₦airaland Forum

I'm sure you're jocking. Altheia medical analysis are junks. There is a difference between miracle and healing. Altheia is spiritually blind.

aletheia:
For example, looking at the second video and listening to the woman:

Here is likely what happened: Notice that at the onset of the video, she had some substances smeared over the skin lesions (no doubt causing continued skin inflammation). After getting "healed", she would have washed that off and stopped further applications, thereby giving the skin time to recover through its God-given natural healing ability---and hey presto, there's your healing!

Now one whould expect based on what we read in the bible that supernatural divine healing would produce a skin as smooth as Naaman's was after being healed of a skin disease; as pristine as that of lepers, healed by the Master's touch, but we see that the woman's forehead remains scarred (there was an attempt to hide this fact, using a low wig), a finding consistent with natural healing processes.
Its adll a scam, and once in a while these sort of videos are released in order to entrap the gullible.

You are simply an unbeliever dude. Just like the Pharisee . Jesus was right about people like you. You take joy in explaining away a divine miracle, you think it's about joagbaje , you are simply blaspheming ,I will get back to you.so what about the second video?

And what happened to tortoise? ----

SirJohn:
Dont try to hide behind bible passages young man, you and your mentor are not anywhere close to Paul and Jesus. Deal with it!

Dude , is this Another escape from reality of the word? Where did you find us different from christ and Paul in the context of this discussion. In what bible. Do you want to write another bible dude?

InesQor:
@Joagbaje:

Baba is this supposed to be a compare-and-contrast exercise between T.B. Joshua and Chris Oyakhilome? The methods may be different, but until real non-anecdotal evidence is produced, there is basically no difference between this and magical showmanship in either case!

What evidence do you need than a live undoctored  service? Is it Paper and documents? If you can't believe live miracle how will you believe paper? Your skeptism will never be satisfied.

Blasphemy? What BLASPHEMY? Blasphemy is deifying your pastor as the one who worked out a healing. . . and making a monetary business out of healing.

And what do you mean by making monetary business out of healing? Do they pay for healing? 

Don't just throw words, if you are a Christian , you should seek truth. You claim God only do healing at his will.meaning we don't have a say. This is contrary to what jesus taught. About the church.
There are men God has anointed for healings and miracles. The point is for you to see that miracles are not faked . They are real. We may not have 100% result. If we have 80% today we thank God for it. Tomorrow we will have 90. We are still growing and learning. 

Pastor chris is not trying to be superstar among Christians , but rather wants every Christians to do the same thing that Jesus had died for , we ought to work in the supernatural . Every one of us. Those who have ope heartedly follow these teaching like some of us have been working miracles as well at our own level of grace. Glory to God!

Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

InesQor:
The bone of contention here is how you have trivialized the miraculous healing power of God and brought it to a level where people try to buy their way in, and revert Glory to a man. In an attempt to keep up the magic, you manufacture anecdotal evidence and pay fake-backside gangsters to come and lie that they got healed. Its a tower of babel that you build, and soon everything crashes like a pile of cards.

As much as you meant well ,  may God forgive your blasphemy, who would go and get gangsters to pretend for healing. It is unnecessary . If a man will use gangsters to give false testimony, what will now happen to the souls of the gangsters will they believe in God ever again ?.

We have 2 kinds of healings .1, through the gifts of healing 2,by faith . So some heal by the healing gift and others by prayer of faith.

Please watch these 2 videos open heartedly


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpajHwwuzig&feature=youtube_gdata_player


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIoURmoCn-o&feature=related

One can't force anybody to pay tithe, they only lack the knowledge of the importance. The simple truth truth is that the non tithers simply lose the benefit associated with tithing period!

SirJohn:
I have said this before and I will say it again: Diligence, honesty and hard work are the sure foundations of wealth not tithing, offering, partnership or , any such form of extortion.
But then on the other hand, these forms of giving does make rich yes it only enriches the collectors i.e the likes of Mr Chris and Joagbaje who prey on unsuspecting followers with sugarcoated lies.

I laugh, I believe Jesus and Paul have some explanation to do for their extotions. If that's what you call it

Luke 8:3
3 Joanna, whose husband Chusa was Herod's administrator; Susanna; and many other women. They provided financial support for Jesus and his disciples.

Galatians 6:6-7
6 Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor.
7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

It is the giver that benefits my dear friend, not the receiver. Read the bible well.

Acts 20:35
35 ----- and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

SirJohn:
OMG! this is very comical, I cant help but feel so sorry for your ignorance. I am a successful businessman and I seal major deals every month in millions; I DO NOT TITHE!!

Sir John , don't start this, I may back off here because I don't want to sound offensive. But the wicked can prosper for a reason according to scriptures . I haven't said you're wicked . But there are biblical laws principles. But I will warn you not to boast against God. The grace of your good deed in time past and mercy may still be working for you. Couple with how you have followed God from childhood. He grace may have been expanded to cover your error till God brings you out of your distraction .

Seven year old boy sells his painting for £150,000 --- and nothing to do with tithing!

Mr Enigma,
You can't be comparing me with the boy, Well he sold one , I sold four. But that's not the issue, I had with me artists that are known more internationally , and to have 4 works sold and some of them still came back home with unsold work is a miracle for me. So look at it in that perspective.

There are miraculous things that have been happening to me through my givings, I can't tell them all. A couple gave me a brand new prado jeep, fresh from factory, i didn't ask them for it. They said God told them to give me. Guess what ? I only used it for a year I gave it as a seed this year , I have a principle not to use a car for more than two years. I can't tell all the mind blowing strange things that I experience through giving.

@Kay 17

Kay 17:
^^yet you have not addressed certain issues;
Are tithes compulsory?
If so, what are the consequences of default?

I didn't intend to comment on rhem before. I have said in several thread . The tithes and offering are Gods financial security for his people. It is by faith , even though its not by force , it is a necessity for any wise person. I am a tither and I know the grace I work in through my tithing . Above all things , it is my honour and worship, recognising God as source of my prosperity. I participated in an art exhibition recently with some great painters. In one day I sold 4 paintings . While some " great painters" haven't sold. Why will I not tithe?. The consequences of not tithing is absence of grace that tithing carries. Every obedience to the word carries a blessing. If you obey some , you have benefit of it's grace, if you don't , you loose the benefit it contains.  Tithing is also a primary way by which the work of the ministry is supported.  It is came through the revelation of God to men of faith before the law came. God officially made it compulsory through the law. Some say I give offering but not tithe, sorry, they go together to support ministers and work of ministry.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live[ of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
     
Malachi 3:8
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Does a born again need to rehearse

Yes , but it depends on what you want to rehearse, but if it's spiritual thing, you don't need to rehearse. You yield to the holy spirit.

Sorry, if one is a Christian, what is the use of being born again.?

Being born again is to receive the life of God on the inside and become partakers of his divine nature. Without this , every man is destined for eternal damnation in lake of fire.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-413360.0.html

Kay 17:
^^yet you have not addressed certain issues;
Are tithes compulsory?
If so, what are the consequences of default?
Does a born again need to rehearse?

Sorry, if one is a Christian, what is the use of being born again.?

I didn't intend to comment on rhem before. I have said in several thread . The tithes and offering are Gods financial security for his people. It is by faith , even though its not by force , it is a necessity for any wise person. I am a tither and I know the grace I work in through my tithing . Above all things , it is my honour and worship, recognising God as source of my prosperity. I participated in an art exhibition recently with some great painters. In one day I sold 4 paintings . While some " great painters" haven't sold. Why will I not tithe?. The consequences of not tithing is absence of grace that tithing carries. Every obedience to the word carries a blessing. If you obey some , you have benefit of it's grace, if you don't , you loose the benefit it contains. Tithing is also a primary way by which the work of the ministry is supported. It is came through the revelation of God to men of faith before the law came. God officially made it compulsory through the law. Some say I give offering but not tithe, sorry, they go together to support ministers and work of ministry.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live[ of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.



Malachi 3:8
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Awon t'oku f'oro kristi
Awon t'o ru agbelebu re,

Question: "Who am I in Christ?"

Answer: According to 2 Corinthians 5:17, “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” There are two Greek words which are translated “new” in the Bible. The first, neos, refers to something that has just been made, but there are already many others in existence just like it. The word translated “new” in this verse is the word kainos, which means “something just made which is unlike anything else in existence.” In Christ, we are made an entirely new creation, just as God created the heavens and the earth originally—He made them out of nothing, and so He does with us. He does not merely clean up our old selves; He makes an entirely new self. When we are in Christ, we are “partakers of the divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4 KJV). God Himself, in the person of His Holy Spirit, takes up residence in our hearts. We are in Christ and He is in us.

In Christ, we are regenerated, renewed, and born again, and this new creation is spiritually minded, whereas the old nature is carnally minded. The new nature fellowships with God, obeys His will, and is devoted to His service. These are actions the old nature is incapable of doing or even desiring to do. The old nature is dead to the things of the spirit and cannot revive itself. It is “dead in trespasses and sins” (Ephesians 2:1) and can only be made alive by a supernatural awakening, which happens when we come to Christ and are indwelt by Him. Christ gives us a completely new and holy nature and an incorruptible life. Our old life, previously dead to God because of sin, is buried, and we are raised “to walk in newness of life” with Him (Romans 6:4).

If we belong to Christ, we are united to Him and no longer slaves to sin (Romans 6:5-6); we are made alive with Him (Ephesians 2:5); we are conformed to His image (Romans 8:29); we are free from condemnation and walking not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit (Romans 8:1); and we are part of the body of Christ with other believers (Romans 12:5). The believer now possesses a new heart (Ezekiel 11:19) and has been blessed “with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 1:3).

We might wonder why we so often do not live in the manner described, even though we have given our lives to Christ and are sure of our salvation. This is because our new natures are residing in our old fleshly bodies, and these two are at war with one another. The old nature is dead, but the new nature still has to battle the old “tent” in which it dwells. Evil and sin are still present, but the believer now sees them in a new perspective and they no longer control him as they once did. In Christ, we can now choose to resist sin, whereas the old nature could not. Now we have the choice to either feed the new nature through the Word, prayer, and obedience, or to feed the flesh by neglecting those things.

When we are in Christ, “we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us” (Romans 8:37) and can rejoice in our Savior, who makes all things possible (Philippians 4:13). In Christ we are loved, forgiven, and secure. In Christ we are adopted, justified, redeemed, reconciled, and chosen. In Christ we are victorious, filled with joy and peace, and granted true meaning in life. What a wonderful Savior is Christ!


http://www.gotquestions.org/Printer/qotw-PF.html

@altheia ,

aletheia:
^^You do realize you are describing yourself---engaging in doublespeak as you do.
^^What do you mean by this, you silly defender of all things pastor Chris? Are the scriptures in error? Do they not condemn anyone who teaches that we should not honor our parents.

This idea of misquoting someone is getting out of hand. If you have followed my posts , I have consistently talking about honouring parents, in close to ten posts. 

Siyanda posted her story clearly and succinctly:
^^
To which you responded thus:
Forgetting that elsewhere your very own words had corroborated her story:

When you get into a mess you still stubbornly look for out to manoeuvre your way .I have been very consistent in my posts. I said the same thing in that old post . And I will still say it,  The prayer that Jesus taught them called the lords prayer is not for mature Christian . Such may be necessary before the holyghost came, Jesus had said that the holyghost will lead us into all truth.right  now we pray by the spirit. The only two ways you can pray the will of God is  by the the Word and by the holyghost. No more. No less.  
 

They do say liars ought to have good memories. You are a liar and deceiver.

that's your escape route , you false brethren. Sheep without shepherd. Why not just humble yourself .

It's so amazing the hypocrisy of some posters here. If someone receives a miracles and share it , you will go all out to scrutinize the authenticity of such. But when there is a negative false report, you accept without proof. I think many readers by now have seen enough of these. And tired of the double standard attitude of some here. 

Question? Has pastor chris ever taught that anyone should not take care of his or her parents. 
Answer  :  never.but the contrary is the answer. He rather tells us to give to our parents ( after the flesh). He even said it should be done even if they don't need it. But because it is based on spiritual principles . A youth Corper should sent money or gift to the parent even if the father is a governor . There is a blessing attached to it.

Now you see althea as usual mumbling scriptures together without a foundation on a lie and false accusation.
I will like you to provide evidence on it. Pastor chris or a tape of CEC where it is taught to stop giving parents money.

[quote from siyanda]

2. Tithing - I look after my parents since they are both retired. I give them R3000 a month and my sisters and brothers also give them. Now Ose once preached that if we dont tithe we are CURSED. This hurt me and I went to the leaders of the church to tell them that I cant really give 10% of my salary because I support myu parents, my child, my self, I pay my bond, my car, food, clothing, etc I told them my 10% is going to my parents but I do give R1000 towards tithe, they told me STOP giving your aprents money because it is God's money. That grieved me. I prayed and God told me give as your heart desires!

If you can't provide evidence of such teaching you should go to bed. A Christian can not be cursed by God. If you hear pastor chris enough, you will know that such lie don't sell. It is not our teaching. 

Quote from: siyanda.N on Today at 02:31:30 PM

3. Award Ceremony for Best givers - They hold the year end awards ceremony where people who gave more that others are awarded. hahaha such manipulation.

The one we do , and it's your carnal mind that calls it manipulation. A spiritual man calls it encouragement or motivation. I will gladly admit yes! We honour partners and those who have laboured for the spreading of the gospel one way or the other. It is a biblical thing . God says to honour them and esteem them highly. 

  1 Thessalonians 5:12-13
12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you; 13 And to[b] esteem them very highly [/b]in love for their work's sake.[ And] be at peace among yourselves. 


In the bible people have been commended for well doing . "And the humble hear it and are glad" but the prideful hear it and they are MAD. what would you say about John commendation of Gaius. For giving to the work of God. Manipulation?

3 John 1:5-6
5 Beloved,(Gaius) thou doest faithfully whatsoever thou doest to the brethren, and to strangers; 6 Which have borne witness of thy charity before the church: whom if thou bring forward on their journey after a godly sort, thou shalt do well:

[ b]Quote from: siyanda.N on Today at 02:31:30 PM[/b]

Who does that?? they manipulate people to make sure they give during the year so they can also get those awards. You should see people who cant afford to give so much made feel useless.

You feel useless because of your greed , period. We rather celebrate with those who do well and challenge our commitment to the lord. Paul talked about how other churches were challenged by the giving of the macedonian church in  1Corinthian 8 And he commended them. ( what a Pauline manipulation!). I don't know what you guys benefit in attacking churches?

  Quote from: siyanda.N on Today at 02:31:30 PM

4. Tongues - I attended a service last year where Ose was preaching on tongues, telling people that they need to "practise" speaking in tongues. She started making some sounds telling people how to speak in tongues. She then told the whole church to stand up and speak in tongues. Now, 5 minutes after they stopped. And Ose called for people who want to be born again, hahaha the same people she was teaching to speak in tongues 5 minutes earlier  GOT UP! I realised that this church is a joke

You are the joker baby, so while other are praying, yours is to open your eyes and noticing this who pray and not? I don't even need to comment on this rubbish seeing you're one of the spiritual police.

Quote from: siyanda.N on Today at 02:31:30 PM

6. Pastor Chris - I had a cd from Pastor Chris teaching people to NOT PRAY like OLD christians who prayed "God if its your will let it be" I thought to myself WHAT ? Jesus taught His disciples to pray "Your will be Done" and this Chris is telling people to pray for their OWN will.

You are misquoting a teaching and misrepresenting it in a Mali ious and manipulative way.  There is a difference between someone  that has resigned to fate, confounded and confuse not knowing what tommorow holds or where his life his going, and another person that has laid hol on Gods purpose for his life and has known the will of God. Because God wants us to know his will and do it. Not hopelessness. 

Acts 22:14
14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.

Colossians 1:9
9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard[ it], do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will [/b]in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 
 

[b]Quote from iyanda

7. Healing School - I never understood what went on there! People who were sick on the floor were placed right at the back and people who were quiet well to me were put on stretchers, wheelchairs and were prayed for.

You never knew what went on there yet you knew the "to me" what a contradiction. If all these people were well from all over the world : Asian , American, Britons, iraqi, Iranian , Indian etc. If the were well what did they travel to the healing school for. Are you not reading the magazine and see them before and after. And some , months after still waxing stronger.

Your own case pathetic because I don't understand your Christianity. You are a south african but the spirit of apartheid and tribalism is still in you. and  You have developed such a hatred for Nigerians , I read some of your posts:   

hahahah exactly how these nigerian morons are behaving here in south africa, they act big meanwhile they are silly fools who know how to lie, steal, insult and hate. I wont stoop to your level again your nigerian education does nothing for your manners. They say you can take a person out of the slums but you cant take the slums out of a person, and that is TRUE Nigerian. Low class thieves.

7  Forums / Romance / Re: How Do I Get A Naija Boy To Love Me? on: May 28, 2010, 08:53 AM
Drugs, crime masterminds!  They do not discriminate. They ask no age, name, title or gender. They infiltrate horizontally and vertically in any hierarchy or level of the community. They respect no boundaries; obey no laws not made by themselves. Masters of-disguise, they have many names, forms, faces, colors. Talking business with them is talking death. The longer in their service the lower you stoop. They exponentially destroy wherever they move, a destruction most of the time only realized when viewed in retrospect. STAY AWAY FROM NIGERIANS. Your question should be telling you that he does not love or want you, why waste your time trying to get someone who does not love you or want you to love or want.

Forums / Romance / Re: What Kind Of Woman/Man Will You Never Marry? on: May 28, 2010, 08:48 AM
I would never marry a Nigerian man, that for DAMN SURE!

You only saw this thread as an avenue to unleash your venom on anything you feel is nigerian. but the gospel is universal , not Nigerian . And mind you , pastor chris has hundreds of pastors in S.A. that are indigenes and don't hold the wrong opinion that some of you racist have. Coupled with thousands of members in that great nation . Who thank God daily for sending pastor chris to better their lives.

@Image 123

Image123:
Joagbaje
Sincerely, you need a reset. It's difficult for me to start with you, though with God all things are possible btw. For if the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?
Reason for my summary is that no doubt, you've got food (there are 'young' christians who need to desire food to grow. They have little/no food). The problem is your food is heavily poisoned. Those who can't discern, or do not have the Life will definitely only see the food, they couldn't discern the poison. Jo, do something about the poison.

I've been searching for the thead. Can you explain what poising. Don't just throw words , discuss, if you have anything to say

@wirinet.

wirinet:
Thank you dexmond,

Also i can see photoshop editing at work in the photo. The right arm was wrongly joint, also the shadows are awkward, especially the arm and head.
Shadows easily give away fake pictures.

I don't agree with you sir, there is no Photoshop work here, the picture to me is just as it is.

wirinet:
in addition, the body seems to have been taken under studio lights and hence the near even illumination, the head taken under another condition, the right arm under another condition and the environment under natural conditions.
So it is the joining of three four pictures

What i see is simply a figure on the bare ground and the light is low like sunset ,giving it a long shadow. The low lights either natural or artificial also gave it a ghostly look. But the picture is not doctored. The only part I agree with is that this is not a mermaid but an effigy .

nuclearboy:
@Joagbaje:

Why do you sneak in to respond? Why not confront this head on rather than waiting till posts are long past before responding to them?

I was off Nairaland for few days , I didn't know thread was still on. We have outreaches month end, we need to pray and fast for souls to be saved. I need entire week off. I will fully resume Nairaland by Monday .

And God told YOU that He was waiting for a time to tell Adam to eat the fruit, ehn? Please show scripture supporting this. For what the bible says is point blank - "don't eat it". MAN WAS GIVEN LIMITS so he would not grow past his pants (like you would)

The guy was blind to his sexuality not until he ate the fruit.  And God confirm he has become like Elohim . All in the fruit. It was not an evil fruit .

Adam was not yet "perfect"? Are you sure your prescription was filled alright and you're not taking hypertension pills for insanity? God made ALL things perfect is what the Bible you claim to believe says. It was Man that "devised many things". If you want a quote, let me know - it will only show your poor scholarship of the Bible to ask! For its between you and God - either the Bible is right and you are wrong or you are right and it is wrong

Jesus wasn't perfect either, he was another Adam

Luke 2:40
40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.


Luke 13:32
32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day, I shall be perfected

Hebrews 5:8-9
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

But you are NOT speaking the truth - growing up into Christ does not mean becoming Him or co-equal with Him. And the love of Christ does not include handing His Glory over unto you.

He gave me. We share it. It shows the little knowledge you have , I am JOINT HEIRS with christ.
 
John 17:22
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

2 Corinthians 3:18
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord,(we) [b]are changed into the same image [/b]from glory to glory,[ even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.

I am tired of going round in circles. The scriptures speak for itself. You just refuse to see it. Your understanding of Christianity is terrible.

I don't know about you but I started driving at 11 and got my first car (my mothers old 404) when I was just 15 and admitted to the university- your extents of your experience does not encompass that of humanity

But you had no license to drive. You drove illegally , that's what were talking about. That's what landed adam into trouble.

[color=#550000]When did God tell you His plan that ensured they were still in a garden? Who informed you the Garden was not figurative for earth and closing the door behind them at exile was not a Spiritual matter? Plus who gives a "F" what your beliefs are?

There you go in hypocrisy, you want to write a new version of bible, when you've not known ABC of salvation.

Are you not the same person who "deosn't know if Moses died or not"? Are you not the one who believed Adam was cut in 2 with his female repro organs separated to form Eve? Dude,

You have a lying habit. I only quoted in that thread what some schools of thoughts teaches , I didn't say it was my belief.  

your beliefs suggest Angeldust sprinkled on indian hemp and washed down with sapele number 4 after not eating for 4 days!

you need a doctor nuclear boy.

A "christian" says Bible miscalculation. Basically then, the Bible knows nothing! This chaps totally gone or maybe he never came anyway. Where are those dolts that jump in to applaud whenever he speaks - please come applaud his decision the Bible doesn't "KNOW" but miscalculate.

Trying to twist my post again? Any good bible schollar knows what I mean. Bible scholars miscalculated the age of the universe by counting ages of men in the bible and missing out the link between verse 1 and 2 of genesis. That's why the church has conflict with science.

I sign out now. Till Monday.

akanawu:
Which is better a Lady that Nyashed got pregnant and aborted it and passed their pregnancy test or the one that presented with her pregnancy and failed the test?

I am saying this because I know a lot of ladies will go to the extent of aborting their pregnancies and presenting themselves 1month later when the level of  hCG which is the marker used in pregnancy tests would have gone down. Mind you this person would have committed two sins: fornication and murder and will still be wed by the church because she will pass the so called pregnancy test.

Its betwee the person and God. The issue here has to do with church stand, if the church didnt take a clear stan . It will look as thougn the church condones whatever. And people will go gaga in their lifestyle.gradualism will set in. Someone will come with 8 months pregnancy . Loomat what gay movement is turning into. Satan works through gradualism. It goes beyond what happens secretly between mates. legalise our lifestyle for marriage. Once that is adopted, they move to other things, as legalise couples they want to have right s to adopt babies,  now Satan can raise children up without father and mother. Immagine two men adopting a baby, and raising a baby, what mind set will the baby develop, having lost the sense of father and mother. Watching two men doing it.a generation is lost. Whichever way certain things can be curtail will help preserve a future. The church shouldn't shift the morality stand.

@altheia,

^No wonder you are so confused; mixing secular humanism and pseudo-science with God's Word.
What pre-Adamite age? I can see you 've reading your Dake's Commentary. Where is that in the Bible? Produce the verses for us to see.

The pre admit age is confirmed in several scripture, I will give you some.

Firstly , God told Adam to "replenish" the earth, re-plenish in English means , to re- fill . That tells us , the world was one occupied. You may call it Atlantis or any name. Scientific evidence by radio carbon dating proves this fact. That is why many scientist have problem with creation. Because evidence shows million of years existence while bible miscalculation shows earth is 6,000 years old. The fossil evidence to a great extent are true . Dinosaurs existed millions of Years ago.

The mis understanding is from chapter 1 of genesis .

   Genesis 1:1-2
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness[ was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

This is where Christians missed it for years. There was a gap between verse 1 and 2 . A gap of millions of years.God can not create confusion.He created a perfect world, filled with people and civilisation in verse 1. He didn't create it void.

Isaiah 45:18
18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I[ am] the LORD; and[ there is] none else.


He didn't create it vain and empty , something led to the earth being void . If you have an N.I.V translation. There is a footnote on verse 2. Which says the earth possibly became void .

Bible evidence shows that the rebellion of lucifer led to the chaos of verse 2 of genesis.

Jeremiah 4:23-25
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo,[ it was] without form, and void; and the heavens, and they[ had] no light. 24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 25 I beheld, and, lo,[ there was] no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.


This was what led to verse 2 . There were once men, birds animal, Dragons and dinosaurs. Millions of years ago. But the men were not in the image of God . It is believed that those men that once existed on earth are the demons on earth today. Who desperately look for a human body to express themselves. If you know anybody who has seen a demon, they will tell you of their strange structure, and their ugliness . Some hunters in those days will tell you of strange creatures they came across while in thick forest. They are more than human beings in number, they are all over the world. They are mobilizing for the final war. God is raising his army too.  That's why we must know who we are in christ. We don't have anything of our own. Our ability is simply the authority we have in christ.christ is not coming for a chiken church.

Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Ezekiel 28:12-17
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord GOD:"You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
16 By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.
17 Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.

Now someone that doesn't understand prophecy studies may think it was just applying to a man. The attributes of the being here goes beyond a man, and any prophecy student knows that.

So this is not only dakes affair, Scofield bible , Niv, dakes and other renowned bible scholars affirms the fact.

That world was destroyed by water, that's why the bible says water covered the  face of the deep.

2 Peter 3:6-8
6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

This flood here is an antediluvian flood, and not noah's flood , because the flood of Noah was only limited to earth but the flood lucifer destroyed the heavens and earth.

@ nuclearboy

nuclearboy:
IF THEY WERE ALREADY GODS, WOULD THEY "BECOME" GODS AGAIN? The argument is IF THEY WERE ALREADY, not what came after! Plus what came after was they had the knowledge without the wherewithal to make "profitable" use of it, thus they became false gods! Is that not what the Word you hate so much says? So what is new that you said?  How difficult is it to comprehend that IF THEY WERE, they would NOT be becoming and the argument is some said they already were BEFORE?

How many more times do you want it repeated? Or you want it in other languages?

Why don't you use your intellect for something that supports truth for once rather than exposing the spirit that hates truth in you so blatantly? You start to bore with the senseless hatred that flies to err without even considering what is being discussed. Kilode?

I said in the ealier post that there was a process of perfection for man. Adam was not patient enough for the process to complete. The fruit was not evil . The fruit contained the secret of mans perfection. Things went awry because they ate it by the word of satan and not at Gods appointed time.

Adam was not yet perfect. He was in a process. For example , God told him to replenish the earth,and reproduce. We don't know how many days or months they were in the garden, but the man that was to replenish the earth did not even know he was unclothed! How on earth will he replenish the earth?. He only got awareness of his unclothed part when he ate the fruit. the Godship of man has process of development. There's  is legal aspect and vital aspect. Legally he was , but vitally he had to develop fully into it.   A little boy is a man but still growing into man hood. He is a boy , he is a man.

Ephesians 4:15
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head- Christ

Ephesians 3:18-19
18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height- 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

If you buy a benz for a 16 years old boy , he has to wait few years to drive it.

Why were they still confined in a garden, when they had an assignment to replenish entire earth.There was another significant tree meant for man in the garden. The tree of life . Which I believe was for the final stage of his developmental process by granting him permanence and immortality. God created man in his image( spirit) and likenes ( physical appearance) then he had to be trained in his faculties to exercise his dominion. When he matures , he eats the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Then he eats the tree of life and remain permanent in that state of perfection. He is now ready.

God instructed him to excercise dominion. He even helped him out by making him give names to animals.

Genesis 2:19-20
19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought[ them] unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that[ was] the name thereof. 20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field----

For the tree of knowledge of good and evil , the word "good and evil" simply refers to judgement or descernment. . Its not refering to ability to do evil and good but to discern , to judge.which is a sign of maturity.

  Hebrews 5:14
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age,[ even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


So ,To know. Good and evil then means to judge aright. Because one of mans assignment  is to judge angels and other beings.

1 Corinthians 6:3
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

John 5:22
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

We and christ are one. Even though he is my lord yet We are brothers.


We should note that it was not out of anger that God sent man out of the garden but out of love , because if man had gone ahead and eat of the tree of life, he will be permanent in that fallen state and there would have been no redemption for man again. So God had to protect the tree from man.

Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

We can't blame the church but the couple. Because the church has rules and the couple had prior knowledge. They must have been told or warned, in the marriage classes that until they marry they should not act or live like married couples.so they knew the risk I volved when they began to do otherwise.
Secondly, in a situation like this, many churches still have back up plans, instead of living the church , they should have asked the pastor for what to do. Either they. Still go ahead and join them by marriage blessing or church blessing on same day. Or another day. Marriage blessing is conducted for couples, who had been cohabiting but not wedded, there's a little difference in the structure such as : the lady will not be veiled. But  they can still wear gown and exchange rings. They will not be addressed as bride and groom but as man and woman . E.g instead of you may kiss the bride, it may be " you may kiss your wife, or the woman" . In some places, no kissing, because, they have been doing kissing plus since!  

Why churches take such stand on chastity before marriage is probably based on two things.
1. The teaching of christ on the difference between who you you're cohabiting or doing it with and who you are married to with document .

John 4:16-18
16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. 17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: 18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.

2.The second reason is probably based on Paul teaching .
Hebrews 13:4
4 Marriage[ is] honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

So I don't see it as church wielding too much power, if churches begins to join Christians with big tummies, guess what the churches will turn into.we will have to take "holy" out of the holy matrimony.

InesQor:
@Joagbaje: You see, I understand your confusion cos I was similarly brainwashed. For years I preached & taught these WOF heresies too, in & out of church, until I took time to compare "revelation knowledge" with the infallible Word of God! Then scriptural truth dawned on me. I digress.

You are the one exhibiting ignorance. If you don't believe in Word of faith , you have a long way to go. The word of God is the word of faith.

Romans 10:8
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee,[ even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

1 Timothy 4:6
6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

1. We are not God's image by the same token that Christ is the express image of God. You slur his identity.

If it's too big for you to take , just leave it. God can't lie. Jesus died for this purpose. Our oneness with God.

2. True, we are in Christ, positioned in God. BUT he remains the potter. We are clay. He is Divine, you are human.

I have human body, which I'd being saved into a glorious one. But I am not a body.

3. There is NO difference between OT and NT saints. The sacrifice of Christ paid backwards in time as it paid forward in time. He died for Enoch and your great grandson's grandson! Moses was saved & reconciled to God with the SAME blood that saved you. Abraham was as born again as Apostle John the beloved. The fact that Christ hadnt been physically sacrificed does not confuse matters because he had been slain from the foundations of the world! The physical aspect had to happen sometime or the other, but for EVERY ONE, whether before or after, they all accepted the sacrifice by faith and were saved. Jesus is God's salvation to us.

The OT saints got glorified at the resurrection of christ. (Thanks to enigma and --altheia).But before that time , they were not new creations , their spirit was still dead after the image of Adam . That is why they couldn't contain the spirit of God. The hollyghost could only influence them from outside but could not dwell in them like us. We are the one that have the facility to contain God and the holy spirit. Because our spirit is created in his image.

Jesus being slain from the foundation of the world was a prophetic declaration in the foreknowledge of God.Me too I have been chosen from the foundation if the world.

Ephesians 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

4. I wont even stir that preAdamic stuff with a long stick, I will only prod it. Suffice it to say IF such a world existed, it doesnt interact with or influence ours. Think of two parallel lines, they cant and wont ever meet. Whatever happened there if it existed has no bearing on us today. Its not impossible that there was life in another dimension before ours, knowing God,

Where are demons from? Don't they influence our world today?

BUT Adam WAS the first man in our own existential frames of reference. If it was important to consider other worlds, God wont leave you stabbing around in the dark and clutching straws. And then claiming deity!

I'm not claiming deity , Deity gave birth to deities. The word of God is God. Anything that his word produce has God nature.


1 Peter 1:23
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

James 1:18
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

John 1:12-13
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God,[ even] to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. :

You and altheia should study on the verse 12 again. I'm born not of blood not of flesh.

1 Corinthians 15:48
48 The First Man was made out of earth, and people since then are earthy; the Second Man was made out of heaven, and people now can be heavenly.

 
1 John 4:17
17  ----as he is, so are we in this world.


In this world , and not in heaven.

nuclearboy:
In the beginning was the Word and the Word [size=18pt]WAS[/size] God.

The Bible says Jesus was God, not an Image of God.

Hebrews 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of[ his] glory, and the express image of his person,

I'm not in rivalry with christ, I'm in him just like man kind was in Adam .

I am created in christ, like fussion of amoeba ,we share the same life and glory.

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

All men sinned in adam . Christ is the second adam .im in him .I share his glory.

1 Corinthians 15:47-49
47 The first man[ was] from out of earth, made of dust( earthly- minded); the second Man[ is] the Lord from out of heaven. a 48 Now those who are made of the dust are like him who was first made of the dust( earthly- minded); and as is[ the Man] from heaven, so also[ are those] who are of heaven( heavenly- minded). 49 And just as we have borne the image[ of the man] of dust, so shall we and so a let us also bear the image[ of the Man] of heaven.

The "gods" in Psalm 82 - were they born-again Christians? Were they new creatures? Were they divinity because of the new birth? So why were they called "gods" and what difference is there between your godship and theirs?

Man generally was created to be immortal and a god on the earth in relative to Satan's rebellion in the pre adamite age. He was the  ruler on earth and head among angels too. Man was not in the image of God as at then. We don't know how many millions of years,  from homo erectus to homo sapiens.

After the rebellion of Satan , he was cast down, and God decided to make man in his image, higher than Satan and all angels. He made man next to God. To the envy of Satan , Satan couldn't bare  this and he caused man to fall , thereby stole the authority that belongs to man and man became a victim.

As God begins to grant man revelations in the knowledge of him, he begins to live a life that transcends the natural fallen  human life .

So in psalm 82:God was saying , because you're rebelling against my word, you chose ignorance instead of knowledge and you walk in darkness ,you will die like a fallen man even though you are supposed to be gods .

  Psalms 82:5-6
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6[b] I have said, Ye[ are] gods;[/b] and all of you[ are] children of the most High.7 But ye shall die like men----


They were called to be gods because they were Gods children. But they fell like men because they couldn't live up to it. They didn't walk in the light of it.  If a man accepts his divinity, he is on the part way to grow into him and be filled with all his fulness. that's what the love of christ has done for us. All we need do is to know it and accept it.

Ephesians 3:19
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

nuclearboy:
^^Next time you look into a mirror, ask yourself if that is a man! Can that "IMAGE" bleed, die, punch you? That is how an image of God is not God no matter how you try to turn it.

So why did Jesus bleed and died?

Plus you avoided this - who was Ps 82 calling "gods"? Were they Christians? If they were not, tell us who they were and what is special about you if they too were "gods".
No long stories. No searching for props. Just address the above. But I know you'll not

I didn't quote it. Jesus did. Ask him, why he equated himself with ps 82.

The topic is multifarious .There are issues of revelation knowledge, how come Elijah didn't die? How come Enoch didn't die. Your knowledge in the mystery of God determine the level you function in. This is another dimension, we may take it to another thread on dissimilarity between OT saints and NT saints

Some of you guys try to pity God and give an impression that someone is trying to steal Gods position . Go back to Gods original purpose. He had this truth in mind for us.

Genesis 1:26
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Man was born to be like God on the earth.   god wants us to be like him. Is not complaining. If you can't accept Gods plan . Don't criticise me for daring to accept it.

Adam was in the his process of growth in God. The process was not yet complete. The complete process was to be in the eventual eating of the fruit. Which Satan made him eat in disobedience at the wrong time. The fruit contains mans perfection. But he fell out because he ate it prematurely .

Genesis 3:5
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods (Elohim), knowing good and evil.

The tree was not an evil tree . It contain knowledge. But it was not yet time for adam to eat of it.

God didn't deny what Satan said.

Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Jesus completed the process for us.

John 17:22-24
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.


John 17:14
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
 
If it was blasphemy for man to be god why would Jesus justify such claim by quoting psalm 82:6

John 10:34-35
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Look back at verse 33 again, ---" 35 If he called them gods, "unto whom the word of God came" .  It is the word that makes a man god. Because the word is God.

What assured Jesus that the desciples were ready for the next level in union was the same word coming to them.

John 17:14
14[b] I have given them thy word[/b]; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.


We are born of the same word of God. Christian are more than humans. We have divinity as a nature.

Nuclearboy.

nuclearboy:
I always seem to be fighting but this is all so easy it puzzles me how people can miss it. Jesus and the Word! Whats the difference?

Can anyone touch himself? Yep, you can touch your head or shoulder or nose or whatever! The only way YOURSELF IS EXPRESSED is when someone calls you and you answer! Who answered? YOU! ! ! You are your word! So what was Jesus? Was it the flesh or the essence, the spirit/Word behind the body? I'm sure if He fell down, he would bleed - can God bleed? Why does the Bible tell us God is Spirit yet we insist Jesus is flesh? What then separates you from muslims and aboriginals saying "Atanatu - God does not use the toilet"?

How can Christians say these things and feel happy with themselves when it is stated that the "word BECAME flesh". That word was the real person and it was that word that created all things!
How hard is that to comprehend?

Can God give birth to anything less than himself?  He gave birth to Jesus. He gave birth to me.

Who is  the God of Jesus?  = Jehovah
Who is my God?                 = Jehovah
Who is the father of Jesus ?= Jehovah
Who is my  father?            = Jehovah

John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


We all eternally existed in God. We are spirits. Or let me speak for myself. I am a spirit beng and not a body. God is a spirit also. If I am created in his image ,then I'm a spirit as well. I have a physical body to function in this material realm of life. The body is not the me ( as altheia erroneously believe.). I've been chosen from the foundation of the world.I eternally existed in the father.

Let me give an illustration Here. It's like when a Toyota engine knocks, and you put in it a Benz engine. It looks like a Toyota in the body. But it's a Benz. Because without the engine the car is dead. This new engine is the new creation in christ. His spirit is from God. In exact image of the father. I may look like any ordinary man. But I am not a man.

1 Corinthians 3:3
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas[ there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?


Its worthy to note here that the greek word here for "men" is  which means , a human being. We need to understand how God sees us. A Christian is not a man! . He is deity in human flesh. As we grow into his fulness, we lay aside all human appetite. Christianity is putting off humanity and putting on divinity.I'm the embodiment of God. He lives and manifest himself through me.

2 Peter 1:4
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature---. 
 

Jesus once called Peter Satan. Because satan tried to use peter to stop Jesus from his assignment .

Matthew 16:22-23
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

The same principle applies to a man that has the spirit of God in him.

Jesus was born of God, I am born of God
Jesus was born of the the word, I was born of the word too.
Jesus needed the holyspirit to function, I received the same holy spirit to function.
He was crucified, buried , defeated Satan, resurrected and his is seated at the righthand of God. Likewise me.

Everything jesus achieved  was not for himself but for me. I am not his rival. I was created in him. Iam in him . I have his glory, his power, his fulness, his life. Christ is my life. He is divine , I am divine too. Jesus is my brother.