₦airaland Forum

Aaaaawwh.. I loved that man

...

Gggg102:
I think butterflyleo is right. most atheist threads created nowadays follow the same pattern.
when topic is created(especially the ones calling on theists for an argument) the first people to comment are atheists and they only mock the belief of the theist. every topic is reduced to mockery on the first page. no theist show up. the purpose of the thread is defeated.

this thread would have made an interesting argument but it won't because the same thing has happened here.

the section is becoming boring.

The quality of threads and arguments here have drastically diminished. Most people here take these things personal and we end up having a charade of personal banters and insults

This will be interesting. Let me read and bear my own mind

HardMirror:
john i set out on nairaland to reason with people, to share views, but over time i realize these set of people are nothing but scum! Lets not drag this issue. I wish you the best. I am sure of one thing anyway, this thread wld end up with idiotic replies as usual. All the best once again

There is a lot of direct antagonism on this board. People take these things way too personal in my opinion.

LOL

HardMirror:
how did that go with anas abi na anus your friend? You cant reason with idiots.

I hate to play a clear antagonism because of religious argument. (I used to years ago but now i do not really think it's necessary) if someone always hits below the bar and i think he/she is an idiot i simply ignore.

Anas on the other hand has always been too serious with her religious beliefs, she once told me it was her mission (Given by God) to convert me. She probably have abandoned this.

I understand how serious she takes her beliefs and therefore understand that overwhelming burst of emotion direct antagonism of her beliefs always awakes in her and due to our friendship, my mental health and healthy practice argument i tend to avoid this.

Other lots however that i feel are simply idioti_c (there are few who have earned this distinction here) i simply ignore them. I have been on this board long enough to pay attention to idiotic trolls.

on the other, religious people who happen to want to argue or discuss normally i am always more than happy to oblige. There are few of these lot like dorox, very intelligent and sound fellow who argues objectively, disagrees without insults and always argues based on the presented premise of argument.

Emusan:
Let me point out a misconception here!
People haven't grabbed the attribute of God Omni-science so well.

God knows what will happen tomorrow is different from God has designed what will happen tomorrow.

The latter means man is still like a ROBOT

How man will live his life from start to finish wasn't designed by God but God knows how man will run it from start to finish, God only created man with individual ability to live life from start to finish.

So the misconception arises when we substitute our inbuilt drive that makes us who we are for a Robotic view (destiny or predetermination)

I'll shield more light later

Predetermination though happened on exceptional cases if God wants to intervene

1. I understand the concept of foreknowledge and predetermination.

the post was based on the latter and not the former.

There is no misconception only the one you invented by pulling out foreknowledge as an intended premise of the thread which in fact is not the subject the thread is based on.

So if you do not know the difference between foreknowledge and predetermination, i do.

So please stop the strawman, if you want to address the post based on the premise it presents go ahead and do so. But employing a different premise that in no way mentioned in the post is absurd.

I hope it is clear now.

The premise of this post is predetermination (God's will) as believed by many people not foreknowledge.

And the thread was more like a question.

My question then is, which exactly is it?

Which calls for very simple answer like picking the one you think apply not pulling out strawman from heaven knows where.

bennyann:
I decided to sneak into this section after a short while and behold you're still here with your "canny wisdom".

Missed you too. We have all been away far too long.

I admire you, I mean how you carry yourself on this forum I must confess. If you get anybody like you, your Christian version make I know I beg.

There is still a way you can get such version. Turn me into one

Your signature though, which people do you want them to get sense in JESUS name? Like say you don get sense finish

At least make people wey never get at all get small na

Love you sha.

Same here

CAPSLOCKED:

IN ORDER TO REMAIN RELIGIOUS, ONE MUST WORK EXTREMELY HARD TO BE AS GULLIBLE, UNINTELLIGENT, DISHONEST, AND CLOSE-MINDED AS POSSIBLE.

THE MOMENT YOU OPEN UP YOUR MIND AND ALLOW SENSE ENTER, MY BROTHER, RELIGION BECOMES WHAT IT TRULY IS.

A JOKE.

I try to avoid making remarks such as this because it is an oversimplification to me.

tintingz:
ok.

You figured it out on time

budaatum:
I too find atheists annoying! Instead of getting on with more valuable use of their time, they allow ignorant pricks to occupy their time with senseless arguments they've had many times over!

I mean, when last did we have a thread like this with intelligent conversation without some religious nuthead derailing it.

Atheists need to evolve to resist the temptation of Satan by ignoring the pricks and let their "sense" do the talking, I pray!

Not everyone deserves a reply, not every argument has a point. But the atheists here engage everything and anyone even when you could vividly see that this right here is a nuttjob.

People get energy and time to oblige trolls.

budaatum:
I did that, "churchiously lead them in a beautiful prayer" .

Two years ago I caught a bug that damaged my spinal cord and left me in a wheelchair and admitted to hospital and ma brought members of her church prayer group to visit in the open ward I was in.

I lay there thinking, "when these people are done buda, you know they will rain down prayers on your head so you get healed!" I was like, "I'm not having that!"

So when they were about to leave, I quickly jumped in and said, "let us pray".

"We are grateful for what we have", I said. "May we continue to have in abundance. Amen". They too said "amen" and left.

Some of them concluded that I was arrogant, I later heard, and some even lost hope that I would ever walk again. You could imagine their faces when I was thanking them in Church one Sunday for their love and concern during my trying times.

Prayer they want, prayer they shall get.

Innit?

darkchild64:
I sent u something,did u see it

I'm trying to log on to my Yahoo mail. Fuccck it.

Try Agbaeze1@gmail.com

darkchild64:
I feel the same way,the fact that I can say "in Jesus name" and it means absolutely nothing to me says it all ..

It's that simple to me. There was a time I fell into a bit of a fix after losing a lot of money from my business.

my girl friend is a Christian, a Catholic.

She could not do anything that is substantial enough to rejuvenate the issue, she felt like prayer was a way she could help.

To me prayer was pointless but I knew to her it was her sincerest way of demonstrating just how in support and help she could afford.

She knew I am an atheist and I know she is a catholic.

She'd wake up 3am to pray, wakes me and sometimes held my head while saying the prayer.

I always wake up whenever she wakes me up, I even wake her up myself and present my head for holding each time, either kneeling or lying on the bed as long as she is holding it, she is ok.

I did not do becauase I believed in what she was doing, I did because it was important to her and it didn't take anything away from me.

Things got better eventually, I'd say it was through my hard work but she always insisted her prayers played a vital role.

I do not argue because sometimes some fights are unnecessary and nonsensical to pick

HardMirror:
keep assuming. Now i begin to appreciate dalaman's approach to religious matters. Rule number one: know you are dealing with dishonest id!ots

I was referring to that particular kind of approach not dishonest arguments in general.

tintingz:
I have HOPE in surviving, my health, I have hope in food I eat, I have hope in the sun that shines daily, I have hope in my family. These are more reasonable thing to rely on than believing in some imaginary hope.

The basic question should be.

Hope as regards what?

The word "hopeless" can be meaningless if it is not addressing a particular or any subject of hope

superhumanist:
Trust me. Many of those that avoid commenting are people who are so disgusted by atheism that they don't want to talk.

This assumption is not necessarily true. I get emails from these non-commenting ghost readers. Most just have questions ..

That reminds me, someone sent me an email recently but Yahoo have refused to log my account in. They have refused to send me activation key to my phone.

Any ideas?

darkchild64:
In Nigerian universities some lecturers demand a student to pray before lectures,now as am atheist(who can pray) if a lecturer asks u to pray,would u tell the person u are an atheist before the class,or would u just mumble the words out like u are singing the national anthem without much concentration on the meaning,many atheists have found themselves in this situation

I don't see how praying nullfies the fact that I am an atheist or the life-damning importance of not letting others know I'm an atheist.

I've found myself in such situations, to be totally honest I don't have a problem. I see prayer as a wish and I don't stop people from wishing me good even though I know wishes are just as true as shadows in place of substance.

To avoid the unnecessary hostility of arguing with the said lecturer given the circumstance, place at hand, I'd more than churchiously lead them in a beautiful prayer up

sKeetz:
Its impossible to understand the things of the spirit with a carnal mind. You need the help. Holy Spirit to understand these things.

I'd like to assume answers won't fall into this category

Martinez19:
What kind of statement is this? Rationality RIP.

Hahahahaha

The concept of predetermination, destiny (God's will) nullifies the whole idea of freewill but unsurprisingly they are both used interchangeably by people who believe mostly in both.

Predetermination suggests that everything has already been mapped out and set up by God. What you will do tomorrow has already been determined by God, what will happen? What you will eat, who you will meet.

But freewill entails that these factors that falls within the purview of choice are not determined yet, it is up to you to make these choices.

But can these two concepts be used together?

It is logically impossible cus it will only create a paradox.

If it is already determined that you will eat beans tomorrow (and you can't escape this determination) then there really wasn't any choice in the first place since you can't do otherwise.

But if the concept of freewill holds true then it annihilates the necessity of predetermination or in other words the idea of everything being God's will.

My question then is, which exactly is it?

Do we have freewill or is everything already predetermined?

Both can't hold true.

azraeljaheel:
But you know if there's hell somewhere truly like they painted it, souls there still have freewill Kos they don't wana be there... They don't want what they are given... They want something else... Hence freewill still exist....

Well it's going to be an interesting concept either way

TheLoser:
If you wanted to do Something really Selfless, Humanitarian or philanthropic as a your Contribution to Humanity what would it be, especially in these parts of the world

I don't understand this.

Why do you need special suggestions from just agnostics and atheists?

superhumanist:
Johnny! Johnny! You don start again! Always being reluctant to blame religion.

What my friend did is called fatalism........religious fatalism to be precise.

Hahahahaha Oga calm down na I'm not trying to say his beliefs were not to be blamed

I'm pretty sure I have not suggested his beliefs were innocent.

I just pointed out a Nihilist would have similar reaction or at least close one

A nihilist would see that as random and meaningless.

Therefore sadness is meaningless and pointless.

See?

superhumanist:
hmmm.

As for me, I cannot try that. Maybe it is my experience. I have seen too many mad people- so much that I cannot risk testing them.

One example- I was driving home with a work colleague, and we drove past a fallen truck that killed people. I told my friend that it is a sad way to die. The fucking nigga replied "there is no need to be sad. It is god's will. They died at the right time"! That was the last time the nigga entered my car.


Nonsense

Well a Nihilist would also react just as your friend did

frank317:
Lol... U wanna exchange banter like kids... I ain't got that time...

People like u are the real reason God does not exist. Imagine the creator sending this kind fellow to tell the world about him... Is ur God schizophrenic?

Just ignore. In no time they will stop quoting you

superhumanist:
For frank317 to understand where I am coming from.


You see, I call myself a humanist and not an atheist because, humanists tend to agree on at least 70% with each other on politics and religion.

Atheists on the other hand, have nothing in common (except disbelief in God).

I have been with both atheists and humanists abroad. Can you imagine that atheists lost a debate on a religious topic because they couldnt get their act together?


Johnydon22 said something that annoyed me on another thread. He was reluctant to blame religion for violence or wars....or sha something.

If you know my story, I have almost beaten an innocent child to death because I thought he was a witch. So I am very vocal about the danger of religion

I understand though but I think you may have misunderstood that argument on the other thread too

superhumanist:
Sorry, I did not see this reply before.

Clearly, I was generalising. Of course, not every christian is a religious nutjob. However, I am addressing the aggregate. In totality, are christians more likely to be hostile or friendly when you tell them that you are an atheist?

The answer is "hostile", if you live in a religious country. Simple and short. If we use America to judge, the answer is too clear.



I still wonder why you dont want to consider nairaland christians as a good sample for Nigerian christians. I cant see how it would be different in real life. At least, people are more honest online with anonymity. It is even better than real life.........

I had no problem with your approximation until you extended your quantification towards the christians in my own circle dubbing my personal experience with Christians around me as either a lie or delusion.

- Its a hasty generalization
- False generalization

The only thing i wanted you to understand here is that personal experiences are not benchmarks to approximate a general overview.

I recall that i did not make an argument on Christian not being hostile towards people due to their atheism, i only explained my own experience which you dismissed as either a lie or a delusion since it does not coincide with yours or your aggregation of the average christian reaction towards atheism.

I only hope your flaws on this argument are apparent now

superhumanist:
Hmmm.........

Lets see....Enugu. Well, my time working there, nobody actually disturbed me. I lived in both GRA's in Enugu town (both new and old GRA). It was a quiet area and I was a quiet foreigner there. I could see the Ferris wheel in the shoprite from where i stayed in old GRA.

The short of it is that I can say much about Enugu. Did not do much in Enugu

ok then.

I am hoping you are learning a thing or two about quantifying a vast majority or an entirety with your little sphere as a benchmark.

Martinez19:
Johnydon22 and superhumanist, make una settle and agree to disagree.

There really isn't anything to settle. I have no problem with Superhumanist. arguments are healthy (if it is someone like butterfly who i do not really have any problem with i just happen to think is a moro_n, i wouldn't even reply)

- One person insists his personal experience is exactly a benchmark to measure others
- the other disagrees suggesting that there are more factors than contributes to people's reactions, it is not just as linear as the former suggests.

It is open to everyone else to read, understand and judge.

superhumanist:
I have personal beef with the guy.

Bringing your personal beefs into an argument - that is the other end of objectivity. Now i see the issue.

funny enough, i have none with you.

Still, nothing about what he said really matters. If someone truly hates you, will your attitude and personality change much?

People don't hate others by default.

Take an example of daddy freeze that is independent and does not take nonsense. Can you see how many pastors have come for his head?

Is there a causality?

Is there an antagonizing or aggressive verbal approach in his arguments?

We all know that is a Yes

You got to do better than this