₦airaland Forum

KingEbukaNaija:
You don't have a car , young man .

Prove it

KingEbukaNaija:
Unicorns have been proven not to exist . Has God been proven not to exist ?

Please what are your proofs that unicorns don't exist?

who proved unicorns doesn't exist?

Or you just like say what ever pops into your mind?

KingEbukaNaija:
Proof definition : evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.

Going by the dictionary as you have requested , is there any evidence for theists to admit that there is no God ? Like the truth in the non existence of God .

I have a live unicorn with pure crystal horn tied to my best post now..

Provide proof that my unicorn doesn't exist..

sonOfLucifer:
Like I noted earlier, you might need to pick up that dictionary again. You provide proof to aver that something exists not the opposite.

What exactly do you want proof for when your God by definition is unprovable? Your God doesn't exist in this world, communicates by mind, performs miracles by grace, and requires faith to be seen?

The proof that God doesn't exist is faith. Faith brings fiction to life, lies to reality, minds to captivity.

Sure thing brother, to believe something by faith means you have no reason [evidence] what so ever to believe it in the first place..

Nobody need ask atheist proof, your faith is proof enough, your lack of proof is proof enough against you.

KingEbukaNaija:
God is everywhere

To make this easier for everyone, lets focus on this..

Since God is everywhere, its very easy for you to observe something that is "everywhere"

so just make it easy for everyone here.

show us

KingEbukaNaija:
Bro , watch me steal your woman in the religion section !!!!!!!!

LOL she's actually my woman in real life not online, well give it a shot.... Fill in for me in the religion section while i fill in for myself outside.

KingEbukaNaija:
Sweet baby , leave john out of this . He is not man enough to have even a bit of you . He's still busy with fighting elusive fights against the believers of a non existent entity . He wont have time to take care of your fine self

LOL

It was a Saturday evening, i had taken a few drinks with her… we stumbled into the hotel room where things blazed up immediately we entered.

Jumping each other immediately, passionate kisses, clothes flying around like there were bombs, heavy breathes sipping out and light moans, an air of untapped lust.

She tore my shirt and gently removed by trousers and boxer, pushed me into the bed and tied my hands to the best post, climbed on top of me.

My feet was already clenching and muscles contracting in blissful anticipation of the impending heaven i was about to receive.

she licked my ears and whispered with a flirty tone that sent tingles down my spine "I am going to make you scream so loud and you'll never forget this day"

I smiled and closed my eyes, she tightened the rope more on the bed post.

Then ran away with my phone and wallet..

I shouted "Jisooooooooooos heeeeeeeeeey ayam dead!!!"

crusadistic:
*smh*
Atheists thinking they are wiser than God.In the first place,Can you atheists put forth any rational premise that a God if He must exists must be merciful or putting it more accurately,"subscribe to your own idea of mercy and love" for Him to deserve your so-called respect.You see,you've just invented an idea of what a God should be based solely on your preconceived notions and feelings.

Not at all, i am only evaluating your God concept based on the features and Characteristics you attribute to it, because so far as we know you are the only person here making claims for God [apparently God can't do it himself]

So showing that i am disgusted by your notion of God going by the Characters you give that your concluded figure does not in any way lean to argue the existence or inexistence of such deity based on such characteristics.

Rather only shows that a person [human or not] who exhibits such a character like the one you claim for God does not deserve anyone's respect.

so as God for you has shown not to be anymore than human invention [you also determine how God should be and behaves] at least invent one that deserves respect or has a reasonable excuse.

Yes! He's merciful and loving,but He's also the Planner,the Wise,the Punisher,The One Who Decrees,....Lord over All! including Satan.Nothing you think you know of wisdom or mercy compares to His and nothing you think you know of punishment compares to His,and whatever good that exists stems from him.
These are fundamental axioms that define him just the same way he is One.

You are the one that said here that "God" is directly responsible for everything because everything must be according to his consent.

Here you are claiming that only good stems from him now distancing yourself from your previous assertion.

Going by your assertion that "everything" happens because of God's consent that means that Good and bad are all his works and projections.

so while laying out this profound profession of piety remember to also add "what ever evil exists stems from him, after all he also supposedly created the devil too.

so you see, God is also the architect of evil as well, the special pleading is understood none the less.

Decentpee:
[i][/i] For me, shouting when praying; it's absurd...
We all know God is Almighty, he knows everything: both the beginning and the end, even know what on our mind b4 we speak. So why the shout? Infact, see, prayer is not meant to be heard but to be answered!!!

Shouting in prayer is absurd because God already knows even before you pray you say then praying at all is absurd since God already knows.

So whats the point in reminding God what he already knows unless you think it's forgetful and uncaring?

crusadistic:
Was it God who raped them ;

You are the person who just told us it happened by God's consent, if God didn't consent to it, it won't happen.

so the reason why rape happen is because God consented, if God simply did not consent it won't happen - going by what you told us unless you are trying to change your stance that "everything that happens do not happen because of God's consent" it's a tough Job.

so by proxy you are implying it's all God's string plays, therefore the people involved are just pawns in God's chess..

so who really is the devil..

God to you consents and watches as these perpetrators carry out these horrifying acts, if i see someone raping another and i am able to stop him, i will stop him.

But not only do you assert a God whose 'consent' you tell us is directly responsible for these horrifying things that happen but it also seats and watches without doing anything..

If you are going to invent a God, at least invent one that deserve respect.

blueAgent:
You fit the word clown.whats the objectivity?are you saying that God can't decide were to place the Devil?

Its a very cool story

Do you honestly believe that if there is a heaven and a hell, you'd be very happy in heaven knowing fully well billions are burning in a literal fire just next door, probably with a loved one among them.

Will you genuinely enjoy such a place?

will you genuinely be happy ?

I for one cannot be, i cannot even watch someone burn in real-life talk more of finding eternal bliss while billions burn... That itself will be hell for me.

Have you ever wondered the outright absurdity proposed in such greedy clamor for another life.

Eternal life, forever, an infinite life.

What can you do with such endless life, paradox of infinity shows in an infinite existence it only will be a repetitive process.

So if there is such a thing as an unending life waiting for you after here, it almost certainly is one of constant repetition.

is that the type of life people greedily chase?

sounds like the bleakest, most boring idea of existence i know. . .Heaven is for uncaring, egoistic, greedy hypocrites

crusadistic:
Yes of course.

Which means that for every single child that is raped, every single soul that perish for hunger are all direct results of God's plan and will.

so therefore when a rapist say "It was the devil's handiwork" which devil is he referring to here..

since his actions as you are proposing have direct consent from God wish, God then is the "devil" at work here.

Isn't this what you are implying... All the terrible things in these planets are all part of God's will

crusadistic:
whether the drug cures atheists or even satanist,or no cure happens at all,it all by the permission of God.

Ok so you are saying everything that happens always are with the full consent of God?

Just seat back and watch a mesh of interpretations and sandwiches of conjectures.

ever811:
how God allow this type of animals to continue livinh is still a mystery..

Why not ask God and then come back and tell us his/her/it's answer

blueAgent:
Clown. God gave the devil the earth to be incharge of, before the devil's rebellion. so it is logical for God to still send him back to the earth.

lol you seem to be in love with the word "clown" .. you argue with emotions and not objectivity.

anyway cool story

HELL and HEAVEN (Cosmos and chaos)


Both chaos and order are dully represented in the cosmos, unimaginable catastrophe resulting to deep beauty and evolving pattern.

The universe is like a time capsule, our method of ocular perception is based on light and so we see the universe and every other thing in a timeline of light ranging from the unnoticeable milliseconds to the gigantic light years.

Light is the propagator of the process..

[We'll in the coming submissions learn about the true nature of light]

Light is the fastest thing known by man in nature, when light from a light source hits an object the photons are reflected back and when these reflected photons hit the retina, an image is formed.

Like a mirror, the image you are seeing on a mirror are are photons reflected from the object to the surface of the mirror.

Our eyes are photoreceptors, they are photosensitivity and everything concerning our ocular perceptibility depends on light little wonder when we are exposed to deep darkness our eyes are no more useful than our hairs in that condition.

man has been wowed by the thriving universe he was received to when he first glimpsed the skies through a telescope, our ocular perception was enhanced greatly.

We saw five worlds [Mecury, venus, mars, jupiter and saturn] in orbit, accompanying worlds [moons] trailing some of them as cubs following their parents.

Then we escaped the limiting bounds of the earth, we escaped her jealous grip, looked beyond the restless atmosphere that greatly blurred our visions of the heaven.

Our quest to escape started from the Mount Wilson telescope built on top of the mountain wilson so as to reduce the annoying perturbation of our atmospheric condition, from whence the young astronomer Edwin Hubble first determined that the Andromeda nebula [M31] was actually a distinct galaxy of it's own.

Here is an example of the atmospheric effect of our view from earth, when you are looking at the stars at night they twinkle and mostly seems as they change colours so rapidly.

This is due to the earth's atmosphere perturbing lights from these stars that have travelled trillions of km across the vastness of dark space to reach us.

Its like looking at a coin under a very clear but flowing water, the image will be distorted by the water movements.

Subsequently man escaped the atmosphere and we took our observatories above the earth, huge ocular devices floating around the earth peering deeply into the deep universe and our universe became clearer.

We have telescopes like Hubble telescope, Kepler and others above, both colour spectral telescopes and radio telescopes, infrared telescopes making our images brighter and more detailed.

We saw a scary but beautiful cosmos, a cosmos of light buttered in darkness, large monstrous stars littering every corner from the dead brown dwarfs almost blind to us to the over gigantic blue giants, red giants, huge burning gases of hydrogen.

A more collection of these interstellar buddies by gravity leads to formation of galaxies.

But since our "eye sight" is based on light, it gets more complicated since light itself is not infinite.

Light travels at a finite speed of approximately 300,000,000km per second, since light is not infinite the images it conveys then must also follow suit in the timeline of it's journey to our photoreceptors or ocular machines...

_Light from the sun takes 8minutes to reach us, at any given point you see sun rays everywhere, or ones directly hitting you and causing the warm feel or merciless scotching sensation, this light of the sun was not from the sun at exactly that point in time but actually journeyed from the sun 8minutes ago.

so the lights of the sun we see is that of the sun 8minutes ago, if the sun disappeared we still won't notice for 8minutes, we'd still be seeing the sun in the sky until the 8minutes elapses.

Also in a very miniscule level, when you are looking at the person next to you or the screen of your phone as you are reading this, you are not really seeing the person or your phone as there are at that particular time but actually how there were a massive count of milliseconds ago. .. [ ^{-10 ...} ]..

So we are subjected to waiting for light to bring the information through time for us to perceive, we are at every given point in time when we look out of our window, our rooms or everything surrounding us, we are in fact looking back in time.

So to speak this was the situation of things as we peered into the vast cosmos, distances so great that it exceeds our count conventional units we had to count them in coincide with the speed of light to avoid the unnecessary bothers of too many zeros in one value.

distant galaxies, stars, nebulae, supernovae beamed down on us as we peered through the cosmos, remnants of catastrophic events, seeming calm but yet unimaginable violent interactions thrived.

it takes light longer time to travel such mind bugling distance, it takes light years in such herculean stellar quest.

So when ever you look at the points of light in the sky you are looking greatly back in time from few years back to millions of years.

Like the M31 galaxy (nearest large galaxy to the milky way) also visible in our night sky is 2.1million light years away, so when you look at it, you are seeing it as it were millions of years ago not as it is now.

Most of the stars you see at night are probably dead, some exploding in supernovae, some in slow but equally beautiful way but since light from such events have not reached us we still see the timeline of light available to us due to the uncaring painful distance.

Humans looked into the cosmos, Heaven and hell fully represented before us, chaos and order in full concord.

The word "cosmos" was coined as a connotation of an ordered universe, a universe thought to be precisely complex but yet very ordered.

The medieval thoughts of planetary orbits were perfect geometrical order, a perfect circle.

Johannes Kepler, a bright and a very influential contributor to our scientific development was fascinated by the 'thought' perfectly aligned and geometrical manifestation of the cosmos.

After studying in the protestant seminary, left the track of priesthood and rather strived for a natural priesthood of curiosity, ventured into science which was first introduced to him in his vocational training at the seminary.

Kepler was awed by the planetary motions, more so because there were thought to be perfect geometrical order.

He remarked in the euphoria of his astonishment

"Geometry existed before the Creation. It is co-eternal with the mind of God . . . Geometry provided God with a model for the Creation . . . Geometry is God Himself."

He abandoned the conventional projection of Godhood, God became more to Kepler than just a person illustration of divine wrath and authority, more than a figure of reverential awe demanding piety.

God became geometrical perfection to Kepler, an ordered cosmos that was machinated by carefully perfected geometrical manifestation.

But the observations kept bothering Kepler as they contradicted his views of a perfectly geometrical orbit.

Kepler was in love with geometry, but he also was a man of deep honesty and curiosity.

The more datas were given from astronomical chats hewn from various sources of means, Kepler saw an err in his deductions, his perfectly circular orbits were fallen apart, geometry eventually was turning out not to be the guiding hands of the universe.

As Carl Saga put it " Kepler was shaken at being compelled to abandon a circular orbit and to question his faith in the Divine Geometer. Having cleared the stable of astronomy of circles and spirals, he was left, he said, with ‘only a single cartful of dung,’ a stretched-out circle something ]like an oval"

The orbits turned out to be imperfect and were not perfect circles but rather elliptical.

Though reluctant and unsure, Kepler slowly agreed to the dictates of nature, he became less a student of geometry and accepted the facts nature taught.

The perfect order Kepler saw shattered, it was an imperfect orbit dictated by the reach of gravity he however came to realize.

Kepler became a perfect example of what the discipline of science is and should be, a self correcting enterprise, a humbling discipline, willing to look at the universe with open mind and accept what ever it teaches us than maintain what we 'feel' should be.

He once commented on this painful Journey of intellectual realization, he said

: ‘The truth of nature, which I had rejected and chased away, returned by stealth through the back door, disguising itself to be accepted . . . Ah, what a foolish bird I have been!

HEAVEN and HELL to be continued....

Dawdy:
How did you know that what you jus stated are facts? Theory upon theory! I 've told you times without number to kindly show me the real video of the earth footage with the help of the so called thousands of satellites orbiting the earth, before you tell us what is in light years away. I'm tired of GCI photos.

If a picture of the earth is provided i doubt if you can be able to distinguish it from the CGI so is there really any need when you will still end up holding on to what you want and feel should be?

SirWere:
The dictionary definition for Mind is

"the element of a person that enables
them to be aware of the world and their
experiences, to think, and to feel; the faculty
of consciousness and thought".....and that's it.


The Brain on the other word is "the control center of the CNS of an animal, located in the skull and responsible for perception, cognition, attention, memory, emotion and action.


The Brain is a definite thing, an organ with mass and fixed space. The Brain has been misunderstood over time (Aristotle has been said to think the Brain only acts as a Blood cooler) and it's only recently that it was considered as the main organ.... The cornerstone organ becoming the main deal, if you wish.

Now going from above the mind is the faculty of thought and consciousness and going from your definition of what the brain is it controls perception, cognition, attention, memory, emotion and action.

and these works of the brain in totality sums up to both thought and consciousness, going from this you are explicitly identifying the brain as the "Source of the mind" and even though the brain is an organ and so part of the body.

The body now is not mere after all, going from this the body ceases to be just a "mere container" for the mind but the source.

-Now as you have attributed things as perception, cognition and all to the brain, that is entirely not true. The brain is part of the process and not the only source of the result.

If there are no pain receptors, you cannot feel pain even when you have a brain, if there are no taste buds you cannot taste even with a fully functional brain, no eyes no eye sight.

so you see the brain is only a co-ordinator of the process and not the source, independently it cannot do anything just like every other part cannot function without others.

So consciousness is the totality of the whole neurological composition of an organism not limited to the brain to the entirety of the organsim, every bit and part of him part of the process.

The Mind, on the other hand, is a vague thing, immaterial yet affecting the world as we know it; the mind has no known weight, hell, there is not even an accepted definition of it yet....

The mind is strange to us, immaterial just like light is immaterial yet produced by material.

We do not fully yet understand how the neurological cosmos works but it is not a distinct value from it's sources.

Neurological study have understood and seen how 'memories' are made in the human brain [one can also assert memory as part of the mind] by tracking mRNA in brain cells...

if memory is also part of the mind, doesn't this imply we are seeing pictures of the mind here by tracking mRNA?

is the picture of a television independent of the millions of pixels that makes it up? so too is the 'mind' independent of these tiny 'pixels' that projects it?

We are yet to fully understand everything about us and the part of us most troubling is the mind.

The Mind exists because of the Brain, yet that very analogy seems false....

The body [including the brain] always shows to be the source and projector of the mind, shown evidently by the fact that the limits of the body (perceptions) limits the mind.

You can only imagine Obama in your mind now because you have seen Obama before, a blind man cannot place an image of what obama looks like in his mind...

Why??

Because we have AI bots, PS2 controllers, Microcontrollers, chess players and others that are said to be "intelligent"... How can something be intelligent without a mind? What is intelligence??

Here is a difference, Intelligence is a tiny arena of an organism possible because of it'£ perceptibility and ability to analyse information.

In the context of these Bots, there are basically programmed with a crude imitation of the brain [C.P.U] in a computer, to be able to process and analyze information, an algorithm, to derive result.

The mind in order words exceeds intelligence, the intrinsic randomness of the biological machination derives broad horizons of manifestations, imaginations, perceptibility, cognition, dream, emotion.

Bots can only simulate in order words we are just vaguely trying to project the basic sense of our neurological ability in mechanical simulations.

so something can be basically intelligent in a simple level of procession but that is not limited to mind.

Asking how can something be intelligent without mind is like asking how something can flying without wings

We claim consciousness is restricted to humans alone......yet how do we know?? How can we say that Dogs aren't conscious? Apparently they see things, things we don't see?? How do you know what happens in anybody's head except our own? How do we even know what happens in our head??

The bolded is totally untrue i wonder who ever told you that or claimed that. . . Every living being with perceptibility is conscious.

Consciousness in a simple definition is ability or totality of awareness, consciousness is not a human thing.

There is only levels of consciousness ranging from basic perceptibility to intrinsic perceptibility like one humans have... Like i pointed out limit to perceptibility limits the mind also.

A plant is simply aware, it is aware of light in it's surrounding- Photoreceptive... so in a basic sense plants are conscious.

A dogs consciousness exceeds that of a plant, a dog feels, a dog even makes decisions.

the same emotions that ruled you also is prevalent and evidential in dogs and other complex animals examples.

-love
-anger
-sadness
-fear

those are projections of the mind, a neurological chemistry... So a dog or any other animal out there is conscious as you are.

It only differs in degrees as the perceptive ability or level of central neurological capability [Brain power]

The Mind suffers many diseases, biases, psychological damage yet the brain does not.

How do you think these comes about, these are all results of the chemistry going on in the brain.

E.G: Love is a mind thing but this is as a result of dopamine in the brain, anger is adrenaline.

So is this really the mind suffering or the body projecting it's anomalies ?

Were we to get Hitler's brain and Mother Teresa's brain on the same table, one will not know the difference.....

Yet hilters eyes is not Mother Terasa's, legs not the same, DNA differs... we are each of us the same in a literal basic sense but different at a tiny miniscule level that also affects our macro-state.

The Mind is vague, a whispery shadow in our brains. For if we open the brain, we see nothing but mush and maddening twisting neural pathways....

Here a few questions are begged.

-Is that you see nothing?

or

-you did not see what you expect?

-Is that which you expect to see independent of that which you actually do see when you open up the brain?

And yet....

From this pile of mush, arises the mind....

I'm sorry, I really don't know how to explain it yet... Perhaps LoJ can help me out here.

And yet it falls back to can there be a "MIND" without perceptibility, consciousness, generally the body?

From all above the "Body" ended up not being a mere container but became the actual seat of beam projector of the mind.

We still have many things to learn

JMAN05:
The principles still guide xtens. however, homosexuality is condemned in the "NT" also. 1cor 6:9

So you are still under the principles of the law but not the law, that doesn't even makes sense since the principles of the law is a product of the law.

If the law stipulates what is right and what is wrong and then you nullify the law that means 'the right and wrong' of the law is nullified.

So it's either the christians are under the law and follow the law to the later [avoid cherrypick]

or they are not which means both the law and it's principles are null and void.

You cannot take a bit of the two, that's like eating your cake and having it again...

If you condemn homosexuality by the law [Leviticus] which in essence is the foundation of the verse in [Corinthians ] then you are following the law therefore under the law and probably will need guns there are many gays to murder.

If you say you are no longer under the law then you have no basis to condemn the act since the law against it no longer holds.

hahn:
A miracle is not when you pray for one person and the person gets healed. It is when you pray and no one falls ill ever again

Sarcasm

JMAN05:
true xtens are no longer under the law.

Good now since the law was against homosexuality but now as you are no longer it, the law is now irrelevant in this regard.

doesn't this also implies that the position of the law on homosexuality is then irrelevant since the law does not hold sway any more.

doesn't this then mean its ok for a Christian to be gay since they are no longer bound by the law?

hahn:
Actually, Christians are more concerned with greed, eating pork, eating prawns/lobsters and other seafood, adultery/fornication, lying etc. Muslims are more devout. A Muslim will blow himself up for Mohammed but if you ask a Christian to do the same he will tell you, "god just blessed me with this house. I am sure he wants me to live in it".

Christians are more reasonable when it comes to that, they just had to make up their conjectures to back it up like

"we are no longer under the law"

but somehow they are still under tithe which was part of the law and other parts of the laws they agree with..

It's double standard and hypocrisy... they do not really believe what they think they believe.

the whips of secularism whipped Christianity into moderation..

crusadistic:
Homosexuality is an aberration of nature that indirectly constitute a bane of human existence.Just like smuggling and like crimes,they don't have to directly harm someone for it to be treated as an incongrous element in the proper functioning of mankind.

I disagree with you here, There is no such thing as an aberration in nature, nature is almost certainly uncharted.

there is no one way things should happen in nature, it can happen anyway and anyhow.

Are you the one that decides what should be regarded natural and what is not?

Matter is lightless and lifeless yet same matter is living as you and same matter burns and gives light as the sun.

Nature happens anyway and every way , Just because you can't fly doesn't mean Flying is abnormal or consonant with nature.

There is no such a thing as One human nature, it goes everywhere and anyway..

Yours is not a benchmark to determining what is normal in nature and what is not, that's egoistic

OP the bible explicitly condemns homosexuality not only that commands death as a penalty..

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed
an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

The muslim retar_d who murdered 50 at a gay club in the united states actually obeyed the bible better.

I have always noticed Muslims obey the Abrahamic deity and it's charges than Christians ...

Christians find the charges of the Old testament yahweh very disturbing and always avoid them

SirWere:
I'm not a philosopher abeg......

Really; I'm currently typing with phone and I can't type much.

You don't really need to type too much, you only need to simply define what you think mind is.

and then tender how you think "Mind' comes about

Dawdy:
see this guy! All you have been sharing, aren't they speculations based on calculations proved by animation? Which of them is fact?

That you are a carbon based life four main elemental composition:

-Hydrogen
-oxygen
-carbon
-nitrogen

That you live in planet earth, a tiny blue organic dust floating in a vast deep and dark space trapped in the chains of an average small star having a cosmic dance in between the orion's arm of the galaxy.

A gigantic monster of organic worlds and suns all in a cosmic dance of unparalleld chaos and resulting harmony.

and one out of billion other galactic monsters, a universe filled with so much stars and planets that we yet cant quantity their number.

And you are but a mere miniscule blink in the cosmic play, an existence of a millisecond, sadly irrelevant in the gigantic cosmic duration but beautiful and as quickly as a blink comes it goes.

A child of nature, a child of earth...

These are the facts

SirWere:
We are products of our minds.
Our bodies are merely the containers of which our mind, the "soul" if you will, exists.

So what is the source of this Mind?

Is the mind indepedent of the mere bodies?

define mind

nobilis:
And OP, I have a question.

Why is it that all the passages that talk about homosexuality always refer to the men?
Is there no homosexuality among the women?

If u understand why I'm asking you this question, then we won't discuss this further.

Hahahaha they love lesbian porn

nobilis:
Make proper researches before spewing trash.

No african tradition forbids homosexuality.

Of all the tribes and ethnicities in Africa, none forbade homosexuality.
The very first time that homosexuality was viewed as a sin in Africa was when the colonial masters came and imposed their laws on Africans.
Before that, there was no forbidding of homosexuality.

It is an abomination in the Igbo tradition, there is no written record of rule of laws in the Igbo tradition but lets go with what is passed down orally and so to speak the Igbo tradition (one that i know well) forbade homosexuality was taken to be abnormal, so was an abomination (aru).

I think such offenses as abominations incurred severe penalties

You cannot point at an example in our history that gives explicit examples of homosexual relationships.

I agree everyone should be free to do what ever they want with their body, but you do not have to distort historical or should i say traditional facts to add weights to your views.