
40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter,. . . the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

You don lose your blessing . It's your flesh talking , not the holy spirit .

frosbel:
In the prosperity gospel, also known as the “Word of Faith,

Thats your own definition . You got it all wrong. There is no prosperity gospel. There is only one gospel and it's a gospel of prosperity.  Prosperity's a state of wellbeing Spirit soul and body.A state of dominion over the works of the enemy. Sin ,sickness, poverty ,failure and demonic oppression. A christian is called into a blessing. It simply means to walk in your inheritance in God.

3 John 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

” the believer is told to use God,whereas the truth of biblical Christianity is just the opposite—God uses the believer.

Nobody teaches such nonsense . We are only hearing it from you. We exist for God. Not the other way round.

Word of Faith or prosperity theology sees the Holy Spirit as a power to be put to use for whatever the believer wills. The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is a Person who enables the believer to do God's will.

You need to differentiate between the person of the holy spirit and the anointing of the holy spirit.  Power is given to a believer to function in the will of God. You can put the power to work at will. Didn't you hear paul say there should be no prophecies more than 2 or 3 in a service. Is it possible to shut the holy spirit down? You answer .for yourself. Why not research before criticising.

1 Corinthians 14:32
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.


This means we can direct or control the manifestation of the spirit. It is different from controling the holy spirit .

frosbel:
"While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape." - 1 Thessalonians 5:3


I am for world peace but not at the expense of Truth.

It is very apparent that the majority of the world do not abide in the doctrine of Christ , and therefore as far as Muslims keep following false prophet Muhammad, Buddhists keep following Buddha and Hindus keep following their over a million gods , and of course the Atheist continue in their folly , World peace will NEVER be achieved.

But the good news brethren is that the day is coming when we shall dwell in a new Heaven and new Earth wherein dwells righteousness ( Not virgins and milk as promised in Islam ) and peace and Joy in the Holy Ghost.

Then there shall be absolute peace, for the wicked with their leader SATAN shall be removed from the presence of God for ever, Amen.

True ,there Cant be real peace until the whole world embrace the PRINCE OF PEACE. Every discussion for peace is a temporal treatment of symptoms but it won't kill the virus.

Falling on the face is a conscious act of worship.but falling under he anointing or being slain in the spirit is not a coscious act , but rather an experience. That is, a person falls down by the reason of the power of God going through his body, some never knew what happened until they were being picked up, others experience an electricity kind of flow which makes their legs give way.

This is one of the many many manifestations of the holy spirit, in the life of those who know him.

InesQor:
Hi Joagbaje, hope your weekend is rolling out fine.

Glory to God sir.

I am interested. Kindly outline what is wrong about the OP.

Froebel is not the holy spirit to tell people to leave a church . That's a dangerous counsel. Ok let's take the first part of his post for example .

If your Church is married to the State; supporting, promoting, praising and serving your nation or government, run

Past president and present president had been attending functions in redeemed church. The president even knelt down to be prayed for openly. And the presidency invites some of them to aso rock . Now according to Frosbel , people should flee from redeemed . Isn't that a dangerous counsel? . Is anything wrong in church partnering with government? Would you rather prefer church being persecuted and hiding to worship God? If the church is respected by government that is a form of successs. That is influence . I would rather prefer an influecial church that has a voice to a weak powerless church.

No no man has the right to tell people to leave a church because you dont agree with what the church believes . If there should be any movement ,That's the work of the holy spirit . The fact that someone doesn't agree with a church structure doesn't mean it is wrong.

There could have been some element of truth in some things Frosbel wrote , but you don't give a blanket counsel. You have to deal with a matter on it's own.

Nothing is wrong with a Pastor speaking well of government , Nothing is wrong with a pastor beingp close to government.(that's Influence)

There is more than one judgement .which one are you talking about ? The one for Christians or the one for the world.

This is a wrong counsel

dare2think:
What if this "mighty" pastor is not fit to counsel.  What if the pastor is going through his/her marital problems or has been caught abusing his position of trust? What do they do then?
If you depend on Man, your disappointments knows no bound.

A pastor counsels by the anointing and by the word.Not by personal experience or perfection. A coach doesn't have to be an Olympic medalist to make you one. Why was Moses judging Israel? Why did the people go to him? Was he perfect? Yet the oracle of shod was in his mouth. Why don't they settle it by themselves ? Ask yourself. You guys have so much portrayed the pastoral ministry as money making venture that you have lost the definition of the office.

A pastor is ordained to feed the sheep with the knowledge of truth, he is a guide and a guard ,  That's what God has made that office to be . The oracle of God is in his mouth. If he can't counsel people about their life ,what is his ministry about then? What's he doing there?

JeSoul:
Honestly. How can someone say with a straight face and right hand on the bible, that it is the pastor who 'has the final say'(with the weight & subsequent implications of such a phrase) in what happens between a husband & wife? It is just so wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start  
Lol. Constructively rude is good . . . my own would have been missing the 'constructive' part.

You can go ahead and say the rude things , after all worst things have been said by the people you hold in high esteem here. I wonder what kind of God they believe in.

But I will still like to make my point if you care . The pastor has the final say because he stands in an office and power is vested on him by the virtue of that office. If two Christians have conflicts either in the home or business the church has a judicial  structure . And the word of God is presented to the parties. The person who is wrong according to scriptures ought to take it that way. But if he would not listen to the pastor or the church authority , then he can be treated as an enemy . That's what the bible teaches. The authority of the pastor is according to the Word of God. So long as he takes stand With Gods Word .

1 Corinthians 6:1-6
1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

OLAADEGBU:
All Peter was refering to here was Noah's Flood, you can check other verses where Peter spoke about the Flood.

The flood of Noah did not affect the heavens or galaxies but the pre adamite flood of lucifer did. In addition ,all the places where the flood of noah was refered to,they usually put noah's name there . As peter would do in his writings

mabell:
Ehen! but what about the little or new born babies that have not started giving, do they have angels as well or they don'y deserve it yet

Everybody has angles. And more angels can be added from heaven based on our responsibilities . Just as demons are added in the dark kingdom.
But one thing is having  angels , another thing is to really enjoy or experience their ministry. There are angels for healing, protection, and for ministry etc.  As we walk in the Word, we experience their ministry . But a rebellious person and those in the flesh hardly experience the ministry of angels. That's why some Christians die  in accidents etc. "why couldnt the angels protect them?

There are things we need to do to put angels to work. There are things we do that can hinder them from working for us.


Psalms 34:7
7 The angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.

proxies:
Was the bible written before the birth or after the death of Jesus , Answer with reasons

All are correct.

OLAADEGBU:
You mean to say that you had to compromise so as to be in harmony with fallible and sinful evolutionists?

It is not a compromise , it is truth. Dinosaurs dates millions of years. We can't deny that .

Jeremiah was a prophet who saw judgment in future events and compared it with the formlessness and emptiness of the earth at the beginning of creation and this only suggest the extent of God's judgment that was to come.

The earth will never be empty. Judgement to come will not empty the earth. Look at it again .

Jeremiah 4:23-25
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. 24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

Jeremiah was not saying that the state of the earth then was a result of God's judgment on it. And as for Peter, I do not have to tell you that he was referring to Noah's Flood.

The flood of Noah only affected the earth . The flood Peter refers to here affected heaven and earth . The only time something like that happened was in the pre adamite world.

Have you wondered why most scientific discovery of those fossil claim that a flood must have destroyed them millions of years ?

. . .Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments; As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore. (Psalms 133:1-3).

As a child of God you’re a member of God’s family, and it’s expedient for you to find your place in God’s house and contribute meaningfully. Now, in your bid to function in the house of God, you may join certain activity groups, cells or teams where you work alongside other believers. If you’re in such teams, learn to be a team player. Always communicate with the rest of the team in such a way that lets them know you’re in agreement with them. If for any reason you’re not in agreement, express it in love so there will be no contention. Don’t assume they should know; always speak up and never let disunity persist.

When we dwell together in unity as believers God commands the blessing, even life forever more (Psalms 133). Therefore, be quick and apt to project unity because it produces power. In Genesis 11, we see how the whole world had one language and everyone functioned in unity. When they decided to build a tower that would reach into the heavens, God said

, “Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do” (Genesis 11:6).

This lets us know how much power there is in unity, and how much we can achieve for the Kingdom if we learn to work together. We must therefore learn to put our differences aside and pursue the Master’s vision with singleness of purpose. Our passion and pursuit must be to see that the whole earth is covered with the knowledge of God’s Word as the waters cover the sea. We must stand in one spirit, with one mind, and strive together for the faith of the Gospel (Philippians 1:27).

Prayer
Dear Father, thank you for making me a member of the greatest family ever – the family of God! I walk worthy of the vocation wherewith I’m called, with all submissiveness and meekness, forbearing with my fellow brothers and sisters in love, and endeavouring to keep unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Further Study
1 Corinthians 12:12
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

Ephesians 4:1-3
I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Evil Brain:
You have an overly high opinion of pastors. I've dealt with dozens of couples with marital problems, many of whom have since gotten divorced, and I can't think of a single case where talking to a pastor helped in any significant way. In my experience, they are just as likely to make things worse by making tactless and re.tarded statements or by taking sides.

Personally I feel that the main factor in determining whether or not a couple should divorce should be the interests of the children, not any religious mumbo jumbo. You should generally try and save the marriage if you can. But if the marital tensions are creating a negative home environment for the kids or if the other partner is abusive, you should definitely divorce. If you don't have kids and you can't fix the marriage, get a divorce.

You could always ask for forgiveness later.

Many people  don't understand pastoral ministry ,that is why. You are giving counsel of the flesh. It is dangerous . Are you aware that some marital problems could be demonic? .  And if you dont get that devil out of whoever the problem will not stop.

Some women or men have ,these spirit husbands and spirit wife.  I have dealt with many cases like that. Such people will always fight over nothing. Anger will be extreme and other matters like that.

But apart from spiritual problem . There is a problem of ignorance also.  Ignorance of the word of God and ignorance of family duty or responsibility. That is why many churches have protocols such as marriage classes  which intending couple should under go. But many people fight against it as though church is making marriage difficult with so much protocols.

The pastor has the final say . That's the bible for you sir. The church has it's own structure ordained by God in redo ing conflicts.

Matthew 18:15-17
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

You can see here that it is only if a man refuse pastoral judgement that he can be handled otherwise .