₦airaland Forum

Smartie gurl: Can any one of you give me clue of why a Woman and a Man were created in the first place?

Most ppl don't share that judeo-Christian foundation with you here. So not a common axiom/base

[quote author=Mr_Anony]I am not quite so sure I get exactly what you mean still....but I'll respond according to what I think you are saying (feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood your argument)

First of all the Christian theist doesn't hold that there was an "absolute void" in the beginning but that in the beginning God exists and has always existed eternally. He didn't grow into being God or learn how to create a universe. He is ultimate and He sparked the universe into life. There is nothing before God i.e. no pre-existing laws or whatever have you, He just made all things in His infinite intelligence.

I am guessing that your argument is along the line of "if the universe is designed, how come it is possible seeing that God couldn't possibly have precedents?" If this is your argument, then my reply is: that we deduce a designer because we observe a complex working order to the universe. The intelligence of the designer as long as He is the ultimate being can not possibly have been learned.

Please correct me if I have missed the point of your post and I will respond accordingly (probably much later than soon as I have a few things to attend to and I have to run off for now)[/quote]You got it right with God and the void pre existing. But missed it all from your second paragraph. Take the example of the design of a car, several physical laws are involved such as motion, gravity etc. The engineers find ways to achieve their aim of developing the car they want as well as obey those rules.

Therefore these laws determine design and orderly complexity. However since a void lacking even these principles (and God) existed in the beginning, therefore design is not the handiwork of God

Sexual identity is basically a social construct, heterosexual sex and homosexual sex are still sex, justifiable and appealing to the participants on the basis of pleasure. For those that agree against the 'unnatural" lesbian sex, have to face the contradiction that Nature rewards the act with pleasure.

As far as societies go, sex is given a subjective definition and some societies not only tolerate homosexuality, but also allot some social function to it.

Like the Christians do, espousing some sort of absolute rule about sex is unrealistic. Besides, christianity stands for cultural references of the past century.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]What exactly does this question mean? Would you mind explaining it a bit because I don't quite get it.[/quote]As with the general theistic assumption of conceiving an absolute void preceding this Universe and even matter and that the structural complexity of the Universe points at an intelligent. However an absolute void eliminates a pre-existing structure/platform, no immutable principles to be followed or conformed to.

Rather a free minded omnipotent being will rather conceive his own will, which itself isn't predeterminable.

The principle of cause and effect is still relevant here. As long as we believe that consciousness is housed in the brain, we aren't permitted to admit consciousness outside such facility.

But what does NDE suggest? That there can be an experience of actual death? Isn't death supposed to be beyond experience??

Mr diehard

I'm still awaiting your response.

@rossike

Let's discuss the Nigerian army's most sophisticated operations. Seaborne operation at Onitsha bridge in the Civil War and Adekunle's raids in Niger Delta. What else? Besides in peacekeeping missions, Nigerians are known to loot

The S/A has Cabinda, and the incredible coordination of operation against Luanda, though they lost but incredible.

Egypt was involved in one of the largest tank battles in history.

diehard: @Kay 17, God is the grand designer of the universe and He loves order. That is why there is law governing the universe and its planetary systems. The earth is at the right distance from the sun, anymore closer it'll be too hot to sustain life, any further it'll be too cold for most species to survive. And by the way laws are not made by chance, they come from well thought out plans and purposes.

That didn't answer my question. Why was design NECESSARY for creation??

Nigerian army is still on that "wait for the artillery " attitude. The indiscipline is obvious, the army is been dragged to do mundane functions such as policing which is wrong and corrupts it. The soldiers treat civilians roughly, which is definitely not discipline.

Besides they don't show any tactical awareness, rag tag liberian kid fighters often outwitted our troops. If there is no armoured tank, they wouldn't move.

Rescue operations take 10 hours! Killing of civilians in crisis areas in disasterous and incompetent.

diehard: The Universe: Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself. The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.
The universe operates by uniform laws of nature that never changes, why does it? Gravity remains consistent and the speed of light doesn't change -- on earth or in galaxies far from us.
This must be the Handiwork of some master planner, or do you have a better explanation. Even scientist that believes in the big bang theory cannot attempt to answer such uniformity.
Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle."


We'll soon get to the planet earth and it's complexity which points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
We'll also get the complexity of the human anatomy and the brain which our medical science is fully yet to understans all of its workings. all this point to grand designer

Pls, tell us God is the simplest substance in existence and explain why design is necessary to the omnipotent god. And define evil

I stopped reading African history of the contact with Europeans because the battles were too embarrassing. Apart from Shaka, who developed the appropriate weapon of its peculiar war and modern tactics which are still in use today, most African armies relied on voodoo. The ijebus for instance that 10x the number of the British soldiers numbering 89 or so.

Despite the voodoo/jazz, they were wiped out! Pragmatism works. U can't carry flowers and chickens heads to battle and win. Same in Liberia, kids wore all sorts of charms, killed bigger fishes with bigger charms to secure and make theirs bigger, but didn't realise how useless the charms of both sides were!

Nollywood is a mirror of our society and how perverse the entertainment we enjoy. Nobody here has actually witnessed such rituals and its productivity. Rather we tag certain appearances of wealth as voodoo inspired.

Though thats not in line with the thread, but the Prophet is an example to all muslims despite his weaknesses.

Nice response

Though you are frank about the Prophet's weaknesses, doesn't it demonstrate/suggest the fallibility of Islam. Cos Islam is built upon the credibility and character of the Prophet. The Prophet's testimony that God spoke to him, that God sent a message to us through him.

frosbel: I think Mollie has made a point.

Allow God fill in the emptiness and void in your lives , it must really hurt when you rant against GOD night and day and he does not even respond , somewhat akin to you and your cohorts beating at the air with no impact whatsoever.

To me, god is nothing. I'm more interested in clearing off the outdated iRrelevant structures and values his followers have placed

Who is the false prophet?! The loyal opposition??

^^^

Such genocide isn't the act of the Prophet?

mollie12: plaetton, your level of confusion has passed me oh, I have to leave you to God, seriously!

Academic dons formed part of the people that wrote the Bible. Luke was a historian, Paul was a former Pharisee, one of the OT writers was a scribe - THESE WERE THE INTELLECTUAL PROFESSIONS OF THEIR DAY! I don't know where you got the idea that God hates academics.

WHAT DID YOU SAY CHRIST IS?!? My brother, I beg you, please run FAR AWAY from that deceptive doctrine of the New Age Christ. The Christ you make reference to is an imposter. The REAL Christ is the son of God revealed in the Holy Bible.

The end of intellectualism without God is a deep dark terrible tunnel, though the path trail may look very tempting, whispering its empty promises of superiority and possession of the deepest level of wisdom. Please run away from deception. 'There is no knowledge, or wisdom, or counsel, against the Lord'. Anything that is masquerading as such is simply foolishness. That's all I can say.

Yet Christianity hasn't been able to have such an intellectual impact/force. It comes across as ill prepared, poorly conceived and stupi.d. (Not saying Christians are stupid). It seems to rest on superstition and unjustifiable assumptions.

@frosbel

Demons contradict and defy the almighty, yet they are free from his Will.

Rather than speak vaguely abt a non existent value of atheism, attack materialism or humanism or atheistic existentialism or communism or anarchism or stoicism. Point at the main philosophy you are against, not speak ignorantly abt atheism.

Uyi Iredia: The doom of atheists is the stup1d1ty and futility of their philosophy. That's enough doom for me.

Sometimes I fail to understand you. WHat philosophy of atheism is futile??

mollie12: Err... guy, I didn't get my knowledge from stone-age (huh?!) cave dwellers etc. God inspired several men to write the bible, MAJORITY of which were learned and didn't fall into any of the primitive categories you listed. And even if they did, they were inspired of God.

The ultimate authority of Christianity rests on you. The Bible's justification is found in your unfounded belief that its inspired by god

mollie12: The true God is not unquestionable, a mystery or beyond reason. People wrapped him in that cloak throughout history but He sent his Son to correct that anomaly. The books of Habbakuk and Job in the Bible chronicle the experiences of people that questioned God - and these men were not struck dead for doing so. God is not beyond reason. We human beings all have an innate desire to worship something - its something we cannot deny because we were wired up that way. Some have satisfied this desire with the worship of knowledge, material things, intellect and even self. But the God phenomenon cannot be reasoned away - even though its hard to wrap our minds around it, it is part of us anyway.

Christianity has fatal flaws by claiming a perfect creator with a broken will and creation. The necessity of Jesus is weakness of the god. The need for a saviour diminishes the almighty.

True, however its misleading to label islam as a religion that entirely forbids violence. Also, the execution and enslavement of the Jews is taken as an act of the Prophet and which sets precedent. Whether its pagan law or not, the supposed divine law has the final say.

mollie12: Wow.

What a journey.

You seem convinced, so I should probably not bother trying to persuade you otherwise. But just in case you are a bit unsure about the present path choice you 've made, let me try to help you out.

The first thing I'll say is
YOU LOOKED IN ALL THE WRONG PLACES!

Or more like, WHAT EXACTLY WERE YOU LOOKING FOR ANYWAY!?!

A book by a Jesuit priest and another by an academic don?!? Guy, that's like going to the orthopaedic surgeon when I need my tooth pulled! No - there's no way you could have gotten any useful information (or help) from any of those guys.

You say Jesus lived 2000 yrs, Israel is not in Africa, bla bla bla, PLEASE HOW DO ANY OF THOSE FACTS CONTRADICT THE GOSPEL MESSAGE!?! Or is it the same Christianity I'm thinking of that you are referring to? My brother this is HIGHLY CONFUSING!

I read 'Things fall apart' and see the story of imperfect man, using the perfect message of Christ to achieve selfish ends, you read the same book and see... otherwise. I guess I'll just put that to perception.

The true God, His true Son, and their true Gospel message is out there and cannot be tainted by whatever anyone thinks or says or perceives.

I'll plead with you to give God another shot. This time, please look in the right directions, and look with your heart.

NB: Err... we don't pray to the Holy Spirit oh, we pray to God.

The true god and his true son with that desire and that want. Why isn't he questionable? Why is he a mystery? Why is he beyond reason?

The so called God of the bible is an aberration of love. First he is imperfect and a victim of his emotions, he is weak that's why he sends flawed humans to pass on a flawed message.

Neither is he righteous or good. We at least have our idea of good and its nt dependent on a despot.

I am not saying God exists, but what the bible says about god.

Also one can choose to bash a religion or not

Given that most ppl don't understand classical arabic, I could argue that the Quran and consequentially islam is inaccessible to me.

How does this relate to peace? And when compared with Jainism and some strains of Buddhism which advocate total peace.

Also given the acts of the Prophet, the execution of the Jews at Medinah and execution of prisoners of war and the use of slavery as a weapon.

It blew my mind.like the wheel reference.

1. Let's forget about that. Its a distraction.

2. I take that as an admission. Yes, mountains demonstrate a leve of design as well as functionality, however as you pointed out, its not grown by an intelligent designer, rather determined by the interaction of physical laws. Logic and morality are not relevant in this discussion.

3. You didn't answer my Q.

My belief in this matter is God, Allah, Zeus all extend to the cultural realm where their existence isn't a question at all. That they are relevant to us to create laws and morals, to create a history (cos its history that binds a nation), and perception/worldview.

This in turn is giving way to secularism and naturalism.

If you note, the bible didn't promise any body proof or physical evidence or a revelation. You are to accept its positive claims purely by faith. So Christians who engage in proving the impossible always find themselves in a mess.

seyibrown: Ignorance of the law is no excuse! Not 100% of all countries' citizens 'recognize' their government but they are still bound by the laws of the government.

In some countries, ignorance of the law is excused, esp. for traffic offences.

Once I began to understand Islam, I admired that unity in worship. If one didn't want to pray alone, he could with his brothers (faithful) under a tree or the nearest mosque.