₦airaland Forum

CANTICLES:
Proverb 8:24 " I was brought forth (chuwl) " and psalm 90:2 " earth and the productive land are brought forth (chuwl)" , ?

The discussion has been about the diffrent Hebrew words for "bought forth" in proverbs 8:24 "when there were no depths I was bought forth"
and "brought forth" in Psalms 90:2 "befote the mountains were bought forth"
which you wrongly said were the same word.

The sentence being talked about in psalms was not "earth and the productive land are brought forth"
which you have twisted it around to be,
jw twists and lies, and changes the subject etc, often.

CANTICLES:
Gentleman, whats the hebrew word translated "brought forth here . " you brought forth the earth and the productive land" psalm 90:2 ?

Stop changing the matter that I posted about which is the same as lying,
you said the words for "bought forth" in those Proverbs and Psalms verses are the same words,
they are not as I showed.

The Hebrew words that we get "bought forth" from can mean many things depending on what is being spoken about.

Gen_14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

King Melchizedek didn't give birth to, or create the bread and wine, he bought out bread and wine for Abraham.

In Proverbs 8:23 the Word of God, was "setup" (anointed) - in verse 24 He was "bought forth" to begin the creation of all things.

CANTICLES:
Mr John , read properly infact what you wrote above will give the person that start this thread more reason to embarass .

Psalm 90:2 " mountains were brought forth (yalad), or you brought forth (chul/chiyl) the earth and the productive land " , are u telling me this doesnt mean our earth is Created ?

What I told you is that you are wrong,
the words that "bought forth" come from in Proverbe and Psalms that you quoted
are not the same words, which you said that they are.
Read my reply to you again seeing as you didn't understand it.

CANTICLES:
Am not an atheist like the op ... But she has won you already coz its clear that the brought forth in proverb 8:24 is the same brought forth used in reference to the creation of earth and the world in psalm 90:2 . Funny enough, uv also said literally it means creation .

Christians have no problem with the Bible,
seeming contradictions are for those who hate the Truth,
that they continue to perish.

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.



This is what Jesus said about MizJanet:

Mat 7:6 Do not give that which is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet and turn again and tear you.

That's exactly what she does, tramples the pearls you give her, and turns again to attack you.


You really should leave those that hate Jesus to their destiny, especially that Jesus said so.

NO

but they too can follow Jesus and be saved

do you know that when you truly follow Jesus and do what He says
that you are no longer a homosexual or murderer or thief
but of course you have to also stop stealing etc.

I agree with the OP
The Jesus of the Bible is to be prayed to, and not through someone else who is dead or alive
the Jesus of the Bible is to be worshipped
the Jesus of the Bible is called God, and not a god or a diffrent god as sects claim.


some even writing their own bible and changing what is said to suit their beliefs

Christians get their belief through reading the Bible
some others get their beliefs through changing it.

Trouble with belonging to orginisations is that you believe what they preach
non denominational Christians and some orginised Churches believe what they read in the Bible and as led by the Holy Spirit
which sectarians and others of false christianity do not have.

CANTICLES:
Am not an atheist like the op ... But she has won you already coz its clear that the brought forth in proverb 8:24 is the same brought forth used in reference to the creation of earth and the world in psalm 90:2 . Funny enough, uv also said literally it means creation .

It's not clear at all, in fact it's wrong.
They are not the same word at all, you are only looking at english translations
the hebrew words in proverbs 8 for "I was brought forth" is chul chiyl
the hebrew word in psalm 90 for "bought forth" is yalad.
they both have diffrent meanings to each other, and each word has more than one meaning.

brocab:
Is this rapture before the tribulation, or after the tribulation?

I don't know, pre tribbers say before, post tribbers say after.

bingbagbo:
from your own logic.....who else is from everlasting but GOD?

We are talking about the beginning when there was only God,
and the Word was with God and the Word was God, God and the Word are from everlasting, two persons as also shown in Proverbs 8.

Christ will return in like manner as He was taken up,
and those alive in Christ at the rapture will be taken up as Christ was:

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.



Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.



1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.

bingbagbo:
hmmmmm

Isaiah 9:6 ►

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace


HOW MANY EVERLASTING FATHERS DO YOU HAVE?

Jesus is from everlasting, that's not hard to understand,
the Hebrews used the term father in a great variety of senses - as a literal father, a grandfather, an ancestor, a ruler, an instructor, a chief, a king.
these are what the hebrew word for "father" mean,
I also say that He is the father of creation, but that Isaiah verse could say the everlasting King, as He was anointed king in eternity.

The everlasting King:
Psa 93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; ....

Now point out what you think is wrong in my previous post that led to your reply.

annyplenty:
FOR THE SECOND TIME IN FEW DAYS, I HAVE BEEN SHOWN THE VISIONS PF MARK OF THE BEAST BEING ADMINISTERED.

THE STAGE IS SET BY THE ENEMY TO LAUNCH THE MARK OF THE BEAST. I WAS SHOWN HOW THE MARK WAS BEEN IMPLANTED ON THE FORE HEADS OF PEOPLE.

JESUS IS COMING. RAPTURE IS IMMINENT.

www.jesuscoming1..com

What did you see in the vision? was the mark put under the skin, like a micro chip,
or was is on the skin like a tattoo.

What is commonly called the rapture is a real event which has not happened yet

1Co 15:50 And I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I speak a mystery to you; we shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed;
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in a glance of an eye, at the last trumpet. For a trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall all be changed.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you ignorant, brothers, concerning those who are asleep, that you be not grieved, even as others who have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will also bring with Him all those who have fallen asleep through Jesus.
1Th 4:15 For we say this to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not go before those who are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.

God the Word became Jesus Christ, not God the Father

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Word was with God = two persons, and the Word was God = God and the Word are God, not god's.

Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
The Word was in the beginning with God:

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
Pro 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
Pro 8:26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
Pro 8:28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
Pro 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Pro 8:30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Joh 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
Joh 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus is God, God the Word (the Son), not God the Father (God)

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

annyplenty:
FOR THE SECOND TIME IN FEW DAYS, I HAVE BEEN SHOWN THE VISIONS PF MARK OF THE BEAST BEING ADMINISTERED.

THE STAGE IS SET BY THE ENEMY TO LAUNCH THE MARK OF THE BEAST. I WAS SHOWN HOW THE MARK WAS BEEN IMPLANTED ON THE FORE HEADS OF PEOPLE.

JESUS IS COMING. RAPTURE IS IMMINENT.

www.jesuscoming1..com

What did you see, a chip put under the skin, a tattoo?

Jacksparrow0712:
You think I care about any prophet or religion? Huhuhuhu. Bruv I can't be bothered by whatever any man says to me in the name of religion

Yet you are in the religious forum reading and posting

johnydon22:
This really shouldn't be in the science section

johnydon22 Signature:
If a perfect God with the ability to create a perfect world exists, and has desire for you to be in a perfect world, you would have been there already. He wouldn't need to run a bizarre cruel test of which results he already know

Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

johnw74:
1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;

that eternal
G166

αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).
Total KJV occurrences: 71

The Word has a never ending past, and a never ending future.

johnw74:
1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

If we Love the LORD we will do the things that He said too:
Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh_14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

We will hate evil:
Psa_97:10 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.

A Food For Thought!

I have heard that fish is good food for the brain,
and I have been told that I need to eat a whale.

Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Little ones here is child like believers

Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

If you offend one of God's little ones, and God's Angels see the hurt on God's face >>>

then look out!

johnw74:
There is quite a bit I can write on it, I may write more later giving more info if you want.


I was bought forth

Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

Proverbs 8:24 is referring to the Word of God:

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

We are also told that the Word is God:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God and the Word of God is two persons as Proverbs 8:22-30 and John 1:1 and many other verses show


Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word of God referred to in Proverbs 8:24 is also God, as the scriptures show,
and verses show that God has always existed, not created.


Psa 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
Again showing the Word is God, and other verses show God was not created.

Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
The Hebrew word for "set up" means anointed as King.

Psa 93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.
The Kings Throne is established.

Proverbs 8:23 and 24 are saying the same thing, the Word of God was set up - bought forth as King.

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
If the LORD created the Word, then that would be a work. The LORD posessed the Word before any works at all. The Word is, along with God, Eternal.

1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;

bingbagbo:
@ op, may the Lord grant you understanding

....
John 14:7–9


7 oIf you had known me, you would have pknown my Father also.4 From now on you do know him and qhave seen him.”

8 rPhilip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? tWhoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

see also 1 timothy 3:16 "GOD WAS MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH"

Jesus said that because He and the father are God, not because He and the Father are one person.
it's clear that Jesus and His Father are two persons.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pro 8:30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight,

1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;

Scholar8200:
Bible tells us Who it is that does the intercession in Heaven
Hebrews 7:25
... He ever lives to make intercession for them (those who come to God by Him)


1 John 2:1 says
...We have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ... (not Mary)

It's not possible to have mary doing what Jesus is clearly portrayed as doing He (not Mary) being our High Priest

angieberry:
That's why we have the Holy Spirit as an intercessor

And as regards to your queen mother argument, many of my catholic friends have towed this same line of reasoning, saying that Mary is a sort of link to God but remember Jesus says that the ONLY way to the Father is through HIM. No other way. So that argument is invalid!

Yes, I pray to God in me, that is I pray to Father through Jesus Spirit.

In his agony Jesus prayed the Father three times that night to deliver Him from the torture He is to go through

rc mockingly say Jesus was praying repetitively, like them repetitively saying the hail mary over and over again.

It was Jesus who said repetitive prayer is from the heathen.

rc blaspheme Jesus Christ.

Joagbaje:


. . . Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.-Daniel 11:37

Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Dan 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things

These verses are all about the a/c - beast not regarding God or any god, to talk of not having desire for women would be out of place in that verse.
In Daniels day the desire of women was to be the mother of the Messiah, the beast has no regard for the God of his fathers or the Messiah or any god.

Syncan:
So your pastor or G.O is now your LORD, ok.



SMH




I asked the question first, it is not hard to say yes or no is it? Was the psalmist praying?

Why are you so filled with bitterness,

You have it wrong, Im saying it as it is. It could be bitter to you.

now you're deviating from the issue on ground, just like Italo said you would. Chai

Why do you lie, I told you I answered, again I say look for it.

Emusan:
You don't know JWs before

When their own Watchtower can discredit a whole one time respected Christian 'Justin Martyr' just because Justin Martyr preached that Jesus died on the CROSS not on the STAKE as they wrongly teach.

But in their one time booklet which was blindly distributed before they realized ALL THE LIES they put inside and quickly removed it their ONLINE library titled Should you believe in Trinity? in the booklet, OVER 5 BIBLE THRASHERS WERE quoted because those people spoke against Trinity BUT THEY FAILED TO TELL THEIR AUDIENCE that not do those people only speak against Trinity BUT THE BIBLE AS A WHOLE.

That's why you see them in support of someone who doesn't believe in Bible whereas when we examine the content of both Psalms 90:2 and Proverb 8:24 the table will finally turn against them.

Firstly, the phrase BROUGHT FOURTH was used in the Bible severally which to be understood with the text that surround it.

Secondly, the phrase brought fourth as we see in case of Psalms 90:2 implies that mountains that seems to appear from eternity was actually brought fourth at a particular time just as Adam Clake put it in his commentary "Verse 2. Before the mountains were brought forth: The mountains and hills appear to have been everlasting; but as they were brought forth out of the womb of eternity, there was a time when they were not:..."

Thirdly, we must know that Proverb 8 was actually talking about the WISDOM OF GOD (and Jesus is the Wisdom of God) so it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to create His OWN wisdom, the Wisdom of God must be eternal just as God is eternal. Had it been that the person who raised the issue of Prov 8:24 paid close attention s/he would've seen this in the very text before that verse: "23 I have been established from everlasting, From the beginning, before there was ever an earth." NKJV

Psalm 90:2 says "...Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God" which means ONLY God is from everlasting. Surprisingly, the speaker here also said "I have been ESTABLISHED from everlasting."

Fourthly, so what does it mean to BROUGHT FOURTH in case of Prov 8:24? The Wisdom of God was brought fourth Adam Clake "I was brought forth] ytllwx cholalti, "I was produced as by labouring throes."" The Wisdom of God has been in action and in use from everlasting, this agree with the prophecy of prophet Micah about the Messiah "Whose goings forth are from of old, From EVERLASTING"

Fifthly, even Atheist will agree that every creature needs SPACE and PLACE to occupy and dwell, which leads to my unanswered question by any JWs ever If Jesus is a created being, which comes first Heaven or Jesus?

Lastly, I turn this against JWs Psalm 90:2 says "...Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God", Prov 8:23 says "I have been ESTABLISHED from everlasting." and Micah 5:2 says "Whose goings forth are from of old, From EVERLASTING"

Why did your organization conclude that God is not created by using Psalm 90:2 as support and also concluded that Jesus was created by citing Micah 5:2 in their 'what does Bible really teach booklet pg. 41' when the same word was used in the two verses?

There is quite a bit I can write on it, I may write more later giving more info if you want.


I was bought forth

Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

Proverbs 8:24 is referring to the Word of God:

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

We are also told that the Word is God:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God and the Word of God is two persons as Proverbs 8:22-30 and John 1:1 and many other verses show


Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word of God referred to in Proverbs 8:24 is also God, as the scriptures show,
and verses show that God has always existed, not created.


Psa 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
Again showing the Word is God, and other verses show God was not created.

Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
The Hebrew word for "set up" means anointed as King.

Psa 93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.
The Kings Throne is established.

Proverbs 8:23 and 24 are saying the same thing, the Word of God was set up - bought forth as King.

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
If the LORD created the Word, then that would be a work. The LORD posessed the Word before any works at all. The Word is, along with God, Eternal.

MizJanet:

Buhahaha , But both can be translated " brought forth" ,isnt it ? Thats the point.

That same psalm 90:2 proves you WRONG , " the earth and the world were 'brought forth' " that same exact hebrew word used in proverb 8:24 appears here






*Lols*

And yet again and again you do not know what you are talking about,
the Hebrew for "bought forth" in Proverbs 8 and Psalm 90 are different words with diffrent meanings..

The mocking rc's:

italo:
Abeg make your zing prepare food for Johnw47 too o.

You know say hunger sef dey make person confuse.

Syncan:
Yes o, abeg rich4god prepare for Johnw74 too o, so he wouldn't accuse us of discriminating against him, abeg o, I have not recovered from the last one.

Mocking God:

Syncan:
His name is daddy.

In these verses God is talking specifically about rc's

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

the rcc forbids priests and nuns to marry
the rcc commands abstaining form meats on fridays.