₦airaland Forum

oglalasioux:
In my opinion the traditional African gods are built around the same lies with the Abrahamic gods. My conclusion is that the powers purportedly attributed to anything god is one and the same with the laws of physics. There is no recorded miracle, except the fake ones, that doesn't have scientific explanation.

Almost certainly true - Gods are anthropomorphical personification of the laws of physics.

I understand that when men encountered the laws of physics for the first time they were so awestruck that they concluded it can only be the gods manifesting. But over the years same man manipulated these laws, kind of shifting the goal post in the middle of the game, and still claim they are instructions from the gods. But gods cannot act like that. It's been men all along. Religion is just a cover.

If a faithful account was rendered of Man’s ideas upon Divinity, he would be obliged to acknowledge, that for the most part the word ‘gods’ has been used to express the concealed, remote, unknown causes of the effects he witnessed; that he applies this term when the spring of the natural, the source of known causes, ceases to be visible: as soon as he loses the thread of these causes, or as soon as his mind can no longer follow the chain, he solves the difficulty, terminates his research, by ascribing it to his gods . . . When, therefore, he ascribes to his gods the production of some phenomenon . . . does he, in fact, do any thing more than substitute for the darkness of his own mind, a sound to which he has been accustomed to listen with reverential awe? "

herald9:
Hello sir Johnny... Longest time

hello my brother.. Long time it has been indeed. How are you?

oglalasioux:
Since it's the bible that introduced us to God and all the creation story told by the bible is wrong then same god is wrong too.

This is incorrect - before the bible and christianity and islam we had our own beliefs and religion and God.

i think the swagger of Abrahamism makes jewish myths tastier to whole lot of simple minded shallow african minds.

Owliver:
you should feel free to quote me with that I don't mind. if you still haven't know all living organisms are selfish then you haven't thought about it harder. ask questions if you feel like, I'll answer you instead of subbing me.

if you think the post is faulty throw your opinion. am willing to learn.

Nope you'll only attack the other person's personality, make assumptions about them with your self acclaimed knowledge of psychology when they post opinions that are consonant with yours.

You don't discuss [that is if you know how to] you first need emotional stability, learn to discuss and make your own points without referring to the other's personality because they don't agree with yours.

then i can know if you are worth me engaging.

Ranchhoddas:
Generalizations all over the place. Speak for yourself Oga.

People with such stupendous ego often like to put other people in their own mess, they'd like to assume all is under the same ego problem as they are.

Geofavor:


you're funny o. If I knew it, would I be asking you?

I came across it in one of these general-knowledge tests. This is astronomy, so, I thought you might be excited to expatiate on it.

I'm not an island of knowledge bro, i'm still learning just like you.

KingEbukasBlog:
What's the point of this rigmarole , you openly said you don't support evolution before . So did you do it to protect your belief .

k

Owliver:
l
I understand clearly how he thinks. he thrives on arguing. he always wants to win.

Another assumption, please stop assuming you know things about someone else when you don't...

You understand nothing about me, stop massaging your ego with fantasies.

when someone counters your point, you have choices to either discuss or ignore. . making remarks and assumption about that person makes you look pathetic and it is very demeaning.

MutantMetahuman:
Nice thread


I think every atheist (excluding may be those who were born into it )
Must have gone through at least 2 of these at one point in their journey

I was irreligious for more than 5 years but still believe there is god out of fear cos of the stories I have heard about people who don't believe In god..


Now, I'm over hardcore atheist. outspoken one at that.

Facebook, family, friends, girlfriends. Everyone knows I'm an atheist.
You don't like it, kill yaself

Hahahahahahaha you are a cold ass thug

kilo4sure:
I think you are the one misunderstanding me here, l never said we should name our ignorance God like Newton or Ptolemy did, but rather the discoveries we make in science and even the one made by Laplace help us understand God and his works, l mean God's works may not be magical at all like Ptolemy expected it to be but may all follow the due and logical process in his infinite wisdom, hence the supernatural may be the natural that yet defies logic or simply too complex to fathom for now.
So our many discoveries exalt God rather than rule out God from the picture. The quest for knowledge via science and the understanding of how everything works may eventually teach us the purpose behind life itself and help us understand the mind of God.

Oh very good thoughts but first to assume God there must be a ground and since we have never and i doubt if we can empirically ascertain the actuality of deities - i see no reason we should assume one or attribute the mechanisms of natural manifestation to such assumptions.

Owliver:
Lolz. is it now a bad thing to make personal remarks?

making personal remarks instead of discussing the points of a discussion means you no longer have another point to tender and resort to straw man fallcies and more so digresses.

am only trying to help you. I see you almost every thread. hustling to prove there's no God. and I feel sorry for you.

Second lie - if you have been noticing me like you claim you would have noticed i'm rarely active here of recent neither do i feel the need to engage in long arguments anymore.

You still have no argument sir.

what will be your profit for all this stress? comfort and reassurance that yes you are right haha.

I don't know why you feel threatened by the arguments

there's a better way my friend. stop arguing. and stop fighting God(whoever or whatever it is) you will never win.

still no point - you could have simply pleaded i don't refute your points and i'd understand.

I understand psychology a lot. so take my advice seriously.

Hhmmm a lot of fantasies and pride you live with, i have maintained my cool even with all your personal attacks on my person.

Psychology should teach you how to discuss points objectively and not attack the others personality when you no longer have an argument.

I take ad hominems and straw man as a sign of defeat but unwillingness to concede.

Owliver:
I never intended to argue.

then stop making personal remarks and address the points raised.

am just disappointed in you cos I expected you'd be wiser. I never knew your just a regular man trying hard to argue your way to convince yourself there's no God. lol.

this is another personal remark and another nonsensical assumption. . . I am not convincing myself there is no God, i am totally fine if there is one. I am only refuting the basis for your invocation of the concept of God.

stop reading with emotions.

I guess that gives you variable comfort which of cos you'll have to fill up all when emptiness(doubt and fear) crops in.

again addressing the person and not the points and making assumptions.

stop fighting God. you will never win. nobody has ever win. for how long will you service your fear(generations have gone through this)..... whether you like it or not there's a question the world can't answer and that's the question of God.

time for you to move on. Just an advice.

After all said and done, not one point just still personal remarks and nevee addressing or raising any point to support your position.

Why not remove your emotions from enquiry, discuss objectively and see the world clearer..

when someone disagrees with you, refute their points and not start referring to them and better still make assumptions about them..

that's a very pathetic method brother... i for one will not reply another post with personal remarks and assumption on my person instead of addressing the points

it is because of your offended ego over someone disagreeing with your points that you couldn't read clearer and understand the points made, if not you could have noticed this

You may find places to invoke God(s) but if you can only do that on places
shielded by scientitic ignorance then God will always remain an ever
receding pocket of ignorance.

kilo4sure:
Saying God is responsible for something, does not necessarily mean that he did it by magic, hence l wonder why you feel scientific discoveries eliminate God from the picture. Science could be a way of understanding God afterall via his works.

As usual the misconception keeps coming - the argument i answered was "God of the gap". if you don't know this then god did it.

that was the argument and it has always being shown to be weak and baseless.

if you don't know this, it means you don't and that's all. . . Simply be humble enough to agree you don't and not nickname your ignorance "God".

Ptolemy a greek natural philosopher after observing planetry movement onced said

"As i observe for my own pleasure the to and fro movement of the planets, i no longer stand on the earth with my two feet but on the presence of zeus himself."

Ptolemy didn't know the mechanism behind the planetary motions, he invoked God(zeus) as an explanation.

Centuries later Newton using Keplers work as a foundation solved the problem Ptolemy answered with God and thus Ptolemy's God became irrelevant and unneeded.

Newton again like Ptolemy came to the limits of his knowledge, solar stability and he again put God into the answer.

Leplace came along and solved the problem of stability with his pertubation equation and thus the God newton invoked fell of the equation. when asked where God fit in the picture Leplace answered "i have no need of that hypothesis".

If you use "God" to fill a gap left by your ignorance, this doesn't answer the question but rather postponds it and if you or someone else however somehow gets the actual answer, your initial answer of 'God' falls apart.

that has been the plight of 'God of the gap argument' simply accept ignorance when you are faced with one and don't make your ignorance evidence of your assumptions - it simply does not work.

Owliver:
I have seen your posts many times. it's like you think you can explain everything. all the time.

I have nothing much to say. I know perfectly why you are behaving so. makes me laugh because I cab explain your condition perfectly but I have no such time.

think not yourself wiser, for no man can be wiser than God(i don't know what's it is).

like I said, the fact that we don't know makes it a God(whatever name you want to call it) I call it knowledge unknown.

about the death part am not surprised, humans and pride. very explainable also. I used to think you were smarter. lol

this is in no way a good argument.

Owliver:
true. meant to control people. because naturally men are barbaric. religion breeds an orderly environment so little ones can learn. but it has been abused and turned to jokes.

There are two derived societal means of ensuring order and comformity to societal guide lines.

Politics [Human rule and order ] and religion [Makes humans subject to divine rule]...

So basically religion is still politics with an assumption of divine authority. . . Both has been abused and at many times turns out to be quite sinister and oppressing to the masses.

Humans basically must have to grow past the influence of these two, there are many other intuitive basis we can derive our societal behaviours from independent of these two concepts.

Like Compassion, pity, sympathy, love, family, concern for others. . and these are actually innate values.

if we ignore these values and look towards only external coercion [religion/politics] to ensure ethical behaviours then man is not as intelligent as he thinks himself.

there are many of us who learnt to live beyond the strings of these institutions but there are many who cannot live unless under such leash and to that i believe religion is necessary.

Owliver:
OP I don't believe in religion but I believe in a God. different cultures and religions have defined God as best as they could.

there must be a designer, life can't just come out of nothing. that's no realistic sense to me.

No sir there musn't be because if that is a "Must" then a conscious intelligent God must also require another designer.

now if you are going to ask who made God I'll tell you I don't know. I don't care. why do I need to bother on something beyond my knowledge.

Employ this to the world, instead of assume God or any other superstition over universal causality simply say You don't know.

why employ such special pleadings only for God, we all know honestly you don't know how anything start but just had to assume God but refused to stretch your assumptions of questions regarding God.

isn't that dishonesty?

I'll just live my life a good way and wait for death. am ready any day any time, because that's part of life.

You should just live your life for now, waiting for death is a miserable way to live

maybe when we die we understand better. generations have come, generations will come. same question will bother them.

we know much more than our ancestors did, coming generations will know far more than we do now

the fact that we don't have the capability to comprehend life makes God a fact. A knowledge greater than our knowledge. that is God.

This is a lie, using God as a place holder for ignorance is a pathetic argument. . That we cannot comprehend life means we cannot comprehend life.

Ignorance is evidence of ignorance not god, if that is how you want to play this card then you'd make 'God' totally useless the more we find out and get to know things.

Invoking God cus of ignorance has always turned out as a little whif of discovery murders God at different level chasing it further above to the next level of scientific ignorance.

You may find places to invoke God(s) but if you can only do that on places shielded by scientitic ignorance then God will always remain and ever receding pocket of ignorance.

so just live your life, but as long as you can't comprehend, acknowledge that as God(knowledge unknown).

Then God is no more than human ignorance personified and not an entity - this fits the very notion of imaginary.

oglalasioux:
I voiced my unbelief in gods yesterday on facebook for the first time. By this morning I've been ostracized. It makes me laugh. I've reached a point anything that calls itself god must come out and have a face to face meeting with me first before I believe in it.

You are not alone in the fears you listed. I have such fears too but in those very fears resides the absurdity of it all.

I particularly like the part about good people, no matter how good they are, they must still go to hell for not calling on the name of Jesus. That's the beginning of the joke called religion.

Thanks for the write up.

@bold Called Christian religion...

Religion does not start and end with Abrahamism. . there are far older, better and more profound religions out there.

Religion is not entirely a bad thing like every other human institute - it merely has been abused and misused.

Hypatia of Alexandria once said

"Myth should be taught as myth, fable as fable and mircales as poetic fantasies.
To teach superstition as truth is horrifying, the mind of a child accepts them and only through great pain and perhaps tragedy will he be freed of it."

she was brutalized, raped and her skin frayed before being killed by a Christian mob and parishoners of Cyril...

Cyril is a saint today.

It takes great pain to relieve one's self of the things you have been taught, beaten and coerced to accept as truth all your life.

It was a beautiful journey, illuminating but the way is cold, lonely and many atimes dangerous because people would aggressively attack any idea that contradicts their conventional views.

Leading an unconventional way like irreligiosity or disbelief entirely in deities can be a very long and lonely trek, painful and depressing but once you are at the bank of the stream so much relief, happiness and freedom comes after.

Dispelling these myths and superstitions is not as a result of rebellion or animosity rather should be grounded out of respect for human intellect.

GrizzlyBear start from the beginning of this work

GrizzlyBear:
Yes, I supposed that this was the case, but still, I silently hoped that maybe, there are theists in Nigeria, that have a different reason for opposing evolution, other than it's contradiction to the bible.

Evolution is something anyone with an above average knowledge of biology accepts as true. There is enough evidence that supports it, and it makes far much better sense than creationism, but yet, Nigerians still choose not to accept it or try to understand it, because it contradicts the words of some ancient Jewish book that was passed to their ancestors by white men who took the families and friends of those ancestors as slaves.

Nigerians accept everything else science has said, most of which they don't even ask for prove. Nigerians benefit from science everyday. We utilize various gadgets which were inventions made by scientists. When we are sick, we take drugs, which were made by scientists. We are now very selective about the food we eat because science has helped us recognize the food that are detrimental to our health as well as the ones that are beneficial to our health.
When cosmologists tell us that there will be an eclipse at a certain time in a certain day, you will still see these same Nigerians, outside, waiting for the eclipse to happen, despite not being shown any evidence that this would happen.

But when these same scientists try to explain to us our own origin, in the face of overwhelming evidence, which would help us better understand ourselves and the world around us, we reject it, just because it's in direct opposition with the words of our Bible. It's quite depressing, to be honest.

Such disagreement is based on a dishonest ground because it doesn't come from a critical objective evaluation of the subject but rather just a clutch to protect your own indoctrinated personal beliefs.

I see people here saying [Micro-evolution is true but macro evolution] that is a subtle way of agreeing with evolution but still making some very laughable remarks with Macro and micro.

Macro is made up of Micro bits, so if the micro bits can evolve - certainly accumulation of this micro evolution leads to macro changes.

Saying "micro evolution is true but macro is not" is like saying " water is dropping on this bucket but it can never fill it up"

I do believe such examples are clear shows of cognitive dissonance or laziness or maybe the sad effect that comes with dire need to protect one's belief even if it means employing such dishonesty.

Science is open to doubt and scrutiny, it does not aim at establishing immutable knowledge or claim to be an infallible source, it is a human enterprise that involves systematic and consistent approach through observation and empirical probes and using mathematics and logic as tool to arrive at a truthful approximation.

if you'd hope to challange science and you go on religious ground then you are just wasting your time - because the discipline of science is above 'gut feelings' and 'personal beliefs'

MutantMetahuman:
nope..

I could see sun up there its absolute.. Even if don't I have single drop of faith, sun will still shine..

Exactly - therefore there is no faith here. . . You are very sure of it.

That's why I used panadol. panadol, I have faith it will cure head ache cos I have seen it cure head ache before, but what if used it and still didn't cure the head ache? So i am not absolutely certain that its would work, but I have faith based on what I have seen which made me believe it would work in the first place.

Your tiny bit of doubt on panadol is derived from the fact that it's effectiveness is not consistent and also differs according to distinct anatomy - so there is uncertainty in this regard.

Exercising faith means you have lingering doubts on the actuality of the subject, unsure and uncertain but believe it anyway.

If Jesus didn't perform the miracles that's people think were impossible, I don't think anyone would have believed he is a god. It doesn't mean jesus perform miracles on everybody, but some people believed based in what they have seen.

Do you know some people still believe Chris angel uses some kinda super natural power even when the guy has debunked such

That is the effect of superstition and superstition is a tool fueled by ignorance in the face of awe striking events.

MutantMetahuman:
faith comes when there is proof init?

Nope quite the contrary - Faith is exercised when there are no proofs, faith doesn't require proof.

People won't believe in Jesus if he didn't perform miracles right?
Please give me something to kick start this faith..

You need no proof to exercise faith, if a proof comes up you'd no longer believe something by faith but you would be certain.

So faith simply means believe it without proof whether it is true or not.

I have faith that panadol will cure head ache Cos I have seen it cure head ache before..
Now answer the question.

It leaves the confines of faith when certainty is involved.. you do not have faith that there is a sun, you are sure of it.

GrizzlyBear:
My fellow Nigerian christians and muslims, this is a very simple and important question. Why don't you accept the theory of evolution as true?
I am asking this question because it seems to me like it's only in sub saharan africa that people staunchly reject evolution, maybe because we are deeply religious and evolution directly contradicts creationism(biblical description of the origin of man).

Evolution is a theory backed by an overwhelming body of scientific evidence pointing to it's validity. In fact, it's a widely accepted fact, in all fields of science. There is enough anthropological and archaeological evidence that suggests it's factuality.

When I was a christian, I used to violently reject evolution because it was directly negating the bible's doctrines. Whenever I heard about it, I thought that it definitely had to be a strong tool devised by the devil to prevent the expansion of the kingdom of God. I never cared to read about it, or try to explore it as a subject, because I already believed it was a lie.

I don't know why you reject evolution, and I would really like to. That's why I created this thread. Maybe your reason is similar to the one I had, or maybe you have evidence that disproves and debunks the other evidences used to back evolution. Maybe you have your own unique insight into the origin of mankind, that's different from both creationism and evolution. Or maybe it's something else. Please whatever reason it is, post it here. Maybe you have issues with the theory and you feel it has loop holes, you can post it here, or even frame it as a question. Perhaps you might even use it to convince people like me who accept evolution, and show us that we have been wrong all along.

I believe going by the bolded you already know the answer to the question. .

MutantMetahuman:
Okay my religious people in the house...



I have been an atheist for more than 7 years now after spending a big chunk of me life running from my shadow..


But I'm not close minded to the idea of god.. Please give me one good reason why you think I should go back to believing god.

And please have in mind that you are trying to convince someone that applies or try really hard to apply logic or common knowledge to everything he does. So don't bring the faith mumbo jumbo..
I not gona have faith or believed that swallowing a stone would cure head ache unless the person proves it.

Thanks.

Waiting...... No trolls please.

The bolded says a lot. . . You just need faith and since you are not ready to have that, you are on a wild goose chase.

promise10:
See a fool talking!

Like your moniker goes, no matter how you hate God, it doesn't subtract nor add to his supremacy.

He is God because he is ALL SUPREME and SELF CONTAINED

I don't honestly understand how this is an answer to the OP or even supposed to be a reply.

hopefuLandlord:
Bros, I have certain feeling of conspiracy about this whole thing

How so?

mcprichy:
Johnydon22:
Apocrypha: 2 Esdras Chapter 13
1 And it came to pass after seven days, I dreamed a dream by night:
2 And, lo, there arose a wind from the sea, that it moved all the waves thereof.
3 And I beheld, and, lo, that man waxed strong with the thousands of heaven: and when he turned his countenance to look, all the things trembled that were seen under him.

Revelation 1:8 KJV
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Revelation 1:12-13 KJV
And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; [13] And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

Alpha and Omega, Beginning and Ending can never refer to a Jewish boy who declared he was sent by his dad, these verses has been blindly attached by Christian but it refer to Supreme Being

Now, watch this
Isaiah 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

If Creator is readily and always powerful, why can't this happen now or in last 6000years?

There's difference in Most High and Lord of Hosts, Lord of Hosts refer to Highest of The 7, Most High is Supreme Being and one day, Lord of Hosts and rest of 7 will merge with Most High

In Egypgt, this concept called Ogdoad of Amen
In Fon, Nana and 7
In Yoruba, Olofin Oduduwa and 7
In Roman, Phanes and 7 Titans

Knowing Truth of difference between Most High and The 7 Powers is dangerous, instead to pray for Restoration of Most High with The 7, many human lust to claim The 7 for themselves hence it was concealed till end of days.

More verses from Enoch
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe055.htm

Please note verse 4. And he said unto me: 'All these things which thou hast seen shall serve the dominion of His Anointed that he may be potent and mighty on the earth.

The 'His' refer Lord of Host
Anointed refer Alpha and Omega, Supreme Being


Always remember, we are Clones from Supreme Being hence we share feelings in minute rate just as Most High, love, forsight, aftersight, imagination, mercy are attributes from Most High, we fall sick and rest

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

There's more to this than literal 7 days, what it meant is after trial with 7th Soul of Red, Most High rest and since then never fully wake back.

Some human daily labor that Amen will never wake and people easily support but Amen will rise again and people should start praying for His return.

We have been taught lies about Heaven, the theory that Amen is watching and waiting for Judgment day is false, Amen was wounded since day of creation

Revelation 3:14 These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the formation of God;

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

In kjv, verse 14 read 'creation' of God but what this mean is Formation, there are 8Spirits that compose God, Amen was The First Self Existing part, the Self Exist is Anointing that's Greatest

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Word=Phone=Phanes=Olofin

In Yoruba, Roman and Greek, Phanes is Protogenous and Autogenous, Just google it, it's not my own philosophy

Concept of evil and good began when early human learnt of state of Amen and plan to Usurp instead to Restore, Eshu or Aether or Saturn is Lord of Hosts and Second to Most High who refused all claims to usurp Most High and usurpers stereotyped Eshu as evil for refusing

A boy claim Most High impregnate his mother hence he must inherit his dad but Eshu refuse and the boy said refusing him is same as refusing Most High and concept of Satan rebelling Most High began

These are just another ambigious interpretation of biblical verses, coining out other highly vapid terms and concepts.

raphieMontella:
his negative force or negative side is evil...
No matter how u deny it...for evil to exist it must have come frm the creator...
If u dont know how it adresses the question..den pass thru

Isn't this variance with the idea of an all good, all powerful, all knowing deity presiding over the cosmos?

Reyginus:
Very good. You should be reading a lot about blogging now. Nobody is rewarding you for your intellectual property. As much as I write poetry I don't think I'd ever post anyone here.

You sir have given me a nudge towards the right direction... Lordnicklaus i am hoping we'd start work soon enough

This thread is a total disappointment, when i saw this on my mention [ sirWere ] i was like "wow finally something interesting is about to go down"

I stepped into the thread and saw 6 pages my excitment grew but reading through the pages was the disappointment of the year.

For goodness sake why would they be a 6 page meaningless back and forth repeating the same thing over and over again?

Dalaman please i know you are worth more than 500k so i kindly beg sir that you remove the 500k gamble from the show since naijadeyhia is insisting that is the reason he wouldn't do this.

Please remove the 500k gamble, maybe naijadeyhia doesn't gamble. i too have never gambled all my life.

if he still refuses after you remove the 500k bet then it becomes obvious.

So do this for the people, do it for NL board and do this for yourself too.

Since he promised to pay the expenses of your transport and accomodation bills that is a good deal to me, but please go with other folks and let it be on an open ground.

someone like hahn is in lagos too and he'll specially be there for video documenting of the whole event, so that this type of long unnccessary back and forth doesn't come up after.

Please i am itching to witness this show down, Dalaman please reconsider i beg you!!!.

Naijadeyhia if dalaman reverts to the status quo you are referring to would this go on?

Cc.LoJ

Reyginus:
Exactly. This place doesn't deserve that much originality.

I am looking towards that, once i buy a new laptop i will set up a blog and will delete most of my articles here and move them to the blog

Jameselias:
johnny the song don finish ? Abi wetin dey hapen ??

it is not finished yet bro, it probably will reach up to 50 chapters because there are so many grounds to touch.

Reyginus:
I prefer he takes it out of here to a better and more rewarding place.

Like my own blog right?