₦airaland Forum

South African pipe hitters in Pemba, Mozambique

Lurker4Long:
More pics...

Sweet!!

South African Special Forces in Mozambique

Ghana lines up L-39NG jet acquisition


Ghana's defence minster sought parliamentary approval for the procurement of six L-39NG aircraft from the Czech company Aero Vodochody on 2 August.

Ghana's defence minster sought parliamentary approval for the procurement of six L-39NG aircraft from the Czech company Aero Vodochody on 2 August.

The parliament's order paper for that day showed the deal is worth EUR111 million (USD132 million) and covers associated products and services and a ground-based training system as well as the six aircraft.

Odunayaw:
I said ECOWAS member states FGS! Yes, the big boys in the neighborhood may have nothing to see there but how about countries like Burkina Faso, CIV even Ghana!

I added Rwanda because I'm making reference specifically because of middleweights and featherweights in our own neighborhood.
And what operations was successful? Afisma? It failed woefully!

Concerning each member states deployments to Moz. My indices is in the spectrum of Logistics.

Senegal and Ghana have similar economies to Botswana.

Afisma did not fail, Tchad was the main fighting force on the ground, along with France.

Well, there is nothing ECOWAS can learn from this deployment of SADC in Mozambique.

ECOWAS has carried out far more complex deployments, sometimes 2 of such deployments in tandem.

Odunayaw:
Well, nothing new to see. How was our deployment to Mali? (AFISMA)

Anyway, SADC deployment will only get better. And in case you have forgotten my original post


That's the crux. Let's agree to disagree

How are ECOWAS countries not pulling their right weight when compared to SADC, especially seeing the evidence i have provided?

Odunayaw:
I'm tired of going back and forth on this man. When countries of the caliber of Rwanda, Botswana, Zimbabwe (No disrespect to them) in ECOWAS can deploy as I have seen (by pictures of course) then we'd be better for it

Rwanda is not in SADC. It is an East-African nation.


Mozambique - South-Africa, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Lesotho and Angola.

Gambia - Nigeria, Ghana, Senegal, Ivory Coast, Togo.

Simultaneously West-African Troops were also in Mali - Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Chad, Benin, Senegal, Burkina Faso, Liberia, Niger, Togo all deployed there.

How you can say ECOWAS has something to learn from SADC when ECOWAS successfully conducted two large operations at the same thing is amazing.

I want you to tell us how you came by this conclusion?

It makes no sense to me that's why i'm asking.

Odunayaw:
What countries enforced the blockade. From that answer you'd see where I'm coming from

Top South African defence analyst Helmoed Heitman told defenceWeb the “sluggish response” by both the regional bloc and South Africa was “embarrassing, even allowing for the delay caused by Mozambique not timeously signing the Status of Forces agreement”.


By comparison, the Rwandan response was decisive, with reports from the east African country having it combined Mozambican/Rwandan forces retook villages and other positions in Cabo Delgado from Ansar al-Sunna soon after arriving in the east African country. Earlier this week, Rwandan soldiers apparently killed around 70 insurgents during clashes around Palma ahead of efforts to retake Mocimboa da Praia.


Heitman maintains the SADC force will not be strong enough


Shortcomings in reconnaissance capability (a pair of hand-launched UAVs), air mobility (two utility helicopters and zero relevance for transport aircraft) and air support (two attack and two armed rotorcraft) add up to a too small, too lightly armed force with inadequate reconnaissance, mobility and air support, he warns.

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/featured/top-analyst-expresses-doubts-about-competency-of-sadc-mozambique-force/



Again i ask, what can ECOWAS really learn from SADC?

I see nothing here of note to learn, none at all.

Odunayaw:
What countries enforced the blockade. From that answer you'd see where I'm coming from

Nigeria sent NNS Centenary, we also sent Alpha jets, C-130's and A-109 helicopters.

Senegal sent most of the land armour, supported by Ghanaian and Ivorian armour.

Remember West-African nations also had troops in Mali, with Chad, Senegal, Benin, Nigeria, Ivory Coast and Burkina Faso contributing.

Not including the operations of MNJTF collectively and Nigeria, Chad , Niger and Cameroun were conducting individually in their various countries.


So when we look at the relative stability of SADC countries over high risk in ECOWAS countries, who really is punching above their weight?

So again I ask, what can ECOWAS learn from this SADC deployment in Mozambique.

I fail to see it, please enlighten me.

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COMMISSIONING CEREMONY OF MARITIME PATROL ASSETS; GUN BOATS, HIGH-TECH INTERCEPTORS, SURVEILLANCE DRONES, ETC. DONATED TO THE NIGERIAN NAVY BY AITEO GLOBAL GROUP

Odunayaw:
To pull their own weight. That's something you don't see in our subregion

This is not correct at all.

What did West-African nations do in Gambia then?

There was a naval, air and land blockade.

Your comment is simply not correct.

Odunayaw:
I'm really impressed with how member countries are pulling their own weight. ECOWAS states should learn a thing or two

What thing or two can ECOWAS nations really learn from this deployment, because I don't see it.

IAC-1 Vikrant on her way for sea trials today:

Rwandan Ratels in Mozambique

Lurker4Long:
And my fears re logistics/sustainment by road are realised. RIP to the soldier.

This is sad.

Lurker4Long:
Yes, like the "soldier being robbed" fake story you gleefully posted here.

Anyway, with this I happily take back my skeptical comment. A mate at CSIR confirms it's one of their projects for SF. Apparently they've reinforced the suspension to handle the recoil.

Well, if you remember correctly, I went back and edited that post to the correct caption at the time.

You can look it up to confirm.

Again whatever works well for a country's military is up to top echelon to decide, not anyone here browsing on Nairaland.com

We can only speculate and discuss decisions. We are not policy makers.

Rwandan soldiers and police patrol areas in Cabo Delgado province, Mozambique

Coolliot:
Nah wah ooo, you can see through objects? Xrays vision, Mr superman

Always have it at the back of your mind that I don't usually post comments for posting sake.

I have proof to back it up.

Lurker4Long:
Err...no. Try again.
For reference, the only ZSU-23-2 guns in SANDF service are used thus:

Bro, when I post comments here, always have it at the back of your mind that I have proof to support my post.

bidexiii:
I disagree with the bolded, why would the US not allow them to grow to such height. I don't believe in all these super powers, if China can do it then any country can also do it.
Who believe that after the breakup of the Soviet Union, Russia would still be a powerful nation.

China has always been a super power. Remember they are one of the 5 permanent UN security council members.

1 of 5 victorious from world war 2.

Same as Russia.

SANDF technical armed with a ZSU-23-2 gun heading to Mozambique

shadowprimezero:
Lots of the components, especially the optics have long been swapped out for domestically manufactured ones and also I don't think there's a single defence article in the world with 100% of the components from the country of origin. This isn't a very valid argument.

Guy leave matter for Mattias!!!

We are discussing African content.

Lurker4Long:
1) We're sending 1500 pax, which is a reinforced battalion battle group with Mambas, Casspirs, a heavy weapons company, 2 Rooivalk, 3 Oryx, and possibly a troop of Rooikats. Define light;

This is not bad.

shadowprimezero:
Bro, that's literally what's happening right now. Turkey is taking the drone market with traditional US customers such as Morocco, Ukraine, Tunisia and NATO Poland, with many other countries currently in talks.

The US for sure didn't envision that when they refused to sell Turkey Predator drones 15 years ago. Thats how we ended up here. You think the US is happy with the TB-2's combat performance and current market potential, especially given the semi- arms embargo on Turkey?

Bro, the T-B2 is even more American than Turkish.

shadowprimezero:
Bro, that's literally what's happening right now. Turkey is taking the drone market with traditional US customers such as Morocco, Ukraine, Tunisia and NATO Poland, with many other countries currently in talks.

The US for sure didn't envision that when they refused to sell Turkey Predator drones 15 years ago. Thats how we ended up here. You think the US is happy with the TB-2's combat performance and current market potential, especially given the semi- arms embargo on Turkey?

The US really doesn't sell drones man.

China and Israel are the world's largest drone exporters, then followed by Turkey.

Secondly there's nothing like Turkish technology, they depend very heavily on imports from Europe, America & Canada, South-Korea, South-Africa and Israel.

Lurker4Long:
Based on the Technical Assessment, no need for fighter jets.
My own quibbles are:
1) the number of transport helicopters and UAVs is inadequate. Cabo Delgado province is too vast for the numbers provided;

2) I fear they've underestimated the logistics requirements. 3x C130 (2 SAAF & 1 BDF) and 1 Angolan il-76 may not be enough. As it is, SAS Drakensberg is being readied to ship some equipment and supplies to Pemba port.

I think the South-African deployment is rather light, especially taking into account ratio to population and size of the SANDF.

If Cabo Delgado is vast, then there is a requirement for Fighter jets. Helicopters fill in a niche role, but if you taken into account some of the experiences in Nigeria you'll see that a fast jet is an important asset to have.

Is SADC not planning to carry out Air Interdiction in Mozambique?

SADC lift capacity may not be enough, but I think it is adequate for this early stage of operations. Besides where would additional lift capacity come from?

Lurker4Long:
This one flares up at regular intervals; certainly as long as I've been lurking here.

Nigeria recently realised almost 2 billion dollars for weapons purchase with the air force getting nearly 1 billion dollars.

Although the description in the supplementary budget is vague, the Air Force did indicate purchase of new aircrafts as a requirement.

What that is, is left for speculation, but with the need for day & night attack helicopters, defence enthusiasts can only but speculate.

shadowprimezero:
Far from it. I still think Turkey is the future. They strike the sweet spot between cost, quality, and tech. From armored vehicles, missile technology, EW capabilities, naval shipbuilding and of course drones. They'd be an ideal defence partner especially on joint projects. They of course still have a long way to go.

I like your optimism, but I don't see Turkey as a major defence player.

They don't have the tech unlike the Chinese to go it alone, and more importantly the US would not allow Turkey grow to a point where they become a threat to US own exports.

shadowprimezero:
Turkey struggled to export to the Philippines due to export regulations on the US made engine and also failed to export to Pakistan for the above reason. TAI is currently in talks to shift engine production to Ukraine for the T-129 ATAK II. If the rumors are true, NAF has a lot of hoops to jump through to get those birds.

So you now finally agree Turkey is not a reliable defence partner.

bidexiii:
I for happy ..

That's the rumor bro.

There are some very wild reports suggesting Nigerian Air Force is getting 6 x units of T-129 Attack Helicopter.