₦airaland Forum

All you guys need is to get born again first. It will end your Judas kind od anger against giving to God. No explaination can suffice. until you become a new creature ,understainding will come to your hearts.

1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The law has been abolished and dissanulled. But titheing and offering did not originate under the law. Take is as though the law never came. we tithe as seed of Abraham. if tithing is abolished then we will be wrong to give offerings through men of God too.
Paul refered to what they gave him as a kind of burnt offering.
Philip. 4:18
, "But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God,

Hebrews 7:8
[And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them

[/quote]

chukwudi44:
ol boy your ignorance of the scripture is pathetic,that verse was talking about jewish high priests receiving tithes on earth.It actually indicates that Jesus receives his in heaven .THis means that the tithe has already being paid for us ,we are free men ,no longer any law

I wont deny the fact that there are 2 schools of thought over this scripture.  Dakes bible has this comment on it.
[i]If men that die receive tithes, how much more should they who live receive them?  That is, if temporary priests have received them, how much more should the eternal priests receive them?[/i]

what ever opinion you chose is not issue with me. but the fact remains that tithing has not been abolished. there is no single reference in the bible to that effect. As  long as theres a highpriest we must give our tithe. The Aaronic order was strictly for the jews, but the order is changed now . He abolished Aaronic or Levitical priesthood but he did not abolish  "priesthood" itself , he only changed the order of the priesthood .Jesus is our highpriest in the order of Melchizedek whose order is characterised by the tithing institution. If theres any emphasis about him it was the tithe.
The levitical priesthood was not perfect. it only pave way for the jews . but the order of Melchizedek was not for Jews. in christ theres no jew or gentile.

Hebrews 7:11-12
    If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? [12] For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Hebrews 7:15-17
    And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, [16] Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. [17] For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hebrews 7:22-24
    By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. [23] And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: [24] But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

[quote author=chukwudi44 link=topic=307798.msg5188143#msg5188143 date=1261828186]please show me where the in the bible the high priest delegated this function to amy pastor?

The bible never said that the highpriest must collect the tithes directly but he had the temple official the levites to recieve them direclty. and bring them into the store house.
[i]Neh. 10:38
    And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house. [/i]

Tithing was not meant for the poor. but for the store house. the tithing for the poor was a special one every three years.

So to answer you question the Pastors  are the ones that presides over the tithes in church . The reason is because of the anointing on them to confer blessing.
Numbers 18:8
[i] And the Lord spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever

Thesame way men gave offerings through the priests but now the pastor functions as the priest over our givings.
The  gifts and monies that were sentto Paul were recieved by him  as burnt offerings because the pastor is the highpriest deputy or representative on the earth.

nuella2:
, " I see u talk so much about the poor like the Jehovah witness but we still have so many poor pple around, u even sell watchtower to same poor pple u so talk about",

No wonder, Now i understand!!. I had said before that any man that excesively campaign for  the poor like this must be up to something.
John 12:3-8
    Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment. [4] Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him, [5] Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? [6] This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein. [7] Then said Jesus, Let her alone",

we give to our pastors not because they lack but for our prosperity because of the anointing on them.

Numbers 18:8
    And the Lord spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever.

Thesame things applies to apostle Paul.
Philip. 4:16-19
    For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity. [17] Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account. [18] But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God. [19] But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

Isaac told Esau he wanted to bless him but Esau should prepare him food before he could bless him why?
BECAUSE OF THE ANOINTING
Genesis 27:4
[i] And make me savoury meat, such as I love, and bring it to me, that I may eat; that my soul may bless thee before I die. [/i]

Elijah told the  poor widow to give him food first  even her last meal so that she can prosper, why?
BECAUSE OF THE ANOINTING

1 Kings 17:13-14
And Elijah said unto her, Fear not; go and do as thou hast said: but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring it unto me, and after make for thee and for thy son. [14] For thus saith the Lord God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the Lord sendeth rain upon the earth.

We give to God ,
we give to the poor
we give for Church project
we must continually give to men of God , so that the anointing upon them bless us more.

My conclusion on the matter is in what Paul said.
1 Cor. 2:14
    But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

@sir john
The bible was clear in mark that Jesus couldnt heal some cases
Mark 6:5
And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
It didnt say "JESUS DIDNT DO MIGHTY WORKS THERE" but rather "COULDNT DO" that could have only been that he tried . Its like telling a cripple to walk and he didnt walk. but he told headache to go and it left.

why did lazarus die after jesus had pronounced that he wont die.
John 11:3-4
Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick. [4] When Jesus heard that, he said, "This sickness is not unto death, " He had made other pronouncements before and it worked.
John 4:50-51
Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way. [51] And as he was now going down, his servants met him, and told him, saying, Thy son liveth.

but why did lazarus own fail.?

Jesus was human and divine and his didvinity didnt take away his humanity. As God he knows all things, but as man he didnt know all things. so if you see any imperfection in a minister dont be quick to judge or condemn ,they are doing the best they can. rather support them in prayer. Paul say "pray for him
Ephes. 6:19
, pray for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

He had some troubles with the blind man too. after jesus prayed , the man only had partial improvement but he Got jesus attention to it. and Jesus had to pray for him all over again. So what you needed was to attend the healing school all over again .
Mark 8:23-25
And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. [24] And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. [25] After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

I agree some people need deliverance on this forum especially some of the spiritual vagabonds that dont have a pastor and father over them and can have audacity to insult anointed men of God that God is using to bless this generation.

All these irrelivant writings and post. Is it anybodys business. different churches have their administrative structures for different reason. if youre asked to fill form why not ask them the reason. why bring it here?.

I dont buy this form idea either but it non of my bussiness, the man is the one that knows his assignment.  but by common sense we should know that things are different now compare to the time of jesus. a pastor may ask them to do that for the people convineience so that he could know which matter is more urgent and to be abe to schedule proper time for their matters. he must not attend to everybody. imagine a pastor line up 500 people per day , when will he pray or study.
Acts 6:1-4
And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration. [2] Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables. [3] Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. [4] But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

Moses tried it before he almost cut his life short until his father inlaw intervened.
Exodus 18:17-18
    And Moses' father in law said unto him, The thing that thou doest is not good. [18] Thou wilt surely wear away, both thou, and this people that is with thee: for this thing is too heavy for thee; thou art not able to perform it thyself alone.

It only a man that knows his calling and be focus there[b]. JESUS NEVER COUNSELLED ANYBODY[/b]
A man that ask peope to fill form to see them still did better than the one that will not even give their matters attention
Luke 12:13-14
    And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me. [14] And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?

So my counsel is ,you go to the pastor in question and ask in humility for clarification on this matter if all these explanation are not sufficient to answer your curiousity

The point is ,It was not every sick man jesus met that he healed. but he came to set the captives free.
Mark 6:4-5
But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house. [5] And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

Jesus said lazarus sickness would not lead to his death, but the man died and jesus wept.
John 11:4
, " When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

Acts 3:2-8
And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple; [3] Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms. [4] And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us. [5] And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them. [6] Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. [7] And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ancle bones received strength. [8] And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.


this particular man was brought daily to the gate , how many times did jesus pass there but didnt heal him.
Jesus saw several people at the pool of bethsaida , he healed only one of them! (john 5:2)

Call jesus fake prophet for saying lazarus would not die.

The healing as we are told by poster is a place people are taught on how to recieve by the word. I have people that Have been healed there. Some even recieve healing before pastor chris lay hands on them. some still need more faith to be ready. Eve jesus cant work miracle without your faith!

If you went and didnt recieve, you go through the classes again but for you to come out with this kind of condemnation, your heart didnt really believe. you went in with critical mind. its like saying "i dont beleive but lets see"

I wonder why its so hard for some people to believe the simple gospel. Pastor Chris ,Tb joshua, Benny Hinn etc dont need to pay anybody to pretend they were healed. It is the heritage of any christian. Satan is pumpin billions of dollar to attack the church and discredit men of God we look up to. but nigerians are gullible to bad news.The critics will say it is staged and if medical proof unthenticate the miracle they will say it is Juju or majic .
I read a fuuny post of a man (ingrate i will say) got healed of eye problem in tb joshua church but because the wife didnt get pregnant tb joshua became fake and why should tb joshua give wheel chair to cripple.

A healing minister may not get 100 percent result because several things are involved. How strong the annointing is, the faith of the minister and the faith of the reciever and the grace of God. Jesus did not get 100 percent result either . Some of us have loved ones that have been healed by these ministers. so if 2 out of 100 , celebrate the 98 that got healed and pray for the minister but dont condemn for the 2 .

If you watch the documentary against Benny Hinn, if you dont know the scriptures you will believe. Satan sponsor many of these accusations and some so called christians and men of God who lack the power of God in their lives are helping the devil carry out his assignment

What is so hard in casting out devils that bribery has to be involved ? IT IS CRAZY.

The most important thing today should be salvation not prosperity.
2 Cor. 8:9
For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

P[lease where bcan I find these high priest to pay my tithe just once as Abraham did in the order of melchizedek
@chukwudi44
if you have a pastor, you pay your tithe under his ministry.he recieves it onbehalf of the high priest.
Hebrews 7:8
And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

As long as there is a high priest there has to be tithing. There were different High priests and different Orders. The first Popular Order was the Order of Melchizedek. The next Order was Aaronic Order etc. if theres a new law there has to be a new high priest . So if the law of Moses has been abolished and the order of levitical priesthood. We should understand there is a new high priest and new law. So we still pay tithe to the new high priest

@KunleOshob and co
if you claim that financial partnership is unscriptural its unfortunate. people who always advocate for the poor are the real crooks because they have hidden agenda. Deny scriptures and focus only on the twisted ones that you dont even understand.
In the OT every man had a specific amount apart from the tithe they bring to Gods house, they all give money to support the work and maitainance in the temple and also for repairs and service. i wont borther to give you scriptures because you will not read it as usual . But people that ignore truth like you guys always have something up in your sleves. there are different kinds of givings in the bible. every church has their different outreaches to the poor . every  one of us give to poor. why are you offended that we give to a man of God. is it not my money. and most importanltly the primary way to help the poor is through teaching and also for the poor to give. Elijah made the widow give her last. If Arch bishop Idahosa made people give their last kobo it is based on the same principle i believe. It is carnal for you guys to think Idahosa made people do it so he could posses their money because you feel he has same greedy tendency like you. church money does not belong to the pastor to eat. He will die before his time, and if that happens it is between him and God. im still bessed anyhow even if e chop my money
everybody must give. thats why the poor widow had to give even her last mite and jesus commended her. but it is crooks that attacks others for giving in church and giving to pastors. how can you say partnership is unscriptural. people that get angry at giving are crooks and covetous people because . Remember what happened between jesus and KunleOshob, sorry i meant Judas. when the woman poured designer perfume on Jesus feet
John 12:5-7
   Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? [6] This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein. [7] Then said Jesus, Let her alone,
SO LET US ALONE! WE ARE NOT COMPLAINING.

@kunleOshob
when i say im a partner to a man of God. i mean I partner with them by sowing finacially ,I didnt say they are my partner in bussiness.Well im not surprise you are not used to such language because you dont give. Anyway anybody can be a partner to any ministry by giving. TBN is not a person it is a tv ministry. You can start your partnership through them and see how your finances move up.

Repent of what?, Im a partner with TBN,Crefflo Dollar, Chris Oyakhilome and benny Hinn, and im stupendously blessed. i am a giver and I look for opportunity to sow. why should i repent of my giving. You guys eat you tithe , you dont give , you look for scriptures to justify your greed and covetousness.You are chasing money , but money is chasing me.
Economy melt down is not a new thing , it is a period of wealth transfer for we the givers its comes from time to time even in the bible days. But we have been blessed by the mesages of Men of God who warned us ahead of time about this crisis. for your information it will last for seven years!. I have a pastor over me unlike you guys and i will continue to sign BIG FAT CHEQUES for men of God. By the time MELTDOWN show you finish you will believe in giving.
2 Chron. 20:20 b
, believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.

@tbaba83
Sorry , living bible translation for john 7:12 not amplified bible as stated above

@tbaba83
Men some pages in my Bible must be missing?
DID JESUS RECIEVE ANY MONEY FOR HIS WORK? CHAI you people seff

I didnt mean jesus recieve salary for healing the sick. but that he received supports for the work of ministry.
The missing page of your bible is the book of luke.
Luke 8:3
   ,  And  Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.
or where did you think Judas got the money from by which he was helping himself with?. Jesus had solid and heavy partners that were signing cheques for him! ( come on now!) so tey   some KunleOchops called him crook.
John 7:12b (amplified)
, "some said he's a wonderful man while (KunleOshob and co) others said "No, he's duping the public

@ kunleOshob
youre best described in Heb12:8.  I gave you few scriptures which you completely ignored. well you just proved to everyone your insincerity.
I would have love to expound certain things to you but your display of pride will not allow you to admit where youre wrong, did jesus not recieve money for his work? did Paul not recieve. he even recommended double honour for some
1 Tim. 5:17-18
   Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. [18] For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is
worthy of his reward.

was he refering to poor people here? if Paul worked with his hand in Corinth he did it by choice  because of many KunleOshobs there  and he recieved support in other Churches like Philipians because people like us were  there

The post we are contributing to is talking about a pastor raisng money for church project but you gradually shifted it to glutony etc
You know, ignorance is not lack of knowledge but IGNORING KNOWLEDGE. Investing time to correct you is waste .even if you see the truth arrrogance will not allow you to admitt.
People like you dont have a pastor which means  youve not been well raised or raised at all. all those campus interdenomination gatherings . You grew up as critics in Gods house. youre best described in Heb 12:8. 
People like you cant stay under a Pastor You end up starting a rebellous church which wont last. and finally get to a place you dont go to any church again  claiming CHURCH IS IN THE HEART".or" i HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE CHURCH "ETC
Any sincere person should have understood those scriptures i quoted for you.
Calling  Idahosa thief and Chris Oyakhilome , and others names. because you secretely admire them  and wish you have what they have.Poor people criticise successful people. But if the poor man listen to successful  pwople ,he will soon be rich.

@poster. this is ignorance on rampage, whtat makes wearing of trouser by women a wrong thing. it is their choice. the bible is not agaisnt trouser. trouser is neighter for men nor women .

@kunleOshob,
Well from what you wrote, it seem you have some level of exposure to the Bible. But i don’t think any true minister of God will use public means to tear the church apart in public eye like youre doing. 1cor 6:1-3.
The scriptures you quted were taken out of context.

Titus 1:11 “Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. [/b]

For you to understand it properly you need to back up a little to vs 10.
[b] Titus 1:10
    For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: [11] Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
You can see that it was talking about jewish leaders  that are mixing Judaism with Christ.
Verse 14 still confirms that.

[b]Titus 1:14
    Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. 

There are 2 reasons why giving is important in Gods kingdom.
[b]1. It is Gods nature in us to give
2. We run the ministry by our support
3. We receive only by our giving.

It is satans plan to attack the church by discrediting of ministers and prosperity by attacking giving and making them poor by not giving.Jesus said “ give and it shall be given” When a man of God ask for cheques ,was it for his pocket or for the work of God. Jesus had people that were giving him money to run the work.

Luke 8:2-3
    And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, [3] And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.
Paul had people that sow into the ministry too and into his personal need.

Philip. 4:14-16
   “ Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction. [15] Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only. [16] For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity”, [i][/i]

Pastor has the right to tell people to give for church projects but not for his personal needs. He deals with his needs by his faith and by giving also. But the members have responsibility of taking care of their pastor too even if he doesn’t demend it, they do it for their prosperity. Read vs 17

, 17] “Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account. [18] But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God. [19] But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
T
here is giving to God (out love and worship), there is giving to the church project . The church money is not for the pastor. There is giving to the pastor too.

Galatians 6:6-8
    Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. [7] Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. [8] For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.


Matthew 10:41
    He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
If you are not comfortable with how a church is run, focus on your own assignment of you have one not to shame ministry work of those who are busy doing something for God.

@kunleoshob , well seem very obvious youre not born again there will be no need to give any response since you may not have the facility in you to understand. But if you ask intelligent question , I will gladly enlighten you.
2 Tim. 2:23
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
but Im not a crook parading as man of God and i dont know why some of you guys have such passionate hatred for men of God in a generation like this where millions are being blessed by them and coming out of darkness to light

@poster, Nothing is wrong if a Pastor is led of God to bless cheques and ask people to give. It is purely scriptural.
2 Cor. 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
so long as he didnt dip hands into anybodys pocket. Financial prosperity comes through giving. A man of God does not prosper by demanding money from people. A prophet may ask people to do some things that dont make sense. but there will be result. Consider the story of Elijah and the poor widow.
1 Kings 17:11-16
And as she was going to fetch it, he called to her, and said, Bring me, I pray thee, a morsel of bread in thine hand. [12] And she said, As the Lord thy God liveth, I have not a cake, but an handful of meal in a barrel, and a little oil in a cruse: and, behold, I am gathering two sticks, that I may go in and dress it for me and my son, that we may eat it, and die. [13] And Elijah said unto her, Fear not; go and do as thou hast said: but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring it unto me, and after make for thee and for thy son. [14] For thus saith the Lord God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the Lord sendeth rain upon the earth. [15] And she went and did according to the saying of Elijah: and she, and he, and her house, did eat many days. [16] And the barrel of meal wasted not, neither did the cruse of oil fail, according to the word of the Lord, which he spake by Elijah.
IF you are uncertain if the man is led by God or not, well it not anybodys business, he has his judgement with God.

@ poster. It is none of anybodys bussiness what people give in churches.No pastor will force anyone into giving. the bible is clear
2 Cor. 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
So if any pastor acts inapropriately its still none of anybodys business. leave him alone. A man of God does as he is led of God. the result will speak. carefully read the story bellow

1 Kings 17:11-15
And as she was going to fetch it, he called to her, and said, Bring me, I pray thee, a morsel of bread in thine hand. [12] And she said, As the Lord thy God liveth, I have not a cake, but an handful of meal in a barrel, and a little oil in a cruse: and, behold, I am gathering two sticks, that I may go in and dress it for me and my son, that we may eat it, and die. [13] And Elijah said unto her, Fear not; go and do as thou hast said: but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring it unto me, and after make for thee and for thy son. [14] For thus saith the Lord God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the Lord sendeth rain upon the earth. [15] And she went and did according to the saying of Elijah: and she, and he, and her house, did eat many days.

people give so that they can prosper ,not so that the pastor can prosper. if you dont like it just close your eyes and move on

,

Halliema:
"a man of God"(pastor obadare) died recently and went to hell(bt wz granted 2nd chance by God to come bk 2 lyf), he saw pastor bimbo odukoya in hell and asked her what she wz doin there and she replied dat it wz coz of her dressing,hairdo lifestyles in general dat led her into hell fire(D story z in all around in the papers), so Pastor chris is the male version of pastor bimbo, God is nt only looking at the inside bt also the outside o.warn pastor chris!!!

This is the problem with Nigerians. they feed from other peoples experiences. A man will see what he believes. God would send a woman to hell because she wore mini skirt!. is God now fashion designer?. that one is even small. some chave claimed they saw the rapture and only few were taken. these few dont wear make up,earings or perfumes. but those left behind wore all these things and did not cover their hair!. a mans experience is not the bible , we should judge all things by the word.
Galatians 1:8-9 says
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached un"to you, let him be accursed. [9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Christians are praying for the endtime move of God got knowing that the move is on already. Just get into the flow of the supernatural where miraclelous become daily affair

You have not done your research well enof. These you have mention had a past and we all knew them before they came to limeligth.

@rcentre Pastor Adeboye didnt start the RCCG church, remember that , he was pastored by Rev.Joseph Olufemi Akindayomi of blessed memory before he became the G.O.


Dont conclude so fast if i did my research well or not, but rather focus on your own deceptions. i was not refering to pastor Adeboye as founder of redeem . I knew he was not the founder but Pa Akindayomi. I was talking of pa Akindayomi himself. Why dont you research his origin , He was in cherubin ( Aladura) White garment church when he claimed God called him to start Redeem. I dont have any problem with that. He is your Pastor i believe and you didnt question his c&s foundation or who mentored him. why is Tb joshua a threat. God calls people differently, Elisha had a mentor but Elijah did not, Joshua had a mentor Moses did not. Timothy had Paul but who converted Paul who was his mentor. He got his calling before he even met other beleivers. Anytime God has a new thing to do in any generation he usually use foolish things to confound the wise. HOW CAN YOU MENTOR SOMEONE WHO IS GREATER THAN YOU . HE SHOULD MENTOR YOU RATHER. If you read the book "Gods Generals" you will find ministers there that had strange callings outside conventional pentecostal protocols.But you celebrate them because they are OYINBO. Let me ask you who converted Kenneth Hagin, who mentored him. why dont you research into TB Jshua background to find out what he has to say about his christian foundation . i can help you with a link if you care in honesty.

Youre not supposed to have favourite pastors and preachers. You are supposed to be under a pastor PERIOD! .

please can anybody help me with links on how to get the transcript of the controversial slam by pastor Bakare

rcentre:
Benny Hinn is not God, his personal validation of T.B Joshua is inconsequential. Lets be very objective, where is T.B.Joshua from?
Who pastor him? When did he become born again? What church was he in before he was called into the ministry?

Pls, answer these questions.

Let me also ask you ,who pastored the founder of redeem, who pastored, idahosa, why should TB joshua calling threaten anybody, Do you have more discernment than Benny Hinn. Any true healing minister will recognise a Man that has same healing anointing. I hope you wont soon call Benny Hinn a devil . how many ministers do we praise today that you dont know their history. They will be labeled devils if they visit synagogue like the invitation of Chris Oyakhilome became his sin for those who have been "SENT BY GOD TO DESTROY HIM" for close to ten years now.

The above is pure lies and fantasies. . . , otherwise what is the basis of your assertions?. . the source of your misinformation?

If youre not yet covinced after reading my post there would be no reason trying to convince you.it only means one thing. You dont have the facility yet to understand truth and i will put you in prayers. The bible answered it all in Titus 3:9
    But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

The problem with CELESTIAL CHURCH started with OSCHOFFA the late founder. He allowed ungodly practices which became foundations and are now hard to change. especially after his death .I believe he was called of God, most Pentecostals may not agree with me, but hear me out.
In the days of the emergence of Cele, Africa was a dark continent and a den of idolatry practices . God needed a counter power. He began to call ordinary men. Farmers ,carpenters etc. Oschoffa was called in a spectacular way, with proof and mighty signs , He raised dead to life, Healed the sick. That was the best God could get from Africa .Many people were converted from idolatry to the church or to “Christ” but people soon began to desire physical things to put their faith on. So the church allowed “parallel truths” replica of truth and idolatry. Candle and eggs to replace animal sacrifice, incense and all to replace ritualistic worship, water cleansing to replace ritualistic bath. palm front crosses to replace chrm and armulet. Rules and laws like "touch not taste not." These were comfortable for the people of those days considering their background it wasn’t uncommon. The church began to build on suggestions, “inspiration, revelation and prophesy, There was a time of hope in the 60s when they used to have some bible classes, you must have your class card to be anointed , but all that stopped.
Whenever truth is rejected ,men go after false value, like Aaron building “golden calf” in the days of Moses, Roman catholism too was born by the introduction of roman idols, and chaplets into the church,
The word of God is our guide and judge. A man of God has to study the gospel to be sound. Miracles cant teach you the bible. Even prophecies are to be judged by the word, not by feeling or experience.
2 Tim. 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
You judge visions, you judge doctrines and discern by the word.

Galatians 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

1 Cor. 14:29 says “ Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge”.
It is not everything Oschoffa received that was inspired by God. But anything goes where there is no soundness of teaching. In Celestial church there is or was no understanding of the difference between old testament and new. That is why most of the ritualistic deeds have their references in the Old testament laws. Now you may want to quote for me that there was reference to candle in the temple in book of revelation. but you must know that its cetainly npot refering to this wax candle stick made from fat but lampstands which was powered by annointing oil made from olive tree (ex 30:20) but i dont want to go into that now. For example Celes goes barefoot because God told Moses and Joshua to remove their shoe because the ground was holy ground. But jesus that we follow and Paul wore shoes even inside the holy temple. Do you follow Moses experience or Jesus .
Col. 2:20-23
Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, [21] (Touch not; taste not; handle not; [22] Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? [23] Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
Many in Cele today don’t understand what salvation is, though many really love God from their hearth but faith comes only by “hearing and hearing by the WORD”,
Paul commended the church that had bible study culture
Acts 17:11
, ” These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
In a nutshell “THE PROBLEM WITH CELESTIAL” is the foundation.
Oschoffa did a great job , he walked faithfully in the little light he had. Tb Joshua had similar call, Orimolade, even the founder of RCCG people not so educated but they gave room to improvement.
The entire structure of CELE has to change, if not ,people will continue in spiritual blindness ready to argue ready to defend and yet remain spiritual babies or even unsaved. We have to give the word its supremacy. but if we cant question the doctrines in the name of "ise oluwa ,awamaridi ni" or " the ways of God are mysterious" things will tend to degenerate more and more. you dont need to call jehovah in prayer, God has given all power to to the name of jesus. that is why you cant use Jehovah name to cast out devils or heal the sick. You dont needd to call angels name, they are you servants.Col. 2:18 says "Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,[i][/i]



joeagbaje@yahoo.com

The problem with CELESTIAL CHURCH started with OSCHOFFA the late founder. He allowed ungodly practices which became foundations and are now hard to change. especially after his death .I believe he was called of God, most Pentecostals may not agree with me, but hear me out.
In the days of the emergence of Cele, Africa was a dark continent and a den of idolatry practices . God needed a counter power. He began to call ordinary men. Farmers ,carpenters etc. Oschoffa was called in a spectacular way, with proof and mighty signs , He raised dead to life, Healed the sick. That was the best God could get from Africa .Many people were converted from idolatry to the church or to “Christ” but people soon began to desire physical things to put their faith on. So the church allowed “parallel truths” replica of truth and idolatry. Candle and eggs to replace animal sacrifice, incense and all to replace ritualistic worship, water cleansing to replace ritualistic bath. palm front crosses to replace chrm and armulet. Rules and laws like "touch not taste not." These were comfortable for the people of those days considering their background it wasn’t uncommon. The church began to build on suggestions, “inspiration, revelation and prophesy, There was a time of hope in the 60s when they used to have some bible classes, you must have your class card to be anointed , but all that stopped.
Whenever truth is rejected ,men go after false value, like Aaron building “golden calf” in the days of Moses, Roman catholism too was born by the introduction of roman idols, and chaplets into the church,
The word of God is our guide and judge. A man of God has to study the gospel to be sound. Miracles cant teach you the bible. Even prophecies are to be judged by the word, not by feeling or experience.
2 Tim. 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
You judge visions, you judge doctrines and discern by the word.

Galatians 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

1 Cor. 14:29 says “ Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge”.
It is not everything Oschoffa received that was inspired by God. But anything goes where there is no soundness of teaching. In Celestial church there is or was no understanding of the difference between old testament and new. That is why most of the ritualistic deeds have their references in the Old testament laws. Now you may want to quote for me that there was reference to candle in the temple in book of revelation. but you must know that its cetainly npot refering to this wax candle stick made from fat but lampstands which was powered by annointing oil made from olive tree (ex 30:20) but i dont want to go into that now. For example Celes goes barefoot because God told Moses and Joshua to remove their shoe because the ground was holy ground. But jesus that we follow and Paul wore shoes even inside the holy temple. Do you follow Moses experience or Jesus .
Col. 2:20-23
Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, [21] (Touch not; taste not; handle not; [22] Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? [23] Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
Many in Cele today don’t understand what salvation is, though many really love God from their hearth but faith comes only by “hearing and hearing by the WORD”,
Paul commended the church that had bible study culture
Acts 17:11
, ” These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
In a nutshell “THE PROBLEM WITH CELESTIAL” is the foundation.
Oschoffa did a great job , he walked faithfully in the little light he had. Tb Joshua had similar call, Orimolade, even the founder of RCCG people not so educated but they gave room to improvement.
The entire structure of CELE has to change, if not ,people will continue in spiritual blindness ready to argue ready to defend and yet remain spiritual babies or even unsaved.

joeagbaje@yahoo.com