₦airaland Forum

jagunlabi:
The scots wear skirts as their traditional attires.I guess they are in trouble with the biblical god of fashion correctness.

Thanks ,Jesus didnt wear trouser either,he wore gown with skirt. maybe i shoul get one too.The point is that your outward appearance is your choice .The bible only teach on modesty in dressing.
The Deut scripture was not addresing fashion but rather saying that the particular gown a man has worn should not be worn by a woman. all of them word same design of gown.

@ Viaro

Quote from: Joagbaje on Yesterday at 05:55:02 PM

viaro:
Besides ,there is agreat difference between "The Christ" for Israel and "Christ" which refers to Jesus and the Church.

viaro:
So, are you advancing a teaching of two different 'Christs'? Is the one for Israel different from the same Jesus Christ the Son of God?

What Christ is to the Church is different from what he is to Israel.The Christ for Israel is the Messiah that will deliver them from the enemy politically ,physically and spiritually. They have been waiting for the messiah for ages. They will embrace the antichrist who will fit the picture. But for us we are one with him and on that day when Israel will finally cry out for messiah on mount Zion we together with Christ will come down to earth to fight for Israel on that day.

Rev. 19:13-15
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. [14] And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. [15] And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

So this will be the second coming of christ that israel is waiting for but before this time many will show themselves as that christ to israel. This was what Jesus was adressing in that prophecy in Matt 24. he wasnt talking about the church.If Israel follow any of those Christs ,they would be destroyed by the antichrist because no man on earth would be able to defeat him.

Matthew 24:21-24
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. [22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. [23] Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. [24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

So you can see how wrong it is quoting that scripture in reference to a christian because of his acceptance of his oneness with Christ.

Dolemite:
A name is just a name. . .the richest man in the world is called Billy lol. The name bearer influences his destiny, not the name.

Well this is the general idea people have ignorantly but name is not just a name. A name is suposed to be a prophetic utterance or a word of faith or expression of faith. Words are not mere sound in the spirit realm. A name may be a word or a sentence.Africans understands this but they use it neatively. They give names based on past or pressent situation or experience. but When God give names in the bible he makes it a futuristic utterance or prophecy. Any time your name is called a blessing is being pronounced if it is a good name, but a curse is being pronounced if it a bad name. with time a man's life with take the form of the name especially if its a negative name.

@ aletheia

aletheia:
Signs of the End
What deep truths? What deep things? Did I not say you are a neo-gnostic and a Mormom to boot?

It is no wonder that your false teachers and prophets go around calling themselves anointed, for they are fulfilling the scripture.

Matthew 24:23-24
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. [24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Lets see how to help you here, Firstly, There is difference between prophecy that is meant for the church and the one meant for Israel as a Nation. The particular verse you are misquoting is a jewish prophecy which has to do with the great tribulation after the rapture . I will be far gone by then. The word christ meant the chosen one or the anointerd one and every jewish man knew what that meant. God wont contradict himself.Besides ,there is agreat difference between "The Christ" for Israel and "Christ" which refers to Jesus and the Church.

The fact still remains that we christians are Christ. forget my small letter "c" or capital. it is my my little impatience and typing errors ,the cases of the letters are non issue. Let me leave you with this .

The body does not have a different name from the head.We are the body of Christ ,Im sure you wont dispute that , well i hope you dont.

Ephes. 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

The body and the head make the name "Christ" I am sure your body does not have a different name from your head.

Understanding "Christ" takes a revelation of God's spirit. It is a mystery beyond human senses.

Ephes. 3:4
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Hebrews 3:14
For we are made partakers of Christ, ;

Col. 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

[color=#990000[b]]Romans 8:17 [/b]
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; [/color]

You have become one spirit with him. He is my life now.My humanity is lost in himHis Spirit has taken over me.

1 Cor. 6:17
But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

I have lost myself in his divine life.His life has super imposed mine

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Gods desire is for Us to grow up into Christ's fullness. This maturity is what will lead to the rapture. The body of Christ will get to that perfection in demonstrating oneness with him

Ephes. 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

1 John 4:17
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

viaro:
When you claim to be "WHATEVER" Christ[b] is to us,[/b] then you're a deceiver, a liar, and one of those who Christ said we should watch out for: "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." (Matthew 24:4 & 5).

You used to act honest before but you seem to have joined these manipulating group. I didnt say I am christ to the church. Or who do you refer to as us ?.

If I carry bomb, I am a bomb, If I carry christ I am christ. not to another christian but inside of me. I am one spirit with him. My spirit is as holy as his own.
This ignorance is serious . See, read 2 cor6. see how the christian is contrasted with a non christian. We are different

2 Cor. 6:14-16
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath[b] righteousness [/b] with [color=#000099]unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? [15] And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? [16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [/color]

CHRISTIAN: Righteousness, light, believer, temple,Christ

Now when I said I am christ now. there will be shouting of ignorance .If i say I am righteousness, they will say "heresy" no man is righteous, But I am! sorry, no appologies. I am not just a righteous man , I am the essence, and embodiment of righteousness.

2 Cor. 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

There may be no point resonding to some of these things here to avoid misunderstanding, it is not a bad idea anyway but the questions of late are not out of honesty. You pick some and leave some and the one you are picking on are petty irrelivances.

@ Viaro

viaro:
Your analogy or illustration is flawed, and depends on where you're applying it. I don't know what obtains in Nigeria; but elsewhere like in Europe, a student/trainee police officer could still arrest his lecturer if the said lecturer violates the law - in just the same way a trainee police student/officer who's off duty could still serve to rescue an accident victim (see one that happened involving a case of a trainee/student police officer of the University of Chester).

Your problem is that you are confusing title for essential nature. A police officer is still a human being even if he/she becomes a student or a truck driver, or usher in your church - whatever the title, it does not change that person from their existence as a human being.

However, in Jesus case, no title affected His Deity. And for you to claim that "Whatever you think Christ is , I am", is a farce.

~ you're not the Bread of Life (John 6:35);

~ you're not the Door through which anyone enters
to be saved (John 10:7 & 9);

~ you're not the the Resurrection (John 11:25);

~ you're not the 'Master and Lord' of believers (John 13:13);

~ and you're certainly NOT the Way, the Truth and the Life (John 14:6).

When you claim to be "WHATEVER" Christ is to us, then you're a deceiver, a liar, and one of those who Christ said we should watch out for: "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." (Matthew 24:4 & 5).

There's still time to retrace your steps from the WOF movement and its celebrated hypocritic liars. They are 'gods' from the kingdom of their 'master' the devil who was a liar from the beginning. You need to repent from the claim that you're "whatever" Christ is, so you don't fulfil Matt. 24:5 in yourself in the subtle ways that you have been demonstrating on Nairaland.

Stop being petty ,look at the big picture.
The fact remains that he has made me a god in my world.That doesnt reduce him. If you go on like this , there will be room for you to question the deity of Jesus. If there is one God , How come Jesus claim to be another God?.You have to understand the balance here. Christ is still my head, yet I am one with him. just as Papa God is head over Christ and yet they are one.

1 Cor. 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Dont ask if I am bread of life, read your bible .I am one with him.but he is still my head we have become bread together.!

1 Cor. 10:17
For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

If i ask you who is the light of the world now, You will say Jesus, You see . But we are the light.
If I say " I am light of The world now. Some will faint , but Iam.When I say "I" Im not just talking about me , It refers to the church.

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

It is not everything one is allowed of God to say here, because it could be misunderstood. How can one be expounding deep truths to those who have not even understood simple faith. But you kept proding and proding. Paul couldnt even teach corinthians deep things ,talkless of someone that doesnt believe that christians have authority.

We have become christs in our world. as christian and that doesnt stop jesus being our head. He delegated us.
The message you are attacking is the message that will finally open your eyes.

KunleOshob:
@joagbaje
Satan was not the first Adam. Adam translates to mean man, it was also the name or prefix of the first man. Only the devil knows were you WOFers get your silly notions from. If you guys had your way you would have written your own bible by now.

I am deeply sorry for using that phrase. Let me break it down into milk for you.

Adam lost his authority to satan in the garden That was how satan became the god of this world. The power satan was operating was ADAMIC power and authority. God had to prepare another ADAM. (Jesus) So satan who was operating the authority of the first Adam vs Christ who was second and last Adam.

1 Cor. 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
After Jesus died ,he went to hell ,and defeated satan and disgraced him and his cohorts

Col. 2:15
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

He took the key of authority from him.

Rev. 1:18
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. .

He turned the authority of the earth over to me.

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Romans 4:13
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The authority of the earth is transfererd to me now. Those who still want to be under the bondage of satan can go ahead. I reign on this earth through christ.

Enigma:
Nonsense!!!! What is being criticised is the Word of Faith movement and its litany of heresies that you spout here ignorantly and unashamedly.

One thing that should have set your alarm bells ringing, if you were sharp enough is this: even though Western Christian denominations differ on many things, in general, they are unanimous on the person/nature/status of Christ as God who exercised divine power and on the nature of man as man (NOT God or god) who looks forward to the hope of the coming kingdom; ONLY the Word of Faith movement deny the divinity of Christ in reducing Him to a man who needed faith AND elevating man to the status of "god" or even God.

The fact that ONLY WoF is different from all others should tell a wise person that something is wrong!

It tells intelligent and informed Christians that WoF is a heretical movement that should be avoided like the plague!

Some of you guys Deliberately misquote  someone as a manipulation. I didnt say Jesus was not God, I said Jesus was God but relating his deity  to the miracles ,I said he did the miracles as man by the power of the holyghost .He was 100% God and man. If a Police man goes to school  to study, Is he a Police or a student?. Even though he is a Police ,  he was not sent there to be police. He is there to study as a student. He cant threathen his lecturer with arrest.He strips off his uniform. He functions as full student.

Philip. 2:8
   And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

He needed to come as a man to defeat satan. if God should defeat satan ,it would be injustice. He dealth with satan as second Adam While satan was "First Adam"  .Adam versus Adam.

nuclearboy:
@Aletheia:
QUOTE
Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth (such as fyneguy, joagbaje, mba emeka et al), even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. (Jer 10:11, KJV)
Precise and applicable!

You forgot to add Moses among us !!!.

Exodus 7:1
And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

ttalks:
Oga sir, take a look at this below:

Rom 10:8-9
( But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Verse 9 which is in bold is the word of faith that the apostles preached. It does not in any way conform with what the word of faith movement is about.
So get your facts right before you rant.

Hold on gentlemen, may I  join the table for a moment before the celebration begins.
I love your explanation but  its just one thing you are missing out here. There are  Four basic  fundamental principles of faith. The problem is ,,you guys only focus on one aspect, It is a truth but it is  a lesser truth. Which is "belief"

The steps are, namely; Hearing the word, Believing the word, speaking the word, Acting out the word or on the word.

All these are necessary for faith to work. Hearing alone will not get the result. believing alone can only get partial result. Faith is more than believing.

THE WORD:
 Faith can only be execised by the word of God. You cant say " i no go die because my head dey strong" It is not WORD based.

Romans 10:17
   So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
That settled.

BELIEF/BELIEVE
The next is Acepting or believing. Which is the area you guys stopped . But you need to know that believing is not enough to get result by itself even though it may partially get some result.Someone may believe Jesus is lord in his heart but that wont get him saved. You may believe God can heal but that wont cause healing .Your belief must be spoken out .

James 2:19
   Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Why? there are deeds of faith by which we demonstrate what you believe, and this deeds of faith are the things that are recorded in heaven. These are the next two steps  or principles. Which are "Speakin and Acting your faith" This is where we are having clashes.

Speaking Faith Or WORD OF FAITH:
faith has to be communicated in words. In the spirit realm, words are not mere sounds but "they are spirits".I need several pages to explain this but I will make it as brief as possible. If you rew up among the Yorubas , I dont know about other cultures, The acient fighters and hunters and warruors use "ogede" and "ofo" Pastor AIO will bear us out here. He was born into Ifa family  "ofo" means spoken word. You must speak it out!. Spoken words are like currency of purchase in the sprit realm.In the 70s on WNTV WE watched how two warriors would be charming each other with words. These are spiritual laws. It cut across the globe.

The word of faith is the spoken active word through our mouth. It is our "ofo" If I may borrow that word.
Back to that scripture

Romans 10:8-10
   But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; [9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. [10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

What was He saying here in sumary, He was saying, you donnt need God to come down, The word of faith is in your mouth. If it is salvation you want , "keep saying it" sorry or rather "say it" If you believe in your heart, then say it with your mouth.

Faith has a voice. Faith must speak.

2 Cor. 4:13
   We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore[b] speak;[/b]

What will be will not be. That song is a lie. If you dont say it  with your mouth the will of God may not come to pass. You have to make decrees as a King in your own world. You decree with words out of your mouth.

[color=#990000[b]]Job 22:28 [/b]
   Thou shalt also decree a thing, and it shall be established unto thee: and the light shall shine upon thy ways.
Note  that the word of faith is not speaking to God but speaking to things and speaking to life situations[/color]

Mark 11:23
   For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Luke 17:6
   And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

1 Cor. 13:2
   And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

If you dont beleve in word of faith so How are you going to heal the sick or cast out devils. Imagin you stant before a demonic case and start praying, ;

" father ,I pray thee , if it be thy will to cast out this evil spirit, may thy will be done.or  father please let this devil leave me o in Jesus name amen"

Look , the beatten you will recieve will be worst that the sons of Sceva.

I Beg I don tire lets save the rest. let the party begins,

Quote from: KunleOshob on Today at 02:02:03 PM
What is this silly slut ranting about

mba emeka:
MODERATORS! are you going to allow this kinda language on this forum. this is Vulgar marxism at its peak!

Well KunleOshob seems to be having his way with the moderators in his agbero style. The way Some men beats their wives at home you will wonder if they ever got education in school. No rules for Kunle on Nairaland .

viaro:
Now this is an example of what I have been saying:

(a)(b)(c)
Do others (fyneguy, mba emeka, jaffi) see what viaro has been saying? It's not the pretentious talk of 'I am a "small g" god' anymore, but the real WOF lingo I have been consistently pointing out specifically about their use of "Deity" and "Divinity". I laugh in semantic creole. . . when fyneguy was trying to buy time with his games of "define" this and that, he should have waited for his mentor to spew it all out.

When WOF proponents cannot defend their heresies from God's Word, they say non-WOF can't handle "strong meat". Whether it is mecury or aluminium you're chewing, Psalm 82:7 and Jeremiah 10:11 still stand to warn you.

What is this continous Hala on WOF .
The word of God is the word of faith.The word of faith is the utterance of your faith with your mouth.

Rom 10:8
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Any Christian criticising word of faith should be ashamed of himself to even display such ignorance openly. So what do you preach? Word of death?

Enigma:
What about all the other things that have been pointed out ----- which one have you gone back to check with the Bible; even if more errors by Hinn, Kenyon & Hagin are pointed out, will you not just return in robot-mode repeating pre-programmed jargon in defence of heresy.

Example: you were told that it is heresy for WoF teachers to teach "you are a god"; you come back with passages including Psalm 82:6 especially saying this:

Meanwhile the very next verse 7 and its togetherness with the preceding verse 6 had been pointed out repeatedly (or "severally" Lord knows I hate that word ).
For your benefit once more (if it is not hopeless) here is the passage again together:
Psalm 82:6-7
If you are the "god" in verse 6, are you also the "god" in verse 7 condemned to die like men?

They have not pointed out any teaching , by Kenyon and Hagin, I am still waiting for it. This matter is beingg blown beyond proportion unnecessarily.

Psalm 82:5-7
They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. [6] I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. [7] But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

Verse 5 explained why they would die like men. because of their ignorance so they walk in darkness even though they were gods but they will die like men. It is like a Christian that is not walking in love. sicness and deseases will attack him.

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death

So its not like the case of Viaro ignorantlly saying joeagbaje will die like men, emeka mba wil die like men

A god is a magistrate, a god is an enforcer, Na me write bible?

Exodus 7:1
And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

They have gone to call the unstable big brother

John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Are we talking of Deity here or faith. I explained the issue of our divinity in the other thread yester day. I have taken charge of my world from the hands of the enemy.God has made me a God to my world. I enforce his will in my Sphere of contact. I create my enviroment with my spoken words ,just like God. Whatever you think Christ is , I am.

1 John 4:17
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because[b] as he is, so are we in this world.[/b]

I am filled with the fulness of God. Just like Christ. Its no longer I that live. Demons see Christ when speak.

Col. 2:9-10
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. [10] And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Ephes. 3:19

, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.


I am one with God, I didnt aspire to be so , he made me so , it is a gift, I am divine , from above, not from this world

John 17:16
They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:21-22
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. [22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

I am sitted with Christ in the heavenly place of authority ,far above all principality and power.There is so much about me that i am yet to discover, But I record growth each day I spend time medidtating on his word, I am being transformed.

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

2 Cor. 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Viaro, Aletheia

Truth is not by force, I didnt write the bible, I just take it for what it says. There are diffent stages of growth and understanting. You humble yourself to learn. Immortality is not a heavenly promise
God wants us to have dominion over all the enemies of God,death inclusive

2 Tim. 1:10
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought[b] life and immortality[/b] to light through the gospel:

You dont need to be born again to live forever. Man is a spirit. Spirits dont die. Everybody will live forever. witches and wizards inclusive. People wont die in hell. The dominion over death is part of our heritage. Death cant take me, I reign over death. Immortality is at work in me.

1 Cor. 15:25-26
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. [26] The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Who even brought all these topic here?. This is no place for such deep matters. I dont even know if you guys are spirit filled. How will you understand truth. Paul had enough trouble communicating deep truth to corinthians that were filled with the spirit. How much more those who cant define faith and understand simple truth about authority of the believeres

aletheia:
What anti-faith websites. Go study your bible and stop spewing forth programmed responses.
More confusion being exhibited here. What are you saying? The man didn't die? You are repeating your master's lies. In my book anyone who tells me the opposite of what God wrote in the bible is of the devil! Can you begin to see that Adam did not live up to one prophetic day? Incidentally Ps 90 deals with Man's mortality.

I hope this meat is not too strong for you?
What scripture says God intended for man to eat from the tree of knowledge of Good & Evil? You utter lies from the pit of hell. Again for your edification, it is written:
You and your friend mba emeka keep referring to this as if by persisting in your heretical mormon-gnosticism you feel you are handling strong meat (i.e. have some form of knowledge available only to initiates). But of course this is the MO of gnostic teachers who delight in claiming some form of occult revealed knowledge.
If you must know I have read books by the aforementioned including Benny Hinn of the "nine persons in the trinity dogma" and even have a few in my library. Their doctrines led me into serious trouble.

I dont subscribe to mormon doctrines, The mormrons believe God was once a human being.That is a lie . It is against what the bible teaches, The gnostics have a form of truth but they dont have the truth. But what baffles me is that some of these false religion have some level of truth than some so called christians.


Let me help you out here. I was only using children language because of your level of understanding. Adam died instantly he ate the fruit. The death was not a physical death, Man is a spirit. God is a spirit, he created man a spirit also. he put man in physical clay. The body of clay is not the man. God didnt create man to live for only 1000 years. You are using your own head knowledge there. God created man to live for ever. Death was not Gods plan. Adam died spiritualy that day. Spiritual death is a separation from God.

That is why a man has to be born twice. The moment a man receives Christ ,life comes into him. Spiritual death was instant, and recieving life in Christ is intant also. You dont get born again gradually. God didnt teach on gradual death. or gradual salvation.

Everybody is born dead in sin. A man has to be born righteous also.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Enigma:
However, we do not make it happen because we believe or because we have faith; it is for the One we believe to make it happen. That is faith.

I know that the WoFers will bring up the Jesus' saying "faith as a mustard seed/say to mountain move"; I will wait for them on that one --- because I'm convinced that when they do, they will by their own words reveal their error and misunderstanding.

Anyway, the cardinal WoF error on faith is to say that you use faith as a force to make things happen. It becomes like incantation or the equivalent of magic mumbo jumbo abracadabra. The worse thing, as I alluded to above, is that this error in itself stems from a worse heresy ---- the equation of man with God/Deity/Divinity and the further erroneous belief that the exercise of power by that Being is done "by faith"!

The will of God will not come to pass by itsel. Your faith is what will make it happen. It is not God desire for any man to perish. But many are perishing why? Umbelief and ignorance. Having awareness of what God can do or what God has promomised is not enough. You are the God to your own world , you have the responsibility to enforce the will of the father there . Don't you know there are devils out there. You stand your ground by faith. You express your faith by your mouth.

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Mat 21:21
saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away! 21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this [which is done] to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done

aletheia:
While claiming that they believe in Jesus as the only begotten Son, WoF then go about repudiating that belief by their doctrines of "I am a god" thus negating the uniqueness of Jesus' Incarnation.
In this last days a question for the WoF crowd who claim to have faith.

Point of correction :Who says Jesus is the only begotten? What about me? I'm I not begotten?
He used to be the only begotten. His title has changed now that I am begotten also.He is now first born no longer the only child.

Rom 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Where have I been, How come I didn't see this thread

@ viaro

viaro:
You're right: after reading a few of Benny Hinn's and Kenyon's books, my perception about them changed and I have never recovered from that! I used to respect them; but after reading directly from them, I was shamed to see them for the sham they are! That does not make me call any true Christian a 'fool' - I regard as foolish only those people who have eyes to see and will yet blind themselves to the heresies of these men.

If you really read Benniny Hinn and Kenyon books as you claim, I will like you to honestly say what it was they taught that change your perception.
thanks

I dont believe in Mormonism or Gnosticm , But if they have any form of truth , it does happen. There are some form of truths here and there, even in other faith but that doesnt mean they know the truth.

There are different classes of use of the word God for man. If I may say;Those who have recieved his word. Those who are born of him and Those who by the virtue of knowledge  grow up into him.

In my earlier post ,I talked abot the use of the word god. I said God created man to rule over thee earth as a God(Elohim) That was Gods plan to Man.

Altheia said there is only one God. I agree with you. But where does Jesus fall and the holyghost? If you understand truth ,you will really know that Jesus was really your brother.

Well ,for these OT folks , the class of God they funtion in was far different from what Jesus brought to us as New creation in Christ. Adam was forbidden to eat of The tree of life . So all of them that came through him never partook of God's life.
That was why God sent the second Adam which also was last Adam ,Man's last hope.

John 1:4
   In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

This life is God's kind of life, his nature .

John 5:26
   For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Sonship with God goes beyond birth but it makes reference to maturity. We grow into sonship.It means just  like the father. The Son does what the father does. You  cant separate the father  from the Son.God is a judge , his Son must be a judge also.

[color=#990000]John 5:22-23
   For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: [23] That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.

John 5:27
   And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the[b] Son of man( anthropos)[/b]. [/color]

This is not the the son trying to usurp authority but just becoming the fathers dream. We are to judge the world

John 5:30
   I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

So you see,It is one of the qualities of God and his Sons to judge.

1 Cor. 2:15
   But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1 Cor. 6:2-3
   Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? [3] Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

We are not trying to claim Gods glory here, he gave it to us. we just accept who we are ,thats all.

John 17:22
   And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
being born again is not an end but rather the begining, We need to grow in the knowledge of our didvinity. We are not of this world. If you believe you are of the world , you will be subject to the laws of this life, sickness and all. but when you wake up to the divine life within, you will be changed.

The life Jesus brougth to us is based on knowledge.Things cant change until there is a renewal of the mind by the word of God. We have divinity as our nature in him.

2 Peter 1:4
   Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

John 17:14
   I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:16
   They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Whats he talking about here.A divine life that trascend human  (anthropos) life. We have divine nature and its only a message like this that will get you to function in it. That is why Jesus said those who believe this truth, " if they drink any deadly thing , it would not hurt them". How many Christians today have died of poisoning, Why? because they know not and they understood not. and they walsed on in darkness.
This is the message that will prepare the church for the rapture. We must grow into him in all areas as his sons

Ephes. 4:15
   But speaking the truth in love, may[b] grow up into him in all things,[/b] which is the head, even Christ:

Ephes. 4:13
   Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

This can only take place through knowlegde. the life is knowledge based.

John 17:3
   And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

John so much meditated on the teaching of Christ ,he was the closest apostle to Jesus , his writings were different. He understood the message of this life. Read the gospel of John allover and his epistle . he medidtated so much on this life in christ to the extent that it became hard for him to die.evn though he wanted to die, he couldnt. We are not playing religion here. We a divine but there is need for growth in that truth.

1 Cor. 3:3
   For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?[ Anthropos]  

He has brought us to the place of union with Godhead!

John 17:21-22
   That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. [22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

What the church need in this age is the knowledge of who we are.If you understand this , you can work miracles easily, cast out devils easily. Ask those people in those anti faith websites can they cast out devils? Mba!

@ viaro and Altheia , The anti faith websites you guys are visiting has clouded your mind from the truth. Those websites are Satanic, false brethren. How can someone be teaching against faith and authority of the believers.

aletheia:
Before now I had thought that you were maybe a Christian brother gone astray, but it is evident to me that you are no Christian but a neo-gnostic with shades of Mormon mythology thrown in.
You imply that God intended Adam to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? You are under a strong delusion for no where does the bible say what you say above.
You in fact say the direct opposite of what God reveals in his word thus showing that you are most certainly not a follower of Jesus Christ.
So you are saying that God didn't really mean it when He told Adam that "in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die". What difference is there between what you said from the serpent's:
Who is it that opposes God? You know the answer to that.

God told Adam he would die if he ate the fruit. So did he die? God said he would die that very day , So did he die that very day? Did God lie?.

God spoke in the language the man would understand. Adam was not a perfect man ( I mean maturity) Bible schollars call that time. Dispensation of innocense. He was not yet matured or trained.You tell a little child that blade is dangerous ,going to the road is dangerous. Some mothers tells their little girls that playing with boys will get them pregnant , without explaining details because the innocent child would not understant details . So you give them rules: don't go out. Don't touch razorblade. That doesn't make razor bad. It was not the content of the fruit that was the problem but the disobedience. He ate it at the Devil's command but not at God's command. The fruit was actually meant for man but he ate it prematurely.I don't know how many months or years they were in the garden under training . But God had told them to reproduce children . How come they did not? Why did he put them only in a garden when his desire was for them to replenish the entire earth? For all the days , weeks or months they were confined in that garden they didn't touch each other, they did not even know they were naked! Why ? It was not time . They were to judge angels and other fallen beings As God but they didn't even know good and evil. ( justice)

Heb 5:14
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

You can seen that the ability to jugde good and evil is a mark of maturity and not negative.The secret of their producing children is in the fruit. The secret of the knowledge of judgement was in it too. They still had tree of life to eat after their maturity but God had to prevent them from eating the other tree of life . He had to sent them out because if they had proceeded in their fallen nature to go ahead and eat of the tree of life , man will remain in that fallen state perpetually . There would be no salvation or redemption . God had to prepare another Adam as man's last hope JESUS. To take back for us what the devil stole. How come it is easier for you to accept the devil as god of this world and cannot accept the people that it was meant for.God gave back the whole world to us through Abtaham. If you are seed of Abraham you own the world. Joint heirs with Christ.

Rom 4:13
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

@Viaro and Aletheia :A word of advise, Your criticism of teachers of faith are based on those nonsence sites you're quoting from. Why don't you do an independent research yourself . Have you read any Benny Hinn books or Kenyon? If you do, your perception will change. If you visit anti bible site and you've not read the bible, you may call Christians fools.

viaro:
There's a simple question I would like to ask those inclined to the teachings of WOF movement:

@fyneguy
@jaffi
@mba emeka
@Joagbaje
@. . and others :::

When WOF teachers say "I am a God" or "I am a god" or "we are gods", are you saying that makes you a DEITY?

That is as simply as I can put it, and your answers will help us keep this thread neat and free from unnecessary distrations. Thank you.

Anyone who hails from God is  a God, Well let me use small letter g for now but you know that bible didnt put small lettes or big. it simply used the word "elohim" So whoever hails from God is God or a god. That was the destiny of man , to function as God. Adam was made a god in the world.  He was to grow to maturity and eat of the 2 significant trees in the garden , namely; tree of knowledge of good and evil and tree of life.  God was training this man


Genesis 2:19-20
   And out of the ground the Lord[b] God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them:[/b] and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. [20] And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

Man was to judge lucifer and other fallen beings(1cor 6). That was the reason for the tree in the first place. As a judge he needs to have knowledge of good and evil. You need to know also that those who deputise for God in judgement were also called gods(Elohim) in the bible .


Exodus 7:1
   And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Psalm 82:1
   A Psalm of Asaph.
   God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Exodus 21:6
   Then his master shall bring him unto the judges[b]{ ELOHIM}[/b]; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

the word for judges up here is Elohim,

So we have classes of gods
Those born of God, Those who mature in God. Those who have recieved the word of God.

Psalm 82:6
   I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

John 10:34-35
   Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? [35] If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

I will come back to explain , my laptop battery is beeping.

The purpose of the teaching on prosperity is not to make people pursue after vanities of life but to let people know what is their's in God and that there is no longer a limitation to Their God given blessings. They still have their descisions to make. Just like some will marry some will not marry by choice to the glory of God. But those who want to Marry should know they have right to marry. Thesame thing with prosperity.

Evil people don't live longer. Every man is under the control of Satan , except he receieves salvation through Christ. Another thing is that longevity is not the sign of quality . Jesus died because that was why he came ; to die and resurect so that we may have life.  It is a matter of choice how long you want to live . A Born again man has dominion over death. He determine if he has to die or not.

1 Cor3:21
Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;

Death shouldn't take a Christian he has dominion over death . If he choose to , he may command his own death. Jesus laid down his life. Death didn't take him.

John 10:17
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

Early apostles also commanded their own death. Paul in philipians was contemplating either he should die now or not.

Phil 1:23
For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh [is] more needful for you.25 And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;

He decided to stay arround for more time to build the brethren. But later in life , when he felt he was through, he decided to depart. Even though he was killed , It was his choice.He laid his life down.

2Tim 4:6
For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished [my] course, I have kept the faith:

The quality of life is not in how long, but how fulfiled. The purpose of a man's life is the paramount thing. When you have fulfilled your mission . The rest is left for you . According to your faith, if you want to live 100 years or more. But a man has to be bor. Again first before he can fulfilled his purpose.

jagunlabi:
The question now is, "where is the universal/cosmic law that says that a creator has to be only good 100% of the time?".Is it good to be good 100% of the time or is it bad?
Does it serve the right purpose to create a world that is all good and no negative?Ofcourse, this leads us to the question of what the purpose of the creation of the physical universe really serves.It all hinges on the purpose of creation which still remain, to a very large extent, shrouded in complete mystery.

I don't know if I got you right but what I feel you're trying to say is that it would have been a dull world if everything is just good without the balance of evil . I my asumptioN is right, then I have this to say. God doesn't need balance of evil to make life beautiful. The purpose of creation was to serve him and give him pleasure.
.
Rev 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

The challenge between good and evil is a distruption in Gods plan. After this age is over . There will be an age where evil will be no more . This will be the real beauty of existence.

Rev 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Satan as lucifer was created good , all things that God made was good, until Satan corrupted his anointing and reveled against God, he use the power of God for evil .

Ezekiel 28:14-19
Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.15 Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

YE ARE GODS

There is difference between lucifer trying to be like God and Man who God has made in his image. Adam was created in the image and likeness to function like God . As a matter of fact Adam was created to be God of this world.
But he lost the glory before he could finish his training.so Adam did not fully mature in the image of God.

Psalm 115:16
The heaven, [even] the heavens, [are] the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

Man was creted to be superior to Satan and angels. Satan had angelic power but Adamic authority God gave man was higher than angelic power. When Satan made Adam fall, he took over Adamic power, that was what made Satan "God of this world".

2Cor 4:3,4
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


Satan began to function in Adamic power.That was why he could come into the presence of God in Job. Because Adamic power was superior to angelic power.He knew the potential of man but helped him destroy it. He did not lie to eve in a sense.

Gen 3:5[/b]
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

This was Gods plan for man to function in the class of God as sons . God didnt deny the fact.
Gen 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The Adamic power lucifer gained made it impossible for man to defeat him  and made it impossible for angels to defeat him either. Angel micheal once defeated lucifer in heaven but when Satan gained Adamic power micheal could not stand him because now he had a higher authority . Remember the scenario when he was sent to prevent Satan from stealing the body of Moses. He couldn't fight him as he did before , he had to use a higher name. Angels don't toy with spiritual authority. He treated Satan with respect!

Jude 1:8
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

But this authority belong to man. Except that he lost it prematurely to Satan.That was why when Jesus came as our representative being the second Adam ,Satan had the audacity to demand worship.

Luke 4:5,6
And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
And  said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me . ; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

But what he didn't know was that Jesus came as a new Adam , he didn't have the nature of sin . He was a son of God. The term used for sonship denotes class. A son of God means "In the class of God" Adam was also called Son of God.

Luke 3:38
Adam, which was [the son] of God.
Dogs gives birth to dogs, monkey gives birth to monkey, God gave birth to his likeness.

1John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.

Anything that comes from God is God . The word of God is God. When the word of God comes to you , It makes you in his likeness. If you are born again , you become as holy as God is , as righteous as he is because you have his nature .

IJohn 4:17 
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world  .

The jews understood this  when Jesus said he was son of God , it meant equality with the father. They were mad.

[color=#990000]John 10:34,35
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

David said prophetically in psalms " ye are gods but ye shall die like men" he explained the reason in the preceding verses . He said because they knew not , they understood not , they walk on in darkness.That is why they die like men.

It important to know that a new creation In christ right now has atttained what Adam couldn't attain. He is superior to Adam, he is superior to Satan . He is a partaker of the life and nature of God the father .

1pet1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature,

Deep Sight:
Sat down at the right hand side of whom - himself? ? ? ? ?

I laugh.

Right hand side is not making reference t a geographical position but rather a spirituual position of authority. Is like calling someone your righthand man. It doesnt mean Jesus is seated at right side chair. Dont take it literary

Ephes. 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

If we should take this literary ,Are you in heaven now?

Deep Sight:
I have asked you and i am still asking: in which of those verses did Jesus ever say that he WAS God? ? ? ? ?
Now please show me where Jesus affirmed His deity and said that He WAS God in any verse - just show the verse.
Joker.

Jesus did not need to claim he was God , there is no point asking for verses on that. He is not the one to bear witness of himself.He was a focused person. He would rather refer you to testimony of others concernig him.

The book of Isaiah had testified of him before;

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

When John sent people to confirm his messiaship he only made reference to the testimony of Isaiah: He didnt say I am Messiah or I am not.

Luke 7:20
When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? [22] Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

He doesnt bear witness of himself.He will rather refer to the witness of God through others

John 5:31-32
If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
[32] There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

So if you want to know if je was God check the witnesses of the father through the prophets about him
but if you are just concerned about his personal claim to be God ,like those muslim schollars , it is waste of time because his purpose was not to come as God even though he is God. he is more concerned about his humanity as man's representative being the Last Adam.

1 John 4:2-3
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: [3] And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

But was he God ? Yes he was and he is. how do you know? from the witnesses of others.

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Col. 1:16-17
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Pastor AIO
E nle mbeun oo. Wetin you dey do for awo shrine. I thought you be PASTOR. Abi na Ifa pastor?

Pastor AIO
E nle mbeun oo. Wetin you dey do for awo shrine. I thought you be PASTOR. Abi na Ifa pastor?