₦airaland Forum

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There was no Jesus in Heaven? Am i drunk or is this real?
I thought this passage referred to Jesus, maybe just perhaps it was the entanal Joagbaje. Lemme go and meditate more on John and Paul to stand a chance here.
John 6v38 For I came down from heaven , not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

So where did you come from? From Hell?.

John 17:16
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Philippians 3:20
20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,

@altheia

aletheia:
@Joagbaje:
I can see that you are far gone in your delusion of being god and are unwilling to repent of it. Confronted with several irrefutable scriptures; instead to taking time to ponder on them the demonic spirit pushing you forces you to utter further untruths. Thank the Lord that your true nature is exposed for people to see.

What irrefutable scriptures? This is Nonsense!

^Really? Jesus wasn't there at the beginning? The Theophanies of the OT were who?

The theophanies and "christophanies " were workings of the holyspirit . He is the angel. Of his presence.

The scriptures are so clear, plain and unvarnished, that I wonder how you would suggest otherwise unless you are under a strong delusion.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Of the Word in verse 4, 9 & 10: it is written; "In him was life; and the life was the light of men." And "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.".

The word became flesh is not the same as Jesus became flesh. There was no jesus in heaven. References to Jesus has to do with mans salvation. If you find any scripture that say otherwise about Jesus , quote it out.

Who was in the world? The Word. Who is the Word? Jesus---"the same was in the beginning with
God." "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

No one is denying the fact that the word made flesh became Jesus. There was no person called Jesus in heaven. The word of God was part of God. And God said let there be light". Was there someones head sticking out of Gods mouth while he spoke. His word was part of him. God sends his word . To save to heal . When the word became flesh, did God loose his voice? He was still speaking from heaven , even to christ. I am also a product of Gods word. 

1 Peter 1:23
23 Being born again, --- by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


If you understand the mystery of Godliness , you will realise that Jesus is truly your brother. And he is not ashamed to call us brethren.

Hebrews 2:11
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified[ are] all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Hey! Did you see that ? Jesus calls me his brother !. Altheia calls me ----- whatever. 

Jesus is the One who died and resurrected from the dead[/i]. We identify with the Death and Resurrection in a vicarious fashion, not in the way you state it. Here is how the scripture states it.
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

This just shows how much you don't really understand identification with christ. We became sin through Adam transgression. And we were destined to hell because he was mans representative.if you don't understand the doctrine of sin, you may not understand righteousness. He sinned in proxy for us.

Romans 3:23
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


We did not become sin because of what we personally sinned. You can't tell God "I didn't do anything wrong" Adam sinned on our account. We were identified with him. So even if you didn't do anything bad. You were a sinner.

Romans 5:12
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:  (in Adam )
   

A subtle distinction perhaps but makes all the difference for your words reveal that you are a proponent of the Copeland heresy which claims that he (Copeland) could have done what Jesus did on the cross.

Not  that he could have died on the cross, that's an  understatement ! He did! He died on the cross in christ. If you send viaro to make post with your I.D on Nairaland , who makes the post ? You. Because he or she did it on your account .
So if Jesus died on my account , I died. I'm not claiming his victory or glory , he gave me the cheque! Title deed. " go in my Name"  my representative. He had represented me, now I represent him. He is my brother.and we are one.

Romans 8:29 GWT
29 This is true because he already knew his people and had already appointed them to have the same form as the image of his Son. Therefore, his Son is the firstborn among many children.

^Thank you for unveiling the Gnostic & New Age roots of your belief system. Your analogy of the ocean suggests panentheism which is an extreme heresy that impugns the character of God and makes Him more like a man.
#1. An eternal being has no beginning and is uncreated. But it plain and evident that not only does Joagbaje have a beginning but he also is a created being. God is Eternal. In Christ Jesus, we have eternal life, outside of Him, there is no life. Again a subtle distinction but it makes all the difference.

I am a spirit , I dwell in a  body. I am immortal . I am eternal. This is a simple truth. Spirits don't die!

#2. You seek to create a dichotomy between body and spirit (something that you Gnostics delight in doing) by stating: "A spirit is what I am . I am only caged in human body.", conveniently forgetting that Man is a Body, Soul, and Spirit.

The bible orders it in the reverse, spirit, soul and body. When the body is destroyed man still lives on . His body is mere vessel for contact with the material world or realm of life.

We are not caged in bodies. That is part of what makes us man.

The human body is a limitation to our full expression.

2 Corinthians 4:7
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, ---

2 Corinthians 5:2-4
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found unclothed. 4 For we that are in[ this] tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

#1. That you perform exorcisms does not in any way authenticate you. The sons of Sceva performed exorcisms, so did the Pharisees. Even some that claim to cast out devils in Jesus' name.

Why dont you try it and see if you will survive it. Satan can't cast out Satan .

Mark 3:23
23 And he called them[ unto him], and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
#2. Your words plainly reveal that you follow another gospel not of Jesus. You can "cast out" as many devils as you wish but if your teaching does not align with scripture then the truth dwells not in you---it is a lying wonder. Simple
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them"
#3. Your self-glorifying post above clearly shows how far gone you are into self worship. An examination of the book of Acts shows that the Apostles were careful to ascribe all glory to Jesus for whatever miracles they performed:
Acts 3:6. Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Acts 4:10. Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Acts 16:18. And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
^They certainly didn't go around claiming that their name is Jesus. And the stark contrast between what they did and your self-glorifying and convoluted shenanigans is evident.
^Yeah. You had to find a way to sneak in the name of your god; pastor chris. My answer to you:
2 Pet 3:15-17. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

You are of the party who wrest the scriptures unto their own destruction.

Verrry long rubbish!
[quote][/quote]

chukwudi44:
This is heresy of the worst kind and a a serious insult to our Lord Jesus Christ.Are you implying that Jesus Didn't exist but was only created when he became flesh?

The way of truth had always been called heresy  from the bible days , so it's not an issue.
I always avoid getting into this kind of discussion, because this is a public forum viewed by people of different levels of understanding, I don't want to be misunderstood , I may omit some facts at the moment.
But the truth is, there was no Jesus in heaven , The idea of Jesus came because of mans fall. If Adam had not fallen , there would never have been a Jesus .

The only two beings mentioned in the Beginning was God and the holy spirit.The word was with God ,not by himself. The word of God was in God and part of God. Are you separated from your word?.

The angels never saw any personality called Jesus in heaven.  The first time angels will see him was when the word of God took a form and became Jesus.the last Adam .

1 Timothy 3:16
16 And great and important and weighty, we confess, is the hidden truth( the mystic secret) of godliness. He[ a God] was made visible in human flesh, justified and vindicated in the[ Holy] Spirit, was seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world,[ and] taken up in glory.

There were some scriptures altered to suit religious fathers, which I will not want to go into so as not to sound as discredit to the scriptures. I may rest my case here.

aletheia:
^^This is about Joagbaje's false claims. Not who Jesus is. In any case Jesus is God as I clearly demonstrated in my earlier post. He is not a separate different God as you try to imply above.[/i]1. Has Joagbaje created anything [i]ex nihilo? Answer: No. What about Jesus? Answer: Yes
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Don't push me,  what if I tell you Jesus wasn't there in the beginning?  It was the word of God that was there. The word was not a separate person. The word only became a separate person for salvation of man. The word became flesh

John 1:14
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,( and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

2. Has Joagbaje of his own power resurrected from the dead. Answer: No. What about Jesus? Answer: Yes
John 10:17-18. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

This is where you are missing it. I was the one who died, I was raised from the dead on the third day. 

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of [b]myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.[/b]

See your contradiction. Is father and son same personalities? These are two distinctive individual. Don't you agree? Or is God playing tricks on us?

^Now the nature of your demonic delusion is revealed for all to see. Again this is about Joagbaje's false claims not who Jesus is. So Joagbaje proceeds from the Father in the same way as Jesus? So Joagbaje lives in eternity? Such rank blasphemy. The scriptures are clear about Who Jesus is and Who dwells in eternity. It certainly makes clear that it is not Joagbaje.

If you bring water out of the ocean into a cup. Its still ocean water. If you put it back into the ocean , its inseparable.I am an eternal being. If you understand the eternal life I have in christ you will recognise. That a spirit is immortal. A spirit is what I am . I am only caged in human body.I transcend material realm of life.

^Is Joagbaje the express image of the Father?

Precisely that who I AM.

1 John 4:17
17, As he is, so are we in this world. 

Does Joagbaje uphold all things by the word of his power? Has Joagbaje by himself purged our sins?
Was it to Joagbaje that God made this declaration?
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

I died , I was crucified , I defeated the devil, I am alive forever more. I am seated at the right hand of God. 

Please spare us such specious arguments. Reducing the uncreated Creator to the level of a created dog or goat. Also reducing things of the Spirit to fleshly terms. Scripture is emphatic: God is a Spirit. The new birth cannot be reduced to natural terms of dogs and goats.

Since the new birth seems to be a challenge for your comprehension , I had to use natural illustrations.Jesus did the same,likewise Paul . 

I  was once casting a devil out of a person, and the demon spoke at me saying " this is my house , I'm not coming out"  I replied " you demon, I defeated you 2000 years ago, you are subject to my authority , COME OUT! "  guess what ? It came out! The person vomited phlegm out of her mouth and other substances and she was healed. If you don't know who you are in christ, you can't cast out devils. The authority of Jesus is my authority. His name is my name. As I fellowship with this truth, I no longer see myself as joagbaje but as christ. ( I'm in him , he's in me) the same way Satan sees me, he sees light he sees christ in my eyes. He sees the one who defeated him. You should study more the messages of Paul and John, then you can have deeper insight into pastor chris message. Which is to perfect the saints .The rapture of the church will not take place until the church matures in the fulness of Christ and God.  Recognising our oneness in him. And demonstrating the character of the Gods spirit.   

Galatians 2:20
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:.

Jesus didn't die for a poor beggarly church. He died to have a glorious church. He won't come until we have put all his enemies under foot. Reigning over Poverty ,sin, sickness and death,failure, defeat and all that the devil stands for. We put the devil where he belongs. Under foot. Then we are ready for the rapture.

Ephesians 2:1-6
1 And you[ hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,( by grace ye are saved 6 And hath raised[ us] up together, and made[ us] sit together in heavenly[ places] in Christ Jesus:

All Jesus did , he did it in proxy for us.

aletheia:
#1. Is Joagbaje a god? If the answer is yes then it suggests either that Joagbaje is a true god or Joagbaje is a false god. He cannot be both.
#2. The Scripture clearly and emphatically declares that there is one true god. All others are false.

KJV: [i][b]Isaiah 43:10. Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

KJV: Isaiah 44:6, 8. Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

In the light of your interpretation of the scripture you're quoting, Jesus must have been a false God. He is not God the father, he has his own distinctive personality and body from the father. If jesus is God by proceeding from the father, same goes for joagbaje . I live in eternity.I live beyond so space and time.
 
Mark you, there is difference between trying be be like and being born in his likeness and nature. A Christian that still live a lesser life is limited by his revelation of what God made him. A goat gives birth to goat . A dog gives birth to dog . If Gid gives birth , he can't give birth to anything else. Than his likeness .

@Altheia,

Why are you selective, why not take a look at the parts you can at least learn some things from

Answer: The term “theosis” has two meanings, the condition or the state of deity and the deification of man. Only God has the condition of deity in and of Himself. No man can ever attain true divinity. There is only one God and we are not Him. However, theosis is also the state of being divinized or God-infused, both in character and person (2 Peter 1:4). Peter describes Christians as being “partakers of the divine nature” (KJV). The Greek word koinōnos translated “partakers,” means a sharer, associate, companion. Christians, through the great promises of salvation, sanctification and the privilege of sonship through faith in Christ, become participants in the divine nature of God. 

Through the process of theosis, man exhibits or reveals within himself the presence of God in his life. Theosis is also associated with another term called ”perichoresis” which is a Greek term describing the relationship between each person of the Trinity. Therefore, theosis is related to his ability for perichoresis, or interrelationship, in which God resides within His human creation. As a result of theosis, and this indwelling relationship of God, man is made alive, full, and complete. 

It is only because God created man with the ability to experience theosis, i.e., God literally dwelling within us, that we become a reflection of Him. Another way to look at the idea of theosis is what Paul tells us in Romans 12:2: “Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.” Theosis, that process of becoming like God, is the transformation that takes place within the believer. But it is really more than that. This transformation is made perfect through our partaking in His nature through the Holy Spirit which resides within us. As a result, there comes to the Christian a profound sense of unity with God. Though we know that the full realization of our oneness—our perfection with God—comes after death, this process of theosis or divinization grows in time, by degrees, throughout our lives.

But I'm surprised that rather you are busy trying to pick holes in the write up . I said earlier that I don't subscribe to all they say ,but at least they still have some baby truth for you to have learnt from. That it's not a blasphemy that a Christian born of God is a god. Because he has his nature in him.

A puppy though is small but it's still is a Dog it's a nature. He only grows into the fulness of what he is on the inside. Fullnes of dogishness!

Ephesians 3:19
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

That's the essence of growth in Christianity. It is not a race to heaven but a race to perfection, spiritual maturity into the fulness of christ and God.

,Ephesian 3:15
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things,

Ephesians 4:13
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

@newmi,
I gave a link to one of their anti wof sites which still confirms the divinity and deity of a Christian . Even though I don't subscribe to all their believe. But this is their own view.

www.gotaquestion.org

Question: "What is theosis?"

Answer: The term “theosis” has two meanings, the condition or the state of deity and the deification of man. Only God has the condition of deity in and of Himself. No man can ever attain true divinity. There is only one God and we are not Him. However, theosis is also the state of being divinized or God-infused, both in character and person (2 Peter 1:4). Peter describes Christians as being “partakers of the divine nature” (KJV). The Greek word koinōnos translated “partakers,” means a sharer, associate, companion. Christians, through the great promises of salvation, sanctification and the privilege of sonship through faith in Christ, become participants in the divine nature of God. 

Through the process of theosis, man exhibits or reveals within himself the presence of God in his life. Theosis is also associated with another term called ”perichoresis” which is a Greek term describing the relationship between each person of the Trinity. Therefore, theosis is related to his ability for perichoresis, or interrelationship, in which God resides within His human creation. As a result of theosis, and this indwelling relationship of God, man is made alive, full, and complete. 

It is only because God created man with the ability to experience theosis, i.e., God literally dwelling within us, that we become a reflection of Him. Another way to look at the idea of theosis is what Paul tells us in Romans 12:2: “Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.” Theosis, that process of becoming like God, is the transformation that takes place within the believer. But it is really more than that. This transformation is made perfect through our partaking in His nature through the Holy Spirit which resides within us. As a result, there comes to the Christian a profound sense of unity with God. Though we know that the full realization of our oneness—our perfection with God—comes after death, this process of theosis or divinization grows in time, by degrees, throughout our lives.

One of the best ways to describe how we can become like God is found in the teachings of Jesus, especially in the Beatitudes as recorded in Matthew chapter 5. It is here that Jesus culminates his teachings with the command to be “perfect” as God is. Prior to this, He was setting a new standard, a new law that superseded that of the old law. The goal, to be perfect, to achieve spiritual excellence, is a constant process. The goal for the Christian is essentially to be different from the world, to be more like God. 

Having said that, though, it is crucial to understand that we do not experience theosis by any amount of determination or fleshly effort of our own. It is only through the indwelling Holy Spirit, who empowers us and leads us to godly living by His work in our hearts that we can come closer to God and display the divine nature. For example, it is through this process of theosis, becoming one with God, experiencing His absolute, limitless love that we come to know how to love even our enemies. It is only through His Spirit residing within us that we as believers love and pray for those who seek to do us harm (Romans 12:14-21).

Recommended Resource: The Moody Handbook of Theology by Paul Enns.

@ deep sight

Deep Sight:
This is a regrettable reading of what I posted. Joagbaje is not the issue. I rather tried to show that it is within Jesus' teaching that the elements are subordinated to the volition of the man of faith. And that connotes godship of a sort - to the extent that man is given dominion over the physical world. This is so simple I do not know how you could have mangled it.

You are happy to admonish others to be honest, and yet you do not shrink from this patent falsehood.

[b]Neither Agbaje nor the WoF Movement have ever said aything is exclusive of God. Please let us remain fair and honest. That has never been sta[/b]ted.

Thank you .

@Enigma,

Enigma:
Does the word "Elohim" refer to the "Godhead" every time "Elohim" appears in the Bible?

In fact, no point waiting for your answer; rather let me show you one or two examples.

1 King 11:5 -  For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the elohim of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.

Exodus 22:8 - If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the elohim, [to see] whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour's goods.

Exodus 9:28 - Intreat the LORD (for [it is] enough) that there be no [more] elohim thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no longer.
Jonah 3:3 - So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an elohim great city of three days' journey.
Nah, we understand Paul and John (and James) well enough and that is why a heretic like opaks Oyakhilome holds no appeal whatsoever for us.

Another time wasting twisted post. Did I tell you that Elohim refers to God each time, I was making reference to psalm 8:5 which nuclear boy applied. See how far you've gone twisting a simple post. Don't I know other use of Elohim ? Was the word Elohim not used for Adam, Moses, and judges? I only said the word Elohim in psalm 8 is referring to God. Period.

Buroda misiter ENIGMA

Enigma:
Apart from the poison that he constantly ingests from Christ Embassy, Joagbaje's problems include very poor English comprehension skills (factual and not abusive point) and an overblown sense of self, an arrogant self-importance. All of these are evident in his misinterpretation of John 17:22; in John 17:21ff Jesus was praying that His disciples be one, be united i.e. for church/Christian unity. He did not say that his followers were becoming gods or one with god in Joagbaje's sense, rather they should become one in Christ, one in God.

The other point that our resident pasiitor  conflates is that Jesus said that He and the Father are one --- here of course Jesus does not suggest that His disciples were to become one with God in the sense that Jesus is eternally one with God.

And about Pasiitor Joagbaje's analogy of "becoming a car" because he gets in the car, don't make me laugh!

i will recommend Pauline and John's epistle for you too. I am one with christ my broda, and one with God. You can't give these simple scriptures complicated meanings. Now I understand the troubles Paul went through.

1 John 4:17
17 In this[ union and communion with Him] love is brought to completion and attains perfection with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment[ with assurance and boldness to face Him], because as He is, so are we in this world.


It's appalling how's these guys explains away scriptures. Look at this again. Misita.

John 17:21-22
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father,[ art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

@nuclearboy

nuclearboy:
Psalm 8:5 says 'Thou has made him (man) a little lower than the Angels" rather than " Man is higher than Satan , man is higher than all angels".

A medical student is not yet a doctor and therefore is junior to a Matron in a hospital. Wait then, for when the transforming is done and we become as "planned". Even Christ had a time (according to His Words).

You are wrongly applying the scripture here. The heb word for "angels" here is "Elohim" which makes reference to Godhead.
   
Psalms 8:5 ASV
5 For thou hast made him but little lower than God, And crownest him with glory and honor.

If you guys understand the witings of Paul and John , you may understands these truths. And that's when you can really understand pastor chris teachings.

@Donnie ,
Thanks bro for shedding lights on these simple elementary truths .

InesQor:
Well I'm not surprised. I kind of knew that my questions would not be answered.

@newmi: What about you? Will you respond?

Enigma once gave a link to this websites in one of the anti faith crusades. Even though I don't buy everything they say, But they have some helpful stuff on this .
http://www.gotquestions.org/theosis.html.

I didn't want to make any further comment on this matter again  since i have given the bible reason and i know that certain individual will swing to work on twisting and twinsting my post. but this just caught my attention.

aletheia:
^^As always the plain unvarnished scripture must speak for itself not the interpretations we try to impose on it. Indeed one of the hallmarks of the Antichrist spirit is this:
KJV: II Thessalonians 2:4. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
But the word of God to us is plain no matter how men may seek to twist it to justify their false doctrines:

You are simply doing word play to stir up sentiments for God, but he's not hiring you, he doesn't need your pity . You are the one misapplying scriptures. The Antichrist comes in his own name. I and christ come in our fathers name. If I'm not one with God, then Jesus is a failure, because that's why he came to make me one with God. I HAVE HIS GLORY. 

John 17:22
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

KJV: I Corinthians 8:5-6. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Your scripture here is contradicting you. "we are in him" if you are in a car, you can as well say "my car passed you by or I passed you by" I AND MY CAR ARE ONE. because I am in the car. I am in God and one with God through christ. Is that a hard truth to accept?

John 17:23
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

No matter how you try to spiel it; to us (Disciples of Jesus Christ) there is but one god. Simple. Even if other men proclaim themselves gods. "There is no sense in which. . .the ontological distinction between God and the creature has been abolished in the gospel."

There is one God, yes . But does Jesus have a distinct personality bodily and otherwise? Jesus and God are one . I and Jesus are one and I and God also are one . PERIOD.

John 17:22
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

^^Please answer these questions: who are the "them" that God is speaking to? Is it Christians? Who was Christ speaking to? Was it Pharisees?

Does it matter ? He was talking to people like you. As blind as bat spiritually. They couldn't accept his oneness with God. How can a man say he is one with God.

^^I'm afraid you misapply the scripture: that he is described as the "god of this world" doesn't equate to "Satan became god." Why then does the term "false god" exist? I am sure he's chortling with glee at your post for that was ever his ambition: to be god.

Adam was neither mean to be a god in heaven but on earth. In his jurisdiction . I am a god in my world.my domain, my sphere of contact.

KJV: Ezek 28:2. Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:KJV: Isa 14:14. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Another time wasting trash. We are talking of Gods declaration you are quoting satan rebellion. Man is higher than Satan , man is higher than all angels .God made us who we are. We didn't ask for it. It is the mystery of Godliness.
 
John 17:22
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

^^Scripture interprets scripture: Exodus 4:16 explains the sense of 7:1.
KJV: Exod 4:16. And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.

Good try, that's exactly what we are talking about. I'm his spokes man. A god.

I'm surprised a thread has to be opened for me on this. The issue of a Christian being a god is so simple. Being a god does not mean you have taken over Gods position. A god is a judge , administrator and enforcer on the earth. We enforce the will of almighty God on earth as his children.

Satan became the god of this world through Adams fall. He stole adamic power. Adam delivered his authority to Satan through satan subtility. Look at the audacity with which he spoke to christ.

Luke 4:6-7
6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.   7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

Who delivered it to him ? Adam. What kind of authority ? "Deity"

2 Corinthians 4:4
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Christ has paid the price for mans restoration. And secondly a chritian has received Gods nature of "divinity" .
So a Christian being a god is simply an expression of God the father through him.  He is not trying to arrogate to himself what is not his. The word of God is God . If his word comes in you it makes you a god.

John 10:35
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

We as Christian are born of the same word of God. "As he is , so are we" same nature. The Essence of Christian growth is to get to the place we can manifest his fulness which is our destiny. And grow up INTO HIM.

Ephesians 4:15
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head,[ even] Christ:

Ephesians 4:13
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


I don't need to get into too much details here we have dealt with this on the thread on "faith"

But my question is " why is it easier to accept that Satan became god and yet hard  to accept that God children whom he stole from are gods?

Exodus 7:1
1 And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

If God has placed in the body of Christ;pastors, teachers etc and commands that we should submit to them.

Hebrews 13:17 (KJV)
17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that[ is] unprofitable for you.

Hebrews 13:17 (AMPLIFIED)
17 Obey your spiritual leaders and submit to them[ continually recognizing their authority over you], for they are constantly keeping watch over your souls and guarding your spiritual welfare, as men who will have to render an account[ of their trust].[ Do your part to] let them do this with gladness and not with sighing and groaning, for that would not be profitable to you[ either].

Hebrews 13:17 (message)
17 Be responsive to your pastoral leaders. Listen to their counsel. They are alert to the condition of your lives and work under the strict supervision of God. Contribute to the joy of their leadership, not its drudgery. Why would you want to make things harder for them?

Hebrews 13:17 (NIV)
17 Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.

The simple truth is ; if you don't have a pastor whom you are submitted to, you are simply a very dangerous spiritual vagabond. (no offence pls). Just like the sons of sceva. In act 19:13

Wad up?  What of me, you are not interested in my story? Don't you want to know how I became god?

Image123
I don't know where to start with you. Where have you been since.you dis appeared only to show up when all are sleeping. Read my posts over again don't draw us back your answers are there. I don't know if I have time for all these petty petty issues you raised again. Those were just part of some of the issues with James.he still had other issues , he is to be held responsible for the anointing oil business today which was one of the Jewish customs he introduced to the church. He was the only person that could call children of God sinners. Study the message of paul well. We will have less arguement.

@altheia

aletheia:
^^Pretty lame excuse. I wonder why you won't just let it go. Must you always seek to justify yourself even when obviously in the wrong.
Your initial title was: Pastor Chris Used The Venue That Micheal Could Not Use. There was no doubt whatsoever about your intended meaning especially when juxtaposed against your post.

I don't know where you're going in this matter, I didn't deny , I meant micheal jackson. I had two purpose .
1. The fact that the europeans that would have gone to 02 to watch Jackson , went to the same venue to get saved is a good news for me to publish.
2. The second part is feed back from the programme to those who attended. I was glad to here manmustwack went, but I'm not glad he changed my topic.

@Altheia,
I was making reference to the Michael in title and not the content of the post

The marriage would not have succeeded .A broken engagement is better than broken home

Amos 3:3
3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

1 John 2:19
19 They went out from our number, but they did not[ really] belong to us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us. But[ they withdrew] that it might be plain that they all are not of us.

Interdenomination marriage has it's own problem. Better to marry from your church. Same Jesus but different revelation.

Chukwudi

chukwudi44:
@fyneguy .

Which means that even if the person dies on top of another man's wife ,the blood of Jesus he had confessed would still save him?

What on earth will you be doing on top of another man wife?.

I've not heard any minister say a poor man is cursed. What is said is that poverty  is a curse. God doesn't give a man. Poverty. It is the devil that is the agent of poverty

@ horus
Stop this kind of Witless rebuttal.if you feel the miracle is unreal Come and analyse this video for us. Lay your points out.

God warned israel about representing him with images of animal and birds. All the dealings of God with man had been in human appearances, because we are in his image. He appeared to Abraham , moses, Jacob ,Joshua. Manoah, Daniel . Etc it was the holy spirit that was the angel bringing all such manifestations. Whatever John saw has to be consistent with every other scriptural harmony. The holy spirit is a He , not an it. And God won't give his glory to animals.

Fyneguy, may God bless you for this video, It is one of my favourite miracles, who says God is no linger in the business of
Healing?

Who saw the descent?You quoted Luke, did look see anything? Did he claim he saw it? Who actually saw it. Because the descent was a spiritual manifestation. Not everyone saw it.

The holy spirit taking a form of dove is contrary to truth that God should not be represented by images. The bible didn't say the bodily shape was dove body. The descent was dovelike, but the body must have been human figure .because the holy spirit is a person. Flood , wind , fire, water have all been used to describe the manifestation of the spirit. "like a rushing mighty wind" that doesn't describe his person. And we shouldn't. Use such images. If you must use an image, use my picture, he looks like me.

Kunleoshob

KunleOshob:
^^^
Stop lying the bible never described Mary magdalene as a LovePeddler so stop tring to mis-lead people here in your desperation to defend your love for filthy lucre.

Luke 7:37 (kjv)
37 And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that[ Jesus] sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,

Why did jesus not return the perfume which she bought with questionable money and which was abomination according to the law?

Luke 7:37
37 a woman of the streets-- a love-peddler-- heard he was there and brought an exquisite flask filled with expensive perfume

Many people that use the Dove as symbol assumed a physical Dove appeared at jesus's baptism. But the bible never said a dove appeared but that the holyspirit came down and descended like a dove. Not that he looked like a dove but the descent was best described like a dove descent. For example , the way an airplane lands is different from the way a helicopter lands.

JeSoul:
Joagbaje, both your questions have the same answer. Look the the right of any post you make, whether you start a topic or just a make a response in a thread, there's a button that says "Modify" - you can modify the title of your thread or your post, or even the title in your post. Hope this answers your question.
Godbless.

I never knew that, thanks.

nuclearboy:
^^^ First time I hear Jo accept he is not infallible. Normally, what we hear is that he is God, angel, righteous etc when Christ Himself humbled Himself (knowing the limitations of FLESH) and said "no one is good except God". If God then was humble, do we have right to strut about proudly?

If you are ready to continue like this Bro (and hopefully put God in His place and MEN in theirs - starting from Oga chris), maybe its time for such as me to leave the religious section as a poster and become just a learner. Whist Pride goes before a fall, humility is the true mark of a servant child of God. 

I only asked a general question. I was to write Michael Jackson [/b]in Full. Only to see only [b]Michael after it was posted. And I had a deliberate reason for that. I'm one the individuals praying for Michael to be saved. Thinking of the millions that will turn to the lord through his conversion. If the Arena he was to use , was finally used to bring men to christ. It's a thing of pride for me.

And there you go again. Jumping into conclusions.