₦airaland Forum

mazaje: Pastor Andrew Ozoemena should tell people he just wants to open a new church and is looking for a strategy to make his name popular. . .The family of "pastors" are just looking for ways to expand their church business and break away from the living faith church and open their own church business. . .Only in Nigeria will people believe this garbage, the Nigerian print media is so useless that they report all sort of nonsense from a human being turning into a motor bike to a human being turning into a vulture to this garbage about a woman resurrecting after 12 days. . . .SMH, no wonder the country is the way it is. . .Nonsense!. . .

Religion is really opium of the people.a

jmoore: Continue to be a skeptic at your own peril because reasoning is always limited. Miracle is meant to defy logic and common sense, that's why it is called a miracle.



your eyes did not see this “However, another call came in by 2 a.m. that is Sunday morning that she had been confirmed dead by a doctor’s report. "



Coma in such conditions, and still survive?

One thing about skeptics is they will only want to believe when it happens to them, but only few skeptics will experience it while the majority of them will have one way ticket to hell.

The new old thing is to threaten ppl with Hell when confronted by reason and commonsense. If thinking is not what guides us from errors, what will??

FXKing2012: You guys are really funny: the percentage of atheists in the world is a mere 2.3% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism), does common sense not tell you that the 2.3% atheists can not be wiser and smarter than the almost 98% who believe in God or some form of god. This is just common sense!

How is that a good argument?! Its not better than "go see a MOG" as proof for spirituality.

What is the use of prayer?

buzugee: when you read a story that sounds absolutely ridiculous and ludicrous ? then you know it is symbolic or allegoric. for example

1-a snake talking to a woman ( very ridiculous. can never happen )
2-someone getting pregnant without sex ( very ridiculous. can never happen )
3-God creating only 1 man and 1 woman. and only these 2 people populating the earth to the tune of 7 billion ( very ridiculous story. imagine all the incest that would have had to happen for that to be a reality ? and God specifically states in the levitical laws that you should not sleep with your father or mother or sister or aunty or stepmother or daughter or son etc etc because it is an abomination )

etc etc etc etc

Like the Law, right?

What fills up these gaps?

But free will is not an individual, its a power.

buzugee: nah Chief i dont interpret nothing for the edification of my fantasies. scripture is of no private interpretation (2 peter 1 vs 20)

Where do interpretational standards come from. Like when to read the bible figuratively or literally.

Image123: Worship is ethical to some, like to me, God etc?

You didn't understand me. I meant whether free will ois progressive or destructive is not in issue. What is free will is what's in issue.

joe4christ: Reading through your signature, i just could not but pity you, you're realy in bundage of darkness but it's quite unfortunate that you cannot just see it for yourself cos the day a mad man realizes that he's insane that madness has just lost it's grip over that individual.

I'll continue to remember you guys in my prayer hoping God will open your eyes someday beyond the veil of the natural to supernatural realm so you could see things for yourself without anyone telling how it is, maybe then you would believe.

Ok there is Satan, God, demons, Angels, zechariah, jinns, lamps, beelzub, lucifer, Jesus, ghosts etc. BUT not ONE person has seen all these guys! Pls tell us why God created them and why he gave them names of fairies. Thank U!

Image123: Do you think there should be prisons and police, or it's better everyone has unlimited freedom and all forms of liberty?

I don't think we are dealing with ethical questions on free will, rather its nature.

Image123: oh then we'll call it 'choice ultimatum'. God says we were created for that purpose. When you own something, personally made or bought, you expect it to fulfill its purpose, else its good for nothing. Waste disposal, please use the recycle bin.

Free will by a sentient being, is self determination, the freedom to define his/its purpose to a goal of happiness or whatever he/it wishes.

The reward and punishment system used by yahweh and other dictators, is sufficient restriction any form of liberty. It is more or less a positive reinforcement.

Freewill is synonymous to unbounded by necessity, law, culture etc..

hisblud: @snthesis it looks atheists here have grown cold feet in deciding which premise to take a stand on. Please are you debating this on any forum apart from nairaland. Post a link, i did like to follow you on it. And its better than that generalization. Thanks for making me think.

The premise don't make any fucking sense. For if God is self caused that contradicts logic as a result can't exist!

Without a cause, there can't be an effect in the first place, thus where cometh effect despite an absent cause.

TB Joshua is just a nigga clown. If he has the power of foresight, why can't he make good use of it? There are lots of mysteries to be uncovered, technology to be discovered etc. He should tell us where the other gospel books are hidden, how titanic sank, the physical composition of the Universe.

However as long as communists like Jim Jones perform miracles and prophecies, why can't TB Joshua??

[quote author=Oro-Agba]Hi Kay 17, intensity of work has kept me away from nairaland for a while that is why i have not been able to respond to your latest post. But now i'm a bit free.

Based on your responses to my post i make the following observations
1. you are aware that scientists have not fully grasped the origin of the singularity that expanded/exploded during the big-bang
2. That the singularity that expanded/exploded during the big-bang is composed of infinitely dense particles which has not been understood where they came from.
3. According to newtonian physics, a body will continue in its state of rest or uniform motion on a straight line except an external force acts on it. Hence the singularity (a point of infinitely dense particle) should remain like that eternally without an external influence. Hence for the singularity to beging to expand/explode, an external influence must have acted on it. what is this external influence?[/quote]Science doesn't know whats before the point of singularity. Its an unknown. The external influence was probably temperature.

Oro agba: 4. There is indeed a begining of all things and also a force/personality which brought about the existence of the universe hence the atheist concept of infinite cause "no first cause" is itself not supported by science (point-3 above)

Your premise is faulty and leads to an infinite regress.

Oro agba: i have tried to explain to you that the creation story in Gen 1 is not the begining but can be viewed as a renewal of the face of the earth (there is an unstated period of time btw gen1:1 and gen1:3 which could be a long a 15billion years as proposed by science).Additionally, in the absence of contrary evidence from you, the creation of the earth gen1:3 did not take a literal 6 earth days but rather 6 heavenly days which is equivalent to about 1000 earth years (2Pet3:3). Hence i put it to you that this bible facts don't contradict the findings of science.

Hence since i have been able to severally explain how bible facts are not inconsistent with certain scientific observations (see chain of Q/A) except you raise new ones, and how science comes to establish at last what the bible has alluded to at first, i find it therefore in areas of conflict between bible and science to take sides with the bible since science is still growing and may in the futur come up to confirm what the bible already affirms.

Hence the bible says in the begining God created....., but science says in the begining the singularity expanded/exploded...take note like i pointed earlier that the singularity which already existed in a form cannot change form without an external influence( newtonian physics) hence i think science itself is coming up gradulally to the conclusion that in the begining a force/person initiated the expansion/explosion of ....Science will likely one day scientifically confirm the existence of God and at that point people like you would belief but may be too late.

Where does your premise that the Bible contains only the Truth come from?

Unquestioning worship of a paper idol

@sthnesis

Saying an effect triggers a cause

yommy2sure: or so everything must proof its own existence? Loling @ the way u tink...i bet all the elements were never in existence, they only came into existence wen they were discovered. I wish you guys all the best in ur ignorance...only one that can prove to know all things is thr omniscient and since none of us is...the best we can say is 'we dont know' not to claim an assertion that it doesnt exist...enjoy

To follow within our knowledge, proof is necessary.

ekwah: LogicMind IU can't read through what you have written above, but your logic is sooo damn flawed. As a typical Nigerian haven't you seen all the dark powers that traditional worhippers use with dem masqurades during festivals? Haven't you seen things that can not be explained in the physical before Believe me you think you can figure out spirituality with your small mind!! you are sooo wrong bro, sooo wrong

U mean superstition??

ekwah: @ Kay 17
Act like a matured m=person and stop throwing insults!! You believe in Hawkings theories right? I thought you atheists say you believe in only what you can see? I believe you are very blind mehn. Enjoy your ride o. Black theory my FOOT!!!

such an assumption is daft. Proof is what's necessary.

snthesis: we? u and who

btw wat makes it absurd?

You are implying an effect before the cause

Self cause is illogical.

Following bible stories, God/Jesus isn't of any help either, he had failed to secure his Creation, also failed to direct his chosen ppl and failed to accomplish total salvation and redemption of his creation.

Now Christianity does sound like a rational option.

hisblud: if a creature was not self created it implies it was made, it has a Maker , a God.
now if a creature is self Created, then it is a God unto itself. *
i have been following this and the bolded is a good logical argument. Please create a new thread on the above, atheist are not really tearing that argument apart, it looks its a watertight statement.[i][/i][b][/b]

@sthnesis

God is self caused?? We have agreed that's an absurdity

maclatunji: Because you weren't responsible with your comments.

In case you don't know of my philosophy, read this https://www.nairaland.com/864481/restoring-peace-order-islam-muslims .

If you follow the rules and their aligned principles, we will have no problems. However, if you fail to comply, you may get banned depending on the degree of your 'troublesomeness'.

Thank you and have a very nice day.

Wipe out dissent and criticism. And this isn't the first time you have deleted my post.

@moderator

Pls WHY was my last POST on this thread deleted??

Good effort DeepSight and its refreshing.

I do think we both have similar ideas, but expressed differently. I feel our natural world holds all the keys, information and truths we need, thus always appeal to it. As I say always, nothing precedes existence its eternal and its reality. Existence is personified in a Being which is the sum total of all that exists (including potentials). Its character form the immutable rules and laws that regulate reality and is the bedrock of rationality.

I sometimes call this Being the Universe, but that word has already a rigid definition in the scientific world, which will lead a misunderstanding. Its both material and immaterial, tangible and intangible. It has a solid non changing foundation, but within it is colourful dynamism. Its entirely physical, we can perceive its presence. The principle of causality is a feature of its dynamism.

But a fundamental difference I find in yours is that, you tend to diminsh your God by reducing him from being the sum total of all that exists to an isolated Being identified separately from the Rest. He is subjected to particular separate attributes which are "un"understandably anthropomorphic.

The word God is overloaded, misused, abused and monopolized by organized religion.

*tears* it would be a sad day if Music reaches its maximum for new tunes.

I think as long as there is a finite number of sounds, there will be a finite number of combination possible

Good effort tbaba

seguun: Are you saying this "already a reality" was not a "rational or creative mind"?. Ponder on how all the cosmos bodies got positioned in the most perfect way as if they were accurately calculated after the big bang, if the sun had been a little bit away from the earth than it is now, the earth would have been inhabitable due to excessive cold, if it (the sun) had been a bit closer to the earth than it is now, the earth would have been inhabitable due to excessive heat. Everything in its perfect orbit.
Do you think a rational entity can come out from an irrational entity?, do you think mankind, a rational and extremely complex being could be from the effect of this "already a reality" which is not a rational or "creative mind"?.
Do you know the quran talk about exactly how the universe came about scientifically?, these claims on the origin of the universe has never been recorded by any book or person before the quran 1400 years ago?

Design is a result of conforming the physical laws of the universe. Your house must obey such laws/rules to stand. Because the universe (everything in existence) has a character, it demands of this of entities within it. Physical laws guides all entites and even from apparent accidents they still hold designs. If God did create the universe from nothing, the Universe will be characterless as nothing is. As a result, there would be no need for design. On the other hand, if God created it from himself, the Universe will be supernatural as God is. Do we have a irrational Universe? NO! And there wouldn't be a design!

Why life has been able to survive on this planet is an odd. But looking at the vastness of the Universe, a tiny little spot among trillions of spots ought to have the right conditions for life to germinate and the adaptability of Life must be taken into consideration.

Christianity is led by a weak god, he kEeps making more mistakes necessitating the need for salvation.

Dipwater: Pls blackteeth wat category do I fall in ,ibiliv in God ,ido not belong to any religion and I also biliv dat God doesn't interfare in the affairs of man .I biliv he is the air the land the sea etc. I don't biliv in aheaven ,for me heaven or hell is wat u can make out of life.

a pantheist. Some atheists do have such ideas, the dynamism of Nature is admired. How I think religions have monopolized/trademark God to be an actual lifeform who preexists everything.

[quote author=Mai-suya].

on the issue of rights show me any verse in the quran which you think contravenes rights? you of all people should know better than making blanket generalizations.[/quote]I'm really disappointed. If human rights aren't declared and protected in the Quran, then its lacks authority.