₦airaland Forum

God has given us guidelines on how to test every spirit. But many are merely judging by their ignorance and experience.

babaearly:
Anyone who knows what Satan really is should let me know. if you've seen his face or something? is it real or its a conspiracy set up from religion?

Are you referring to experience with Satan , or what the bible says

TV01:
As much as you see fit to pronounce otherwise, God - who is afterall the creator of all - has instituted some things universally for all. Like rain for example. Marriage, parental authority/blessing are not limited or void if entered into by unbelievers, or non-believers for that matter.

There are general natural blessing upon all. We are dealing with activating spiritual blessing by prayer.

Secondly, God does not "set a pastor" over you and further, does not give said pastor any special anointing. IMHO.

Can you explain yourself further here, I want to understand you well before I respond to this.

KunleOshob:
A pastor is simply a sheperd.

This is the most amazing response from KunleOshob

toluxa1:
Wait! When you say Church, are you talking of the Local Congregation or the BODY OF BELIEVERS. Cos they are two different things o.

The Body of Christ of course.

TV01:
.
the divine ordinance of Marriage preceded the divine institution of church. But being a divine institution, marriage remains a cvil affair.

For the unsaved , fine , all they see is flesh, so it's a civil affair, but for the saints , we are crucified with Christ. Every aspect of your life. Your life is no longer your's

Malachi 2:15 (Living bible)
15 You were united to your wife by the Lord. In God's wise plan, when you married, the two of you became one person in his sight. And what does he want? Godly children from your union.

Malachi 2:15 (message bible)
15 GOD, not you, made marriage. His Spirit inhabits even the smallest details of marriage. And what does he want from marriage? Children of God, that's what.

And this explains why  !! Ah, ah,  @ Joagbaje, Foul, offside, handball and penarity all at once. Umpire, refereee and judge!!!!! How on earth would you even have the liver to openly pronounce such an unscriptural statement.
Ok, sorry. Please show me from scripture how the church is custodian;

All power is invested in the name of Jesus. He has given the church mandate in his name. Nobody can pray to God for another person without the name of Jesus. And you must be born again to use the name.  So the church is custodian of the name of christ. We have the right to use his name. Juju man can't bless in the name of Jesus.an unsaved man can't bless another person. The church is the pillar of truth.

@Kunleoshob,Toluxa,TV01

KunleOshob:
^^^
@joagbaje
Can you quote a single scripture (in proper context) that supports what you posted above?

That aside are you aware that there is no scriptural basis for church marriage, that it is only a tradition of men evolved from man's love for religion?

Your assertion is untrue.  Even in the Old testament, They were not allowed just to marry who they like, but from among their people who worship God. God rules the home.

Numbers 36:6
6 This[ is] the thing which the Lord doth command concerning the daughters of Zelophehad, saying, Let them marry to whom they think best; only to the family of the tribe of their father shall they marry.

1 Corinthians 7:39
39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

The ground on which israelites were not allowed to marry other nations was on the ground of faith. Not mere family ties. Because Israel was the only nation under God.The OT was a shaddow  of the NT.  In Christ , same thing obtains.

2 Corinthians 6:14-16
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in[ them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.


God has a say in who you marry and how you go about it. Because he has a purpose for the Christian marriage. It is not a family affair. It is a divine institution. He is looking for godly seed.

Malachi 2:15
15 And did not God make[ you and your wife] one[ flesh]? Did not One make you and preserve your spirit alive? And why[ did God make you two] one? Because He sought a godly offspring[ from your union].

The Christian children are godly seed, but the children of the unsaved are unholy.

TV01:
@Joagbaje, your response above to toluxa1 is indicative of the danger inherent in the self-arrogated authority - spiritual or otherwise - of "The Pastor". You are pronouncing marriages transacted outside church "unblessed" and inherently invalid and unsanctified.

I didn't say they are not valid. I said they are recognised by the church, But they don't command the blessing of God. The blessing of God can only come through the name of Jesus. The court does not have access to the name of jesus. If two people marry in the mosque or shrine, it doesn't command Gods blessing. But they are legally married. Marriage is a divine institution, not just social or family affair. God has purpose for marriage. We can't deny the fact that many people this days just see it as a legal contract . But it is unscriptural.

Marriage is an honourable estate, ordained and blessed by God. All things being equal, all it essentially needs is parental go-ahead to be blessed. Church has nothing to do with it,

Then you don't understand the church. All the blessing in God are in christ.

John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


It is only the name of Jesus that can commmand blessing , it is only the church that is the custodian of the name of Jesus.

TV01:
.

As ever you employ "cut and paste doctrine" and "cooked up cliché" to falsely assert an erroneous position. Which one is "Church Blessing"?

TV

Church blessing or marriage blessing is done for couples that have not been married in church: either they were cohabiting for years and needs to leigalise it.

Toluxa

toluxa1:
 parental authority is not spiritual authority. But pastoral authority is spiritual

The first bolded in nonsense.

We are dealing with adults,and not children under papa's care.By default, parents are supposed to be spiritual heads over the family in Israel, their case is different, because it was a nation under God. The headship in Israel were spiritual. Even the kingship. They were naturally spiritual head over the children. We are not under that system now. There is no national faith and national religion, this is personal relationship with God. If you have parents that are christians, they have something to impart if they bless you, but that doesn't give them authority over you as an adult. And they can't take the place of your pastor who is your spiritual head.

Are you telling me that Marriages done in the court or magistrate are not blessed of God?

They are recognised by  the government,by God , by demons , by angels, by the church. But the court has no power to bless marriage. If a Christian does that , he still needs to do marriage blessing or church blessing, to confer Gods blessing upon it.

Are you born again? Is he born again?. Go to your pastor if you are. You need to lay hold on your purpose for life, it will determine the choice of man you need.

^^^^^^
that's what make it a miracle. Or Sarah and Abraham must have stolen a baby too.

Hi @Joagbaje,

I actually started by asking you various questions - all detailed below - and I would appreciate answers. But in truth, I see your position as being based on the commandments and traditions of men, which have no basis in scripture or are at best woefully erroneouss misapplications of same.

You have made numerous assertions, based very much on what obtains in many "churches" today, but none of which you have supported scripturally.

The fact that I didn't give scriptures for time sake didn't mean they are not scripturally based. All you need do us ask for the scriptural references.

As you can see from some posts, its a very emotive subject. Relationship are being strained and influenced, by this "nowhere to be found in scripture" (I speak of both the "role of pastor" as generally practiced and "pastoral authority" as typically proclaimed). How many wives have I heard answer their husbands (or worse still potential husbands) with "pastor says" regards their personal matters. Or children respond to their parents about other "superceding" parents in the Lord?

Nothing is wrong with that, so long as the "pastor says" is spiritual and scriptural.

This mandate for "Pastors" to bless, curse, command is nowhere to be found in scripture.

You may not use the word "mandate". But the anointing works both ways. The pastor has authority in his mouth. It can bless and destroy.

2 Corinthians 10:8
8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:

1 Timothy 1:20
20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

What do you say about Peter, when he sentenced annanias and sapphira to death.

There is authority in the church brother. That is why a minister must walk in love always, so that he can only bless .

"The Head of every man" is Christ. That is sprititual headship. There is no longer an intermediary priesthood for believers. And there is no divine protocol that demands God always/only blesses via Pastors. Where do people get these notions?

If you are correct , then there will be no need of submission .

Hebrews 13:17
17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that[ is] unprofitable for you. 

Timothy submitted himself to Paul in "church affairs" and Pauls guidance/authority started and ended in that sphere. There is no record showing he submitted his life affairs to Paul. So again, did Paul have "Spiritual Headship" or "Spiritual Authority" over Timothy? And who in turn acted in  a like capacity over Paul?

There's no church affair, christ is your life. Why would he tell Timothy to take a little wine, for his health challenge, why nit send him back to mama. After all Timothy was a youth.Moses involvement with the church in the wilderness, was it only in worship?  He was involved with civil, criminal,spiritual matters. The church is a world on it's own. Jesus says if your brother offend you, take it to the church. The church is not a social gathering . It is the pillar of truth.

 

Eldership authority is limited to church and church affairs, it is not a "whole of life" issue. Church and church affairs are a part of the Christian life - and not even the primary part of that. Marriage is a divine institution, but a civil matter. Church involvement is optional at best. Of course counsel and wisdom from Xtian elders is great, but not obligatory or mandated by scripture.

Marriage for the Christian is not a civil matter. The mistake some people make is to divide the Christian life into two: 1. my Christian life , 2.my personal life. you have only one life. Christ is your life. And this life of christ ought to reflect in your job, marriage , business, ministry etc.
That's why The bible forbids Christian going to civil courts to judge matter. We need to understand the strength of pastoral ministry.

1 Corinthians 6:1-7

1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather[ suffer yourselves to] be defrauded?

I agree with you here. Parental authority is not forever, but parental honour is. And [b]the authority [/b]is still in place regards "family" as opposed to "personal" issues.

I Dont know what you mean by "still in place "  if my father makes decision about his property, it's his property. He has authority over his property .It doesn't suggest authority over me.

And that accountability you mentioned,  is to whom?

accountability to life, to God, to oneself etc. Taking responsibility for ones actions.

Would it be wrong to suggest Honour is equated to cash in essence as it bolsters the notion that "double honour" for elders is also erroneously read to mean money by many?

Honoring parents ( with gifts) is a divine law for longevity.( Mk 7:10,11)

What is spiritual headship sir? Who has spiritual headship?? Over whom? When?

Headship is leadership. Who you follow spiritually .

Please explain the difference between spiritual and non-spiritula authority sir, and particularly the dynamics of "Spiritual Authority"

Let's take Pastor Chris, for example. He started preaching the gospel from the age of about 12. He once said that those days when he goes on a fast, ( for soul winning)he locks his room to pray. The Mum complains to the father, the father comes and command him to open the door, and questions him for not eating, if he says he's fasting, he would still question the fasting by asking him , " what sin have you committed that you're fasting"?. By this the dad was bringing parental authority into spiritual authority. Jesus had to rebuke Mary too. Because parents even in their care don't know when to stop. You must take a stand. And with  pastoral guidance.

So all non-Christian marriages (before and after the advent of Christianity) are somehow missing any parental blessing?

Parental blessing has it's place especially if they are saved. But it cannot take the place of pastoral blessing . The pastor is the man God has anointed over them.

More importantly the bolded part of your statement,"The pastor is Gods representative to bless". could you show any sort of scritural attestation to support that assertion.

It may require a lot of explanation, maybe we spare it for another thread.But the first thing is to define the word " pastor"
It is not a title. He is a shepherd, guides, nutures,feeds, guards,etc. . It is an office and a calling. God has put authority in his mouth for the sheep. To edifying them.
   
2 Corinthians 10:8
8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification,[/quite]

[color=#990000]2[b] Timothy 1:6[/b]
6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.

Is there ever an age of accountability for a Christian, or must he/she always be under Pastors headship or authority?

You don't graduate from pastoral leadership, a man that doesn't have a pastor over him is spiritually a vagabond. Except of course if his pastor dies and he becomes a pastor too. But one thing is clear, he had been raised by someone. As Paul raised Timothy . I'm not aware they set an expiry date for paul's leadership over Timothy.

If ones "Pastor" has a broken communion with God, how does that impact things? If the communion of a GO with say 5'000 churches, 10'000 sub-pastors and 2'000'000 members has broken communio, how are those under his "Spiritual Authority/headship" impacted?

Romans 11:29
29 For the gifts and calling of God[ are] without repentance.

The anointing to bless the sheep, is regardless of the disposition of the pastor . As long as he walks by faith .But a pastor can't break communion with God. It depends on what you mean by that. How can a man break communion with God ? If he cuts from God , he's no longer a Christian , not to talk about ministering to others.

[4] This pastoral "spiritual" authority - what happens to it where the pastor falls by the wayside? Is it transferred or kept "in holding" till another submission to another pastor. Like in the case of such as Jimmy Swarggart,

If a man falls into a sin, he repents and gets out of it. That will not hinder the move of God in his life, except the enemy overwhelms him not to forgive himself or with guilt. God doesn't take the gift from a man. Except if the man walks away from God. And automatically walks away from the anointing.

[/quote][quote]

It is called holy matrimony.Churches are not to join them, Churches join them mostly if the church was un aware they were pregnant.
But if they are pregnant , the church can do marriage blessing for them.

Image123:
^
I want to be very clear, i do hope that i'm the one without understanding of what you're saying here. Are you saying that there's a time when we're younger that we should obey our parents, but as we grow older they don't have any more authority for us to obey them as before or what? Accountability and authority aren't the same words, are they? I believe God should always supercede parents irrespective of our age, but it doesn't seem like that's what you're saying, is it?

I agree with you, The will of God supersedes parents irrespective of our age. But a child may not know the will of God for the moment. Until he grows to an extent. Jesus was one of the few exceptional children that knew Gods will early at the age of 12 . But the issue is , many people called of God had to fight a fight of faith with their parents before they let go.
Many a times parents stand in the way of Gods will because they don't know when to stop interference.

Image123:
Oga joagbaje
'Parental authority is not forever', i don't know about that one o!

REAL TRUTH:
Mr Agbaje or Pastor Agbaje,,,either of two things would play here,,,its either the Bible is wrong/invalid or  U re a false prophet wrongly interpreting the Bible,,,Look at the Bible referrences below and corrolate with your above interpretation of the scripture you quoted above:

Ephesians  6: 2-3. Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
  The scripture here did not define when a man ceases to be a son to his father or mother,,even African traditions teaches us to honour our parents,,how come a so called religion would teach us how its got to get to a point we have to disobey our parents,,,

Matthew 15:4-5. For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
If any man choses to HATE parents,,,such a automatically has cursed the parents,,,,this is one of the many reasons I have a big problem with Penterascals Religion in Nigeria,,,,God would definitely surprise all you home breakers and abusers of God's word,,,
What you guys do is to pick a theology illustration to back up your nefarious come deluded intentions,,,,,

I did not say parents will sieze go be parents, if you look at my earlier post, my stand was clear. Fatherhood is forever.this is what I said : 

Joagbaje:
You respect , honour them by gifts(honorarium). Children are encouraged to obey the parents in the lord.
even if your mother were a witch , you must still honour her. But that doesnt give such parent spiritual headship over you

Fatherhood is forever but that doesn't mean that their authority over you is forever. Take a good example at the life of Jesus.

Matthew 12:47-50
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

I know we still have some men who at the age of fifty still tell their wife " mumsie says we should have a boy for her,"
Your parents are accountable to God for themselves, you are accountable to God for yourself. Some have so much family ties that won't allow them to serve God. Honor for God and his purpose supersedes family ties.

[b]Matthew 10:3[/b]7
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Parental authority is not forever , when you get to the age of accountability, you are responsible for you life. They are to raise the children to embrAce God. God becomes their father. The parents have succeeded as parents.

Matthew 23:9
9 And call no[ man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Luke 14:26
26 If any[ man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

aletheia:
So why did God say this then:
Matthew 15:4-5. For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

Okija juju

Okija_juju:
Lets look at blessings in the bible with regards to parents
Talks about a father blessin his son. (Isaac was not a prophet)
Yet another instance of parental blessing

we should not arrogate to parents the role or responsible that is not theirs.  You respect , honour them by gifts(honorarium). Children are encouraged to obey the parents [b]in the lord.

Parents can only play pastoral role in the lives of the children if they have such calling.  That makes them the spiritual head over them . If you are born again , what dealings do you have with unsaved parents? They don't have any spiritual part to play in your life. You only have the responsibility of honouring them. This honour for parents has nothing to do with their status. That means , even if your mother were a witch , you must still honour her. But that doesnt give such parent spiritual headship over you

REAL TRUTH:
With all due respect,,am deeply sorry to say that I have to insult you for trying to insult peoples intelligent here

Fire!

,,I would you re a very silly

ouch!

This how you people go about breaking peoples home in the name of a God you don't,,Did you not read up where Ephe 6 Verese 2 to 3 says what should be to parents?

your problem is ignorance of scriptures. How long will you make your son a mummy's boy?. Timothy was raised in the word of Go. By his mum , but did she continue to dictate the course of his life. He submitted himself to his pastor, Paul , who guided him in Gods plan.

Why is it at Deeper Life Bible church they always insist on parental consent as against the penterascals doctrine that have brought confussion in christianity in nigeria,,,

it's not only deeper life. Every church recognize the honor for parents, and insist on their consent for marriage to be conducted. Nobody is against parental role . The thread is about who has the right pray over them . Man of God or parents.

I repeat again you re and must be very silly

and silly to make the above bolded statement,,,Can you smell the coffee that more and more people are becoming very aware and informed of the manipulation,deception and fraud your so called men of God re becoming these days? So I will allow the authority of the man of God "RUN FROM YOUR LIFE MINISTRY" to have authority over my son,,or I will allow your man of God that I will have to pay #200 for BAMITISM and where I will consider sunday service as ORDINARY service,,,
As Christian and as a person I have virtually no respect for any NIGERIAN PASTOR,,,except fro KUMUYI AND BAKARE,,,,

so who is collecting 200 for bamitism here? What kind of junk posting is this?

oldtime:
@Joagbaje
We are prone to misapplication of scriptures in defense or defiance, one of the most misapplied scripture is “Judge not, that ye be not judged, For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again” here we often refer to an act of condemning any improper behavior or misdeed,
The application is that, do not judge people by the standard that you fall short of
For example, when I Drink pure water and throw the sachet on the street, I do not have the moral standing to correct another man who does the same, but if I don’t, I can tell others that the act is wrong or make them face the consequence of their action
There is a thin line between error and truth and most times we do not observe the signpost, a lot of things done by churches today were left unchecked and no one spoke to condemn the errors
For instance 1 Corinthian 5:  1It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
We forget that Jesus himself when he said Woe unto you scribes and Pharisee hypocrites, that was displaying an authoritative type of judgment on the evil at the time
If you have a good understanding of 2 Timothy 2;4  ,  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that
he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. ,   you will know that just the way you don’t expect soldiers to sell yam in the market while on uniform, or a Police to sell meat while on uniform, A True Pastor is not expected to engage in other activities that will not propagate the Gospel of the Lord Jesus

The issue of moral standard  was only a warning as a consequence of judging. He was saying if you continue to judge others , you will reap what you sow. Spiritual hammer will follow you, if you should make a mistake, the hammer will land on you without mercy.The word of God has always condemned judging. Because every judging is a condemnation of others. 

Luke 6:37-38
37* Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

It is God that knows mans heart and intention. The men of God you're condemning , you didn't know their heart, you are not in the place of God to judge men's intention. You are not God. You only judged them by what you see physically, there is a biblical way to judge. We judge according to truth.but you judged according to appearance.

John 7:24
24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Romans 14:13
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in[ his] brother's way. 

Romans 14:4
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Jesus had said that before you judge a man, you ought to have given him room to defend himself. Because you don't know his motive. You find your self sinning against God by judging and you set a trap for yourself.

Okija_juju:
As an Alternative Medicine Practitioner, I will answer this question as best I can;

The correct answer is simply your parents. Not your Pastor, but your Parents. Its like kunleoshobb rightly said, your pastors are a product of external influences, your parents are a product of blood and divine mandate. The gods do not recognize any other person as your spiritual guardians but your parents, thats why if your parents should curse you, you are cursed indeed just like if they should pronounce a blessing on you, you are truly blessed.

That's If you are are unsaved.

In a marriage situation, a pastor is allowed to pray for the couples and wish them the best in their marital life, but the parents of both couples are actually the ones supposed to lay hands on the couples and bless them,

parental authority is not spiritual authority. But pastoral authority is spiritual. Marriage is a spiritual institution and not a social one. That is why we have the traditional one where the parents are honoured but, in church? It is the pastor that they are submitted to that has the power and anointing to bless them.

Even the traditional wedding, parents that are unspiritual have nothing to impart to a saint.Theres exception for Christian parents who are spiritual. These are the first spiritual authority over the children. I asked in my first post. What blessing can a juju man pronounce on you?. All parents are not the same . Parents that are not spiritual have nothing to offer. The pastor is Gods representative to bless.

@ tv01

I didn't remember that you were quoting my earlier post, I thought you were just asking in general based on my numerous posts.

But if you are asking who has more spiritual authority [/b]over the other, it is the pastor

We can't deny the authority the parents have over the children, but at the same time , we must recognize , their authority has limits.
1. When they reach the age of accountability.
2. When the parents take a stand against the word of God.

When a man is born again, he's Gods property, there's God purpose to fulfil. The person that has spiritual authority to bless them is the pastor. The parents have parental authority for a period in their lives, but the pastors spiritual authority to bless supersedes the parental . If parents are not born again, they have no blessing to offer a Christian . Because there's a rule in blessing. You can't bless your senior! The lesser person is blessed by the greater person.

[b]Heb 7:7
The less is blessed of the better.

@tv

TV01:
I knew a topic of this type would smoke certain people out !

@Joagbaje, I have asked you several questions now, all of which you have failed to reply. Please surprise me in this instance.

Regards "Spiritual Authority", please explain - however briefly or however long - its working, how it is exercised, how one subjects oneself to it and more pressingly, its specific place in Christianity
Tv
Thanks

I don't know exactly what you mean by spiritual authority .
We have the believers authority, we have the authority of the word and the holyghost. And we have pastoral authority .
All has to do with spiritual authority.

@Tv I'll give a response to your post by 8pm this evening when I'm free but I didn't get any questions unless I missed them so I won't mind if you raise up the questions again or make refrence to the thread.

It depends on what you mean, they both have their places. There is also a difference between Christian parents and non Christian parent. What blessing can a juju man bless his son with ? But if you are asking who has more spiritual authority over the other, it is the pastor ofcourse.

ogoamaka99:
Please permit me to ask the above question.I understand that a true church is the gathering of true Christians. Are there true Christians in this country?. If there are , how can one recognize true Christians and true churches in this country. I am asking this question because the way churches are portrayed it appears there are no longer true churches in this country. I wish to really belong to a true church. Help me.

It is not written in anybodys forehead that he is a true Christian , it is God that sees the heart. That is why it is risky to say someone is not a christian if he claims to be one, it is a sin to call a child of God a name God hasn't called him. If God says he is my son, nobody has right to say he is not. That is why we must avoid such judgementalism at all cost.

But there are scriptural way to know a child of God. It is in what they confess. What you believe will come out through your mouth.

Romans 10:9-10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

It is God that sees the believeing of the heart. The confession is the only one we are left with.

1 John 4:15
15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.


The same goes for churches or men of God. How to know a true church or local assembly has to do with the teaching and the profession of their faith.

1 John 4:1-4
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that[ spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

You don't judge by works. Charity or no charity. Alcaeda and hezbolah and other terrorist groups does charity.

nuclearboy:
True Christians exists -

[1] Such are not in Christianity because it offers to solve their problems but because they believe the way of Christ is the right way. The way of Christ is to do good, to fulfill Isa 61. If you are His, that is what you'll do and then you will get it.
[2] If you see a MOG who leaves his village to Ilorin, then to Lagos then to London, Paris and New York AND you then see another who is working in a bank and says God called him to go become a missionary in the bush where there is no light and he does it faithfully, which would you call "a man of God"?
[3] Churches exist where it is not about noise, excitement but truth, depth and honesty. There are churches where you leave every sunday bouncing, laughing and excited. There are also churches where you feel convicted of sin - where the pastor does not mind you leaving his church; all he does is preach the bitter truth knowing that is God's message. Which do you think God wants you to attend? Remember it is a narrow way not meant for everyone and that many have itching ears and so are led astray!
[4] There are churches who give you names of charity homes OR encourage you to find such and give to them yourself. I know one where you can decide to "adopt" a child (he/she will not go home with you) and pay for the child's upkeep. You might be amazed to know that 5, 000 a month will make this child light up and scream "daddy" anytime you appear. It brings tears to the eyes to take a pack of sweets and see children who never tasted a sweet. Some people are sponsoring 5 children and when they get to school age, sponsor their education too. Whether they are muslim, atheist, christian is beside the point. They are God's creation and He will be your reward.

Truth is, Friend, when you get among the truly poor and needy in society, you start to despise the giant cathedrals, SUVs, monuments to self etc that are been built in the name of God. Start off by helping that poor widow who can't pay her rent and as you get to know such people, you will almost hate the current crop of MOGs who believe having billions and jets is what makes them favored.

I know I'm likely the last person you wish to read from but the above tells you how some of us see it. Remember Isa 58: 6 & 7. I pray God gives you the grace to see how bad it is for some people and that you can become a tool that helps His creation.

Stop counselling people with errors! You are not in the right position.
1.You've not been an example of a true Christian with the kinds of venom you vomit on NL.
2.You don't have a church.

These disqualify you to talk about what church to belong and the character of a Christian . Stop poisoning people with your ignorance and start reading rhapsody.

aletheia:
@Topic:
It was actually the world that coined the appellation "Christian" (It was actually a derogatory term!): So in answer to the question, yes. If you actually follow Christ, the world will call you "Christian" even if you refuse to be called such.
But the problem is that a lot of times people who say they are giving up Christianity while retaining Christ weren't "Christian" to start with. For love for the brethren is what characterizes disciples of Christ, and a lot of them are "Christian".
^I think you were too quick to assume Anne Rice was reading from the same bible as you. Read this her comment on her facebook page:
"In the name of Christ, I refuse to be anti-gay. I refuse to be anti-feminist. I refuse to be anti-artificial birth control. I refuse to be anti-Democrat. I refuse to be anti-secular humanism. I refuse to be anti-science. I refuse to be anti-life. In the name of Christ, I quit Christianity and being Christian. Amen."
Bear in mind that in today's world to say the Bible condemns being gay is interpreted as "anti-gay" And as for feminist. . .the less said the better.

This is your second post that impressed me

nuclearboy:
.

Let me end with another quote from your "failure" (the Word of God) - Vanity upon vanity, All is vanity!

It's so sad that this is the life you've chosen , a life  of vanity!!

Enigma:
From here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/aug/09/religion-christianity

Is it possible to revile Christians whilst holding true to Jesus' teachings?

Earlier this month, Anne Rice announced that she was stopping being a Christian – but that she wouldn't give up Christ. Does this make sense? Can you have one without the other? Could you cling to the prophet and abandon Islam? More generally, should anyone be held responsible for the crimes of their co-believers? Should they hold themselves responsible?

It may be that the answer for Christians and for other religions is "yes", they can and should. Monotheistic religions aren't just matters of personal preference, but of collective effort. They command the believers to build a better society. So do many forms of atheism. So if the building turns out to be slaughterhouse, or a jail, perhaps it's right to leave the work crew. But must you then repudiate the ideals that you have seen betrayed?

Whatever it is that Anne Rice sees in the figure of Christ is the same thing as fuels her revulsion from her fellow Christians. So, how to deal with the problem?

Interesting!

It doesn't make spiritual sense. An amazed at the applause some of you guys are giving to her in her backsliden state or about to. Any spiritual person should know this lady is suffering from discouragement, it is a sign of weakness. Her utterance and decision is unscriptural. "because the usher offended me , i will quit church"

A Christian has 2 ministry . 1. Ministry to the world . 2.ministry in the body of christ.
You are under obligation to fulfil the two. Christianity is not the sitting at home idea, and "talking to my God alone till I die" No! . We are vital part of a whole. We have a ministry to one another in the church. Fellowship is a vital part of Christianity.

Hebrews 10:25
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some[ is]; but exhorting[ one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

You can't love God and not love the brethren , even in their mistakes. Your love for God must be demonstrated first in the church. If not you don't love God at all.

1 John 5:1
and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1 John 4:20
for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

So whatever her reason, that shouldn't make her do contrary to the word. You can't love christ and refrain from his people and from spiritual responsibility in the church. Jesus had said "offences shall come" but love does not take account of evil. We forgive others and move on. The church is not a place of perfect people but a place of perfecting people.

nuclearboy:
Time and Chance (luck) not "name and claim"

"There is a time for everything and a season for every activity under heaven" a time to be born and a time to die, a ,  ,  ,  . ., a time to weep and a time to laugh, ,  " Eccl 3:1

"Moreover, no man knows when his time will come" Eccl 9:12(a)

Combine Eccl 3:1 and Eccl 9:12 together and what do you get? There is apparently also a time to be rich and a time to be poor (since all things have a time) AND no man knows his OWN time. Confess and claim all you want - its rubbish. Time and chance are determined by God, not by you and the combination of time and chance are what is called "luck".

Bobo , life is not a game of chance. Why do you like to quote failures. Why not quote successful men. Solomon was a backsliden . If you want to know what belongs to you, that is if you are born again, because you don't talk like one. But just incase you happen to be saved, read the epistles  more. And rhapsody of realities.

Nuclearboy,
I understand your frustration.But let me try my best to help your understudying. Even though I'm wondering where to start from in this your big empty revelation.

nuclearboy:
@Joagbaje:

"Morever, when God gives any man wealth and possessions, and enables him to enjoy them, to accept his lot and be happy in his work -this is a gift of God" Eccl 5:19

It is a gift not a right! Does everyone get the same gifts? Before you answer, think!

Yes everyone got the same gift of salvation . Health , success, righteousness and prosperity are all in that gift of salvation. Every baaaadiii.

"I have seen something else under the sun: the race is not to the swift, or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise, or wealth to the brilliant, or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all" Eccl 9:11

Time and Chance (luck) not "name and claim"

"There is a time for everything and a season for every activity under heaven" a time to be born and a time to die, a ,  ,  ,  . ., a time to weep and a time to laugh, ,  " Eccl 3:1

"Moreover, no man knows when his time will come" Eccl 9:12(a)

Combine Eccl 3:1 and Eccl 9:12 together and what do you get? There is apparently also a time to be rich and a time to be poor (since all things have a time) AND no man knows his OWN time. Confess and claim all you want - its rubbish. Time and chance are determined by God, not by you and the combination of time and chance are what is called "luck".

"sufferhead" as you call it is what Christians better than you faced that made the Apostles of Christ gather offerings for them. If you feel they were wrong, fine. The Apostles obviously didn't know as much as you, to your thinking, which is why they didn't shout at them to claim and become rich. And why do you have poor people in your church anyway since all are called into wealth? why are your members stealing society blind so chris embassy can pay for satellite coverage and chris can fry his hair? Or is he broiling it now? Why did the bank staff take 60 million? Was it because they were so rich they had NO money?

Stop your boyishness . We don't steal. We give. If anyone ever does wrong , it's a personal problem of his.  

I am rich Joagbaje.

STOP THAT NONSENSE. YOU'Re POOR MAN. YOU SPEAK THE LANGUAGE OF THE POOR.

SPIRITUALLY. . But I am not rich physically.

Now I understand. And I'm moved with compassion.

But resembling who, slowpoke? Moses, the wealthy "god" of his people? Enoch who walked with God? Elijah, the fiery prophet? Isaiah, who saw visions that scared him? Jonah, who lived in a fish? David, who wanted to give all to God and was TOLD not to? Malachi, who rebuked the priests? Jesus HIMSELF, who had no place to lay His Head? Peter, the poor fisherman? Stephen, stoned to death for his testimony? Paul, who boasted in his infirmity and poverty? James, who said its not just mouth (as you do) but actions (which you run from)? John, banished to solitude on an island because of Christ yet gave a WEALTH (do you see what wealth can mean now?) of prophecy because of that?

Don't teach, you don't understand the bible. just ask questions, you will be fine.
The early apostles had a special  calling to die for christ. Jesus told them how they must die.

2 Corinthians 4:12
12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

1 Corinthians 4:9
9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

They the apostles had the understanding that they were to sacrifice themselves for the church and christ.

Dude, thats all you are - a slave to chris! Do you dare to say he's wrong about anything? ANYTHING? Hunger will kill you if you do cos you sold yourself out! Or you wish to say he's perfect? You're just so easy to upturn. Empty brain, mighty tummy. Worshipper of food and a lackey!

>  

Meanwhile, knowing you're a certified  and not wanting to insult you further,

So you know you're insulting. Wonderful. Which pastor gave birth to you? Try study ephesian


Ephesians 4:29-30
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Keep sucking chris and lets see where you'll be in just three years time.

I will gladly wait to remind you at that time, but I hope the light of truth will permeate your heart before then.