₦airaland Forum

redsun:
Won't the acceptance of offerings from prolific thieves and looters like obasanjo,ibori,ikimi,ibb and the rest of the ruling elite thieves in nigeria make not just the church overseer but the whole church body including christ accessories to crimes?

I think it's time the so-called christian bodies call a spade a spade and join in the fight against endemic corruptions,shun and speak out against the nigerian monstrous distractors instead of welcoming them with open hands as illustrious citizen.

Could jesus have taken offerings from Ceaser or herod?

A pastor teaches people to live right in the society, The church is the ground and pillar of truth. The church is the last hope of reformation for people.
It is not a pastors place to determine which money is given in church, Of course the bible is against money from questionable sources. There is difference between money given to God and money given to pastor. A pastor may reject money given to him from questionable source if he is uncomfortable with it.but if it an offering to God in Church he has no right to tell a man not to give to God, It is between whoever and God.

KunleOshob:
And the debate goes on and some would even deny the existence of fake pastors when the bible makes it clear that their would be tonnes of them we truly live in very interesting times. Prosperity Pastors today openly deny the very christ they claim to serve by their action and false teachings.

2 Peter 2:1-3:
1 But there were also false prophets in Israel, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them. In this way, they will bring sudden destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered. 3 In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

Titus 1:16:
16 Such people claim they know God, but they deny him by the way they live. They are detestable and disobedient, worthless for doing anything good.

Mr Kunle , I would want you to be clear on this. Are you saying th is wrong to give money in churches? is it unscriptural.

Dolemite:
Before a preacher puts anyone on tv claiming a miracle; Collect past tests that prove the person had ailment in question, conduct recent test that proves that the ailment has indeed been healed.
Are you kidding me? his 'medical personnel' happens to be his brother who prevents the truly sick from coming on stage, only people who claim to be healed. Notice he never actually prays for people to become healed on stage, that is because sick people are not allowed on stage, his thugs keep you out.
This man claims to see angels in his congregation but couldn't see a hidden camera in the clothing of a reporter. . .was God sleeping to allow this deceit?

What of those who never had medical record. Of course he doesn pray for the sick one on one most time, If he has to pray for each person one on one, He would require several hours .He only invoke the the pressence of God through worship and prays a mass prayer. It is not everybody that get healed ofcourse but he glorifies God for the miracles they see, and  ofcourse the ushers will prevent someone who is not healed to come up stage, he only takes testimonies on stage from those who get healed.

I saw the picture of "jesus" ppeared on my wall! how did you do that?

Dolemite:
First of all lets take Benny Hinn, a 'man of God' who claimed to see angels in his church services where he performs 'miracles'. These miracles have not been investigated by any doctor, even though he lied that they are. Once a news reporter investigating this case installed a tiny camera on her button, went up to the alter and said she was healed of cancer, he does his thing where he blows her, she falls, praise the lord. . . without even verifying the case he takes that footage and puts on the opening of his 'this is your day' tv show, the reporter said no one ever called her to verify her claim. Imagine the number of people decieved by this act? If this man is of God surely the holy spirit would have told him the true identity of the news reporter. A man who sees angels in his services?

It is the reporter that is FALSE. She made false claim why blame the man of God? If someone says a lump has disaapeared from her body,how do you verify that medically. Some come there with medical papers ,others come without any, But they still have medical personel there that will ask them what miracle they recieve, make them do what they couldnt do before , and if they look convincing enough , they allow them to go up and testify. Benny hinn or any healing minister will only thank God for it. So does that make him false. You seem to be celebrating the fasle person who is the reporter as hero.

viaro:
This is why I have been waiting for your answers to these questions -

[list](a) what is the meaning of "only begotten" in reference to Jesus Christ?

(b) what is the meaning of "firstbegotten" in reference to Jesus Christ?

(c) do you find anyone else described as "only begotten" in the same way as Jesus is?

(d) do the terms "only begotten" and "firstbegotten" mean the same things to you?

(e) when was Jesus Christ called "the only begotten" - before or after His resurrection?[/list]

You have time to preach your WOF propaganda touted as 'truth' that is too much for 'religious individuals' - so why is your 'strong truth' unable to address those simple questions? Just make an attempt, if you may, so we could help solve your problem for you.

Your questions are insultive to me , your post likewise.

2 Tim. 2:23-24
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. [24] And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

If I have a honest question , I will gladly and eagerly answer. I have answered part of your question in my post to Babaearly.

Dolemite:
Do you read the bible? are you a bible believing Christian? it's so God damned obvious. . .

I read my bible well ,and the people you mentioned are gret men of God, so what makes them ffake or false prophet, You should know that many people believe in the ministry of these men, so if you say they are false prohet you should explain biblically what they did wrong.

ogajim:
I don't know how Joagbaje can be dismissive of the points raised without substantiating his position! Name some pastors you think "are called to build lives" and some folks will name some that are doing the exact opposite.

Ok lets take TD Jakes for example, I know he builds life and Benny hinn

Dolemite:
You are very wrong, didn't the bible say false prophets shall arise? as a sign of the end times?
T.D Jakes, Creflo Dollar, Benny hinn. . .in fact 90% of pastors on the TBN network.

what makes them false prophets?

A true minister does not need bigger churches, People start churches for different reasons, some good some, well ,I shouldnt judge anybody, but if a man is really called of God , God will help him, The ability is in the calling. If there is any one else that a minister should be consult, it should be the man of God under whom he must have served.

2 Kings 3:11
Here is Elisha the son of Shaphat, which poured water on the hands of Elijah.

Grace pass to a minister through, service. Some minister today dont want to serve anybody. That is why they are struggling. You cant handle authority if you cant be under authority.

Luke 16:12
And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?

pauli coco:
many CCC parishes are filled up with hypocrites and wolves behind sheeps clothes, but those kind of people also exist in pentecostal and catholic churches. The reason why people fornicate and commit adultry in CCC is because the majority people share the yuroba background, I AM sorry to say, but most yurobas are known for their rough lifestyle, having women/or men here and there,

u hardly find sheperds or elders commiting adultry in CCC parishes in edo state or other parts of nigeria

The lifestyle of members in a church is not what determins if the church is good or not. but rather what the doctrine of the church is. what is there concept of Jesus. Who is he to them.
1 John 4:2-3 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: [3] And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

[color=#990000[b]]2 John 1:7 [/b]
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. [/color]

You should not judge a minister just by the lifestyle of some members, If we have to do that, Jesus will be the first fake minister. He made thief to be the treasurer or financial secretary of his ministry!(judas) EFCC should investigate him!. The Church is not for perfect people but for perfecting people.

ogajim:
I came across this recently in a Nigerian publication and thought I should pass it on and see where the debate leads:

(1) His Sermons/messages are always on happiness, joy and says God is always merciful to forgive sins, He is FAKE

(2) A pastor that 99% of his message is about things of this World- mansions, prosperity, cars, etc. If he is to give testimony about proof of his ministry, it is about the latest cars, houses, clothes or places he has visited.

(3) Pastors doesn't talk about Heaven and doesn't direct peoples' heart to God and only preaches God as a father Christmas; messages mostly on what God can do for you and not what you can do for God, does not tell you to repent and get out of unGodliness and do what's right.

(4) Every Sermon ends in offering or raising money, almost everything can be redeemed with money

(5) Pastor whose church members live very unrighteous public and private lives.

Try and apply these and see how many pastors survive this scrutiny,

This nonsense does not apply to any pastor, It is from the imagination of the mischievous individual that wrote it. Pastors are called to build lives.

viaro:
That's what is commonly called the Shema - google up if you want more info; otherwise be specific and let's know what exactly you have in mind. The Shema does not give you grounds to arrogate divine titles or appellations to yourself.

Jesus is God. Should I take it that your question {"If Jesus is God and lord also"} implies that you no longer believe that Jesus is God?

I dont know what you are calling popular shema here. The point of my question is , do you believe there is only one God according to deut 6:4? and if your answ1er is yes, then what do you have to say about the deity of jesus ?. are there two Gods? So i dont understand your Shema answer. Give a direct respose.

babaearly:
@joagbaje
if you are only begotten too like Christ, would i be wrong to call u Christ or God?

I didnt say I am only begotten. I was only correcting Altheia, that Jesus is no longer the only begotten, I joint heir with him .I am begotten of Gods word also. He was only begotten before I came on the scene, Now he is first begotten .
When he rose from the dead, I rose with him . His beign called only begotten was before his death. But after resurrection, We share thesame image and glory. I am his brother.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

It is hard truth for religious individuals

InesQor:
What poison? The questions below will remind you of  your first four posts on this thread:

And you have some unanswered questions, Joagbaje:

Davidylan asked
Aletheia asked
Aletheia asked again
Enigma asked
And I asked
Where are the answers?

It seems to don't give details to readings . I answered the ones that made a little sense. Should I answer Davidylia where I was in genesis?  Well by the way , that only buttres my point the more . Did the will of God come to pass for Adam? His question didn't make sense. The only reason for second Adam was that the first one fell out of Gods will.
I answered altheia , the quote of James was not for the matured. Pls read my reply to him. If I see any inteligent and sincere question , I will respond .

2Ti 2:23
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

InesQor:
If you want to poison your household's water, please feel free. But if I see anyone placing lethal stuff in the public community water, I will not keep quiet. Please keep your views to your congregations.

what poison? Don't just throw words arround like the others. All the things , I shared are in your bible so what poison are you refering to . Deal with specifics.

mabell:
@ inesQor
are there two words of faith and which one is the other one ?

These religious folks only use the term to hide their cowardice . Which one is wof or wofer . Have I or anyone claimed membership of any association called WOF. when these religious folks get stuck , the start using WOF as a cover. I only have my bible , if you have any inteligent thing to share , open your bible . They from my point of view lack the spirit of God . How can a Christian be throwing abuses and insults in Jesus name. It just shows how babysh they are.

2Ti 2:24
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Instead of learning they enter name calling WOF , WOFFER maybe soon WAFFERS!

viaro:
@Joabgaje, a few questions:

(a) what is the meaning of "only begotten" in reference to Jesus Christ?

(b) what is the meaning of "firstbegotten" in reference to Jesus Christ?

(c) do you find anyone else described as "only begotten" in the same way as Jesus is?

(d) do the terms "only begotten" and "firstbegotten" mean the same things to you?

(e) when was Jesus Christ called "the only begotten" - before or after His resurrection?

If you can answer these simple questions, then your problem will come to light. If you cannot, then perhaps your choice is to remain in your dark arguments.

Where did you read these from the Bible?

Where in the Bible did you read that?

Where in the Bible did you read such things?

Childish babyish questions as usual, Well I wouldnt mind answering to help you anyway if your questions were honest and sincere but the maggots you stored inside of you are already spilling out and giving you away.

2 Tim. 2:23
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

@aletheia

Your ignorace is appaling,

aletheia:
1. You know. . .the Word of God is truth and consistent. You only end up tying up yourself in illogicality and conundrums when you try to twist scripture. You cannot even give a clear and lucid answer based on scripture. You claimed that praying "Your will be done" was for immature, not born again JewsAnd it was pointed out to you:And he practiced what he taught
1. So how come Jesus who is the only begotten Son, who has the Spirit without measure prayed that God's will be done? Was he an immature baby? Your words not mine.
2. You wrote: "The will of God does not always come to pass until you cooperate with God ". This statement is at the core of you heretical worldview which sees God as wimp who cannot act without your cooperation or consent.
Again for you edification, God is Sovereign and whether you cooperate or not, his will will come to pass.3. Matt 6: 8-10 makes the following clear:
a. Our Father knows what we need before you ask him.
b. We are not God (He is our Father in heaven - Sovereign above all) - thus we are limited in our knowledge. We cannot know what we need before we even know that we need it.
c. Seeing that God knows best, we can only ask that His Will be done if we truly are walking by faith, as that is the best possible thing. (^{But I forget that you WoF crowd are "gods"})
4. You will be unable to refute this scriptures so you will retreat into bombast and start talking about "strong meat, lesser truth and greater truth"

You obviously have an unscriptural view of faith. The epistle by James is part of the canon, holy writ. And that includes James the brother of our Lord! The same James acknowledged by Paul as one of the pillars of the church.[i]Only a DECEIVER like you, one under a strong delusion will write this rubbish:[/i]This appeal to lesser truth, greater truth and degrees of revelation is the classic MO of you gnostics. You are a ravening wolf in sheep's clothing preying on the flock.

Point of correction, Jesus is not the only begotten , .Every christian is begooten by the word. Jesus is no longer only begotten but now he is first begotten.We are his brothers!

Your lack of understanding of the true message makes it hard for you to descern the difference between truth and lesser truths. The fact that James was brother of Jesus should not be an issue. There is a saying that "The age of Methuselah can not be compared to the wisdom of Solomon"  It is childish to use the relationship of Jesus with james as legality or endorsement for James teaching. We judge all things according to the whole body of truth.not with your miopic religious eyes.
James was not part of the 12 deciples of Christ, There is no record of his conversion before Jesus went to the cross. record we have was that he and his brother Jude i think did not believe in Jesus.

John 7:5
    For neither did his brethren believe in him.

James was one of the last  apostles to be converted, He was a kind of principality in the early church and he troubled the ministry of Paul a littlel, People feared him. James did not have deep knowledge of grace and justification  like Paul did.

James 2:21
    Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Contrast it with Paul's teaching here

Romans 4:2-3
    For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. [3] For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 3:28
    Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Who's teaching would you rather follow. I wont be suprised if you follow James here because he was "teacher of babe" but I will rather follow teaching of Paul. James still believed in the works of the law. he had good dctrines but he was religious like some nairalanders here. James still teach that a man must be circumcised according to the law to be saved.He terrorised the early church with his teachings in his ignorance that Peter the great apostle was afraid of him.

Galatians 2:11-16
    But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. [12] For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. [13] And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. [14] But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? [15] We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, [16] Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

So if you are a follower of James, your life is a vapour!  according to his teachings. But if you believe in the message of Paul, we are growing up to the fullness of christ.

Ephes. 4:13
    Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

You said truth is contant .You are wrong there again. There are lesser truth and greater truths. That is why peter recomended milk and Paul recommended meat

1 Peter 2:2
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Hebrews 5:13
For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

@ Enigma

Enigma:
OK a simple exercise for you.
Jesus certainly taught His disciples to pray "Thy will be done"! We have clear evidence of that!
Where did Jesus ever teach that the will of God will not come to pass without your cooperation?

You dont need Jesus to teach on that, it is a clear principle in the word. So where did Jesus teach you to go to Church on sundays? You answer me.
The issue about the will of God are based on spiritual principles. Let me give you few instances.
God told Moses to bring the people out of Egypt into the promised land. Did his will come to pass for Moses?


Exodus 3:10
Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt.

Moses made an irreversable mistake and died in the wilderness. But he was the chosen person to bring them into the promised land. So what happened to God's sovereignty? what will be will be.

Another example , God told the israelites to go and posess the land, and that even though they have chariots of iron, they would fall before israel. But did the will of God come to pass?

Joshua 17:18
But the mountain shall be thine; for it is a wood, and thou shalt cut it down: and the outgoings of it shall be thine: for thou shalt drive out the Canaanites, though they have iron chariots, and though they be strong.

Judges 1:19
And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

So what happened to God's sovereignty here. The will of God will only come to pass by your faith.

@aletheia

aletheia:
@Joagbaje - you are a deceiver.
You have come again with your repulsive and repugnant heresies. Here is what is written in scripture:
Jesus taught his disciples (you are obviously not one of his disciples) to pray thus:And he practiced what he taught1. So how come Jesus who is the only begotten Son, who has the Spirit without measure prayed that God's will be done? Was he an immature baby? Your words not mine.
2. You wrote: "The will of God does not always come to pass until you cooperate with God ". This statement is at the core of you heretical worldview which sees God as wimp who cannot act without your cooperation or consent.
Again for you edification, God is Sovereign and whether you cooperate or not, his will will come to pass.3. Matt 6: 8-10 makes the following clear:


I leave you with this quiz:
Who was James talking to?

You have a habit of mis representing my posts. And you these insults of calling me deceiver , liar is uncalled for in a forum. It is a display of imaturity.

But hear this , the will of God will not come to pass , withouth your cooperation. And that cooperation is FAITH.
You must first know his will. Jesus knew his will. But we have the responsibility to allow it to happen or not. Jesus temptation was real , If he had failed, that would have been it for him as us probably. His obedience made him win , if he had not obeyed , he would have failed. How many people today have died without fulfiling Gods will.Where was God sovereignty? Was hell created for man ? "No" But men are going there, Where is Gods sovereignty?
We can get ourselves in the way of Gods plan. by our flesh and senses. Jesus was man and his flesh was getting in the way of Gods will. Jesus was not giving us an example of the idea of lords prayer, in his hour of temptation. His flesh was getting on the way , He was not ignorant of tommorow ,he knew the will of God but his flesh was not cooperating with the will , He asked if there were other options because he knew what he had to go through. It was like someone that is sick and he prefered drugs instead of injection, and hes asking the doctor ," cant i just take pills" if the doctor says this is the only way , then so be it, That was the situation with Christ. when he said let thy will be done , he was merely affirming the fact that this is the only way.

Matthew 26:42
He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

So what was he saying , " If this is the only way forward , Lets do it" He knew the future he knew the will .He had a choice for or against. But the person that is confused not knowing what tommorrow brings. , Not knowing if God wants him healed, not knowing if God wants him to prosper , is certainly not in faith.

Now you quoted james for my meditation

James 4:14
Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.


my question to you is , Is your life a vapour. Jesus died only to make your life a vapour!. James walked in the lesser truth but Paul walked in greater truth than James. If you study their epistles well ,you would have observed that paul had enough trouble with James level of ignorance, even though he taught some things that were good. They had many disagreements. James was wrong there, because we have the holy spirit to reveal Gods mind to us.

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1 John 2:20
But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

Does that soun like your James? You ought to know his will an fulfill it. And when we use the word "will" it is only in generic terms, if we get deeper , there is more to it. There are different meanings but one major truth is that God does not want us to be ignorant of his will

Acts 22:14
And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.

And it is your responsibility to ensure it comes to pass.

Col. 4:17
And say to Archippus, Take heed to the ministry which thou hast received in the Lord, that thou fulfil it.

That was exactly what Jesus did , he ensured that he fulfilled it. It is not the responsibility of Gods sovereignty.

The first thing you should realise is that there are different levels of spiritual maturity, and when you read a scripture you should be able to decode whom it is meant for. There are lesser light and greater lights , there are lesser truths and greater truths in God. There is a level of baby hood and at that point it was normal to talk as a child , God will answer. Your little chiild may say "tata" instead of "water" You will answer anyhow because as a child it is acceptable. If your prayer is the so called "the lords prayer" you are a baby. It can carry you for a while but not for too long. Jesus relaled with his disciples at different levels. And these different levels, there were different levels of truth he taught them. He called them children, servants , but before he left them , his teachings had to get deeper, he had to change their status spiritually so as to know deeper things.He stopped calling them servants in relationship.He called them friends

John 15:15
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

You see God does not want his children to remain babies.
1[b] Cor. 13:11 [/b]
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

I believe in the submission to the will of God, I shouldnt be misunderstood. If you read my post well ,you would see it. What is wrong is the idea of resigning to fate in the name of "let thy will be done" as though the will of God is one mysterious thing. Which the op was sugesting. You have people say may be the sickness in their body is his will, maybe it is not his will for them tto be healed , That is what im adressing.You should know the will of God. Nothing should take a spiritual man by suprise! Good or Bad!. You must know his will for you, and and take the responsibilty to make it come to pass. We came to do his will, we pray in line with his will. The best way to pray his will is to pray in tongues.
Romans 8:26-27
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. [27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

The op is sugesting resigning to faith , that is what I am against and I saud it clearly that i believe in submission to Gods will. I will be mad to believe otherwise.

@ Viaro

viaro:
I have answered and will answer again: Absolutely YESES!
Now viaro again: Three YESES - Jesus is God.
So, Joagbaje, what's next up your sleeves?

What is next up my sleeves is for you to tell me what you make of Deut 6:4

Deut. 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

If jesus is God and lord also, more with the consederation of what God expressly stated in Isaiah 48:11

Isaiah 48:11
I will not give my glory unto another.

@ttalks
wonderful drawing . I will like to see your drawing of the Godhead too!

Let Viaro answer

The prayer is for babies, It is not for a born again mature man. It was taught to jewish people who were not born again. So I can say to a great extent it is not a Christian prayer. Even though it containts great principles . Using the phrase let you will be done is like saying "What will be will be" But what will be will not be until you do something about your faith.  The will of God is not suppposed to be a mysterious thing to you. You have the holyghost and you are supposed to know his will, not only that , you are responsible to make his will come to pass in your life. The will of God does not always come to pass until you cooperate with God .

John 16:13
    Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1 Cor. 2:16
    For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Psalm 25:14
    The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.


John 15:15
    Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

As much as there is place of submission to Gods will but it should not be misunderstood as submitting fate.We are supposed to know his will.

Col. 1:9
    For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that[b] ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding[/b];

@viaro

viaro:
Are you expecting me to write a whole encyclopedia? Look sir, writing exegesis on them is unnecessary, for none of those verses warrants any Christian calling himself or herself "deity" or "Christ".

You have written longer ones than these . I'm not really disappointed , I don't really feel you would be able to explain those scriptures . But if I were you , what I don't know , I would say I don't know instead of arguing ignorantly.
Let me ask you a simpler one : Is Jesus God?

inedi:
pastor joe, please dont mind the likes of viaro, he has just fail to understand that what you dont know is biger than you and that and that as far as naira land is concern viaro is history .Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk [is] unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. {is skillful: Gr. hath no experience}
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. {of full age: or, perfect} {use: or, an habit, or, perfection}viaro is a babe.

I appreciate to be addresed as joagbaje.

But You are right Inedi any knowledge seeking person going through the thread should be clear on this issue at least to a great extent. I have recieved several mails of appreciation for some of these expositions of deep truth. Execpt an insincere individual that will kep asking thesame babish questions over an over, . It is waste of my precious time. especially when Viaro said Matt 24 is talking about the church and not tribulation of Israel . The ignorance and arrogance displayed just put me off.

We are just scratching the surface , there are yet deeper things.What is so had to understand of our union with God and Christ.

Ephes. 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

John 1:16
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

1 John 4:17
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Col. 2:9-10
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. [10] And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Ephes. 1:22-23
The church, Which is his body, the fulness of him

Ephes. 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

John 17:21-23
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. [22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: [23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Viaroooo ,if you are there can you read this scriptures again and explain your understanding.

@Viaro

viaro:
@Joagbaje,

(a) (b)
Matthew 24 speaks to the Church as well. It warns that many false prophets will rise and deceive many people - that warning has been sounded by the apostles who spoke and wrote directly to Christians:

[list]Matthew 24:5, 11 & 24-25
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many . . . And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many . . . For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before.[/list]


So your exegesis of Revelation 19 and Matthew 24 is a clever way to excuse the fact that you make yourself one of those deceivers by calling yourself 'Christ' (doesn't matter whether it is lower or upper case 'c'/'C' - when a man says "I am Christ" as you did, he qualifies himself as a deceiver as in Matt. 24:5, and as a liar as in 1 John 2:22).

1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Ignorance is not absennce of knowledge but but willful rejection of knowledge. Since you have decided to stick to your guns by willful rejection of knowledge , there is no point trying to make you see. I cant argue a man into truth.
The truth I shared on nairaland were bible truth. the scriptures are there for you to verify. If you dont understand still, it is not a problem ,but entering the error using abusive words is uncalled for. If you dont agree with it ,study more and review your theology or just leave the matter. Christ is not the second name for Jesus, It means the anointed one.
If anyone is trying to be false here , sorry to say , you are. How can you say matt 24 is about the church ,when Jesus clearly said he was talking about tribulation erra. You even deny the bible. We should learn to take scriptures fo what it says. I never cease to back up my sayings with the relevant scriptures , Paul himself called the Christian "Christ" . Jesus has given us his glory, We are not trying to claim what is not ours. He never taught anywhere that there will be false Christ in the church or to the church , The false christs were for israel as a nation during tribulation of israel. In the Church ,there could only be false apostle, teachers and false brethren .
Thanks

Pastor AIO:
I like potic.

I talk am

Nimshi:
Pastor Christ?

Has Chris upgraded his name?
.

@ moderator please kindly edith the title of the thread .I am certain it was a mistake.

Dolemite:
Lol, buuuuuuuuuuuuullshit!! I've heard this crap once too many. . .look, give a man the most awesome prophetic 'autterancy-full' name for success, if he doesn't work he would not be successful. . .

I agree with you , every man must work ,the bible never condone laziness but your faith is not in the work but the blessing of God upon it. several things work together for a man to be successful, The fact still remains that your name has significance. read the bible exept you dont believe the bible. if you change your name for a better you will see a difference thats if you are a christian ofcourse.