₦airaland Forum

hahn:
You do realise that even after the comment you quoted, bubu still didn't realize I was referring to his god in an analogy. I'm still waiting for his reply to my last question though

Actually, King Ebuka has already made his solid point, which your analogy doesn't refute in any way. If there's anyone here being thick headed and I'd.iotic, its you and your friends. His point, which you actually conceeded to(thus indirectly renouncing your atheism), was that AS FAR AS THE PAINTING EXISTS, A CREATOR FOR THE SAID PAINTING EXISTS, BE IT YOUR UNCLE, OR WHOMEVER(I assume you and your friends are atheists.)

You didn't even realize that you and King had already logically agreed on the common premise of the fact that a painter for the painting clearly exists as far as the painting exists. Lol.
You, my friend, agreed to the existence of a creator.

Take a look at what you said:

hahn:
Of course. Someone painted it and someone put it up there.
But does me saying it's my uncle that did it, despite the fact that I and no one in my family have ever seen my uncle in person, serve as provof that my uncle actually did it?

These hastily said bolded words imply the direct opposite of your atheistic beliefs(I assume you're an atheist). In other words, you have simply stated here that you believe in a creator. (Assuming you're honest and you stick to your own analogy).

As a result, King replied you..

KingEbukasBlog:
God created the universe . The fact that the universe is there is proof that he did it and He does not need to do it again to prove anything you . He's a great designer and created that masterpiece
You cant prove otherwise

I'm sure he thought he had ended the argument with this reply. He thought you coherent and intelligent enough to realize that the above reply was exactly what you had agreed to. He will be disappointed when he comes back to see you and your friends spouting nonsense again.

So you agreed to the existence of a creator by your very own analogy, that makes you not an atheist. Who the creator is(which uncle) is another issue. But for this argument, we have all agreed to his existence. I expect a thank you for all the time I used up to teach you and your foolish friends the implications of your very statements.

Teempakguy:
no you wouldn't . . . you're an adult. she wasn't. if we are to actually ask this in the light of the actual event, it would go more like this,

"you are a six year old kid, you have been warned to not eat the fruit, then someone else comes with a superior reasoning. that proves that it is okay to eat the fruit. meanwhile, you have only being warned once. and the warning came from another human being who claimed God told him so. would you eat the fruit?"

This is not in light of the actual event, as you seem to have deliberately chosen to misrepresent the account given in the bible.

Adam and Eve weren't six year olds. The Serpent didn't come with any form of superior reasoning, neither did he prove anything, he only came with lies, and deception. Eve knew God, and the voice of God always came down in the cool of the day to have fellowship with them. It wasn't just Adam that warned her, God must have too.

A test came up, and Eve chose to be deceived by the serpent. I do not know what I will choose in that situation. But the good news is that this issue is irrelevant, as while the first Adam failed, a second Adam has come, superior to the first, and he has ended any events of any fall forever, having passed his own test. I am born after that second Adam. So I'm the very aura of invincibility, because of his sacrifice.

RomanZeus:
You are Eve. You have been warned not to eat from
the tree of knowledge. would you heed the warning or nah?

If this question is asked in light of the actual event, then it wouldn't make sense, as eve, like me, would heed the warning and not eat the fruit. she heeded the warning, until she was deceived by the false words of the serpent. In this case, I will heed the warning. Simply because I trust God.

sonOfLucifer:
I dare God to exist.
I dare God to stop using mumus to represent Him.
I dare God to take my life tonight.





This is a very silly exercise.

It's actually quite silly then, a lost man daring the almighty in his dark fervor.

abduljabbar4:
Even though im a Muslim, i think the op won this argument. But take for example, prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) gave us signs of end time and many other things that were not existing during his time and now we are seeing it and many other things. Both the christians and the op are only wasting their time. None of you can provide a clear evidence of whether God exists or not. Its all about belief

No body needs to provide any sort of evidence of whether God exists, because its encoded in our consciousness that he exists. it is also encoded in us that he is the one who created what we see around us. the creator is proof of the creation. simple. I now firmly believe it is a useless endeavor to go around trying to prove God's existence.

Let us focus on other issues, like exposing the flaws and illogic idiosyncrasies of irrational beliefs instead of chasing our tails on the obvious issues of Gods existence.

Anas09:
I thought we were here to talk abt hope, love and what again? How come pastor Christ took over the centre stage?
Back to base now.

Pastor Chris is quite a popular figure. If people talk about you, you're probably great.

dondemex:
his demons are bigger than him , anyway we all have our own demons

I don't have any demons(whether you're speaking figuratively or not). If you wanna get rid of your "demons, I can give you some good advice.

vooks:
Wassup my Negro,
Am well,just exhauste from a long day.
I think you should not go

Why shouldn't he go? You afraid he'll finally see truth and leave your sinking ship?

AllNaijaBlogger:
Where is Joshthefirst?

I find this funny behaviour very common among these cult-churchgoers. When questioned thoroughly about the activities, they deny, and twist words. When put in a tight corner, they run away.

smh. May God save us from deceitful people.

I've only been unavailable. And I don't give much ear to pathetic critics like you. Keep criticizing, you'll keep watching us succeeding even more, preaching the gospel around the world, moving upwards and forwards.

AllNaijaBlogger:
Good question.

I don't insult men of God.

Hey now. So is Pastor Chris is a man of God or a cult leader then? I don't think he can be both.

AllNaijaBlogger:
Good question.

I don't insult men of God. I was complaining about how long the wedding service is in pastor Chris's church. I went for a wedding there and the service was about 2 hours and 30 minutes in duration because there were 3 different preachers talking about marriage.

I complained to my friend at his house (he is a baptist) in the midst of his friends. One of his friends got angry and started shouting that I should not insult pastor Chris or his church.


I also have two cousins who are slaves to pastor Chris. Back in the day, they didnt miss his program on the television. I also have a friend in the USA who helps assist Pastor Chris whenever he is over there- this my friend becomes a frantic sheep whenever Pastor chris is around.


I used to be a baptist by the way. But now, I worship at a small non-denominational church that does a lot of charity. My pastor is a humble person.

Not missing a man's TV program means you're a slave huh? But if I love the big bang theory or game of thrones and I don't miss any episode there's nothing wrong there. But loving and watching words of life from a seasoned man of God is quite wrong. Slavery in fact. Nonsense.

So what should your friend in the US do when Pastor comes around? He should stop his vital assistance and let things go wrong?

None of the reasons you've given prove that Christ Embassy is a cult or a hell house.

But I'm probably a cultist now because I defend the church.


Sit back in your small church(no offense at all to your church) and criticize. Pastor Chris and Christ Embassy are preaching the gospel around the world, penetrating nations with the good news. Continue in your criticism.

AllNaijaBlogger:
God forbid.

Then your opinion is ignorant and irrelevant.

AllNaijaBlogger:
No. A cult will hurt you if you insult their leader. These people worship pastor Chris like a God.


They use well dressed youths to entice people to their church.

Have you been beaten up or harassed in any way after insulting Pastor Chris?

AllNaijaBlogger:
That cult? Sorry, but that church is a cult. Enter at your own peril.

Have you been a member before?

dalaman:
Will the be able to heal an amputee and restore his amputated limbs back?

Take an amputee there and see. Not one who is filled with doubt like you. One who believes God will heal him.

You see, God only heals those who have faith in his power. If you're in Canada, go to the healing school by pastor Chris Oyakhilome. You'll see real healing there

dalaman:
Give me a demonstration of the super natural please.

Go to any healing service by a healing minister

musKeeto:
Not in Nigeria, yet. Got a job here. Should be home in a few months.

Christ Embassy is cool, more modern. Seems to be the rave amongst the young and wealthy.

Lol. It turns people young and wealthy. The words change people.

musKeeto:
Not in Nigeria, yet. Got a job here. Should be home in a few months.

Christ Embassy is cool, more modern. Seems to be the rave amongst the young and wealthy.

What do you this of Pastor Chris?

Promise me you'll visit the Church and ask questions Muskeeto...If you're looking for truth, I can assure you you'll find it there. At least just go there for me.

If you can't go there. Try to Listen to Pastor Chris online. Hear what he has to say on particular issues and questions.

I'm praying for you man.

macof:
So you agree that Jehova is simply the Greek Aphrodite and Babylonian Ishtar? And all those things portraying Jehova as a Personal God should be discouraged

Jehova is the God of all things. There is no other before him. And yes, he is a personal God and Father to his children on earth. And he'll come as a Judge and Ruler over all the earth very soon.

The earth is filled with truth. The earth is filled with the knowledge of Jehova as the eaters cover the sea. His gospel had penetrated every region of ignorance. so don't act confused.

macof:
Of course you can't argue with that cus it beats anything you can possibly throw as a rebuttal


If only you can show the imprints of Jehova in Nature. .. making us know that it's Jehova and not allah, Brahma, Olodumare that is responsible for our existence

I don't need to show you anything. If you wanna know the nature of the one responsible for your existence, take a look at nature itself. Creation still sings his praises and his mighty hand.

macof:
Is Jehova the personification of Love? that's what I asked

And Yes, I said. he is. He is also the ultimate warrior, the ultimate provider. the invincible ruler of the ages. the Origin of all things.

musKeeto:
How far? Already posted my views as sonoflucifer.

I dey. So you're in Nigeria now?

What do you think of Christ Embassy?

dalaman:
That is just a baseless claim. Let me show you why it is baseless claim:

Brahma is the only creator, whether or not you think that statement is an empty rhetoric or not.

I know Brahma. And he is the only creator of the universe. Pure creator, no one else but him. you cannot know the creator without knowing Brahma. Brahma is the Hindu God.

I'm not going to argue with you on the existence of God. sorry. You already know God exists.

If you want a basis for knowing the way to God, you'll need a demonstration of the supernatural. But I doubt if that'll help you.

davien:
And therein lies the reason I said you seek a vague goal for one to give you, where you could easily shift the goalpost..
But having that in mind that it would be easy for you to try to shift frames here I specifically gave that example so I could then ask you what purposefully harnesses such a process for the various reactions(combustion reactions, nuclear reactions, etc) that we observe in nature to be a direct result of the collisions from random or chaotic atoms/molecules?

To the bolded, Reactions, occurring in definite systems, and yielding directed results, are systematic and predictable. That is my point. And I say that is the bedrock of the scientific method. If nature were unpredictable and random, and pregnant with an infinite subset of possibilities, how could we conduct definite research? and how would our research prove systematic and stable physical systems? How are there definite laws guiding systems in a random nature then? and how can we say a random universe such as ours can evolve stable organisms and cycles that are sustainable in definite environments?

davien: Need i remind you that the sun utilizes it's own fuel(hydrogen and helium) to form higher elements, which arises from the chaotic bombardment of hydrogen atoms together(fusion)...
This is a red herring in which you assume that a living system or observer has to utilize the potential energy of a body for it to be useful,this is fallacious in the sense that a body with potential energy would still lose the energy contained to its surroundings regardless of being utilized by any living system.
An example is the earth that loses its heat of formation through radioactive decay and the result are stable daughter products of once chaotic radioactive isotopes.
Still the question remains,that aren't there an infinite measure of chance or odds that go against the exact molecules and atoms that make up me(davien) in the exact same configuration and yet I exist, this is the common error you make in claiming improbability from randomness when you don't have a measure of what isn't permitted by chance in the first place,nor what counts as "chance"(again, leaving room for goalpost shifting)

Yes. Yet you exist. Your question only makes a case for me. I have proffered a logical measure already of what isn't permitted by chance. Stability and the systematic coordination that we observe all the time is not permitted by chance. Stability and purposeful and systematic coordination requires the right environments, etc.

It is you who shifts goalposts by trying to claim that chance has infinite probabilities and systematics can be achieved in random systems while contradicting yourself in light of presiding laws and thresholds for the so called " random infinities" you suspect for the production of order. Law and order cannot exist side by side with infinite colliding systems.

emrain:
all of the above terms are nothing but illusions....

Nawa ooo.


Abeg Muskeeto come tell us your own views na.
Long time btw.

dalaman:
Another empty rhetoric.

So what do you want me to say? Lol.
God is love, whether or not you think that statement is an empty rhetoric or not.

I know God. And he is love. Pure Love. you cannot know love without knowing God.

macof:
So Jehova is the personification of Love? Joshthefirst that true?

Yes. It's true. God is love.

macof:
No! GOD has not been revealing itself... we don't see imprints of Allah or Jehova in Nature. We see the manifestations of Energy not the work of God

No

I can't argue with you on this basis sorry. It's because I believe you're simply in denial. I will never argue God's existence with anyone. Never again if I have before.

finofaya:
You also asked if he would be bothered and went ahead to answer in the negative. What does "bother" mean to you?

You havent addressed the OP so far. Thanks for your concern about my salvation tho. Pray for me?

I meant bother as in to be annoyed or irritated. I'll pray for you.

macof:
But why do Christians like you, threaten non Christians especially atheists of the horror God will do if they continue with disbelief? Will a God that doesn't care if you believe or not bother punishing you for your disbelief?

Actually it's your type that make god seem like he is threatened by our disbelief...we only speak out what we read from your utterances about God

My reply above to finofaya answers your questions.

finofaya:
You do realise that it is theists who think that God is threatened by disbelief. That's why they discourage apostacy. Atheists simply don't think that there is God.

The OP is about why God (assuming there is one) has designed us to be unable to know him or her other than by faith.

Your post paints the picture of a confused God. If he works with only those who believe, shouldn't he leave unbelievers alone, to their devices? And if he is not bothered by disbelief, why does he not work with unbelievers? Also, how can a God not care whether one believes that he exists, but then care about whether one behaves like he exists?

I think a God that does not care if people know him is not a personal God and cannot care about any other thing that people do. He is irrelevant.

Don't be hasty. I never said God doesn't care. I said God is not threatened by anyone or anything.
Disbelief is idiocy and the height of foolishness and self-delusion(like you reading only what the words you want to see in my post, the words that make you think you're justified in your foolish unbelief).

Anyone can know God. He has been revealing himself through the ages.

..since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them. For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
Romans 1:19-20 HCSB
http://bible.com/72/rom.1.19-20.HCSB

The only reason we beg you and try to convince you to believe in Jesus Christ is because God cares about you, and we care too. But we know that if you do not accept salvation, you'll be gone. God is a just God.


I believe this answers most of the questions directed at me.

Please try and be logical in your perceptions of God next time, or at least try and be logical in your futile attempts to throw accusations at him to justify your unbelief.

finofaya:
I think obtaining proof of God is more than an issue of shedding a physical body. It borders on the more fundamental issue of how we understand things. Can you think of a way by which we can (attempt to) know things other than the method we currently use?

Finofaya, God doesn't owe you anything. I wonder what image of God you have in your head. Cursing, or refusing to believe in his existence doesn't move or change him in any way. He still remains God, and he works with those who believe. Simple.

Imagine you're God Almighty who created all things and transcends all, would you be bothered if some people refused to believe in you? I don't think so. You'd do things your way and have mercy on whomever you choose to have mercy on, and kill whomever you choose to kill. Because you're God. Some Idio.ts think God is threatened by their disbelief. Quite foolish if you ask me.