₦airaland Forum

It is so amazing, the kind of bad belle people have for Churches. How many cathedras and churches have been bought over in the Uk.Nobody protested, some churches have been converted to nightcubs , mosques and other faiths. But a church buys a property becomes an indictement against the pastor. The gospel must move forward . We will give. Churches will continually have enough money to purchase properties for worship. If people like let them call it PLC.

Hab 2:14
For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

inedi:
All this unbelieving believers when it comes to miracles they don't want to know they in lie of the devil,am sure that of a juju man.If they can't discredit the truth of the testimomy, they will try to discredit the testifier or the minister

Just like the case of Lazarus , the religious people couldn't take it that he rose, when they couldn't kill the testimony, or kill Jesus , they decided to kill Lazarus! .

Jn 12:10
But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death; Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.

The man has phone number , you could have verified the story from him.instead of pouring ignorance here . Some honest people have called him to console him for loss of the mother of his four kids.

Eccles. 9:11
    I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.


This statement is not based on truth totally . Of course God in his sovereignty distibute abilities to us, but the second part that time and chances happen to all is totally true.because  life is not a game of chance. The just shall live by faith.

Hebrews 11:6
    But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

But the second scripture is quite different. It talks about a man that loves God, God will cause all things to work for him. That means ,he will be independent of circumstance
Romans 8:28
    And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

@ all

Nobody is forced into any giving in Gods house, People that gives are the one benefiting.

Acts 20:35
It is more blessed to give than to receive.

It is not the place of any person to judge the policy of any Churc, If you dont like it, ask for clarity based on the bible, if you are not satisfied, GET OUT! OF THAT PLACE BEFORE YOU DESTROY YOUSELF. Stop the ridicle of men of God , It does not edify anybody. You should make contributios that edify the church. Even if you feel the overseer is wrong, it is between him and God.

Romans 14:4
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

You should not discourage the commitments of people to God just because you dont like the way of the leader. This is based on lack of understanding of scriptures. Jesus had Issues with jewish leaders but yet he encouraged people to listen to what they teach only that they should become like them.Never put yourself in pathway of judgement like some ignorant people.

Matthew 23:2-3
Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: [3] All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

The forum that should have been instrumental for soulwinning is now being used to attack the body of Chris. while the devil is laughing his way out.

@ Jagunlabi , Rossike

ROSSIKE:
jagunlabi said:

You got that exactly right.

Anyone who thinks you need to ''accept Jesus'' to transit to the next world needs to have their head examined.

These christians really portray God as stu-pid and thoughtless.

What exactly is supposed to happen to the 2 billion Chinese and I billion Indians who have been born into entirely different religious traditions?

That is why the gospel is being preached ,to save sinners and also to serve as a witness to some , lets they say "I was not told"

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

John 4:22
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Its because Israel was the chosen nation for the revelation of Gods glory.
If you study Daniel 9 prophecy, you'll realise that there was a calendar for restoration of glory to israel, Which gave detail account of the rebuilding of the temple, they day messiah will be born, when messiah would die, the rise of the antichrist .etc.

Daniel 9[b]:24-27 [/b]
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuar[/b]y; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [27] [b]And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

In the Daniel 70 weeek ,each week stands for 7 years. In this prophecy, there was no metion of the gentiles. but the jews ,as regard salvation. When jesus came , he came to fulfil that, "the restoration of israel" first before consideration of the gentiles.
He forbade his disciples from preaching salvation to others,

Matthew 10:5-6
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: [6] But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

That was why Jesus didnt respond to the greekk woman.

Mark 7:26-27
The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter. [27] But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

But Israel lost out of their own lot by rejecting the very messiah that they have been waiting for.

John 1:11-12
He came unto his own, and his own received him not. [12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

InesQor:
^^^ Oga sir, we have been over this, and you are still yet to show us how Jesus collected money to run his own ministry.

The verse I quoted is self explanatory.

Luk 8:3 (GWT)
Joanna, whose husband Chusa was Herod's administrator; Susanna; and many other women. They provided financial support for Jesus and his disciples.

@ Gunnaz007

Gunnaz007:
Go and establish a church then discourage offerings and '5-star' treatment from your members ahn! Dont stay here flaunting your myopic credentials of spiritual truths.

And please tell us how we are going to save others without spending money for the gospel; i think this is selfishness gone on rampage.
Your point about spending flamboyantly for the gospel is illogical because without spending for the gospel people aint gonna be saved. The ancient missionaries travelled far and wide to preach the gospel; were they transported by the Holy Ghost or the brethren pulled resources together to enable these missionaries embark on their journeys

Giving and spending for the Gospel is one of the ways you demonstrate your love for GOD/CHRIST as a Christian, but not ALL of the way; And one is not under any obligation to give. You reap what you sow brother. So glue you money in your pocket but never discourage others from giving for the Gospel because that giving might just be the openning someone. SHALOM!!!!!

I wonder what ganja smokers like this would have said about Jesus collecting money to run his own ministry.

Luk 8:3
Joanna, whose husband Chusa was Herod's administrator; Susanna; and many other women. They provided financial support for Jesus and his disciples.

Ganjaseed:
All you guys coursing, are you born again? you are easily provoked by saying those words. Am only enlightening you to beware of the corning wolfs, Look people don't be deceived these guys are the devourers believe me, right there in the so called churches, know the word of God and not the word of the pastor. The apostles where sincere enough to state from time to time that " this I say not by the spirit of God" you see, that is sincerity, not imposing your words nurtured with their corrupt mind and cajoling people to believe it and live by it meanwhile the word of God is thereby corrupted, I WILL NOT BE SILENT ON MATTERS LIKE THIS. Anybody ready to fight be my guest!!!!

How much did you give to God, if you didn't give, shut your trap! The givers didn't. Complain.

OLAADEGBU:
You have spoken well.

What would you say if you bump into your pastor's house and to your surprise you see him alone with a lady who is not his wife combing his hair, would you still say that the pastor is a superman that cannot be burnt and would he still be holy?

He is still holy . But the isssue of being burnt is a different thing. Sin of a Christian does not reduce his righteousness or holiness. The issue of sin is not with God, but between the Christian , his conscience, and the devil. There are repercussions of sin but it is not with God. But if you want us to talk abouit sin , We should open a new thread.

petres_007:
Thanx for your response. The sad thing is that there's no way to prove these your claims of miracles and the likes here on NL. But at least you've proved one thing - that you believe you did these things because you're superhuman. And with this I'm satisfied.

I won't attempt to discuss or debate this issue further with you. You've shown unbelievable skill in doing what a friend of mine refers to as a "despoil of scriptures". Just continue in your delusion.

Why don't you explain your " delusion"

@ babaearlly

babaearly:
@Joagbaje

Not that i'm judging you but can you be frank with me and tell me your Supernatural experiences?

I will tell you mine very soon and how it happened.

This is not about me or my experience, Its letting the Christian man know what he has. It is not about joagbaje , it is about the life of Christ in a Christian.

@ Petres

petres_007:
@JoAgbaje,

There really is no big deal about the superhuman thingy jor! Don't mind me
Just tell us one or two things you've done, as a superhuman. Walking on water (which @MyJoe has rightly pointed out is not challenging enough) will do just fine.
Thank you!

I only shared some neglected truth in the bible for those who care to know truth . It is not about me being different from others.

2 Cor. 10:12     For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

But if you want to know the result of the word in my life; I cast out devils regularly,  I have seen at least 2 blind people have their sight restored when I laid hands on them. fibroid,cancer etc, all manner of miracles. What nore could i say? But the greatest of all miracles is to see men give their hearts to Christ , when I share Gods preciuos word. And seeing thesame result in the lives of others who have believe this truth is so fantastic.

Mark 16:17-18
   And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

But you should know , some deep personal experiences cannot be shared here.

babaearly:
@Joagbaje

you watch too much of HEROES. Guess season 5 is out shey!

No rather i have fed so much on the word of God.

@OLAADEGBU

I believe you meant Philip and not Stephen. I heard that our forefathers used what was called "Ka-na-ko" to shorten the distance of their journeys in those days. For Christians to do what Philip or Jesus did and even more

Yes thank you I meant Philip.

but we have to rely on the Holy Spirits' initiatives and leadings, it is only then will we be great and do exploits for God. The moment we start commanding it at will then we fall into the trap of demons who will want to make us believe that we have the power to do these things and many great men of God have swallowed this bait hook, line and sinker.

We rely on the holyspirit but  we also must understand  that the holyspirit works with our faith and knowledge of truth. We must know that We have the power to do these things and more, according to the words of Jesus. We dont necessary comand such unecesararily  but when situation demands. I ill still use the door to enter the house. Instead of walking through walls!. Jesus didnt walk on the water every day either until he got stranded on the shore.

ow11:
A Christian is a super human YET is subject to all the laws of nature that affects mere mortals. How do you explain that? When Christians begin to appear behind locked doors or float in the sky like Jesus instead of aboard Gulfstream jets, then this your revelation would begin to make sense in the way you put it.

Thats exactly what we are talking about. A religious man cant comprehend such things. If Jesus walked on the water. A new creation should do more.

John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do


Didint you read aobout how Stephen disappeared?

Acts 8:39
And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. But Philip was found at Azotus:

Christianity is not a religion ,but a participation in the life of God. A born again person is called into a life higher than the ordinary natural human man's life. When you were born by your parents, you got the natural human life, but whrn you are born of God , you recieve a life that transcends the natural man's life. You are born to be a superman.
You are Born of God The natural human life is suspended .

John 1:13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
You are no longer the ordinary man you used to be. A new life now flows in your veins. The old life is gone!

2 Cor. 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This new life is thesame life God has, That means if you are born again , you have the "FULNESS OF GOD"
The father can manifest himself through you, the power of God can flow through you.

Mark 16:17-18
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

This is God's dream! to bring you into the place of union and oneness with himself. You carry the fulness of God in you. Dont plan to live an ordinary human life. You have God's divinity at work in you. This is why Jesus came, if you dont know who you are , the enemy will cheat you of your benefits in Christ. You have authority in Christ, Satan and demons are subject to your authority.

[color=#990000 ] Luke 10:19
Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. [/color]

As you daily fellowship with God through his word, The life in you become more and more manifest. you begin to see the supernatural arround you as you grow by feeding on the word. The word of God renews your mind ,and you begin to see from heavenly perspective.

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

That is the problem with many people today, If you dont dwell in the word of God, you will live in the ordinary human life. even though you are called to be a super human. Paul once rebuked the Corinrhians for be having like humans.
1 Cor. 3:3
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk[b] as men?[/b]

The word for "men" here : anthropos ; means "human being" A Christian is more than a human being.

TO BE A SUPER HUMAN IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT

adconline:
Excellent!!! This is a display of Christian maturity Blind Naija Christianity. Go and read the bible (Acts 5: 35-40), and see how Gamaliel speech before the Sanhedrin helped the cause of Christianity. Paul had to argue his case before this Sanhedrin Council in order to win his release. Had these men not spoken about their conviction, there might not been Christianity today, but what we have today from Naija followers is any attempt to question some rites, practices, rituals of some churches is an affront to God,

You are wrong on this because this Ganja seed guy didnt ask any questions in the church. But rather running spy agency. If he was seeking truth, he should have asked questions.but rather boasting "there is more, yet to come"
If theres is anything you observe in achurch that seem contrary to your convictions, you should ask for clarisfication based on the word of God. If you dont want to do that , just move on to another church , that agrees with your convictions. But when a guy goes and hide in a church and is busy criticising the church, He is a false brethren .

2[b] Cor. 11:26[/b]
In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among[b] false brethren; [/b]

False brethren dont go away, they stay ,they are not part of you but they keep coming. They attack the church from the inside.

Galatians 2:4
And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus,:

Nobody force anybody to give in Gods house, It is voluntary giving. Even if the pastor recommmend any amount for everybody, it is still voluntary. You give according to your covictions. And when you give, you are the one benefitting, and not the pastor.

2 Cor. 9:7-8
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. [8] And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

Gunnaz007:
I blame his ignorance! And let's notice that the said poster dropped the bombshell then left the thread.

CHRISTIANS, BEWARE OF DOGS!! They are more dangerous than the passers-by because they are inside!!!

You are right . satan's style has not changed

Mark 14:27
   And Jesus saith unto them, for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.

@InesQor

InesQor:
You are yet to show us how that word means monetary substance rather than material value. Maybe the word "financial" is to be blamed, but I hope you know financial is not necessary monetary? So, asking which money Jesus spent is a moot question.

I strongly believe that Jesus never had to use money to get value because goods and services were directly rendered to him by those who received him as Lord. When he needed a colt, he sent a message that THE LORD needs the young animal.

He ate free lunch with the publicans who had money to throw around.

Jesus was not poor but he wasnt a MONEYBAG either, he wore rich clothes (that the soldiers gambled for at Calvary) but he probably didnt buy it, the same women who bought perfumes and ointments would sensibly get clothes first.

The money with Judas was chicken change, small sums of money to be given to the poor. If it was so much money, Judas would rather flee with it than sell his conscience for the high priest's peanuts when he betrayed Jesus.

Jesus was not poor, but they didnt have cash lying around either, neither did they have gold or silver to sell for cash, otherwise Jesus would not ask Peter to fish for a coin, as Tudor reminded us, when they were compelled to pay tax. Unlike today when ministries rake in cash and they pay no tax!

As for what I said on luxury, please read the OP again to evaluate the red carpet treatment and fairly ask yourself if that is luxury or not.

I have answered this before, Judas had the bag , the bag of money, Primarily people give money, because money is medium of exchange. those who dont have money may give other things such as gold silver and jewelries.
Jesus spent money.

John 4:8
   (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)  

Jesus gives  to the poor
John 13:29
   For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor.

and ofcourse you will agree with me that the primary thing to give the poor is money.

John 12:5
   Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?

It was a custom those days to convert things to money to give. That was why judas would recommend that. becsause Jesus spend money , Money is a universal medium of exchange.

Matthew 19:21
   Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

So people give money primarily, I cant deny the fact that so petty handy things may be given to Jesus, but people give money as offering primarily. In churches today people give cash and kind. people drop wrist watches, car etc. so all these our beating arround ARE unnesesary, my major point of emphasis is that you run the ministry by what we give. Dont criticise a church because people give there. Jesus recieved offerings too. why didnt he reject them. He even comended a widow that gave her last.
When people give in church , they give for their own benefit, they dont lose by giving, thats the only reason Jesus would commend the widdow.

Mark 12:41-44
   And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. [42] And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. [43] And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: [44] For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

InesQor:
@Joagbaje: Hi. I apologize on viaro's behalf, but he really has valid points!

I am not offended, I just dont spend time with the kind of people the bible says I shouldnt. Viaro behaves like them, Ignorant and proud, If you prove what I believe wrong by scriptures, i learn from it. Viaro is unteachable, I wonder if he or she is born again, Because the prove of your knowing Christ is walking in love. If its hate you exhibits, it just shows what spirit is onthe inside. Do you score any point by insult? Someone that cant define faith, does not understand , divinity, does not even know the difference between  revelations of Paul and james, yet be spewing abuses in the name of Jesus? writing like a female.

viaro:
And what about the same verses from the Amplified??

Luke 8:2-3, Amplified:
²And also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had been expelled; ³And Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Herod's household manager; and Susanna; and many others, who ministered to and provided for Him and them out of their property and personal belongings.

So, why is it that you're more inclined to paraphrased versions that seem to support your lust for money?

(1) In the first place, anyone who's seeking the gold, necklace and precious belongings of other people in order to do the work of the ministry is a thief. See 3 John 1:7 - is that example of Christian ministers what you read about taking people's gold, necklace and precious things? Paul could say, "I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel" (Acts 20:33) - and does your recommendation sound similar, huh?

(2) How many places in the New Testament did you read that the Greek word 'huparchonta' (̔πάρχοντα) was "primarily financial"?!? I have tried to check, and I'm checking again - it refers to "possession" (the goods and property that people possess), and not money. If you find one single verse that indicates it is "primarily financial", please post it. I can guarantee you that the paraphrased version (God's Word translation) is misleading - and that prolly explains why you were happy to quote it.

Sorry, sir - it was not Peter that asked for the perfume to be sold; rather, it was your predecessor JUDAS the thief who piped up about such merchandising in John 12:3-6 ~~

[list][/list]

Are you following in the steps of your predecessor, Judas? I guess that if there ever was any WOF expounder, it was Judas. Well done, Joagbaje.

with your insults and abuses,You are are as childish as ever, I wont borther to respond to you again .
Advise to you , let InesQo teach you how to discuss in a forum , I have great respect for his mature discussion yesterday.

Tudór:
I once watched a video where Pastor Chris said he once misplaced his pen on his desk and needed it urgently to write. Since he could not find it he then laid hands on his paper and 'decreed' a pen to appear and one came out of nowhere!

Let someone say I'm lying then I'll know you CEC lot are a bunch of liars. . . . I'll try and remember the title of that video.

There was a message like that , Im trying to remember the title ,

but this knife cutting is pure lie

babaearly:
@JOAGBAJE the OP said P.Chris said he cut himself.so how does that verse defend your pastor?

The point is that pastor Chris never cut himself, I will pay 100,000 , if he can prove it that pastor Chris taught so.
Because the op is not consistent with what Pastor Chris teaches and not consistent with the word , Pastor Chris will tell you that such action is tempting God. You dont go and jump off a roof without a cause.

Matthew 4:6-7
And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. [7] Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

This is the truth pastor Chris teaches. That message by the OP never existed.

One of the victims of the Jos crisis Evangelist Mohamed Aliu a popular muslim leader now a Minister but not in CEC came to us for assistance, His wife was just killed in whatever market in Jos leaving him with 4 children. His car was burnt and his property. His children would have been killed had they not been in school near the Army Barracks. He was captured, dragged out of his car and they gave him 2 options of death they put arrow on his head and a mixture of cement.with a liquid substance. He chose cement drink. in his own words . As he drank it he said he remembered te tapes of pastor Chris, based on mark 16 . He began to mutter under his breath "If i drink any deadly thing , it shall not hurt me." He said he passed out.
( I felt he died) 9:am he came to himself arround 6 or 7 pm. woke up or rose up. He saw dead people all over, and bow and arrow scattered he picked bow and arrow to join the killers in disguise just to make his way to the baracks to get his kids, To cut the story short , we gave him over a 100,000 bla bla . But the point is the message worked for him . I dont know the medical details. the only thing was he had a swollen scrotum! The message he beleived worked.
Others have died of thesame thing allover. But that doesnt mean a man should go and be drinking poison. When situation like this comes , the truth you beleive will work for you. Pastor Chris will not tell people to be tempting God.

You can verify from him yoursel Evang Mohamed Aliu. his new no. 08027943710 You can still send relief to him also.

petres_007:
Na wah o!

@Mabell and @Joagbaje,
We're obviously talking about separate accounts here. In the video I saw, he said nothing about a growth.

Many thanks to @Utkomi who presented his objection to my post maturely and well enough.
But I maintain, I know what I heard and would like to leave it at that.

I really wish I could go back in time and somehow capture that video and post it here so we can get past that and discuss the real issue for which I started this thread - that the bible does not teach that believers are superhuman in anyway. That the scriptures used to teach this crap have been twisted, lifted out of their original context or simply misread. I couldn't care less if anyone (including Pastor Chris) believes he can cut his flesh out and put it back, or heal himself miraculously if he sustains an injury - but when such an individual twists the bible to preach that as Gospel truth, I have a problem with that.

People take the words of men like Mr. Oyaks as though they were God's very words - without questioning it at all. Forgetting all the biblical instructions in the scriptures to always exercise discernment. Sometimes I wonder where their allegiance lies. With God and his Christ, or with these false ministers who wrongly divide the word of truth and feed them all the fairy tales their itching ears want to hear.

You are lying in your teeth, Pastor Chris has never taught such things, about cutting himself. That would be tempting God. That is what pastor Chris would tell you. Just drop this matter, ok. It is your exeggeration. But if you beleive a message as such exists , just go to the church and ask for the tape where pastor Christ said he cut himself with knife, They will get it for you. I can bet you.It never existed. its either you didnt get him right or you created your on story. Such teaching is not consistent with truth.

Mark 16:18
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

You know what pastor Chris said here? He said that doesnt mean you should go and drink poison , but if for any reason you accidentaly drink one or you were forced into drinking it, you can activate the power of that scripture.

@ OnesQo

Simple question for you. Where did Jesus get the money he was spending?

InesQor:
A little honesty, you said?  

Can you show us where Jesus ever asked for donations or contributions to be made? Is it not true that if I'm in a CEC service and I don't give voluntarily so-to-speak, then I have shown some disloyalty? We all know how these things work! We can't say that a pastor (if I respect him) says I should make a contribution and I won't!!! So how can you say I'm not being forced? If the pastor asks for the contribution every now and then, hasn't that become something else?

Or can you not see that this "giving" that the OP mentioned is rather trivial? Did Jesus live in luxury at the expense of his followers? Isn't it true that he was so much at par with them in living conditions that Judas had to single him out with a kiss, he was not distinguished in extravagant dressing or opulent expression?

Please stop for a second and think about all I said above before you hit the REPLY button.

You are bringing something else into the matter, the Op didnt talk about the pastor living in luxury at the expense of members, We shouldnt go to extremes. The pastor of that church has a professional job, He is not a full time pastor, he makes his own money and he is a giver. If you want to go  into the direction you are pressing here , you should open a new thread on it. ( pastoral luxury)

InesQor:
Please can you NOT show us translations, because anybody can make a transcription of the Bible and pass it off as a translation? Rather, PLEASE show us where you got your definition for huparchonta because mine is from Strong's concordance.
I assume you mean Judas?  (John 12:4-5)

It is a general word for giving of handy portable things , such as money, jeweries etc.  but not large things and not perishable things as food.

huparchonta,  hoop-ar'-khon-tah; neuter plural of presumed participle active of Greek 5225 (huparcho) as noun; things extant or in hand, i.e. property or possessions :- goods, that which one has, things which (one) possesseth, substance, that hast.

extant  means non perishable.

The bible says Judas (not peter, thanks for correction) had the  bag ; Bag of money , simply put. He helped himself out of it, and Jesus sends him to take money from it to buy things

John 13:29
   For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor.

John 13:29   (Amplified)
Some thought that, since Judas had the money box, (the purse),

Some  translations says , he had the Money bag. Other says he was the treasurer.

John 4:8
   For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.

InesQor:
Is it not clear here Jesus was warning the first guy that if he follows WHEREVER THOU GOEST as he wanted to, then he would prepare to be a vagrant, a a wanderer like Jesus and the rest of the disciples? Jesus was giving a Caveat Emptor. . . a buyer beware, a warranty notice of going everywhere with him. He DID NOT SAY NO.

The next verse has Jesus asking another to follow him. If your statement that he was concerned about lodging, is true, then why should Jesus ask another to follow him? and when another offered to follow him and wanted to go and say goodbye at home, why didn't Jesus say "Go ahead. In fact, there's no space?" rather, Jesus said if he turned back and did not make a decision at the second, he wasn't fit for the kingdom! i.e. if he goes home to say Goodbye he may be convinced to stay back and not follow Christ again!

You made a good point here, I will still re check it, but we have a common ground that Jesus was not a Hobo.

InesQor:
Luk 8:3 And Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Herod's household manager; and Susanna; and many others, who ministered to and provided for Him and them out of their property and personal belongings. (AMP)

Luk 8:3 And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance. (KJV)

The word translated substance is huparchonta

They ministered in KIND. They used their possessions to help the ministry.

Luke 8:2 (God's Word Translation)
Also,some women were with him. They had been cured from evil spirits and various illnesses. These women were Mary, also called Madgalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, (3) Joanna, whose husband Chuza was Herod's administrator,Susanna; and many other women. They provided financial support for Jesus and his disciples.


huparchonta: is used in generic terms for giving; either financial or material. This is not an issue any way. several translations gave it to either way. But primarily financial, and if materials, it should be something portable enough to take and sell in exchange for money such as gold, necklace,precious and things which was common in their days, That was why peter could ask for the woman's perfume to be sold.

@ InesQor

InesQor:
Luk 9:58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

So what?? this was only an instance, He could not be buying houses every where he was going. He was on transit he had sent people to arrange accomodation in the samaritan town but they refused him there.because they were samaritans and since he was going to Jerusalem which was a rival town to the samaritans, they were offended

Luke 9:52-55
   And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. [53] And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. [54] And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? [55] But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

He was still thinking of where to sleep when another man came to add more responsibility of staying with him, he politely refused, he had not even sort his own accomodation out yet.

Luke 9:57-58
   And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him, Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. [58] And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

That was only an instance.He had a house

John 1:37-39
   And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus. [38] Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou? [39] He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour.