₦airaland Forum

saharachic:
@ joagbaje

would you say Gen 3:19 is still a valid judgement?

Genesis 3:19
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
You should learn to make yourself clear. The verse deals with several things , so which one of them are you refering to?

But if I will give you straight answer for all. the answer is YES/NO. It is valid for the world but not for Christians

@Viaro
If you had followed my point of emphasis you would not lose me. I was answering to those whose always attack the mention of money in Gods kingdom for reasons i dont know. And i wanted to make it clear without apology that giving of money is not only part of sowing and reaping but play a very vital role. There It is easier to give material things than give money , there is a strong attachment people have to money( mammon worship) .That is why people find it hard to give. theyve not been able to conquer greed and covetousness. A man may be able to give his car,but if he should sell it and give the money, it becomes harder. Annanias and his wife gave land to God but when they sold it, covetousness did not allow them to bring the money, they even died for it. Jesus could have told the rich man to give out his property,but he told him if he wants to attain maturity(perfect) he should sell them ,convert them to money first and give out in cash.Jesus commended the widow that gave all she had.

But God wants us to conquer this inability. There are two kinds of covetousnes. Crave for things and inability to give I was not talking about the craving after things but the attachment of not letting go. especially of money which is harder to give. Didnt you see how people quickly attack giving of money in the thread. That was the point I was driving at. Im not saying "if you desire your neighbour's wife ,give money and the covetousnes will go"

She was just a vessel that God used to bring forth the messsiah, Nothing more . She didnt believe in Jesus at first but later She had to believe in Jesus Christ as her saviour and be born again like any other person or else she would have ended up in hell and lake of fire after death. But She was wise, She eventually got born again, recieved the holyghost ,she prayed in tongues.

Acts 1:13-14
And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. [14] These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

besides that nothing more. Worshiping her or praying to her is idolatory. And those who admire her sould follow her step by being born again and recieving the holyghost.

Is it Just Emmanuel Tv crew that is doing this or synagogue church? I thought the duty of Tv crew is to carry camera and wires. Can you clarify this?

@ Zikky

Zikkyy:
@Joagbaje,

i think you need a job in the bank, maybe the position of vault manager

I am richer than the banks thanks for the offer.

viaro:
@Joagbaje,

Perhaps this is the first time I would address you. I've tried to follow some of your posts to see just what you're putting forward - although I have not gone through everything to make an informed opinion, there seems to be cause for concern in your post above. Good sense in some of the things you stated, but here is the problem -

Indeed, part of the process of our growing into maturity involves denial, sacrifice - and conquering greed and covetousness. But I'm not so sure that the last two bits ('conquering greed and covetousness') are obtained through giving money. Maybe this is one reason why some have had some problems with your posts in the past? I don't know.

However, it seems to me that while we should beware of covetousness (Luke 12:15), the struggle is often depicted as a spiritual event, and the resources to overcome are also rather spiritual. I don't want to sound presumptive, but let me refer you to a few examples:

(a) Paul experienced this same struggle in Romans 7:7 - 'I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet'.

(b) He goes on to recognize the real problem in Rom. 7:14 - 'For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.'

(c) Of course, his way of overcoming this was not through giving money, but rather as expressed in Rom. 8:2 - 'For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.'

It seems that is the principle found in so many passages and follows that pattern: we overcome these issues by the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives, and not by material things - and I think that aletheia has repeatedly pointed this very thing to us.

I dont really get your point. Maybe youre missing me somewhere., You may explain yoursef better. Your response has no relevance to what I was saying. except i miss your point.

If I were you, I will pay my tithe first, and expect a bigger miracle. Patapata make part payment of my rent .

@Pastor AIO
Eccles. 10:19
, but money answereth all things.

Pastor AIO:
@Joagbaje, Do you consider this statement to be true, from your experience of life?

I quoted the scripture to buttres the fact that money is medium of exchange. If you read the write up before i quote the scripture. I didnt say money perfect people .But talking about perfection.There are two kinds of perfection. The gift by grace through christ and the second one has to do with maturity. The issue of perfection (maturity)came from Christ which has to do with a level of growth ,maturity attained by denial ,sacrifice and, conquering greed and covetousness, through giving money.

Matthew 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Marlbron:
1st Cor 15:5


5 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Can we have reasoned discussions around this verse?

Marlbron:
The spirit that formed Adam resurrected and later reincarnated as Jesus Christ. This was the same breath, the same life force. Is it any wonder that while Adam lived beyond 900+years, Jesus lived for just 33 years? Also Adam's ribs were used to create Eve, and in the reincarnation, Mary (Eve ) was used as a vessel to deliver Jesus the Christ. Don't take my word for it, just read 1 Cor 15:14

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 it is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Can we now see how the death of Adam gave rise to the birth of the quickening spirit?

Examine also christ statement

The are is nothing like reincarnation. The conclusion you came to was based on mis understanding of 1cor 15:42

1 Cor. 15:42-44
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: [43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: [44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

It is not making reference to the body of Adam beign sown to give birth to christ but rather it is talking about the body of Christ being sown to give birth to a glorified one. well im yet to read all your previous post so as to understand you better.

Another misunderstanding of yours is about christ becoming second Adam . Firstly the name" Adam " means "mankind" Species of beign or human race Second Adam means second kind of mankind.
So Jesus was called second Adam only for one reason, he represents the new race.
Which is The new creation.

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

The first Adam represents a race of people. The last mankind (Adam) represent a new race of people.

1 Cor. 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

I

saharachic:
Dont be hypocritical. we both know you dont get to the point sometimes.

Another question: Has God ever failed in any of his words through out the bible?

Im not hypocritical, I just want you to get down to the point, because i dont really understand where you are going.If i know where you are going ,i will know how to answer. But if i should assume i know what you are saying.

Has God failed in his words ? No never. But Has the word of God failed to come to pass? Yes!

deluxecad:
@Joagbaje: The last two references u made are equally controversial to me, it makes one think dat d bible is contradictory or not consistent. Could it be God that inspired all the content of d Holy writ? Could it hav been made out the way it is by human frailties?

The Bible contains the word of God, but not everything in the bible that is necesssarily the word of God. The bible contains the word of Donkey, the words of men, the words of satan, the words of demons and word of angels. What they sad and recorded were not necessarily inspired. For example ,The book of Job was inspired of God to Moses but it is not everything Job said that was consistent with truth even though he was a righteous man. So the fact that a man prophesy does not make all his prophecies 100% accurate besides the typographical errors of the bible. A prophet can make mistake based on his limited knowledge of God. So we judge prophecies by the whole body of truth.

1 Cor. 14:29
Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

1 Cor. 13:9-10
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. [10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

The

deluxecad:
The same phrase was used several times in that same chapter. What does it means when they say: "All powers belong to God?".

The spirit of God is always rstraining evil. but when a man walks in disobedience,God may not be able to restrain evil from him because the man himself has given lincense to the devil to invade his life.Most men in the old testament attribute evry event to God , both good and bad.

The fact that they were prophets does not make them 100% correct .remember ,the spirit of the prophet is subject to him. Men prophesy accordig to their revelation of God.

1 Cor. 14:32
   And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
Let me ask a question  for example ; who made David to  number israel ?

2 Samuel 24:1
   And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

compare that with another account

1 Chron. 21:1-2
   And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. [2] And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beer-sheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it.

So was is Godd that made David do it or satan? You see the two writers wrote according to the light they had.We judge scripyures according to truth

sowing and reaping is an eternal law. Jesus taught you can give your jacket, coat ,help,service .etc.but I dont know when it comes to the giving of money, some people will pick up fight or when it come to giving to God in churches. Giving of money will continually be a major part of our seed because money is medium of exchange.

Eccles. 10:19
, money answereth all things.

If there is anybody that illustrate attitude to money the most it was Jesus. why did he not tell the rich man to giv his goods out? Rather He told the rich man to sell the goods in exchange for money first. tthen give out the money. It is harder to sow cash but Jesus want us to conquer mammon. Annanias sold land but found it difficult to remmitt it. There is a perfection you attain by sowing money. So dont rule out money in the law of sowing and reaping it plays a major role.

God does not have evil spirit.The writer wrote according to his understanding. because in their day there was no revelation of demonic activities. they believe all things come from God.

saharachic:
@joagbaje

Did God tell Adam that dust he came from and to dust he will return?

Get to the point. There are two Adams . Adam the flesh and Adam the spirit. The flesh goes to dust but the spirit does not go to dust, but i dont know your point here

ogajim:
Folks who have never seen enough money are always looking to hit it big time which I thought was the thug way until I started looking closely at SOME of these pentecostal churches/preachers.

Real Christians PRAY against that extra dollar that could block their whole salvation and money hungry Christians pray for wealth/prosperity and tell you they have it figured out, na wa for waec ooo.

Last time I checked, Solomon NEVER prayed for RICHES! Correct me if I am wrong.

Dont make mistakes, a christian makes money to have more than enough to reach others.Not for te purpose of eating with golden spoon and ivory bed. A christian does not need to pray for money ,he is blessed already. all he needs do is to exercise his authority and dominion over lack.

Deut. 8:18
But thou shalt remember the Lord thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

Solomon didnt have to pray for riches ,he understood the principles of making riches. He gives to God and embrace wisdom

Proverbs 3:9-10
Honour the Lord with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: [10] So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

aletheia:
I begin to despair, but here follows a rebuttal using the scriptures as I see you are playing around with words (it is clear to me that you equate the gospel to being materially wealthy i.e having money, owo, ego, kudi).
You imply that a Christian ought never to fall ill:
1. 2 Co 12:7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.
2. Gal 4:13-14 You know it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached the gospel to you at first, and though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus.
3. 1 Tim 5:23 (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)

So by your understanding of the gospel Paul and Timothy were not really Christians since they had ailments.

So their inheritance is here on earth?

1. Mat 6:19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal,
2. Mat 6:24 "No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.
3. Heb 11:13-16 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

How about this:
The problem is that every time you see the word "rich" in the bible $$$ signs begin to flash in your mind

So the good news of Jesus of Nazareth to the poor is that they can have more money than Bill Gates? How well the bible describes these times we live in.

This is the gospel summarized:
1. Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
2. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
3. Heb 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
4. Isa 53:5-6 But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned--every one--to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
5. Rom 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

And
Here is a warning for all proponents of the "gospel of prosperity":
Is Jesus asking the Laodiceans to buy physical gold from him?

2 Cor. 12:7
    And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Paul's thorn in the flesh was not sickness oo. God would not give his Children what Christ has taken away.The word  thorn has to do with afflictions and persecutions, .It was a language they were used to.

Numbers 33:55
    But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.

Paul talks from time to time what his thorns were.His many afflictions.


2 Cor. 11:23-27
    Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. [24] Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. [25] Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; [26] In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; [27] In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and unclothedness.

If Timothy was sick. It was based on his faith. There is no automatic prosperity or automatic immunity from sickness. The jst shall live by his faith". that is why a man has to be so rich in the word of God to reign above sickness , poverty and death.You have the responsibility to resist the devil.

Ephes. 6:11
    Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

There is not supposed to be an issue for debate. We sow money we sow time, service ,smile,love, We live by our seed. But you see God is particular about our attitude to the giving of money. The God of mammon and covetousness will not allow people to give money so they fight it. It is easier to give shoe than give its money equivalent. Sowing and reaping is a law. seed time and harvest. The first thing God gives is a seed ,when we sow ,we then have harvest to live on.

Isaiah 55:10
For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

2 Cor. 9:10
Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness

Wrong tittle, Maybe you should ask , Is it proper for men to plait hair. If thats what you mean, its not a sin, but things should be done decently.

1 Cor. 14:40
Let all things be done decently and in order.

Rapture is an english word which means "caught up" or to catch up. ofcourse you wont find the word "Rapture" in kjv but the word "caught up"but the event is in several places in the bible.

1 Thes. 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be[b] caught up[/b] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Enoch was the first to be caught up or raptured.

Genesis 5:24
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
The next person was Elijah and next was Christ and now the next person is me. So you should be more concerned about the event than the grammar.

Jesus didnt take away the sabbath but rather came to fulfil it. Sabbath means rest. The primary purpose of sabbath was not worship but to rest. Jesus is lord of sabbath ( rest)

Matthew 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

When a man recieves Christ ,by faith he has entered into rest.

Hebrews 4:10
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

But as regards worship ,theres no special day any longer,of course the early church meet on sunday. Jesus didnt give any command on such. but we all generally accepted it for formalty sake and its good. but our wowrship of God is not limited to a special day.The real sabbath is life in christ. christ in you.

Col. 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

aletheia:
@OP
The prosperity of the gospel is not the materialistic false gospel that appeals so much to the masses today. Consider this verses:

Perhaps you will tell me that "blessed" implies have material possessions. What of this scriptures then?
And these:

Do you think that the gospel is a means to materialism? Do you think the reason Jesus of Nazareth died was in order for you to have a bigger bank balance or a new car? You are sadly misled and mistaken.

May the LORD grant you grace to see these things?

If it is God's will for us to be healed, then it is God's will for us to be rich.
The  first thing we should ask ourselves is ; What is the definition of the GOSPEL. The Gospel means good news.

Luke 4:18
    The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor, ,

What  was Jesus refering to here as the poor? was it spiritualy poor people or materially? The GK word ptochos; refers to paupers, beggars. He has brought a message to liberate them from poverty into wealth.
There is no middle ground. It is either you are rich or poor. The average man is still a poor man. because he cant help anyone. One of the ministry of a pastor is to perfect the saints.Paul was instructed by christ to deliver the saints into their inheritance.

Acts 26:18
    To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

2 Cor. 6:10
    As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

2 Cor. 8:9
For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

A christian does not have to labour after material things, but he need to understand his rights and priviledges in Christ.that all things belong to him

1 Cor. 3:21
Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;

The only thing God will be against is a man becoming materialistic by his inability to give out or beign lifted in pride.

1 Tim. 6:17
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

"he gives us richly all things to enjoy"

Deut. 8:18
But thou shalt remember the Lord thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

The message of average or poverty is of the devil. He didnt call us to suffer but to have dominion. If any man suffers now , he suffers due to his ignorance.

Psalm 35:27
Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the Lord be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.

chukwudi44:
Like I said before in the other thread that the gift of tongues is differant from the gift of speaking in tongues.What happened on the day of the pentecost was the gift of tongues and is quite differant from what was described in 1 cor 14.On the day fthe pentecost the apostles spoke and the peole heard the message in differant languages.for e.r Peter spoke and some igbo men present heard the mesage in igbo,while the youruba man heard the message in yoruba e.t.c This gift is very rare was only recorded in church history again in the 15th century by st Vincent ferrer.

The gift of speaking in tongues was clearly described in 1 cor 14,even then it was mainly stated that not more than three should speak in tongue and one after the other,but when there is no one to interpret they should shut up.

There is different between praying in tongues and speaking with tongues. If a man give prophecy in tongues to the people ,he should interprete.But if he prays to God alone he doesnt need interpretation.

1 Cor. 14:27-28
    If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. [28] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Every body can pray in tongues at the same time which is praying in tongue. So  if he cant interprete his message, he should keep quiet but this does stop him from speaking in tongue alone to God or to edify himself.

[28] , But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

sonya4all:
Most people read the bible as a text book which is wrong.According to the new testament,tongues amongst other gifts were given 2 the disciples for them 2 be able 2 spread the word of God.If u use a hebrew bible ull see that tongues there means a known language and not bla blas.It was given 2 the apostles whose native lang was diffrnt from that of the countries where they are sent 2 preach.Jst like maybe im igbo and can speak the language bt i want 2 go to urhobo land 2 preach when i get there my language wil change to that of the urhobos.Mind u all these were hapening when the bible was nt completd .But when the bible was completed most of those gifts stoped.The bile says.If there be tongues they shal cease,if there be prophecy they shal fail.Why because the bible is complete and theres nothing u wont find in the bible.I hope this clears the doubts.People are deceived 2day by these pentecostals because they want miracles.God help us[/color]

That only happened specifically on the day of pentecost for a purpose just because many people were there from different nations. That was diversities of tongues.
Praying in the spirit has different forms.It could be in earthly language and heavenly language.The bible talks about tongues of men and tongues of angels.

[color=#990000]1 Cor. 13:1
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Every christian ought to be able to pray in tongues. It is their heritage.

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

What Most people dont understand is the difference between;
DIVERSITIES OF TONGUES, SPEAKING WITH TONGUES, PRAYING IN TONGUES, GROANINING IN SPIRIT.
Some has to do with speaking to yourself in tongues, Seaking to God in tongues, Speaking to the church in tongues.
DIVERSITIES OF TONGUES,
1 Cor. 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

This is ability to talk in other known language that has not been previously learnt. E.g an ibo man speaking french language supernaturaly without any previous knowledge of French.He does not need to interprete it because ,the recipent will understand since he spoke in the native laguage

SPEAKING WITH TONGUES,
1 Cor. 12:30
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
This is talking to people e.g preaching or giving prophecy in an unknown tongue. He needs to interpret or keep quiet.

1 Cor. 14:23
If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?


PRAYING IN TONGUES,
1 Cor. 14:4
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

1 Cor. 14:39
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

GROANINING IN SPIRIT

Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

We can classify the Balabala Bolobolo Brekekemaya sontaraba rirba, under this. The issue is not how it sounds but that the tterance came from the spirit. Imagine what language is a groan? Yet in that groan the holyghost has prayed through us . Jesus groaned to raise lazarus up

John 11:33
When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,

I will like to post a new thread to explain myself better on this.

mazaje:
In the Christian creation myth, Adam & Eve were placed into the garden of Eden next to an extremely tempting fruit and they Eve was later decieved by some serpent to eat from the tree even though she did not even know the weight of her actions because she did not have the knowledge of right and wrong. The important part of the story here is that according to the Christian hypothesis literally billions of people would come to suffer afterwards due to the actions of one person that was decieved by some serpent.

That being the case, is it really so surprising that the same God would punish modern day Haitians due to the actions of their forefathers many generations ago?

1. Creation is not a myth.

2. God didnt put the fruit in the garden to tempt Adam and Eve. The fruit was actualy meant for them but they eat
it prematurely

3.God is a good God and he was not behind the earth quake. Such disasters are caused by the devil.Jesus had warned that there would be such in this last days.

Rev. 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


Matthew 24:7
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Pastor AIO:
The Gospel message: Is it For or Against the polishing of Shoes?

In case you don't understand the sarcasm what I meant to say is that as the polishing of shoes is irrelevant to the core message of the Gospel so is the having of material prosperity. .[/b]

The point here is, There is an idea that the message of prosperity is ungodly or worldly, So let us look at it . There is no middle line , Is the gospel of christ for or against the idea of prosperity. Is there provision for the church ,the hope of prosperity or we just live our lives by whatever we see. or luck?

KunleOshob:
Mr Agbaje, we have consistently taught you on this forum that the gospel of christ has absolutely nothing to do with material prosperity here on earth, the gopsel is the gospel of the kingdom of God were Jesus promised to prepare mansions [wealth/prosperity] for those who beleive and do his will in the after life. It is NOT about prosperity in this life. The verse you quoted to support material prosperity do not support it rather they are talking about spiritual prosperity [soul prospering] and good health. Besides the 3 john 1:2 scripture you quoted is not a promise from God but rather a prayer by John for believers and he was not even praying for material prosperity. If you are in doubt check that passage from other versions of he bible or get a good concordance to get the proper interpretation of that verse.

Please note that i have not said that there is anything wrong with material prosperity which most of us desire but the gospel of christ should not be twisted to say what it is not saying as you could be in danger of leading believers away from the path of salvation [narrow road] to the path of destruction [broad road] which every body would like to take. It is good for peple to prosper materially but they must also use their material possesions to bless others as God directed also the glorious gospel of the our lord Jesus christ should not be polluted with our lust/ greed of worldly material riches which was of little consequence to our redeemer.

I have taught You also consitently that there are no richies in heaven in the after life. we only spend 7 years in heaven!

John 10:10
   The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Eternal life is not in living for ever but a quality of life  It is here now .A life above sickness, poverty,failure and death
Fella said suffer ,suffer for world ,enjoy for heaven. The Lazarus kind of life is not what christ came to die for.

KunleOshob:
Mr Agbaje, we have consistently taught you on this forum that ,

I wonder who the "WE" are.

Well you are right on one thing ,that 3john 1:2 was  not a promise but  a prayer but you were wrong to say he wasnt talking abot material prosperity but that its  spiritual prosperity. The Gk word  euodoo means to have succes as in business

Prosperity is an all round thing: health wise, financial,material,intelect,marital and so on. We can not cut the finacial part of it off it.
Jesus was made poor for us to be rich.The Greek word there: Plouteo means wealth and increase in goods

Kuns:
Receiving The Holy Ghost

Pentecostalists claim that when the Holy Spirit comes to you, you speaking in tongues, or Glossolalia. Glossolalia comes from the Greek word Glossa and it literally means, "tongue."

They claim the "lord" is passing a message through them. I have no qualms with this, if the Holy Spirit is truly bestowed upon them. One may be blessed with the divine gift of speaking in tongues (languages).

Yet, Pentecostalists don't speak in other tongues. Instead, they fall out on the floor and start babbling and muttering, while moaning and talking undecipherable mumbo-jumbo.

Acts 2:4 [b][/b]
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

There is a difference between speaking in tongues ,Gift of tongue,Praying in tongues, talking in tongues and speaking with tongues.
Any christian that has not yet experienced this is missing a lot. The issue about speaking in tongues is not in the words being spoken either it is kororboro or lelekuku. It is based on the source from the innermost being that counts.
Jesus was the first to speak in tongues!

You have said it all .The bible is self explanatory, The kingdom of God runs on the principle of giving and recieving. Most people desire to have but dont give, Every body should be focus on the giving part, the result of receiving will be natural effect. Our partaking in all the blessings of God is determined by some deeds of faith. For example ,you dont need to pray for long life if you want to live long.There are deeds of faith that are required for long life. One of such is to take care of your parents.

Exodus 20:12
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

Even though we are no longer under the law ,some instructions given under the law are still valid because they are revelations of God's principles.

I have heard people give impression as though prosperity is wrong based on certain scriptures like

Matthew 19:24
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Is God against prosperity? what of other scriptures that sounds otherwise.

3 John 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

2 Cor. 8:9
For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that[b] ye through his poverty might be rich[/b].

Which side is God ? For Against or in between.

I WILL APPRECIATE POINTS BACKED UP WITH BIBLICAL VERSES

ttalks:
Mr. Agbaje, u are so much of a disappointment. Paul's referencing of the old testament does not imply the same practice in the new. The old period required tithes and offerings and priests got what they could out of that for consumption with the providers. It was now a tenth of the tithes which they gave to God; which means 1 percent, not the deceptive ten percent u collect from your sheeple. The gospel requires that we give offerings as we can to meet needs;not tithes. It is from this 'what we can and want to give' offerings that pastors who do not want to work on the side are to live on. If it meets their needs totally,good. If it comes short, they should remember Paul's talk on contentment in Philipians 4. There is no tithing as a rule in the new covenant.

Why are you reading your own meaning to scriptures. Maybe you should explain what 1 cor 9 meant.
besides I never at any time say the whole ten percent belong to the priests. They use some of these offerings and tihes for sacrifices besides, How many lamb will the priest eat!? . They use the as needs arise,for morning and evening oblation and other rituals.and for the upkeep of the priest. And for your information ,I work , i make money and I give.

The priests were people into full time ministry because they were not allowed to work, and are primarily suppoerted by tithes and offerings that people give to God.

Numbers 18:26
    Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the Lord, even a tenth part of the tithe.
Tithes belongs to God and the priest recieved it on his behalf, When israel slacked in their givings God called it

Malachi 3:8-11
    Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. [9] Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. [10] Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Now in the church ,the ministers and pastors are also supported in their welfare through tithes and offerings. which was already a known matter in their day.and Paul also made a reference to it.

1 Cor. 9:13-15
    Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? [14] Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.