₦airaland Forum

Good effort wirinet, read my mind.

Blackteeth: Stop asking this silly question. You have to first explain where humans came from supported with practical demonstration to produce a human without birth before asking where an unseenspirit God came from.
When would you realize that your brain power is limited? The issue of where God came from is where our brain power ended.

Its not a silly question. On the question of the origin of life I sincerely don't know. Why do you think God is incomprehensible?

snthesis: @OP
you will never get a definite answer, at best they would throw the question back at you and ask for your reasons in believing the existence of an intelligent creator, next step is to for you to proof He exists, afterwhich you have to answer Who made the Intelligent Creator and so on and so forth>>> but the actual poser you asked will never be answered straightforward. and the reason is obvious atheist have no answers.


and in all this, you wonder why the Creator lets these atheist to exist, inspite of the way they mock His name and they dont get struckdown by Fire and Brimstone immediately. i got this Wonderful revelation, which is in relation to a question most atheist often ask the purpose of their existence? and the reason is clear to me, God allows atheist to live in other to test and strenghten the faith of the true believers, He wants a people that truly know Him (personally and not because they were forced to believe- He aint looking for pretenders), so how do you know, that you know Him?,- easy peasy, by passing the first test - atheism.

Aint you mocking your God's powers? What you said ought to be heresy. IF God already has knowledge on all future events and actions with the results, and knows the thought of every man, why would he test ppl? For what end?

Blackteeth: For a human to exist, each unit must work together with the entire system to produce a human. Each unit cant stand alone. Are you saying that the more than 1000 units of the human system just started working together by chance without any force directing and mobilizing them to produce a specific end product?

The Universe's laws guide such transformation of simplicity to grand complexities. For example, take a handful of sand and spill it into a bowl of water. With time u find the particles had settled and order.

The Sun, stars, galaxies, snowflakes are very complex bodies crafted by Nature

If one is to build a house or a car, one MUST take into consideration and conform to physical laws of the universe for it to stand, ie gravity, laws of motion etc. Just the same way a pile of sand is a better design than a skyscraper with five minutes to stand.

The Universe: being everything that exists; serves as the platform in which everything makes sense, which demands the necessary design of all objects, in order words, for objects to survive they must conform to these laws. Rationality and order both are the result of these background laws and why Science can work.

On the question on the cause of everything. In the absence of everything will be nothing. Nothing in its nature is barren and to expect everything or anything to aruse from will imply a contradiction. It like pulling a rabbit from an empty hat. As a result, everything must exist either in actuality or potential. The materials that make up the universe: namely matter had always existed in its simplest form.

In my view, for any form to exist in this universe, it must "work". Failed designs crumble.

cooltrycia: if you still doubt ask science or whatever u believe THOSE APE THAT BECAM HUMAN ACORDIN 2 THEM,WHERE DID D APES COM 4RM? ASK D LAWS OF GRAVITY HOW COME D EARTH HANGS ON NOTHING? B4 SCIEN2 WAS GOD WHO IS ALL POWERFUL

Where did God come from??

Laryokeke: The truth is there's something about religion which we can't explain. Miracles are real and this points to the fact that there might be a God. On the other hand, the chaos on earth, and the innumerable gods proffered by the world makes one think otherwise.

Hence, no matter what u believe, you can't be too sure. Its therefore only proper to lay d issue to rest as arguing, researching or praying about it won't make you any surer

I agree that in a world where miracles exist, flying horses, talking dogs, talking snakes, talking houses, angels with feathers and GOD exists. Pls don't ask me for the cause of anything, since miracles/magic exist there wouldn't be the need for rationality

Laryokeke: The truth is there's something about religion which we can't explain. Miracles are real and this points to the fact that there might be a God. On the other hand, the chaos on earth, and the innumerable gods proffered by the world makes one think otherwise.

Hence, no matter what u believe, you can't be too sure. Its therefore only proper to lay d issue to rest as arguing, researching or praying about it won't make you any surer

I agree that in a world where miracles exist, flying horses, talking dogs, talking snakes, talking houses, angels with feathers and GOD exists.

maclatunji: Fatie, there is no amount of books you read that will divorce you from God. It is impossible, you know it in the deepest part of the bottom of your heart.

Why do you think atheists continually make efforts to prove the 'non-existence' of God? It is because they are empty and need to antagonise to remain relevant and have any sense of worth.

As long as Faith is the foundation, it will collapse.

rastamouse: Great post my brother...It is a pity that most people cannot just comprehend.

Check this out...

There were two scientists who had stayed all their lives in space. They decided to visit earth. One of the scientists had heard about gravity and told his colleague. The colleague laughed at such an idea and said that nothing like that exists because it has no evidence in space. To be on the safer side, the scientist who believe in gravity took a parachute before going into the spaceship on the trip to the earth. The other scientist of course laughed at that as well saying it was a waste of time.

On entering the earth, they realized that they had miscalculated the gaseous levels when they built the spaceship. Their vehicle gave a signal that it was going to blow up so they should jump. They were several feet in the sky. The guy with the parachute just placed it at his back and jumped. He immediately started going down and instantly knew that it was the effect of gravity. He pulled the knob of his parachute and was carried down safely.

The other scientist also jumped...and realized rather too late that there is gravity.Of course he paid for his stupidity by crashing to the ground and bursting up.

The choice my friends, is in your hands. Choose what you want to believe...I don't think anyone should be pampered. Anyone with genuine question can be helped but the sarcastic ones may live to regret later.

how did the first guy KNOW there was gravity on earth, did he guess??

Sweetnecta: @Op [Avicenna]: Allah says I am your Lord, worship me.
Muhammad [as] said worship Allah alone in Islam as in there is no God but God Alone and I Muhammad [as] is His last Messenger and Prophet in one to you and all human being.

isn't it strange for Muhammed to be stamping his validation with his own hands?! Until there is another witness that can testify to seeing Angel Michael dictate the Quran to Muhammed, its pure hearsay. And not a valid testimony.

Great philosophers have found great truths by thinking, thus revelations and dogmas are trash!!

reloboy: I don't believe you but if you do pray five times a day and you still fink there is no God then U must be under a spell or sumtin is wrong wif U. brother HELL IS REAL Think!!!
A food for thought

All these half baked thoughts, how do you know Hell is real, when you are here with us?! Hell told you? Sweetnecta actually had nothing to say but make an argument from ignorance as to the existence of Hell.

Besides isn't it despotic and bad to demand total submission and servitude from sentient beings?!

tbaba1234: Exactly, that is why actions based on social conditioning are not objective:: God set laws for man to know what is universally right or wrong. The world was not created without a purpose.

No, I didn't say such. I meant free will is impossible. And I never mentioned socially conditioned actions as a standard of good and evil. I have defined Evil earlier.

tbaba1234: It is a silly analogy to project the imperfections of Man to the creator given that man was given the free will to make his own choices

As I mentioned earlier free will is an illusion, since evil is already in man's nature, man will act accordingly.

tbaba1234: Muslims do not only believe that God is just good and omnipotent. Muslims believe that part of God’s names and attributes include ‘the Just’, ‘the Severe in Punishment’, ‘the Wise’, ‘the Avenger’, and ‘the Compassionate’, amongst many others. The Muslim does not reduce God to parts, rather God is seen as one and unique in context of all his names and attributes. So if God was just good and omnipotent, then there may be problem in reconciling suffering and evil in the world. However if you include attributes such as ‘the Severe in Punishment’, ‘the Wise’, these problems would not exist. Because perceived evil and suffering in the world can be due to

As I said earlier, Justice makes sense only if there is imperfection to redress. Its an after thought to evil.

tbaba1234: 1. God’s punishment as a result of our sins and bad actions.

2. God’s wisdom, as there may be divine wisdom in permitting evil and suffering.

The meaning of the word ‘good’ attributed to God needs to be understood in a divine context. In general terms the word ‘good’ has a meaning that relates to human experience, whereas in Islamic theology ‘good’ as an attribute of God is primarily viewed as a unique attribute that can be appreciated but not fully comprehended due to his uniqueness and transcendental nature.

Please read Quran 18:60-82:::: The story shows how things we see as evil could be out of the wisdom of God. Arguing against that wisdom is an argument in ignorance

If God is good, and evil is a part and a tool of him, then Evil is good?? That's an absurd conclusion!

The question why God gave man the potential to do evil still persists! And after programming Evil into man, why is he punishing him for it?

tbaba1234: Exactly, that is why actions based on social conditioning are not objective:: God set laws for man to know what is universally right or wrong. The world was not created without a purpose.

No, I didn't say such. I meant free will is impossible. And I never mentioned socially conditioned actions as a standard of good and evil. I have defined Evil earlier.

tbaba1234: It is a silly analogy to project the imperfections of Man to the creator given that man was given the free will to make his own choices

As I mentioned earlier free will is an illusion, since evil is already in man's nature, man will act accordingly.

tbaba1234: Muslims do not only believe that God is just good and omnipotent. Muslims believe that part of God’s names and attributes include ‘the Just’, ‘the Severe in Punishment’, ‘the Wise’, ‘the Avenger’, and ‘the Compassionate’, amongst many others. The Muslim does not reduce God to parts, rather God is seen as one and unique in context of all his names and attributes. So if God was just good and omnipotent, then there may be problem in reconciling suffering and evil in the world. However if you include attributes such as ‘the Severe in Punishment’, ‘the Wise’, these problems would not exist. Because perceived evil and suffering in the world can be due to

As I said earlier, Justice makes sense only if there is imperfection to redress. Its an after thought to evil.

tbaba1234: 1. God’s punishment as a result of our sins and bad actions.

2. God’s wisdom, as there may be divine wisdom in permitting evil and suffering.

The meaning of the word ‘good’ attributed to God needs to be understood in a divine context. In general terms the word ‘good’ has a meaning that relates to human experience, whereas in Islamic theology ‘good’ as an attribute of God is primarily viewed as a unique attribute that can be appreciated but not fully comprehended due to his uniqueness and transcendental nature.

Please read Quran 18:60-82:::: The story shows how things we see as evil could be out of the wisdom of God. Arguing against that wisdom is an argument in ignorance

If God is good, and evil is a part and a tool of him, then Evil is good?? That's an absurd conclusion!

The question why God gave man the potential to do evil still persists! And after programming Evil into man, why is he punishing him for it?

tbaba1234: Exactly, that is why actions based on social conditioning are not objective:: God set laws for man to know what is universally right or wrong. The world was not created without a purpose.

No, I didn't say such. I meant free will is impossible. And I never mentioned socially conditioned actions as a standard of good and evil. I have defined Evil earlier.

tbaba1234: It is a silly analogy to project the imperfections of Man to the creator given that man was given the free will to make his own choices

As I mentioned earlier free will is an illusion, since evil is already in man's nature, man will act accordingly.

tbaba1234: Muslims do not only believe that God is just good and omnipotent. Muslims believe that part of God’s names and attributes include ‘the Just’, ‘the Severe in Punishment’, ‘the Wise’, ‘the Avenger’, and ‘the Compassionate’, amongst many others. The Muslim does not reduce God to parts, rather God is seen as one and unique in context of all his names and attributes. So if God was just good and omnipotent, then there may be problem in reconciling suffering and evil in the world. However if you include attributes such as ‘the Severe in Punishment’, ‘the Wise’, these problems would not exist. Because perceived evil and suffering in the world can be due to

As I said earlier, Justice makes sense only if there is imperfection to redress. Its an after thought to evil.

tbaba1234: 1. God’s punishment as a result of our sins and bad actions.

2. God’s wisdom, as there may be divine wisdom in permitting evil and suffering.

The meaning of the word ‘good’ attributed to God needs to be understood in a divine context. In general terms the word ‘good’ has a meaning that relates to human experience, whereas in Islamic theology ‘good’ as an attribute of God is primarily viewed as a unique attribute that can be appreciated but not fully comprehended due to his uniqueness and transcendental nature.

Please read Quran 18:60-82:::: The story shows how things we see as evil could be out of the wisdom of God. Arguing against that wisdom is an argument in ignorance

If God is good, and evil is a part and a tool of him, then Evil is good?? That's an absurd conclusion!

The question why God gave man the potential to do evil still persists! And after programming Evil into man, why is he punishing him for it?

Why would you need to pray if God being omniscient already knows your wishes??

You Christians act like you are worshipping a deaf and dumb monster

FXKing2012: By the time u the spirits descends on u, u wont have a choice but to submit; u cant resist it dear.

Ok.

Since sthnesis has refused to explain how God created everything nothingness, another question is why is there God? And who gave him the requisite powers to create everything (working with ur assumption)

tbaba1234: Man's Intellectual capabilities is not an objective measure of good because there is no such thing as an alignment with that his intellectual capacity with nature?? what does that mean exactly? Human intellectual capacity is prone to untold 'evil'. Man's intellectual capacity is subject to social pressures which we already talked about.

Evil is like a design flaw, many parts of a whole working in conflict against each other. I would say a misalignment of purpose/role. Look at how Life tears itself apart to survive, what aim or purpose could that further? and likewise the manner in which nature is cruel to life and man. Man accomplishes the most amazing feats, yet at every turn of his endeavors, Nature and man's limitations offer opposition.

Also purposeless pain and suffering, its self defeating. It cripples the body and mind. As a result, particular acts are evil: genocides, murder and even self defence.

tbaba1234: Man has free-will and the acts of rape, homosexuality, genocide, murder, suicide-bombing are expressions of that free will.

The concept of free will is absurd, man can't be self caused, man is not omnipotent, man is not beyond his limitations. Man is a product of his enivronment and nature. A man's actions are influenced by culture, environment, education, awareness/knowledge, necessity.
Since God gave man the potential to be evil, he was became flawed, broken, incapacitated. And man is bound to act by his nature which isn't boundless. An imperfect being can't function perfectly.

tb1234: A muslim / theist will make the argument:

1. If God did not exist, then objective moral values would not exist

2. Evil exists

3. Therefore objective moral values exists (from premise 2)

4. Therefore, God exists.

Because with a God , there is no objective value for morality.

Why did God create man with the capacity for evil?

Muslims believe that this life is a test for man. What is the use of a test if Man is created perfect? Our actions on this earth in spite of all the mercy we receive will be witnesses for or against us.

You have to explain why a moral agent is the standard of good not the acts. Also the apparent contradiction of good being the source of evil.
Also if God is absurdly good as an attribute and he uses and desires wouldn't it be ridiculous to imply evil is good?

tb1234: Man was created for a purpose::: When Man starts fulfilling his purpose, he finds genuine contentment and happiness. Everything else that happens in the world is temporary and secondary.

another question for you, in Islamic theology, is man indispensable in his purpose?

I don't think the right question is "why did God create evil", it should be "why did God give man the potential to do evil?"

There isn't the need for justice in a perfect world, its essence is to address and correct imperfection, thus before discussing justice the source of evil/imperfect must be sought.

Objective Good is an alignment/harmony between man, his intellect and Nature in an indestructuve bond, which will result to a full blossom of man's intellectual capabilities

Assuming God created everything and wishes and all acts that accord with it are good, a paradox will arise as to good being the source of evil.

Also note that if God's wishes are the standard of good, then acts like rape, homosexuality, genocide, murder, suicide-bombing are not evil by their NATURE. Good will lack rationality and colour. Like a chameleon, change everytime with the whims of God. Such definition of good is ridiculous. Good (objective) must be a standard independent of a "moral" agent. It could go as ridiculous as evil being good since its a tool by God, its stinks of absurdity.

@deepsight
The vaguely defined subject God is not a commonly/universally accepted idea as the originating factor of everything.

On the other hand, its a fallacy populii

snthesis: dis atheist with dia big big grammer ex nihilo - choi!!!
anywayd seems most of you are half baked- u only read one part without completing the sentence - the complete phrase is "creatio ex nihilo " which mean creating out of nothing, and this implies that it is a form of Creation, not the total definition of Creation. a lil more research and guess what i found "creatio ex materia" - (creation out of existing material) "creatio ex deo" (creation out of the being of God)

LOL!! Thanks for the latin lecture, next time I would mention "creating creatio ex nihilo".

Creation could be read as new form, and in this sense with the origin of everything: it could only mean emerging existence. Which implies creation ex nihilo or ex deo. Which is it?

FXKing2012: Pls take up the challenge and stop all these your senseless ramblings.

If I do go to a MOG and I don't fall under the anointing, would u agree there is no spiritual??

snthesis: why is it difficult to understand simple terms
i defined what God is, and it has nothing to do with religion
how can you (MAN) say there is no GOD- are you implying that you created yourself
if YOU didnt create yourself, it means you were made, YOu have a GOD!!!!

and I have clearly told you that creation suggests creating ex nihilo. Thus neither god nor man creates

FXKing2012: God knows all things and can do all things. He knows your future and your heart; nothing is hidden from him.

The challenge is to prove to you that there is a spiritual dimension. I would like to take u or send u to a MOG and if u dont fall under the anointing when he prays for u then you can claim there is no such thing as the spirit realm. Do u have wat it takes to take up the challenge or do u wanna keep wallowing in ignorance and making unfounded claims which only lead to hell.

^^^ this is the proof of the spiritual?! I thought you were a serious person. It took you over 9 pages to reach your confusion! Just admit I don't know, but its Faith.

If God says so

I believe it would be like sleeping. But staggerman's post was inspiring. Lucky guy!

Same bad arguments. C'mon Jesus is the one because he said SO??!! If God was creating the Universe out of nothing why was it necessary for God to give it character and order?? What is the obvious purpose of the Universe?? Is Nature incapable of weaving complexities?? Isn't the DNA an accumulation of genetic data?

Let's break things down, eating from a tree of knowledge wasn't the sin, because knowledge is not bad, right but that act od disobedience.

My question is since God is not bound by anything, rule, or morality or by necessity, why didnt he forget them on that spot?

*mistake coRrected

I think, in Christianity the Devil is as powerful as Yahweh. Its more like a duality. But they don't seem to represent the absolutes of good and evil

Taking the universe as everything that exists, it can't be created. So that's the source of our disagreement.

The universe creating itself is absurd because its self cause. Likewise God creating it ex nihilo, its a contradiction, except he creates it from his substance.

Existence can't begin to exist, Being is eternal, as long as there is existence now, there was always it prior to now.