₦airaland Forum

thehomer:
Yes.

I stopped replying mentions when i notice they are based upon premises such a person is ignorant of, you shouldn't have bothered.

what people fail to grasp is, if you take the universe and everything to a state of nothingness, that means nothing exists and if nothing exists then there are no laws, not motion, not cause and effect or gravity, thermodynamics because there is nothing.

so if there is no cause and effect law then the universe even universes are fully capable of generating themselves.

secondly 'CAUSE and Effect' also is epileptic in the quantum scale; subatomic particles has been noticed to speed up all by themselves without any external force acting on them, particles pop in and out of existence (quantum fluctuation)

but yet science does not propose nothing, theist only think "nothing" because that which science propose is not "God"

There was always "something".

Exactly and we do not know of events before the Big Bang or even the nature of the universe we live in

if there are certain critical amount of matter in the universe then universe will continue to expand forever.

if there are more matter in the universe then the gravitational effect will be enough to reverse the expansion and thus crunching everything back into a small point.

which if is correct science then thinks the universe is an eternal cycle, expansion,;contraction and expansion.. this big bang then might not be the first; only or last...

We always knew we lived in a world of time, space and matter. Einstein described it better for us.

The Bible is still wrong though. We live in a four dimensional universe.

sure 3spartial dimensions plus time

it's a waste of time teaching one who pull off scientific conjectures they don't even understand just to argue.

urahara:
Lol. .

Johnny is not gnostic o. He is also agnostic.


Johnny and hardmirror , come and see o.

LOL People always misunderstand and ultimately misrepresent the atheist position..

There is one thing i noticed on Nairaland lately there are more threads with "atheist/atheism" on their topics than there are now ones with 'God, religion'..

Thats really curious!!!

lordnicklaus:
Yea, you are right. I have only started a tantrum war. No one brings up a good point, everyone just wants to lead the discussion. Well except Weah96, urahara and some other peeps who debate in a matured way.......

Exactly!!! i'm sorry but i have gone past the stage of engaging in such meaningless mostly egoistic infantilebsquabbles...

Did you notice the difference between this and the Cosmological and Philosophical forum, the difference is the level of minds on them.

Dejideji1:
Really? I have always seen you as one of the most radical Atheists here on NL. But still second to johnydon22 any way.
That guy is the most radical Atheist here on NL and very intelligent too. he must be Gnostic. Call him and HardMirror to view this thread cos i know you are friends.

I am agnostic atheist sir, not radical only outspoken...

lordnicklaus what did i tell you from the on set of this thread, you'll get no reasonable discussion or debate.

this is just another trolling heaven where unrelated epileptic arguments and ad hominems are regurgitated.

Its not about opening the thread like i said earlier, it's about the caliber og people in it..

wiegraf:
I've no problem with most of this, obviously (and well said). I want to highlight something somewhat tangential to this

it's OK to think was your wife the most beautiful woman in the galaxy. it's even cute and useful sef

it's silly to think she's objectively the most beautiful in the galaxy. (to insist so is problematic in some cases, but we can ignore that)

supposing you happen to have a kid with blue eyes, black man as you are?

it's pure delusion and and self conceit to think that you are somehow special. that there are no - have never been and will never be, even - other black, blue eyed children out there. especially if, as opposed to hundreds of millions, there are trillions of other black couples out there

maybe you married a ninja, and because she's always in hijab you think her something special

lol no

the follies above our religious cousins revel in

Hahaha

Dawdy:
The real superstition and magic is to believe that "something came from nothing" defend this theory if you can, we are here to reason logically.

I do not even understand what you are yapping about, do you just like pulling premises out of no where and argue on it?

lordnicklaus:
Well for my first post in this educative thread by my friend johnydon22. I do not think science and religion are anything apart considering that both were birthed at the same time by the same race (Sumerians/Babylonians). In fact science is the foundation of religion i.e astronomy (science) gave birth to astrology (religion). The universe seems to be expanding and we probably do not know if our solar system is the first or there is a solar system before ours. We are beings of third dimension (3d) and we do not know if we are alone or whether beings of 2d or 4d exist somewhere in our vast cosmos.

I agree with you science and superstition are born of the same source, in fact science is advanced superstition that has replaced God(s) with empiricism.

i treated this on my thread Songs of the world

[b] Many would think that superstitions and science are irreconcilable opposites,
rivals in a world mesh of ideas but that i would argue is wrong.

Superstition was a very shouty stage in the evolution of what we now call
science.

Let us bear in mind that while in this age, superstition is consonants with the
ideas of science, it is none the less an elder sibling to the established
discipline of science as they are both children of one parent which is
Philosophy …

_Philosophy is a projection of human enquiry, a leap of the mind into the
unknown trying to resolve the known to merge with the unknowns that may
lurk within, and so Philosophy birthed more of questions that it ever had ever
given an answer.

And this philosophical insolubles gave birth to the path ways of their answers,
approaches employed for their satisfaction and thus superstition was birthed
first as an offshoot of a naturalistic troubling problem and thus has evolved
through the course of human history, science slowly evolved from within,
speculations began to arose more often leading to disagreement and
arguments and the need for substantiation became dire thus empiricism was
spiced into the deductive means and science was born.[/b]

https://www.nairaland.com/3145298/songs-worlds-johnydon22

you may like to check it out

DeSepiero:
Well said. The argument remains inconclusive. Meanwhile, we could argue and debunk the authenticity of a human proof (Bible) of the existence of a God and the origin of all things.

the bible, quran, veda, enuma elish religious codecs are not the proofs whose authenticity needs to be debunked.

these in fact are the claims.

I use these religious texts in my work 'Songs of the world' there are just piece of human enquiry so deserves as much respect.

The only problem is when one tries to make them a literal absolute truth knowing fully well how limited these ancient men were.

KingEbukaNaija:
I don't think there'd ever be a consensus , always an impasse . Wisdom , logic and reason from God will always prevail over foolishness anyway

lordnicklaus is this the peaceful discussion you want to get, first page and invectives are already being used to be followed shortly by trolling.

I opened a thread in the science section 'Cosmological and Philosophical forum' we argued over many things and ever touched the God aspect of it and nobody ever insulted or used harsh words.

it was a very sound and enlightening debate much respect to my brother Dorox.

the point here is, its not about opening the thread it's about the caliber of people in i

DeSepiero:
Both theists and atheists, to some extent are biased and close-minded in their opinions about Gods existence.

The 2nd big question is "what existed before anything else existed and how did it come to existence?"

It's an inconclusive argument always has been..

If one says 'God created the universe' to fill the gap of ignorance on universal causality then God here becomes the subject.

who created God?

if then you say God is 'eternal' in order to save a step and cut the enquiry at that point.

then what was the need in the first place of invoking God for the universe, we could have simply then saved that step and said the 'universe is eternal' and the case it closed.

this is a speculative argument because the premise being dragged is somewhere nobody really knows yet.

thats the plain truth, no one knows and the problem here is the inability for people to agree I don't know rather than aiming to fill that gap of ignorance with 'gut feelings'

KingEtienneSky:
Although one is left to wonder HOW MINDLESS "energy" or NOTHING (Like WTF!!) could have managed to create the universe

One thing i noticed about you all is that you always expect everything to be a plan, to have a goal, to have a reason.

the same way mindless Hydrogen and Mindless Oxygen makes water or hydrogen peroxide when once they by accident come in contact.

it is result, its a result that must happen.

When a mind fuses hydrogen and oxygen together, there will still make water or hydrogen peroxide, so hydrogen and oxygen do not need a mind to produce result, once there is a reaction between the two there must be an outcome.

that is the nature of everything.

..... An insane claim that lumps of LIFELESS, mindless matter jumped into existence FOR NO REASON, via no mechanism,

E=MC² ... matter and energy are relative... energy can become matter and matter can be reduced to energy.. that is the machanism.

so once there is energy matter can be created.

then after billions of years of evolution and expansion, a portion of these lifeless materials randomly and MIRACULOUSLY arranged themselves into living beings with MINDS,

Matter has no light yet the same matter shines as the sun through nuclear fusion, the same lifeless matter is living as you no matter how you think that happened it still remain the same matter you call lifeless is alive as you.

even though this is formally impossible since atoms possess neither life nor mind...

Same way it possessed neither light but soon through gravitational effect collapsed and sparked up nuclear fusion.

that is a result doesn't need to be planned.

it is not impossible because life is a chemistry, you are mostly hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen and carbon [carbon as the building block]

thus four elements are the most abundant elements in the universe along with helium.

so life is a chemistry of the most common elements this universe has, and it took billions of years because it was not a product of a plan, it was just a series of chance trials and errors.

like Johannes Kepler once asked "If carrot, lettuce, cabbage , milk were floating eternally is there a chance there would at some point by accident collide and salad is made"

that is a "Yes"

Now i'll like you to replace the universe with any deity you probably might be thinking made the universe and you are faced with the same problem.

-how a mind just came fro no where (not even reaction)
-how such a complex entity just came out fully functional and active
-how mindless nothing harboured a mind

ifenes:
It is not a crime to be blunt with the truth. Maybe you need to mind your business sometimes. I don't sympathise with silly folks. I come on Nairaland to share opinions not to please people

Alright boss

Never you trust someone who knows so well the mind of god, god's will or what god wants.

i've always noticed it is always in coincide with what they want and their own ideas.

ifenes:
Because your brain is with your pastor

This is totally uncalled for if you ask me, you do not hope to coerce others into agreeing with you.

everybody must not

GlorifiedTunde:
Silly question!

Can a selfish person give his life to redeem men from sin and destruction?

That's what Jesus did for you asking a silly question.

Gave his life? the one he picked up 3 days later... Nope that isn't real sacrifice.

You want to know an example of real selfless sacrifice..

Take a look at the soldiers..

They give their life for you to live knowing fully well they aren't waking up again.

they sacrificed their life and stayed dead !!!

HELL and HEAVEN continue.. (catastrophe in the beginning)....

Sound and light propagate in waves, only that the photons of light do not need a medium, they easily travel in a vacuum, that is why lights from space reaches earth easily and fast enough.

But sound unlike light require a medium to propagate in this case 'Air'.

Space is a vacuum and that is why it is grave silent, there is no medium through which sound can travel out.

If we somehow could hear sounds from space it would not be one so musical, not one so pleasing to the ear.

-the thundering rumbles of the solar flares would be so loud that we'd barely be able to evolve into what we are now as a specie.

-the millions of an amplified explosion that'd would be heard every second from the solar core.

-the cracking whistles of the solar wind wheezing mercilessly across the vastness of the deep.

delayed bangs of supernovas that could shake the earth to it's core if it had a means to travel, as a matter of fact it would be simply too loud to hear.

assuming you observed the big bang, you wouldn't see or hear anything when it happens because there was no light yet then and the 'burst of energy' would have no medium to propagate the sound that should have been produced.

Probably species evolving in such environment would have to do away with organs for hearing and so be deaf to such sounds other means of communications mostly visual could be applied instead.

For once we are glad to be deaf to that cosmic song.

Each and everyone of us is a child of earth made possible by the star that hosts her.

Our history is interwoven with theirs, their births and beginning.

The birth of the worlds

Most of the worlds in the solar system formed not too long or simultaneously with our sun approximately 4.6billion years ago.

A recycle of matter battered by the uncaring grip of gravity - perturbed by a cosmic shockwave of magnanimous means and chaos ensued from whence the result that we could call beautiful emerged, a young star with small siblings entering a cosmic dance.


First there was the great cosmic egg. Inside the egg was chaos, and floating in chaos was Pan Ku, the Undeveloped, the divine Embryo. And Pan Ku burst out of the egg, four times larger than any man today, with a hammer and chisel in his hand with which he fashioned the world. -
The P’an Ku Myths, China [third century]


Just like an acorn seed falls and dies and out of the dead seed springs out life, something wonderful, a new acorn tree. From a dead maize seed comes a new maize with thousands of seeds.

Nature is always a recycling process [Little wonder the Hindu's propose an eternal universe always going through births -end -rebirths, a cycle of existence]

The solar system is one of such recycle as of most other manifestation of matter in this universe.

Our sun is probably a 3rd age star - 3rd generation of stars to form in the universe. the first generation of stars that sparked up after the beginning of the universe were very huge ball of hydrogen gas [hydrogen is a fundamental and predominant element in the universe] the stars were so huge, burning up hydrogen so fast in reckless abandon and after exhausting their hydrogen supply begin to burn helium and heavier elements were born.

So the nature of the elemental composition of the universe became more intricate, after the helium supply is done the stars die in a very violent explosion called supernovae.

scattering their elemental compositions now comprising of heavier elements into the cosmos.

younger generation of stars spring up from the remnants of these stars and thus it goes.

Our sun and the planets were children of such sad and sweet song of cosmic tragedy leading to cosmic reincarnation.

An interstellar cloud, remnants of a star dead long ago. hydrogen, helium, iron, oxygen, carbon ... present, all except for hydrogen were direct products of the initial star that has gone off.

Due to the presence of gold, uranium and other heavy elements found on earth a nearby supernovae has been speculated to be the trigger of causation.

Gold, uranium and other heavy elements aren't direct products of stars during fusion but rather are created when a star dies through supernovae.

The interstellar cloud must have been triggered to collapse under it's own gravity by the shockwave of the nearby supernova casting off some of it's own elemental composition [gold, uranium] into the interstellar elemental soup.

the collapse lead to accretion of matter by gravitational points, as more and more matter are accumulated towards the center it gets denser and hotter until eventually becomes hot and dense enough to start the fusion of hydrogen atoms and a star is born.

A young sun that would hold the fate of a curious specie, a curious blue sibling planet all bound in oneness by fate and gravity to each other.

The remaining interstellar matter would form as a ring around the small hot young sun, accreting more matter as smaller accretion of matter at various points begins.

Hot chunks of matter colliding, stick together and get bigger as the tuff war of uncharted cosmic battle waged on.

The rings of Saturn would best paint a clear picture of this age of the solar system as the matter that lead to the planets were to the sun then as the little ice, dusts and rocks that makes Saturn's ring are to it.

As these small points of interstellar matter accretion danced in very hellish dance around the sun, glowing charred hot balls seeming like a live coal in a dark night, all having their fair share of the elemental compositions of the cosmic soup.

Possibilities that the sun had other siblings of like-wise nature, smaller suns venturing off into the vastness of space forever cut off from their shared origins, probably we might see one of these stars in our night sky so far away that our history could hardly be reconciled.

A small star of the system that was a near miss is Jupiter - A monstrous hoard of hydrogen gas, jupiter could have reached a star phase if it accreted more matter to spark up nuclear fusion in it's core.

It would have been a small sun, gravitationally attached to it's elder sibling making the solar system a double star system, a very common star system configuration in our galaxy.

What a sight that could have been from earth, two suns of differing sizes and colour spectrums, more frequent eclipse, so short nights if at all it comes.

Jupiter is basically a failed star.

The smaller balls of interstellar matter now would solidify though still hot as it gets but taking solid shapes of spherical nature, they'd be dense enough to achieve hydrostatic equilibrium.

their grabs of elemental compositions being a defining factor to the nature of these worlds.

Mecury, venus, earth and mars, small heavy world of mostly rocks probably due to silicon [as earth has that in abundance], iron etc.

Jupiter, saturn and other bigger gas giants hoarding a greedy hydrogen composition.

The worlds have been born, the fate of mankind sealed who in the course of his history look towards the sky from whence his fate was decided.

The cosmic songs began for the young system mostly a bitter song of catastrophe, the solar system at the start of it's history was not a peaceful place - still not is but the events of the past makes the present condition seem like a heaven.

it was a hell at the beginning, chaos ruled as the young worlds danced randomly across smashing into each other, a battle of the worlds, there almost certainly were more planets formed during the onset of the system than we now have, many of them didn't survive the early catastrophe of the young unsettled system.

The asteroid belt might pay homage to these sad events, even afterwards the surviving planets were still battered by severe meteor bombardment.

Smaller chunks of asteroids travelling across space, uncaring and blind colliding into any obstacle.

Hell thrived.

Earth and other planets would have gotten a severe share of these meteor bombardments, mercury lends words to this as craters which are formed at impact from meteors or asteroids are still visible, venus with it's thick sulfur clouds blinds the eyes to the state of it's surface though it is expected to be filled with impact craters.

Earth got it's own severe share, most eroded through the long years by wind and erosion.

many still there to this day - some of which have lakes in them and there are even young recent impact craters.

The craters of earth being washed from the surface by many factors gives earth less of a crater filled look, the moon has no such luxury.

with no atmosphere [no air therefore no wind], no liquid water, there hardly is sufficient factors to erode the impact craters of the moon, lunar volcanoes had filled many but many more took their place.

if you could glance through a telescope and look at the moon, you'd see these sad remnants of a sad batter, impact craters almost at every corner lending a verse to the sad song of chaos that was sung during the early stages of the solar system.

Mars just like earth also has most of it's crater eroded by similar factors, jupiter, saturn, neptune and uranus being balls of gases would remain seeming untouched by meteors as their gaseous nature would produce no impact crater but they surely have gotten their fair share of meteor bombardment if not more being of larger gravitational reach.

the smaller bodies, moons of the solar system; ganymede, io, europa, pheobe even large asteroids all show a generous view of impact craters.

All pointing to a beginning marked as a Hell.

But hell would not rule forever as slowly the system would gain more stability and become less violent till to what we have now.

though not absolutely free of such catastrophe that marked it's early history but is what we can call a little slice of heaven

to be continued...

Electgineer99:
An atom has a core and outside the core an electron occupies an orbital for which the principal quantum number n=4, l=0, m=0 and s=+½ or -½. The atom is likely to be....
A. boron B. sodium C. potassium D. fluorine
.
.
.
That is the question that spurred me to reread quantum numbers. From last year OAU PUTME.

most likely .. C is the answer..

I suggest a visual method of learning here, search for quantum numbers on youtube, the illustrations and visual effects will make it easier to understand

Electgineer99:
Please johnydon22, if you can help me with simpler language so that I will be able to answer another similar question.

It is very complex chemistry/physics that i too don't grasps too well..

The model of a three dimensional space for electron allows electron a three dimensional space which demands three co-ordinates.

n, i, m

n is the principal quantum number that describes the size of the orbital. . n=4 is bigger than n=3 and thus goes.

i[/b] is the angular quantum number that describes the shape of the orbital.. an orbital which the value i= 0 is spherical, i= 1 has a polar shape (two ends pointing at the opposite directions) i=2 has a clover shape (4 ends pointing at opposite directions) and so it goes on and takes on more complex shapes as the angular quantum number increases.

[i]m the magnetic quantum number that describes the orientation of a particular orbital in space.

I can't really figure out a simple way to break this down because it's just too complex...

http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch6/quantum.html

this can help better than i ever can...

Dawdy:
Go ahead and provide it. Just make sure it is not computer generated image.

Have you fill of earth's pictures, first one is a direct picture taken on the first manned apollo mission to the moon, others are close up satellite and probe photos

I have no intent of joining words in an irrelevant squabble with one who still cling to Medieval astrology

-Geocentric system
-Aether
-Universe center earth
-stationary and fixed earth..

and numerous other outdated trashed and shattered medieval scientific bunders

In the 21st century? I am not going to mince words here that will be a total waste of my time, effort and intellectual morsels.

donbenie:
Don't bother,it still crawls at snail speed and to top it all,ONCE the screen goes off your data network disappears until you on the screen again,so no background download for you..I have 2Gb wasting after I could only do 5Mb of download ALL night..#AIRTELONECHANCE

i downloaded 2 films of 700mb last night and this morning too, it took hours though... the network strength is not consistent most times a snail is 10times faster

KingEbukaNaija:
You just shot yourself in the foot . There are more theists than atheists. Actually the population of atheists are picayune - very insignificant compared to the number of theists in the world . Infact there just 7 percent of the population of Europe who atheists and the total population of atheists in the world is just 500 million atheists , non God -believers ! And there are close to 6 billion God-believers in the world .

So using your logic , there are more people seeing God , so there is indeed a God and the less who are the atheists who can't see God are wrong .

Good night bro . Sleep tight

hahahaha please don't add cognitive dissonance to it... seriously i was just talking to myself all along this was what you could understand from it?..

nawa ooo

KingEbukaNaija:
Hebrews 11 : 1

Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

Another word for the bolded is wish for ...

Having faith doesn't make anything true, not even probably. it simply means you believe whether it true or not.

that i have FAITH that there is a unicorn tied in my room doesn't and will never make it true.

I have faith that I'm speaking to a human Johnnydon22 , not a robot

exactly. . Johnydon22 might in fact be a robot just like the antispam bot. . Your faith means you are uncertain but rather think, wish and hope Johnydon22 is in fact human

KingEbukaNaija:
Smh . You dont get it .

1. The fact that something is invisible does not prove it is non-existent.

2. The fact that something is not proved does not mean it is not true.

Hahaha exactly the point

We call that a hypothesis… Once something is unproven it cannot be said to be true neither can it be dismissed as a lie.

but once you knowing fully well such subject is unproven claims it is true then there is need for you to substantiate your claim by proving it.

But you just agreed it is unproven therefore you have no basis to claim it as true...

Just call it a hypothesis that you have shown it to be and i'll totally support

KingEbukaNaija:
I dont see the absence or presence of the red cup as a problem . I just want to know why you think there is a problem .

Objectivity, i once showed you how unreliable personal perception is and even touched collective perception.

I see a cup, every other person can't.

why is that?

Why can't i just pick the cup up and show the world unless maybe that illusion of a cup is in my head.

I dont see your non belief in God as a problem . I just want to see why you think there is no God .

Here now is your final lesson before i sleep.

You say there is a God [equivalent to my cup on the table]

Nobody is seeing the God [cup] almost certainly not even you..

and they simply say "I don't believe you

The least you can do it provide the God or cup, there won't be any room for doubt, all will be sure and certainty is derived.

Asking them to provide proof that you don't have a God is same as me asking you to provide proof there is no cup on that table.

No. the onus is on me to provide proof for my cup not ask the person doubting my claim.

to resort to such tactics shows you simply have no basis to stand on for your claim..

KingEbukaNaija:
What rings a bell is that I couldn't prove or disprove the existence of unicorns . Though I say unicorns don't exist I couldn't prove it for you to be certain that your pet is not a unicorn . The same way atheists can't provide facts that preclude the existence of God to buttress their claim that God does not exist .

Bravo! Bravo!! I see my teachings are sinking in really, i'm really glad..

Unicorn and God(s), they have one thing in common evidently here and it's now very clear!!!

The good part is you did it all

KingEbukaNaija:
Faith is certainty . I have faith that Im talking to a human whose username is Raddie , not a robot

Jesus!!!! i have seen enough

Raddie:
Now I understand your signature!

Hahahaha you did that late

dalaman:
Nature is evidence for nature. There is no God's name or signature in any part of nature.

Words on marble, evidence of a tree is a tree, a tree is not evidence of a tree fairy, simply provide the fairy not show me a tree.

KingEbukaNaija:
I dont see a cup, you see a cup.I wonder why you think there is a problem

Good. now you have an answer to your thread...

KingEbukaNaija:
Please what are your proof that God does not exist



Who proved God does not exist



Or you atheists like to say what ever pops into your mind

hahahahahaha you are now getting the point... I love the way both of us are using the same method to defend both Unicorn and God they must have something in common then.

I hope it rings a bell now

Let me continue to make things simpler for everyone here, let me show how absurd it is to ask someone else for proof for your own unproven claim rather than providing proof as the claimant.

https://pennstateelmscollection.com/images/squarecoffeetable.png

You see this table, i believe by faith that there is a red cup on that table, can someone prove to me that there is no cup on that table?