₦airaland Forum

stats don't lie

tbaba1234:
Joel Obi with a man of the match performance.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIQZu_cVwAA9NAj.jpg

Onyekuru's All competition:

https://www.transfermarkt.com/henry-onyekuru/leistungsdaten/spieler/380415/plus/0?saison=2016

I've always said stats don't like. Look at Moses Simon's stats below for All competition and Jupiler league alone. I will include the link so you will be so sure it's actually Simon's stats from last season:

now talk true. does that stat support your position or not?

All competitions: https://www.transfermarkt.com/moses-simon/leistungsdaten/spieler/274862/plus/0?saison=2016

Jupiler league alone: https://www.transfermarkt.com/moses-simon/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/274862/saison/2016/wettbewerb/BE1/verein/157

Mickael2:
he was the attacking midfielder, which makes it worse. at least for a winger playing in a 4-5-1 you can argue that he stays too far away from the goal to actually score goals like Samuel Kalu, but this is an AMF with only 5 assists all season long. Even Iwobi, Aluko etc etc made more impact than he did, so your point is?

gbam!

tglobal:
@forgiveness, always blowing things out of proportion to support your narrative.

First of all, Amokachi's claim was that people paid cash to play. That is not nepotism.

On "chance and opportunity happening to those in the National team", there is no occupation or nation in the world where this is not the case. Even in the corporate world in the most advanced countries, opportunity will have to be seized and not necessarily by the best people. The question to ask is "are they are good enough"?. David villa has been invited back to the Spanish national team. Are there no better strikers in the whole of spain? is that also Nepotism? Mutiu Adepoju made the 2002 world cup team list. What did he do to merit that place? It suits you to always highlight the isolated negatives to justify your view point. What you end up doing is poisoning people's minds. You are doing more to stoke the fire of tribalism than those you are accusing

Right. But Rohr's authority is final authority as long as he is the coach.. Whether he is right or wrong will reflect on the team's performances.
If he likes what he sees in camp, then so be it. We don't know his playing philosophy or what he is looking for.

I agree that Kayode is better statistically. I don't know what necessitated Aaron's invitation. But i'm tempted to think that different opponents sometimes calls for different approach based on what Rohr himself said in the past. Rohr has his own playing philosophy. it's either the philosophy fails him, or makes him succeed.

komekn:
To make an assumption based on presumption is a recipe for continous mistakes.

You cannot assume that Rohr know them better than anybody else. Even if he has seen him in training close up,doesn't make him final authority on Kayode.

So many coaches have made big huge mistakes about players who have been close up and personal with them.

Particularly a coach that can invite a player who has essentially only played youth football recovering from injury straight to the national team over and above proven and tested players.


Cohen Bramall 7 months ago was playing non league football. Spent 3/4 weeks on trial at Sheffield Wednesday then Crewe, Crystal palace, and even lowly Keele Town. Goes to Arsenal on trial on the second day Arsene Wenger, signs him. Where the other coaches blind some who were even with UEFA A badges. I'm trying to highlight that some coaches can be blind.

Somehow he Kayode was not blind to Pep Guardiola but is blind to Rohr who has decided to bring in Aaron Samuel over Kayode. I am not able to say too much because I really don't know much about Aaron Samuel. Statistically speaking I would say Kayode is on a different level.

Our players will go anywhere to leave the country. What does that tell you? Besides those countries you mentioned also have players in the so called inferior leagues in Europe.

Let me add that Nwakali is a Man City player

Afam4eva:
I have not said any of those other leagues are and the issue about our domestic league is a topic for another day.

The pint remains that our football is not growing as this should reflect in our players ability to get spots in big teams in europe. Smaller countries like Cote diviore, Ghana, Cameroon and Senegal are making it big in europe. Why should ours be different?

i'm bewildered! Let me see who can come to your defense now..

forgiveness:
If you claim there's no nepotism in the National team, you can ask Amokachi. He was there and confessed oh ha!

In this light, at least drew my postulations and assertions to state my comments,and besides NFF is public office, therefore not immune or exempted from public criticism.


However, it's vividly clear that chance and opportunity happens to those in the National team. It's not necessary because they are the best talent in the whole Nigeria. This is because we can see when see many players doing exceptional well in Europe despite been ignored by the National team selector.

In short, they doing better than all we raised so far.

The real question is how is it that a country of over 180 million that are football crazy can't have a domestic league with a good standard?

Modified.
So you really think that any league besides those big names are whack?

Afam4eva:
Norway? Chai, out footballers don suffer. How is it that a country of almost 180 million heads cannot produce a dozen players who play for elite clubs (Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Bayern Munchen, PSG, AC Milan, Inter, Juventus, ROMA). Something is definitely wrong somewhere.

lol. What tribe is Akpeyi? He didn't just get his first invite. I'm sure other goal keeper coaches have favored him in the past. So where does tribalism come in?

tglobal:
I couldn't agree more, Joebie. I am also waiting for the accusation that will be made against the new goalkeeper trainer if Akpeyi starts the next match, considering that the "tribalism" tag can will not exactly fit

Chidiebere Nwakali made Whoscored's best XI in Norway last week.

I'm on top of this now. Aina missing!

It seems we are heading for a stalemate.

Esiti, Simon and Onyekuru are still on.
Gent 0-0 Anderlecht

87 minutes played

in fact I didnt want to take you on your earlier accusations. In fact you are waiting to cry foul in the screening of candidates for the national teams. Let's get logical, list the names of coaches among the shortlist, you think are best for our national teams. You can definitely back it up with their achievements.

forgiveness:
*yawn* provide facts and stop ranting. Biko!

where you play can make you either look good, bad, or average.. Pick one

blueto:
still doing what he is known for defensively. The problem is that his attacking prowess are not well utilised. He doesn't get much of the ball when he advances forward. And gets a lot of defensive pressure from Leicester's “parking the bus” system. I think they may need a coach replacement.

cool! lay out the facts on ground, and the player(s) you have in mind in comparison.

forgiveness:
Of course, I still maintain that Tiago Ilori is better than some players based on the facts on ground.

Yes labelling is constant with us. I was nearly labelled as someone who only canvasses for old and "finished players".. lol.. So I guess we all have been at the receiving end.
Trying to understand why someone makes a statements first, listening to their reasons, and countering it with points is a better way to go.. The problem sometimes is people get so mad when someone has an opinion very different from theirs. we need to cool down. There will always be diverse views as long as we are living on this planet. And we can only learn when we try to understand where the person is coming from, also considering that many people are not particularly good at expressing themselves. So it calls for patience while discussing. No be fight.

tglobal:
To everyone else, please get off your high horses and stop pretending that the same syndrome doesn’t afflict you. We are witnesses of how others have accused fellow forumites of what they are not simply because they disagree. Examples of this abound and include the following

1. Criticize KC – Tag him a Kelechi hater (if they are not igbo, use the tribalist tag)
2. Criticize Awoniyi, Success and Manu crew – You hate Nigeria
3. Criticize the local league – You hate the local league
4. Measure Nigerian player using global standards – You are not patriotic
5. Pep doesn’t start KC and other black players - Pep is a racist

There is beauty in diversity of thought and opinion and we should celebrate that. I cringed the other day when komekn was accused of being unpatriotic simply because he rates Nigerian players like any non-Nigerian would. Same way politicians in power label the opposition

Recent club performances

blueto:
in what sense?

we are the same then in that respect. What's your opinion on Ndidi?

blueto:
Yes bro, I started developing interests in Leicester games as a result of the Nigerians in the team. Matches are not very mouthwatering to me if I don't spot a Nigerian playing

nice point lol.. normally I don't support these teams when our players are not used.

blueto:
ThankGod Alex Iwobi is not in this Arsenal squad that is currently be spanked 4-0 by Liverpool. The fans would likely point accusing fingers to him if he was in such encounter.

Okay then defend with reasons/stats. Have a healthy debate. You can still do that passionately.

joseph1013:
He's clearly passionate when he picks a player to defend. I see nothing wrong in it. I see no reason to label him for that especially when we can call up players he has done so for across board.

Gent 0-0 Anderlecht (Half Time)

It's Moses Simon versus Henry Onyekuru, as both start for their respective sides

it's one thing to make a point. How you make the point also matters. It's one thing to defend a specific player. How you defend the player also matters. It's the emotion people put in to defend a player that can easily reveal their tribe. Else why talk about it like your life depends on it? It's similar to the kind of discussion we have when we go political..
State that stats/reasons, and let's continue a healthy discussion -- that way it wouldn't seem sentimental.

joseph1013:
Ah...as I assumed, he shot himself in the foot. Herein the change in the goalpost when they are forced to discuss intelligibly.

You first said he is against anything Igbo, yet when quizzed about the Igbos he had been on the line for, you quickly change to,"he doesn't mention Ebuehi again". If changing to Aina from Ebuehi makes him a Yoruba tribalistic, does changing from Shehu to Ebuehi make him Igbo tribalistic? Are you following my argument? Are you unconsciously alluding to your lack of basic knowledge of the rules of an argument, one of which is, cover your base.

But again, what if he now prefers Aina? Is Aina not better than Ebuehi in that position? Do reports from the Eagles camp not tell us he is rated highly? Do we not have access to the web where we watch the games of the two of them, and see for ourselves that Aina looks the one better suited for the position?

You see, you offer nothing concrete.

Well they are both in the CHAN team. But from what I saw, Eduwo is better. I remember one of the officials feeling vindicated as regards Eduwo's inclusion after that match against Benin. Eduwo is a sure starter in that CHAN team. So we can't go by highest goals in the domestic league ALONE. Eduwo is a polished forward, he plays like he's had experience in Europe. Mind you, he also scored in the following NPFL game, immediately after that CHAN game -- just like Rabiu Alli did.

Mickael2:
I would definitely prefer Odey. I have watched his matches a little bit more so I may be biased towards that corner, that's why I don't really talk about the CHAN, I hardly followed then. do you agree with the coach though?

As much as I would have liked Manu Garba to continue, Finidi is very much qualified. Would have preferred him for U20 though.

maidaboi:
#FINIDIforUNDER17

No doubt I agree with you.

Have you seen Kingsley Eduwo play? Odey and Eduwo, who do you prefer?

I watched

Mickael2:
yes, he may have his reasons. my point us based entirely on potential output. I'd rather have Onyekuru one on one against the goalkeeper, maybe the coach doesn't like a winger that doesn't provide width because Onyekuru likes to cut in, that's for the coach, like I said my assertions were made based solely on my own perceptions

Based on current stats, I agree.. But don't forget that Rohr has been seeing Moses Simon in camp. Do you think he just loves the boy for not reason?

Mickael2:
when I said Onyekuru should be there, it was based entirely on my own perception. in fact sef, I never called for the inclusion of Onyekuru but Kayode remember? and if you ask me from today till tomorrow I will still say that both deserve that spot more than Moses Simon

That's my point.. still waiting for stats and reasons.. if he can't supply those, will he concede? If not, it's sentimental

TheGoodJoe:
Your reaction when someone tells you AWONIYI is better than IHEANACHO.

Let's not forget Moses Simon did very well at the Europa league. And Simon have been in SE and have had decent games. With the national team,
changes need to be done gradually, of course as long as we are winning. However, Onyekuru is better, based on recent club stats. Again, we can say based on other factors it could tilt the other way. Let me say again, coaches make decisions based on various factors. Let's not say Simon has past glory alone. If you ask me who I prefer, I will say Onyekuru. But to say there is foul play in selection, that's another matter. You are not the coach, you don't know what he is looking for. He has ran the rule over Onyekuru as well.

Mickael2:
Onyekuru scored more than Moses Simon this past season and this season neither of them has registered any goal but at least Onyekuru has created an assist from one if his rebound strikes, please tell me how Onyekuru is not better

The problem with tribalism is the same as racism. We are raised up to have these sentiments. We are not born with the sentiments. Which is why a section of the country may feel short changed in any specific sector in the country, even though evidences show that it is not entirely true. For example I am not an Igbo person, and I'm sure i've had only few people from my tribe ever play for SE, but the fact remains that Igbos have produced most of the talents in Nigeria especially in recent times. The Okochas, Nwankwo's etc did not make it to Nigeria's respective teams because of their tribe but their talent. If I am making a case for any player to be invited I don't think tribe, but when someone starts hyping a player I would start to think in my head, why the hype? You don't have to say much, let stats do the talking. The first thing that comes to my mind is to check that person's tribe because that's how we are. Stats speak. If you give me the stats, I will concede without suspicions. But for one to say this player is better than that player, what is your yardstick? These things are debatable, but don't ever shift the goal post next time when defending your tribesmen.

I've called for Adegbenro, who I believe is yoruba. I loved what I saw, and I posted the videos here. I've called for Emenike, even though I didn't like his style during his playing days. And my reason was simply we needed that energy in attack. And since we have someone like Nwakame, I don't think we have much to worry. That's got nothing to do with tribe. Besides, these are not my tribesmen. Aaron Samuel have been called upon. His past stats with SE is not bad. But at club level, he hasn't done much. So the reason, maybe his physicality again -- granted. No foul play.

I've called for our foreign-born players, because I believe we need to win the war because in future we may be lacking again, but we will have them at our disposal. Is Tammy better than Dessiers? it's too early to say. Are they better than our home based players? I can't say. But they are plying their trade at a higher stage, so they have the advantage especially as our league is whack.

Really, there is no need for the emotions, unless you have some sentiments. Discuss with your facts, and whoever can't back up their assertions, should concede. Then I don't think anyone will call others tribalistic.

John Obuh is not yoruba. But Kayode and Ajagun were among his boys. My brother there are so many examples that point to the fact that these coaches cannot ignore talent when they want to succeed. Even those saying Siasia has his boys, but how many of his players where Ijaws? Keshi wasn't tribalistic, although I didn't like some of his decisions at the time. I felt he was doing some underhand business with agents.

I agree that tribalism CAN be a factor with our indigenous coaches, but it's not a big factor in their selection, and there should be no room for those suspicions especially when we have Rohr in charge.

Kog45:
My man wetin i tell u yesterday, this issue of tribal w scattered this thread.Next time if u cannot have healthy arguments with someone don't quote, just move on.Did u know some people don't quote themselves and is not something good for this thread,we are all brothers here and main objective is d success of Super Eagles irrespective of player involved.Hope u remember that there was no single Yoruba in fanny Amu team to Japan93(icons4 if i make mistake pls correct)but who care,when they won U17 world cup,nobody care

Thanks I'm previleged to contribute my little bit

bossto:
ok...thanks and i must also commend you for contributing so much to this forum,and enlightening some of us here..

why your mind think go that side?

femianski:
sadness is when you hear Victor Moses gets injured today
I pray it won't happen

Ighalo is first to arrive

bossto:
Any update from camp?