₦airaland Forum

^^The only King I trust is me

Respect is a different issue though. Iba f'oba Alade!

I cannot wait for the eventual demystification of OBJ, The fake Ebora.

GEJ needs to dump Obasanjo like an overused rag.

OBJ has no political value beyond his former military goons and his frequent lame attempts at humor.

Goodluck! Dump him already!

seanet02:
Completely off topic discussion. Why cant you all start a new thread

You are right, should have started a new thread.

I blame Lekan though, his confusion inspired the digression

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=604046.msg7722031#msg7722031 date=1297577388]This is too abstract, man 

Let's talk a bit more concretely. A company like this: http://www.phusion.nl/

Basically was based upon the work of a small # of very good coders (Asian guys based in Europe.) They found an existing area of need, wrote a solution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phusion_Passenger), and have now built a company around it. It is thriving and doing well, a lot of popular websites today use their technology. How is hegemony negatively affects their business? 

You can start the same thing anywhere in the world, so long as you have good people.

That is why I keep emphasizing that patents are not the important thing, so much as good people. So long as you can generate new ideas and solve problems that people care about, you can innovate.

Now, does this mean you'll be on the level of a Google, Microsoft, Intel, etc? Probably not. But you can still do pretty well even by conquering certain niches.

This can be done even in Nigeria, with good power supply and faster internet access. No government is going to oppress you and "corrupt" away your business.[/quote]Since I read this before dozing off, let me attempt a coherent reply;

It is not as abstract as you think; It is not simple either.

The company you posted may not be based in America, but it will probably need to survive in an environment dominated by American companies, American ideals and American systems. I got this copy from the site you posted;--->>  "We provide Ruby & Rails products and services to companies that shape our modern culture" (LOL, I couldn't have put it better my self)

Then site went ahead to display logos of clients like Pixar, Twitter, New York Times and co. See what I mean by hegemony?

Phusion is driven my the needs and wants of Companies/Clients with deep cultural and intellectual allegiance to American values and ideals. They still have to pander to those peoples needs and ideals to be profitable.

I bet you've read about the problem Google had with China when they tried to circumvent the wishes of the Chinese leadership;

When Google was first accused of accommodating the censorship needs of the Chinese communist party, they defended themselves rigorously and claimed they were in control of the situation. Unfortunately they were not. Google eventually protested when the censorship demands of the Chinese Government conflicted with their American idea of freedom and privacy, they even threatened to withdraw. China was not fazed.

Google will have to comply if they want to operate in china. Because in China, Chinese ideals are the dominant ones to a large extent. In this America-crazy world, American ideals are the dominant ones, we all have to comply, until we can put a decent challenge.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/world/asia/14beijing.html

My fight is to get us that advantage culturally, at least within our own societies. . .

My point is; Culture matters. The values of the dominant society will always determine where the money will flow to, Until we seize the initiative culturally, we will continue to subject ourselves to the control and hegemony of the dominant society, in this case Western systems and ideals.

I'm now going to bed for real

^^ interesting, they once employed Torvald? Anyway I wish the Chinese IP exporter goodluck accessing a market created, controlled and dominated by US philosophies and driven my US media.

Businesses need to pay homage to these people to succeed, they don't just have the money, they are the high priests of the world we live in. It's not too hard to see why china is just a factory for American products and ideas, it will continue to be until they acquire the power to dictate trends and tastes. I think it's called hegemony.

Lol, I'm loyal to both Yorubaland and the US. Latter has done a lot for me in my life, so I cannot ever forget it. However, Yorubaland will need me more over the foreseeable future a lot more than the US will.

Very well then, i'm sure George Washington, Jefferson, Madison and all those folks will be proud of the system they created. Our hope is to jumpstart our own unique system and propagate our ideals, so we can motivate and obtain the eternal allegiance of both our people and foreigners alike.

Nice chatting with you bro! Time to retire for the day.

Actually, OBJ is very right, he's better off in Nigeria. . .

In Odu'a, they force useless rulers and kings to take poison and commit Harakiri.

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=604046.msg7721733#msg7721733 date=1297568438]No, this isn't the way to think about it. Say a team comes up with a great design for a microprocessor and patents it. The patent certainly has value, but of even more value is that team of engineers. Since with time and funding, they can improve upon what they've done.

Ultimately, technology and IP is about people with bright ideas, not companies. But obviously people can be moved around. If you strip away the talent from Intel and send it to China, within 5 years China will be able to produce processors as good as Intel.

Regarding your "American" comment, yes, fortunately for us, a lot of them view themselves as Americans  So they'll likely settle here for a while. But a good # of them return to China too.[/quote]Intel or any of these big American corps are not stupeed. They know how to keep their talents in America, maybe a few outliers or outright chinese tech spies will leave and return back to China. But majority of these folks will remain Americans strengthening that Yankee advantage because they've bought into American ideals and philosophies.

Ok I'll take that third paragraph to mean that we can't count on having you in our corner when the chips are down shey?

What about Odu'a republic? Can we count on your loyalty? 

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=604046.msg7721644#msg7721644 date=1297565156]This is not true at all. Given how far China was behind, how on earth could you say that this is the reason? They've been the fastest growing country on earth over the past 20+ years. It will take time for them to ever catch up, if ever.

Japanese cars were initially cheap, crappy imitations of American cars, but now have thoroughly dominated the US market. Copying is the fastest path towards dominance.
They'll be just fine as far as R& goes. Many of the dudes who are developing the nice technology in the US are of Chinese descent. They'll have absolutely no difficulty once they get to that stage.[/quote]I think you mean't to say "many of the dudes who are working as professional laborers for the real owners of the intellectual property are of Chinese descent"

At the end of the day, they are Americans anyway.

naijababe:
^ Actually all roads lead to 2pac 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl54ABY8VgY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfXwmDGJAB8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W69SSLfRJho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNcloTmvTeA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX5VCY28_Xo

and my all time fav :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4HjsZqOaQ0&feature=related

fstranger3:
^^^^

We have a lot more in common than I realize

No wonder we get along quite well


PS: Did you forget about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psBEj6cUXyk&NR=1

It will be extremely disappointing if Obama does not have Tu Pac playing all day In the Oval office and all over the White house. 

Tu pac's songs are motivational, It will be a stoopid waste of resources if that Brotha is trying to preside over America without inspiration

It's like me ruling Nigeria without some conc. Ijala and Ewi songs playing in Aso Rock!

Katsumoto:
You are very correct with the above.
No country can be a leader if it always copies. The reason China is still behind the US and EU is because it copies heavily and it is yet to respect IP. It has instituted a system to encourage innovation but the flaw with the system is that it pays out on patent registration rather than actually working prototypes. This has encouraged many Chinese to submits patents that will not see the light of day. As a result, what the Chinese are doing now is that they are buying up foreign companies not for the value of those companies but for the technology behind such companies. But even that can only go on for a while without a culture of R&.

You are also correct about the Germans; they are culturally frugal and that is why there is opposition in Germany to bailout of profligate and irresponsible governments in Europe.

I so wish we can at least do what China is doing, that will be a good start. Like i mentioned earlier, even their communism was copied, but they broke with the Russian originators by implementing it to the teeth and putting a Chinese twist on it.

I understand the danger inherent in a copycat system, no matter how good you copy, you are bound to trail the smart originators, But it's way better than what we have.

It will be best if we can get some original thinking going though.

Maybe I'm too much of a nationalist. . .

Katsumoto:
Germany also suffered in the recession but it was able to pull out quickly due to both luck and skilled management. Skill in the sense that it does not have any major competitors in the production of machinery. Luck in that when its main market in the West suffered due to the recession, it was able to find other markets in Asia. German cars have sold more cars to China since the recession and Chinese factories are dependent on machinery from Germany. The German economy is too dependent on exports and it is vulnerable to economic conditions in its main markets. It's mittelstand model is praised around the world but German must increase internal consumption if it is to reduce its dependencies on external economies.

Thank you for the clarification. Ultimately, it fits in with the message I'm strenuously trying to pass across; We need to enhance home grown ideas in all areas if we want to compete effectively or we go ahead and become master copycats, Currently, We are failing on both sides.

The Germans are playing to their strengths in Heavy industries and Manufacturing rather than swallowing up economic fads that do not fit into their culture. I understand they were not as invested in the Mortgage instruments that almost collapsed the world in 2007 as their other European counterparts were. Right? If that is true, I won't be surprised, they are culturally more restrained more austere than most Europeans.

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=604046.msg7721434#msg7721434 date=1297558781]@Kilode?!:You are too pessimistic, imo.  Labor is cheap in Nigeria. However, since electricity is expensive, capital scarce, and roads terrible, the actual cost of getting goods to market is high.

We don't need to get rid of the current system we have; far better to implement it properly. 24/7 electricity at reasonable prices => factories sprouting up like weeds in Ogun State to produce goods for the Lagos market, etc, etc.[/quote]Maybe I am. (although I think it's optimism) but it's not based on unrealistic calculations though, I'm not proposing these fundamental changes because I had too much vodka.

I'm not an expert in economics, But I'm also not blind to Nigeria's economic potentials. IMO, Economics will not change Nigeria bro, Fundamental structural changes will.

Our country is not just some market place, it's a society of living breathing humans, if we do not get the cultural and philosophical foundations right, we are heading no where, it not pessimism, it's reality.

On labor, Yes labor is cheap, unfortunately labor will not take itself to the market, it has to be propelled, It has to compete and the system has to be right for it to operate profitably and benefit Nigerians, I don't need to be an economist to see that we have the potential to dominate at least the African market.

I.e I know we have a potential market to die for, Coca-cola Hellenic just increased their stake in Coca-Cola Nigeria by buying off their very profitable Nigerian arm, now they own it.

The same for several companies in the consumer/retail industry. Our population will keep growing and foreigners and a few Nigerians will continue to make gazillion dollars out of Nigeria in the next few decades, will that change the Country, hell no! 50+ years of oil exploration and production did not.

The money will continue to leave through foreign capital flight, because we are beholden to a system that sees little value in the things that are inherently ours. and that is what we teach our children.

We are all victims of the same shortsightedness that got us where we are right now. That is the basis of my worry, You may not see the connection, but I see it clearly.

[quote author=bk.babe97y link=topic=604046.msg7721292#msg7721292 date=1297556493]Not true, just ask El Savador!

But why the cries? The Won is like 10gazzilion to a Dollar, yet, S.Korea's economy is gonna better Ghana's for 2000 lifetimes to come.

The problem is your country produces nothing of repute, outside of oil. . . . .

Ever wonder why China would rather have its Currency with a lower value than all other major economies?[/quote]Exactly! they keep their Renmimbi low to keep export cheap, right?

China has a culture that knows what it wants, they are telling the west; you can spend and have all the money, borrow and consume all you want with your freedom culture, but slowly and surely we will suffocate you by using our own austere culture to compete against yours.

I think Germans are like that too within the limits of European liberalism, they relatively managed to avoid a lot of the problems of the last financial crisis too

Germany is not a great civilization by copying every fad and China did not get a cultural revolution for nothing. . .

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=604046.msg7721229#msg7721229 date=1297555617]It isn't so much that I'm American so much as what I've learned as a student. Basically, it makes no sense not to copy. You copy and then build upon what you've copied.

Reinventing the wheel from scratch is a bit of a waste of resources. First understand how the wheel works, master it, then build on top of that.[/quote]It's been 50 years bro, probably 100 or more if you factor in the period we first had access to western systems of education and western philosophies

Creating home grown ideas that fit your culture based on your own philosophies is not re-inventing the wheel, it's just practical.

There is nothing wrong with a few tweaks and borrowing here and there to perfect the system. I'm not fanatical about these things.

At least communism and even state-capitalism is not a wholly Chinese philosophy in the strictest sense, but they made their own brand of communism uniquely theirs. We need to do the same.

This textbook adoption of western language, political system, philosophy and culture is keeping us down, that aside, IMO, we can never out-compete the originators when we use their system, they are not fools, there is a different way, if we look inward enough.

Unfortunately, we are currently ruled by thugs not thinkers, so the confusion continues while this kind of conversation on a national scale is relegated to the back.

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=604046.msg7720884#msg7720884 date=1297550921]Me, I want to be a good copycat  [/quote]Of course you are an American

Seriously though, I'll prefer a good copycat to a confused Nigerian.

My people want oyinbo system and Nigerian at the same time. We need a collective national psychotherapy session

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=604046.msg7720750#msg7720750 date=1297548902]At times I wish we'd just dollarize the economy, like some other countries have done. Life would be so much better if you knew your money would always be good.

Of course, if you do that then people think you want to enslave Nigeria, blah, blah blah.

Lots of good ideas cannot be implemented due to old fears like this  [/quote]I may not agree with you on the dollar issue, but I understand where that is coming from. We need to make up our mind as a people and a culture.

If we want to copy, we need to be good copycats. Or the best, else we continue to fail.

If we do not want to copy, we need to create our own systems totally and make sure it fits the realities of our culture and society. We will forever play second or third fiddle if we continue with this Abiku systems we have.

When people who should not be there end up going there, then they do what they should not be doing. The main thing is to bring the dividends of democracy back to their constituencies. It is not to start going to stuff your pockets. But I have met some of them; I asked them, bawo le se ma gba iru owo yi (How can you be collecting such money?). Many of them showed me text messages from their constituents – “My wife wants to give birth. Someone wants to get married.” One of them said, “Look I am sending N30,000, N20,000, N15,000 to party members. At the end of every month, N4m or N5m goes to all these people.” They said that if they did not collect the money, they would not have money to give to their people. When the lawmakers don’t give their people money, the people say they are useless. So I guess you cannot blame them 100 per cent too. This is because the financial burden on a representative or a senator is huge. But, if we can have a good government that can somehow turn this economy around, the burden will reduce. We have to sit down and decide what we are going to do about the Naira. We have to call a national summit.

And the sharing continues. . .

SMH @ isakole politics.

“I came out for this position and they (some members) are telling me that your son is interested in the seat” He said it was true his son was interested. I asked, “What are we going to do now?” He said, “Well you can go for a seat in the House of Assembly or you can wait for an appointment.” I said to myself, “Why can’t you tell your son to go to the Assembly? And why can’t you tell your son to wait for an appointment? The fact is that I am older than your son.” That was what I was saying in my heart because I could not be arguing with Akinrogun (Osoba). [b]He is older than me and I have to respect him.In my heart, I said, “I have more experience in politics than your son. I have been part of Buhari’s campaign team in the past. Apart from that, I have been married for over a decade or so. Your son is not even married. So, why should I step down for him. The Electoral Act states that there should be primaries.”

As long as we continue to mix our cultural socio-political ideas with oyinbo western democracy, we won't even scratch the surface of our political problems.

Lekan believes the older guy should be respected, his word accepted and his interest should go above that of the younger guy, yet he wants democracy? Osoba is also using that same belief to push his own agenda.

That is the same reason why constituents believe senators should give them cash looted from the public treasury.

Our people are disconnected and confused about the workings of a western styled democratic and economic system. The politician too are confused.

Mixing up oyinbo socio-political philosophy with ours is at the root of our problems. We are a confused people, and it won't end until we get sincere and address our confusing psychological issues on a national scale. We need a cultural revolution people.

IMO, We cannot be both oyinbo and Africans at the same time and succeed. We have to choose one philosophy and make it paramount.

^kai, he died by the sword eventually, just because of BMW?

SMH

fstranger3:
^^^

I think you are jumping the gun

We are not there yet, lets do it gradually

Yes, he needs a statehouse that gets along with him, not one antagonistic to his ideas for the sake of it

Even, in the world's biggest democracy, Obama, if given the choice, would prefer a congress with more democrats as the majority, not less

It is not lazy politics, it is the best politics for the people.

Of course every politician will prefer to have their own loyal supporters in elective posts, that is the easy way out.

I will argue it's not necessarily good for the people or for democracy. no?

That your own folks did not get selected is still not a good reason to dump your party, especially when you are a beneficiary of the same selection process, (I'm not in support of the whole selection thing BTW).

At the end of the day, The needs of the people in a democracy should be paramount.

As an executive(President, governor) The power to influence and inspire even your opponents is one of the best assets you can bring to the office IMO.

Amosun does not need a state full of ready made elected officers to get his job done. At least his commissioners are his to hire and fire, right?

I Voted 73 times for that fine Naija gal!!

Wetin dey worry Oyinbo sef? dem dey craze?! Snow no dey tire dem ni?

Silly ACN selection aside, what was Amosun expecting though? a pool of his yes-mens in elective posts?

So he wants all the Assemblymen in his corner or what? why are these politicians so lazy?

If all elected politicians are loyal to you, who will challenge you when you go astray?

This is just lazy politics. . .

dayokanu:
Igba ti mo n dagba awon orin juju, Ijinle Fuji and Apala ni mo man gbo. Pelu awon ere Fadeyi, Jimoh Aliu, Koto Orun Ajileye ati Feyikogbon

Stranger ki riran losan balubalu n ti tafin.  Wa ro wipe gugus ni on ri, O ni mo igba ti wa yo oko ti Sagamite  

ROFL

O ga o! Elaa ro wa o.

Hmm

Ha! Ofo niyen o! Suuru lo gba o!

This is it! The time for our salvation has arrived!

Aare Musiwa! Akinkanju Oni map, the conqueror of Benin Empire!

Please lead your people!!

Katsumoto:
Times change; I remember when Mubarak entered the stadium during the nations cup in 2006 and the whole stadium erupted in adulation. Now fast-forward to 2008 and the start of the recession; with the largest population in the arab world and the lowest oil reserves, Mubarak was always going to find it difficult to stimulate the economy. Similarly, no one had a problem with Ben Ali until the recession meant fewer jobs for the young men.

Libya, on the other hand, has good oil reserves for its 6 million people and it has one of the best welfare programmes in the arab world. Now if the price per barrel of oil were to drop below £30, then Libya would have lower revenues and will struggle to maintain such welfare programmes. In such a scenario, the people will take to the streets. Arabs are not as patient as sub-saharan africans.

I agree. Nothing secures a dictatorial regime than a good "settlement" structure. Our own dictatorial cabal seem to have perfected that in Nigeria. Bribe the right people with oil money or bribe the whole population with controlled welfare, it's all the same tactics.

But some analysts believe this revolution worked because of the increasing wealth of the egyptian middle class. They may have a point, but I think it was propelled by the relative free flow of information, the information age blindsided Mubarak's regime.

Dictators need to up their game and take some IT awareness classes.

It's hard to fight cyber-warriors with diesel powered tanks. It's amazing how much electricity they had on in Tahrir square all through the crisis. I trust Abacha sha, he for don off that light  

^^ Oga DK, e ku laakaye

30 years of brutal dictatorship, 17 days of focused purposeful resistance!!

Isale, ok I'm not sure about those accent softwares, someone should make it. It will be very useful.

Yes I need to pop some bottle for the revolution, Interesting times, i'm happy for egyptians.

fstranger3:
How do you restore order without the Military?

At this point, for the short term, I think Militray rule is the best option, No?

Maybe they could have appointed a civilian ruling council comprised of respected egyptians, but I can understand how hard it will be for a brutal dictator to do that, too many folks waiting to settle 30 year old scores, so maybe you are right.

But there is something ominous about military + political power, dangerous combo.