₦airaland Forum

I prefer silent prayers. 

I prefer silent prayers. 

nuclearboy:
James is NOT talking about works saving anybody! He says that the proof that "faith" has saved you is the "works" that you do.

Devils believe in Jesus! At least we read of one who called Jesus the Holy one of God. Are they saved? No, because their works are darkness!
You claim you believe. Are you saved? Yes, IF YOUR WORKS ARE LIGHT. But if your works are "darkness", then you are not saved!

This is so simple and you cannot say you do not understand this ^^

Duplicity here is quite simple - you use words when they favor you and dismiss them when they seem NOT to favor your current position. For that reason, anyone reading you shifting the goal posts would notice the duplicity - its so obvious and it makes you look "funny"! Read "funny" as cunning and devious!

aletheia:
@Enigma: that link really exposes Joagbaje's mindset and duplicity.

aletheia:
^If only you would let go of your presuppositions concerning James and really look at the verses I posted; you will see that Phil 2:12 is similar to the other verses.

The confusion arises because we often fail to make the distinction between the "works of the Law" and the "works of faith"- a distinction that goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden. No man is justified or saved by the works of the Law, but all believers are commanded to bring forth works in keeping with faith. That is what both Paul and James wrote. And if you had completed the quote from Philippians, the full picture emerges:
"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

Enigma:
Meanwhile, listen to the James that the ignorant Pasiiitor Joagbaje claims was advocating Judaism/the Jewish law:

James 2:10
Does that sound like a man advocating the law; a man who knows no one can keep all the law and therefore is saying everyone trying to keep the law is guilty of all ----- because everyone will most probably offend in one point?

Enigma:
Just because some of Joagbaje's writing pisses me off so much:

As I said above if there is something good to gain or some apparent profit, Joagbaje will support the person ---- he will even support the James that he is villifying here if James can be used/twisted to support his greed or delusion. See both Joagbaje's duplicity and delusional folly in full flow on the thread in following link: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-393635.0.html

Here he quotes James for support: 

And again . . .

Now to his delusions:
(From one of the posts above citing James for support) 
(It seems he also meant Isaiah here; it doesn't matter though as he has deliberately and specifically said same of Elijah, Moses and others elsewhere)
The idea that a person who says these kind of things is a pastor is rather daft! Even dafter however is that some people are following him and looking up to him!

The idea that a person who says these kind of things is a pastor is rather daft! Even dafter however is that some people are following him and looking up to him!Lord'a'mercy!

Enigma:
Just because some of Joagbaje's writing pisses me off so much:

As I said above if there is something good to gain or some apparent profit, Joagbaje will support the person ---- he will even support the James that he is villifying here if James can be used/twisted to support his greed or delusion. See both Joagbaje's duplicity and delusional folly in full flow on the thread in following link: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-393635.0.html

Here he quotes James for support: 

And again . . .

Now to his delusions:
(From one of the posts above citing James for support) 
(It seems he also meant Isaiah here; it doesn't matter though as he has deliberately and specifically said same of Elijah, Moses and others elsewhere)
The idea that a person who says these kind of things is a pastor is rather daft! Even dafter however is that some people are following him and looking up to him!

The idea that a person who says these kind of things is a pastor is rather daft! Even dafter however is that some people are following him and looking up to him!Lord'a'mercy!

Sagamite:
Bible Quoters!
Ok, show me the part in the bible that says a pastor must make this comfort (or rather excesses) you highlighted from the flock.

Show me the part of the bible that says the pastor must live a better life than the congression, a life sourced from congregation

Tudór:
And to think this Oyedepo basterd is laughing in luxury here while my friend in Covenant University who just lost his father recently is gonna be kicked out of school in his final year just because he cannot afford the fees no more. So sad.

This is not the first time such is happening as A student has been sent packing in his final year second semester coz he couldnt pay fees. Shame

KunleOshob:
^^^
I am sure the fraudster would be laffing with the other side of his face on judgement day, let him enjoy the scam while it last.

aletheia:
@Joagbaje:
Let's examine this statements of yours by the light of scripture ^Why is "apostle to the gentiles" an understatement? What scripture underpins this assertion?
"The apostle for the church" What does this mean? You try to paint a picture of Paul single-handedly establishing God's church. What were the other Apostles doing? What do the scriptures say?
Ephesians 2:20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Be careful. Your eisegesis is leading you invent fanciful tales and confabulations that have no basis in the Bible.

You seem to be pointedly ignoring these verses that clearly show that James and Paul were both preaching the same consistent message:Matt 5:16. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Acts 9:36. Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.
2 Cor 9:8. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
Colossians 1:10. That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
2 Tim 3:17. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Titus 2:7. In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
Titus 2:14. Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Titus 3: 18. This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

^Apart from all the other verses from Paul's letters, look closely at the last verse above; FAITH(they which have believed in God)=>WORKS(be careful to maintain good works).

Turns out Paul and James were not so different after all.
Why don't you show us how the verses by Paul differ from those by James?

Pastor AIO:
[size=16pt]OLODO[/size]

Image123:
What was written in Acts 15 was not just James' idea but the Holy Ghost(God)'s idea. We should learn to differentiate God's command from man's. Like i've said earlier, james and paul were saying the same thing, and complementing/completing not contradicting/competing with one another.
Was it james that wrote 1Corinthians 10v21?
21. You CANNOT drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: you CANNOT be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
You think what's in Acts 15 is kindergarten stuff? Well maybe Jesus is kindergarten as well, and you're the graduate who just finished service right?
Revelation 2v20 20.Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Image123:
Guy, i also love Paul. You know he's 'the apostle to the gentiles', for God's sake. But you just flattering him. He never claimed these things. The church existed and was doing fine when Paul was still busy breathing threatenings. Paul had strong meat but nobody except you said that it was too strong for the apostles to chew. Listen to Peter.
2Peter 3v15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul ALSO according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 AS ALSO in all his epistles, speaking in them of THESE THINGS; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
It's easy to see who was uneasy with Paul's writing, it wasn't an apostle.

#2. Did you or did you not claim that James and Paul taught two different gospels?

aletheia:
^ Please address the issues.
#1. Did you or did you not claim that James taught that Christians must be circumcised?
#2. Did you or did you not claim that James and Paul taught two different gospels?

There are two kinds of proselyte:
Ger tzedek (righteous proselytes, proselytes of righteousness, religious proselyte, devout proselyte)
Ger toshav (resident proselyte, proselytes of the gate, limited proselyte, half-proselyte)
A righteous proselyte[5] was a Gentile who had converted to Judaism, was bound to all the doctrines and precepts of the Jewish economy, and was considered a full member of the Jewish people. They were to be circumcised and immersed in a mikvah should they wish to eat of the Passover sacrifice. A gate proselyte[6] was a "resident alien" who lived in the Land of Israel and followed some of the customs. They were not required to be circumcised nor to comply with the whole of the Torah. They were bound only to conform to the seven precepts of Noah, the Noahide Laws: do not worship idols, do not blaspheme God's name, do not murder, do not commit immoral sexual acts, do not steal, do not tear the limb from a living animal, and do not fail to establish courts of justice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proselyte

#2. Did you or did you not claim that James and Paul taught two different gospels?

aletheia:
Joagbaje: why do you keep posting trash and lies? I pity the people that are under you as a pastor.This gets worse! What was Jesus' ministry? It was unique:
Matt 1:21. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
So this was family property that was inherited, passed on from father to son abi? The problem for you is that your own gospel is "food and drink gospel". Your god is your belly; that's why you make such astounding lying statements.

KJV: Romans 16:18. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
KJV: Philippians Chapter 3:18-19.
(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
^The same Acts 15 that you quoted so liberally from dismisses what you wrote above.
24. Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
^Where did I allege that you omitted fornication? Here is the post where I addressed these issues that you raised.^On that other thread you dismissed the commands as being "Law of Moses", while here you try to downgrade them to "requirements for half-proselytes". Same old tactic. Moreover where in Acts 19, does it distinguish between boy meets girl type of fornication and heathen worship with sex? Fornication is. . .fornication. So for you fornication is justifiable for Christians so long as it is the boy meets girl variety? Do you begin to see how unsustainable your eisegesis is? Those requirements predate Moses as you would know if you were acquainted with your bible as the Word of God rather than treating it as a financial manual.

I will ask you some questions.
#1. Where in James epistle do you find him advocating that new converts be circumcised? This was written by him, so it will be the clearest statement of his "doctrine"
#2. What is the difference between :
Paul who says here:
Gal 6:3-4. For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
And James who says also:
James 2:17-18. Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Or all these other verses:

Matt 5:16. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Acts 9:36. Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.
2 Cor 9:8. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
Colossians 1:10. That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
2 Tim 3:17. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Titus 2:7. In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
Titus 2:14. Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Titus 3: 18. This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

^Apart from all the other verses from Paul's letters, look closely at the last verse above; FAITH(they which have believed in God)=>WORKS(be careful to maintain good works). Turns out Paul and James were not so different after all.

Your confusion arises from not distinguishing between the works of the Law and the works of Faith; as the Bible so clearly does. Neither James nor Paul nor any other Apostle of Jesus taught that we are justified by the works of the Law but they taught that True Faith=>Works of Faith.

Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Hebrews 10: 23-24. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

chukwudi44:
@Joagbaje


Even Paul himself did not beleive in christianity at the very begining,so your post here makes no meaning.At least James converted before Paul

christianity did not exist until after the resurection of Jesus,so James could not have become a christian during JESUS 's lifetime.Everyone then including JESUS practised judaism.

Image123:
The scriptures you quoted doesn't say the above, except that you assume it. Are you really saying that James taught Peter to withdraw and seperate himself?Notice the scriptures below and carefully note the bolded.

Galatians 2:4-6
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: 5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. 6[b] But of these who seemed to be somewhat,( whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed[ to be somewhat] in conference added nothing to me:[/b]

nuclearboy:
Mehnnnnnnnn!

Joagbaje finally got his moment of Glory on NL but exclusively as a student. With everybody able to understand truth except for our resident pastor, one has no recourse but to wonder at the spiritual state of those taught by NL's seemingly favorite student.

Maybe NL ought to set up a school for christian toddlers (those without teeth AT ALL) and register Jo as its first student

KunleOshob:
@martian
Joagbaje is not a tithe paying member of christ embassy, he is actually a tithe collecting pastor of the sect and unlike the OP he seems to be very well rewarded by the church. However this might be due to the fact that he runs his own branch of CEC and is in direct control of the finances[tithes,offerings,first fruit, seed sowing, prophet's offering, partnership offering, building fund e.t.c] collected, thus he doesn't need to wait for any miserable salary if and when they decide to pay.

Enigma:
Pasiitor Joagbaje, again see your life outside!

As a pastor do you get paid or not?

kuzminki:
Joagbaje (m)
NIGERI  you talk  foolishly  ,you seem to be aggressive in nature even by writing

you did not deal with the fellows complain you are there judging .
if you were really a motivator you would have encouraged him,let the fellow see where he is wrong or right
that talk lots of trash.
you do not judge what you don't know fool.
any way my brother.
follow the word not the preacher.
the Bible is the standard of judgement
so do what is right

Enigma:
Pasiitor Joagbajeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On another thread you threw the scripture below at us when we debunked "tithing"; here you are now saying "workers" in church should not do it for pay! https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-497709.96.html#msg6635609
Do you see why we accuse you "pastors" of hypocrisy, double-standards and brain-washing of your flock?

Judaism also reached out to gentiles.  The pharisees reached out to gentile.  Where the difference between them and Paul was is that they expected the gentiles to then become fully jewish rather than bend judaism to accomodate the gentiles.  There were many gentiles attracted to judaism that didn't join because they didn't want to make the full commitment.  They formed an outer layer of the synagogues and were called the 'God-fearers'.  An example of such would be Cornelius in the book of acts.