₦airaland Forum

Hey!

Algerian:
Hi!

You're welcome!

What I disagreed with is when you said that religion is a choice "rooted in the close affinity they (people) have for what they believe is theirs, just like you have for Islam so I respect that.", clearing from the way any spiritual progress that transcends the individual conditions. To say it differently, being this or that to seek some glory or to stand against some imaginary or real oppressors (ego) is nothing like being it because it resolves the questions : why are we here and where are we heading to?, questions that can't be answered without leaving aside that individual ego.

I wasn't talking about Uthman Dan Fodio but about someone earlier than that, about Abu Bakr ibn Umar Lamtuni, one of the founders of the Almoravid dynasty (1040-1147) that made it to Nigeria according to some records.

Finally, I don't know if I was somehow clumsy talking about how my people view darker skin people, but to show you how it's really difficult to tell I remember that I argued once with a friend (Algerian "white" too, who lived in a town 30km distant from mine) about  if there's actually any racism in Algeria against black people, and we totally disagreed on that! I think that the best answer that I should gave is that's unfortunately a non-issue for most people there even for the black Algerians and I'm pretty sure that you'll never find any Algerian saying that he will be glad to kill black people as it was said right here about Arabs/North Africans, 

Great!

First, I do not recollect anyone saying they will be glad to kill Arabs/North Africans. I must have missed it. So many conversations going on here earlier. I do not support that kind of racial violence talk. Not at all, except in self defense. Sorry if you read that here bro, you know how silly people get on the Internet sometimes.

Thanks for the added info on Abu Bakr Lamtuni. Ive actually read a bit about him, the early Islamic incursion into the southern Sahara and of course Nigeria and their influence on Present day Nothern Nigeria. Intriguing history. But ultimately I'll prefer to listen or read a conversation between an indigenous Hausa/Kanuri and yourself about the impact of that Early Jihad and the effects on their culture, language, Social norms and religion.

As per Religion. I understand you. Not everyone picks a religion by choice, yes, but at some point we all make a choice to believe in whatever faith we want. The practice of it may now be viewed as a progression of faith in the spiritual sense with little consideration for personal earthly choices.

In essence, some of my people were born into the religion of their ancestors, they have their own God and their own belief, different from Christianity or Islam. While I don't think majority of those who pursue the vocation of their faith do so in protest against some perceived "oppressors" based on "ego" I'm sure there may be a few who do that. Especially those born outside the continent with no prior knowledge about Our religion. But it's their choice and I wish them well in their faith.

It's like a man converting back to Islam after studying about it, that happens also. So on the philosophical point about choice, I get your point. I believe choice is still a factor though, especially for converts and adults, we can agree to disagree on that little point.

Interesting insight about the conversation with your Algerian friend. Hopefully I will get an opportunity to learn more about the different cultural attitudes.

I'm sure the first light skinned explorers in my part of Africa were viewed as different and maybe inferior at some point, I'm certain there are still people who hold that view as wrong and ignorant as it is, It's still an human reaction. acting on it to limit peoples access to basic fairness and dignity is where sensible people disagree.

Becomrichn:
tpiah! , nigeria law allowed for many wives.   there is no law that support first lady in nigeria,  but law support many wives.

I can have 10 wives as president. tpiah!  why. I am a yoruba man. Obasanjo had many wives. the others all have many wives. we tend to love women , were we come from , we are not gay.

As a yoruba man , if you dont have many wives, people think you have problem. with your thing.

Agba Akin!! E pe fun wa!!

fstranger3:
You should have known Kobo by now.

She is a blind hater of everything Black!

Haha onijongbon! I don hear.

@Kobo, Sorry, I thought "f" meant female on NL

Also my questions were already answered, so i'm satisfied for now. And I believe I already responded to your post up there.

Kobojunkie:
Well . . . good for you!

P.S  -- I am not a lady!

Fine. Thank you Madam.

Kobojunkie:
Yeah, like you can do anything about that one NOW, since it has been happening for well over a thousand years.

No lady Kobo, I can't do anything about it. I'm totally inferior to white and lighter skinned people, also I readily submit myself to their attacks and discrimination. It gives me a high when they mistreat and abuse me to my face. I very much enjoy their condescension and I'm always willing to cower in their presence and ensure my children do the same.

Algerian:
I mean this one is my last:

@ Kilode:

Yes, I'm Berber, Kabyl more precisely which is the biggest "sub-tribe" of Berbers in Algeria.
About Islam, as you can imagine, I totally disagree with what you said : A religion is much more of a serious matter than a mere choice or a trend. That's another debate but for the records keep in mind that North Africa has almost never been under the rule of central Islamic state and the Islamic local states were almost always berber or "Black" (The almighty Almoravide state that ruled on West, North Africa and  Andalusia started in Senegal by locals. It's the preacher/founder of this particular state who made part of Nigerians muslims).

By white I mean that I have a reddish/blond beard and green brown eyes.

The traditional Berber culture is a tribal culture where the guy of the next tribe is a total stranger even if he looked like you and spoke your language, so black people were no exception even if the "adoption" mechanisms were a lot easier than nowadays. Now if it's about racism in the modern sense, I think (I'm not sure) that it is more present now than before, unfortunately (black people were associated in the popular mind of many to the brutal French Legionaire).

My mother speaks berber, arabic and french (the last two since she went to school) but some special type of arabic and french lol

Voilà!

Thanks for responding bro.

First, maybe you misspoke earlier, you spoke about faith and religion and said "you are what you choose to be" you explained why you are now with your brothers in faith. I agreed when I responded.

So I don't understand where we disagree again. I have your full quote below (bolded) I don't care about your religion bro. I bet you don't care about mine. Except you want to worship Sango and serve Ifa and the Orisas, Then I'll welcome you.

glad you responded on the color thing, ok so you are North Africa "white", I get the picture now.

Als to Uthman Dan fodio,( im sure hes the one you were trying to refer to as a founder in Northern Nigeria, no? ) I'll leave that to the Hausas and Kanuris that were subdued by him and his Empire to speak about that.

Ok I have an idea of how your people view darker skinned people now. I'll continue the conversation elsewhere, when i meet another Algerian. Thank you.

Algerian:
Personnally, I don't care about the 3rd term issue. I think that a good leader should be able to stay as long as he's the best in the place (which Bouteflika isn't, but well can't blame him for that).
Before Islam and "arabization" (the last being very recent in our national history), I wasn't there   Well, more seriousely, I'd say that Islam brought a wonderful idea : You're what you chooe to be not what you happen to be, so I keep respect for my forefather but I feel closer to my brothers in faith in the first place.

sage:
The Barbary slave trade took place a few hundred years ago during the same time as the Trans-Atlantic slave thread up until the 1800's. It is a very recent event and does not have much to do with what we are talking about.

The "white" berbers are African and this is proven by science. their attitude towards "black" Africans is of no relevance to science

Ok, I asked for the time-period clarification because you mentioned it.

Now, I personally don't care what Berbers, Touregs or any group call themselves. I don't own Africa and I don't own culture. But my dignity, respect and personal liberty is mine to protect. So if someone, group of people, race, or whatever sees my skin color as inferior and acts towards me based on that feeling of superiority, then I'll have an issue regardless what science, politics or geography calls them. I don't even care if we share the same mother. It's all the same to me.

That was the basis of my worry from my first post on this thread.

I was worried that using Dark skinned mercenaries(from the pics and comments on the report) might lead to race/color based attacks or discrimination as it often occurs in the Arab world where dark skinned people are historically and culturally seen and treated as inferior.

I don't care if Berbers are from Fernando po or my mothers village. Do they see dark skinned folks as inferior? If they do? Then I'm on their case everywhere and watching out for them. That's all

sage:
There has been "sub-saharan" and european inputs

However, the majority of Berber genetic markers are indiginous to North Africa and is not Europeans at all

By the way, the Barbary slave trade was a very recent event actually

I think you and Rossike are saying the same thing if y'all can just calm down and resist the urge to insult.

If a Berber and a white european mate together, won't their offspring have genetic markers from both groups? Just asking for clarification purposes.

How recent is the Barbary slave trade, say compared to transatlantic slave trade?

^Algerian I'll appreciate if you can answer my questions, you don't have to leave because you disagree with their opinion. You joined this site to express yours too. So ignore what you can't deal with and let's learn from what you know. Thanks

Algerian:
@ Beaf:
I'm not a big fan of the Algerian President, but I'm quite happy that the protests didn't succeed (and they did so  'cause people didn't want to march with the kind of guys planed them). Long story,
Talkin' about Security Council, a guy from an important NGO claimed in Al Jazeera that there will be a resolution in the next 48h. Wait and see.

@ Rossike:

Sorry mate, I've checked in the mirror : I'm definitely white and my mother hardly talks arabic (not to mention the grand parents)  

@ Kilode :

Personnally, I don't care about the 3rd term issue. I think that a good leader should be able to stay as long as he's the best in the place (which Bouteflika isn't, but well can't blame him for that).
Before Islam and "arabization" (the last being very recent in our national history), I wasn't there   Well, more seriousely, I'd say that Islam brought a wonderful idea : You're what you chooe to be not what you happen to be, so I keep respect for my forefather but I feel closer to my brothers in faith in the first place.

@ Sage:

Cheers, wonderful reply, I've nothing to add  

Good point about Bouteflika. I take it you are Muslim and fine with Islam, that's ok.

Some of my people chose to depart from colonial religion and Invader religion like Islam and Christianity. It's a choice rooted in the close affinity they have for what they believe is theirs, just like you have for Islam so I respect that.

Now when you say you are "white" do you mean white like western Europeans or just Berber and Toureg "white" ?

Also since you are "white" how do you view dark-skinned Africans in your culture? not in Islam or you personally, I mean your Berber Culture(I'm assuming you have an understanding of original Berber culture before Arabs).

Also what language does your mother speak? Berber? French? Since you said she hardly speaks Arabic.

If you don't have an answer to some of my questions it's fine, I'm just asking for curious academic reasons.

Algerian, Sorry, I'm assuming you are Berber, just to keep it simple. If you are not just replace Berber with your original non-Arab ethnicity and attempt an answer. Thanks.

sage:
Arabic is not the mother tounge of Ethnic groups in North Africa like Kabyles, Riffs etc


many people on the African continent dont even know the full history of the continent.

Thank you. I knew that, but let him speak for himself. He's said he's Algerian.

Also most people in Africa lost control of their culture a long time ago, can't blame them for not knowing. Their culture was forcefully relegated to the background by invaders.

@Algerian, what do you think about Bouteflika and his 3rd term in office?

You said Arabic is not your mother tongue, What about your culture before Islam and Arabnization? And which one do you prefer?

fstranger3:
http://www.ogedengbe.com/index2.html

Agbogungboro niyen! Ajanaku! Okunrin Ogun!

I travelled by and saw those rolling green Efon Alaaye hills recently. Beautiful countryside I tell you! Especially those misty hills before the Esa oke junction. I'll camp on those hills if they can get a good resort up there. Four season kinda look

But Folks are right, they need good roads, water and electricity first.

^^More reason why they should be condemning him harshly like they often do with others. Anyway like I said. This is really not their fight. The people of Libya are taking their own fate into their hands I admire that.

^^No mind them. If this was Iran where they don't have influence Obama and his airheaded loudmouths would've been on TV and in the UN screaming and condemning. Since it's Libya and now friendly Ghaddafi, cat don catch their tongue.

All they could manage was a weak plea and repeat of Ghaddafis claim of possible civil war. I can't blame America though, they protect their national interests. I just which we do the same in Africa.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0211/ExLibyan_Ambassador_calls_for_stronger_Obama_statement.html


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703610604576158733370710592.html

^^It can enhance it though, that is my worry.

@beaf this is the same worry I was expressing on the other Ghaddafi thread. The moment I saw the "Black African mercenaries" phrase my mind went to the possible "racial" or color impact.

I know some Nigerians try hard not to view things from a color angle, that's fine, but we can't just wish peoples dangerous stereotypes away. Especially in societies where you historically and culturally suffer disdain because of your skin tone.

I don't know if these people are Nigerians or Nigeriens or whatever. But I'm afraid for dark-skinned people caught up in the Arab world through history, lineage or recent migration. Whichever way this crisis shifts, this is more bad news for them IMO.

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=608753.msg7776184#msg7776184 date=1298329520]Heh, my bad. Should have used a cocoa example. Hrm, I'm actually not sure why cocoa farming died in the SW. I need to read up and learn what caused it.[/quote]Funny there was a show/report on NTA yesterday about our declining cocoa production. It was very sad to watch.

They went to those SW villages around the Ondo/Idanre/Akure axis to interview the cocoa farmers. The running theme was that their kids abandoned the farm for the cities, Lagos and corporate jobs.

Those old men still produce Tonnes of Cocoa aided by their wives and a few old labour hands and some young kids-mostly grand kids- from what I saw. But we seriously lag behind Ivory Coast and Ghana, I've come across stats placing us in 4th place behind Indonesia!

The few young men they interviewed in the report were cocoa buyers/exporters. They also spoke with the Ondo Gov. Mimiko, he acknowledge the decline too, talked about fertilizer subsidy and all. I'm not sure that's the real issue though. The decline is shameful. Hard to imagine that Cocoa was feeding Nigeria especially the SW before we found oil.

^Ok.

Subscribing for season 3 of "The Wind Wey No Dey Tire To Blow"

You are not lying at all. I just hope we will take advantage of the windfall. I'm not confident about that.

Bloomberg has a similar report out today on the effects of the mid-east crisis with crude topping $103

Nigeria will have herself to blame, if we do not take advantage.

^^ Yes. No wahala, you can add Ogun State to it. That was more of an omission. SW states have the Kolanut thing down.

Like I pointed out earlier, It's not set in stone. I was simply guessing why the PPP compared to some other states might be due to cash crop production in Osun.

Moremi of NL!

Obinrin bi Okunrin

in mo ku ojo Ibi o. . .

Aseyi Samodun!

^^ Yes he's Yoruba as far as I know. Except my mind is playing tricks on me I believe I've come across Candido Esan Da Rocha's picture in an History book before.

These Links provide some futher info into their family history for those interested. Sunmi Smart Cole called him Nigeria's first Pound Sterling/Naira Millionaire 

http://photonews.sunmismartcole.com/?p=61


This is a 1987 NYT story on him;


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE6DD1F30F935A15750C0A961948260

Where are all those Isale Eko people on NL to give us more info this "Black History" Month?

oops! everyday is Black History day in Naija

scholes0:
How reliable are the figures posted above, Because according to it, Income per head in Anambra state is lower that that of a state like Osun, Which I find funny, ?

It may seem surprising, but I'm guessing Agriculture might be a huge factor.

Folks who stay back in those SW villages are heavily invested in cash crop agriculture rather than in trading like we have in parts of the SE. not sure how it factors exactly.

Kolanut in Oyo and large parts of Osun and Ondo practically feed the Kolanut needs of the North and across Nigeria.

Cocoa export in Ondo(largest Nigerian producer), Osun, Ekiti, Ogun.

Timber/wood export around the Ondo and Edo/Delta-Sapele Axis and in parts of the South East too.

I'm not sure how much of the informal sector and Agriculture eku's stat took into consideration. I will check better when I get a minute.

It's a shame to us all really. SE, SW, NE, NC, SS,  NW. The potential is there but as Eku, Missy and the OP pointed out, it's just concentrated in very few places.

Beaf:
Any steps toward rebirth must be ordered, the chasms across the country must first be bridged, so that a Zamfara man has powerful bonds that are natural with a Bayelsa man.

+1

ROSSIKE:
Absolutely. I would even take that to encompass all of black Africa. Look, the Arab world has a common language and religion which serve as a natural bonding factor. Europe has a common religion. Asia has Confucianism. Africa needs a whole new ideology that binds the people, whatever part of the continent they dwell. Pan Africanists need to evolve, name, and promote a powerful ideology that will serve as such a binding element.

+1

There is hope for my people afterall. . .

[quote author=isale_gan2 link=topic=590933.msg7769643#msg7769643 date=1298251853]What you need to do is to read the poem and put forth your own review.  Come on now, Oga Kilode.  We have posters with contrasting opinions here, so you have to break the tie.  No one more worthy, heh?  [/quote]Hmm, competent folks already reviwed it now? I'm not a professional, just a consumer, but I'll offer a short review of each Stanza.

Stanza 1 = Romantic believe-it-at-your-own-risk Toasting.

Stanza 2= Brute force, reverse psychology, fire and brimstone Toasting

Stanza 3= Kinda X-rated. Trying to seduce her with "mo.jo" images Toasting

Conclusion=  Dude is a master(a lil confused) manipulator, I approve his message.

Why're you trying to marry me off?  This is the 3rd  or 4th candidate in less than 2 months you've championed. Or don't you remember?!  Are you getting a finders fee?

Keep bringing the business! I'm an Alarena, I tell you, they pay very well

So, when I carry my business go elsewhere, you'll come with?  I can count on you to give me ample feedback, yay!  Shame I have no plans for such at the moment.

Yea write a blog. I will visit, very easy to start but hard to maintain I heard.

Beaf:
I'm sure the US caused Gaddafi's madness too. Its a madness that has made him employ machine guns and heavy artillery against civilians. What sort of demon does that?
Where do they find these funny conspiracy theorists like cap28?

This is the picture of a mad man. No further evidence needed.

Thank you my bro! I couldn't have said it better. My Afrocentrist Brothers get on my nerves sometimes with their support for Ghaddafi and other foo.lish leaders.

Supporting Africa while calling out hateful tyrannical African leaders should not be mutually exclusive.

It is OK to condemn the west and speak about their manipulations and the havoc they've wrecked from Casablanca to Conakry. But to excuse despotic fo.ols like Ghaddafi is just unacceptable.

BTW, I consider Ghaddafi an Arab. I don't care how many AU meeting he attends. Arabs like Ghaddafi are as guilty as western imperialists when it comes to their racist attitude towards Black Africa.

And flying in Black African mercenaries will just further whip up those silly racist sentiments in Libya IMO.

[quote author=isale_gan2 link=topic=590933.msg7768713#msg7768713 date=1298235544]Ask him what he did to upset a certain poster so much she erased her posts from this thread.   I guess I, and my thread, are guilty by association.  [/quote]Na wa o

Isale so you like poetry too? Oga Katsumoto is lucky o.

BTW this thread is now a full blog within NL, all you need now is google adsense revenue. . .

fstranger3:
^^^

Kokoro jobijobi

hahaha tani kokoro to tun n jefo?

AjanleKoko:
Guys, you miss the point there. And I was expecting those responses.

First, it was lunchtime. I've never worked in the UK or US or wherever you guys are at, but really, do CEOs go around over there at lunchtime looking for people sleeping in odd corners? You guys tell me.

Secondly. . . and this is the point, really . . . There is what is called 'cultural adaptation' in business. Even in business schools they teach about various cultures, and how this affects doing business in these cultures. One usual case study is the Middle East. Execs working in the Middle East are usually appraised about the culture of the Arabs, and how to factor this into the daily operational life. I've attended an AMP where we had this case study about a German chap who was a CEO in Syria, and he didn't particularly find exciting the Arab way of work (they generally spend the first hour of work socializing) and he instituted a no-frills, typically German policy of work, work and work. Surprisingly he ended up creating an atmosphere of general apathy and hostility among the Arab workers, the overall productivity declined, and he was eventually replaced by his parent company.

Now do not get me wrong, I am not condoning laziness. . . but do we not have a right to demand cultural adaptation from foreign execs working in Nigeria? Or is the Nigerian society so crass and silly that we must always get the overseer-slave treatment in our country? If they have a particular work ethic in the UK, you are bound to adapt to it. You can't transplant the UK corporate environment tradition and impose it upon Nigerians. That they have a stronger work ethic in the developed societies is moot in my view. My visits to Europe (the UK in particular) and the US have me stumped, seeing crowds in the mall at 10 O clock in the morning, generally shopping, strolling around, etc etc, all year round. We actually don't see that in Nigeria. Also, if I use the general work attitude of Oyinbos in Nigeria to gauge their race, I might want to say they seem lazier, and even a lot less intelligent (the German chap even affirmed that in his email!) except we have some 'lazy gas' in the atmosphere that affects them once they step off the plane.

All in, I felt it was unnecessary to fire the old lady, it was culturally insensitive and smacks of the disdain white people hold for blacks. I've worked in an Middle East organization with a lot of European and American execs, and you could see the deference they had for Arabs who were even their subordinates, some sort of ridiculous backside-kissing just cos they never were sure which sheik the employee was related to! These same guys are always taking some silly moral high ground when they are in African nations, while under the table you would collapse in shock when you find out the inordinate levels of profligiacy and unclothed corruption these Oyinbos engage in, corruption usually engineered and executed by them. When they want to execute their dirty contracts, they either railroad all Nigerian execs to comply, or shut them out entirely. And we believe these guys are saints? Please.

It's the general hypocrisy of our situation that has made me take this view: I as a person, do not consider myself morally, intellectually, or physiologically inferior to any other race just because I am African, and I won't jettison who I am, where I came from, and the ways and manners of my people just because some lighter-skinned person said something to that effect. In all the races, it's always the Africa who's the , the one the others must treat with disdain, the one people like Lugard, Hitler, and even Osama has some disgusting classification for. I wonder how we can ever believe in ourselves and rise to the occasion when we are reminded everyday about how we should be classified as animals, such that 98% of us have full buy in to that thinking.

Apologies for the long post.
Peace.

Ha! This is the kind of mentality I expect from those who lead our people.

I can't wait for the opportunity to help get minds like these into political leadership positions.

Brilliant!

Sagamite:
This will never work on me.

https://www.yourvillageidiot.com/eicons/animated_07/benny_hinn.gif

I reject it in the name of Obantala!

You want £2000 to add to your private jet budget? 

Ha! This so wrong

How ordinary man go dey beat Agbalagbas like this?

Correct Orisa dey dia dem no go follow am, see as this man dey whip Agbalagbas with jacket