₦airaland Forum

33 hours of sleep? Person go get up go pee at least? Ordinary staying up for 13 hours, everywhere don begin dey do me like person wey dey intoxicated. The thought of staying awake for 72 hours straight is a nightmarish thought for me.

QuinQ:
➜Thank you, not only that, EVERYONE calls it persecution as in below. Mr ... cannot be the only one right while everyone else is wrong!

I am not everyone, and I am not easily fooled by the many religious spins— clearly political propaganda, and attempts made to rewrite history itself— that have been pushed out there for so long on events.

broIZ:
I guess it all depends on whether you personally believe the fundamental human right should be superior to the national law. Or even if any human has any innate fundamental right to begin with.

These are 21st-century ideas you are spewing, abeg!

QuinQ:
➜This guy! Can't you understand that anything can be made illegal??
➜ The illegality or legality is NOT what makes persecution!.
➜ If they pass a law you can't practice your religion, that's persecution despite it's against the law!

1. Nonsense!

2. The legal codes in Rome were not easily cooked up like what you have today in Nigeria.

3. The law was in place before Paul and Silas showed up in Philippi. There was no persecution.

QuinQ:
➜Now we're finally getting somewhere. Now if even Christ was crucified for his beliefs how much more the apostles?
➜ Do you now accept they were indeed persecuted right from the begining

Try to stay on track! Recall instead that the argument has been that Jesus Christ of Israel and His disciples were persecuted, not by Rome, but by their fellow Jews.

2. You seem to have lost track of your argument if you indeed asking me this. 😂😂😂😂

QuinQ:
➜Oga, it was illegal to advocate any religion that runs counter to Rome! ➜That's also why even Christ himself was crucified!

Unlawful customs were against the law, and so it was not persecution.

2. Jesus Christ of Israel was not crucified for that purpose at all. Rather, the high priest and his gang fabricated lies against Jesus Christ of Israel, and then handed Him over to Rome as one who sought to usurp the Jewish throne. Pilate and Herod did not find Jesus Christ guilty of the crimes leveled against Him and deserving of the death penalty.

13 Pilate called all the people together with the leading priests and the Jewish leaders.
14 He said to them, “You brought this man to me. You said he was trying to change the people. But I judged him before you all and have not found him guilty of the things you say he has done.
15 Herod didn’t find him guilty either. He sent him back to us. Look, he has done nothing bad enough for the death penalty.
16 So, after I punish him a little, I will let him go free.”
17
18 But they all shouted, “Kill him! Let Barabbas go free!”
19 (Barabbas was a man who was in jail for starting a riot in the city and for murder.)
20 Pilate wanted to let Jesus go free. So again Pilate told them that he would let him go.
21 But they shouted again, “Kill him! Kill him on a cross!”
22 A third time Pilate said to the people, “Why? What wrong has he done? He is not guilty. I can find no reason to kill him. So I will let him go free after I punish him a little.”
23 But the people continued to shout. They demanded that Jesus be killed on a cross. Their shouting got so loud that
24 Pilate decided to give them what they wanted.
25 They wanted Barabbas to go free—the one who was in jail for starting a riot and for murder. Pilate let Barabbas go free. And he handed Jesus over to be killed. This is what the people wanted. - Luke 23 vs 13 - 25

With Jesus Christ of Israel, there was no religion. His accusers were the Jews. They simply used Rome to accomplish their hateful acts against Him.

youngEmelex:
Psalm 115: 8
Have you ever wondered why most villages and communities in Africa are idle and full of bushes with zero production? Not even thriving in Agriculture and their mineral resources lie in waste. Even companies sited in such locations fold as quick as possible. Government projects fail, road constructions collapse and sometimes even buildings in such locations are mostly uncompleted. Well, those villages are still so much into idolatry therefore the people and community become as idle as what they worship according to Psalm 115:8. The gods they worship stay in tattered shrine so also are the people so retarded and stay in a dirty environments.

Nonsense deduction! 🙄🙄🙄

QuinQ:
➜The main charge against Christ was that He was king of the Jews
➜and that's what Pilate ask him "Are you you king of the Jews?)

The charges against Jesus Christ of Israel were fabricated by the High Priest and his cohorts though, since Jesus Christ never in fact told them that He was the King of the Jews. However, by claiming to be the Messiah, it means He is the promised Forever King of Israel(Jews included).

2. My mistake! He did say to Pilate that he was right.

QuinQ:
➜That's exactly the point: they were PERSECUTING Christians for their religious beliefs (which were against the Law)!

There was no such thing as persecution of the Christians by the Romans for their religious beliefs at the time of Paul.

QuinQ:
➜Oga you're really dense. Ok, define persecution for us. Were Christians not being punished for breaking the law (practicing Christianity). Does the fact it is against the law now make it no longer persecution?? You ok at all?

I recall asking you a question earlier, which you conveniently refused to answer.

Imagine the unlawful act was preaching on the streets where the law clearly says, "No preaching allowed." If a man ignored the signs and went on to preach anyway, and was arrested for clearly violating legal code, do you conclude that the man was being persecuted as well?

This is really simple!

QuinQ:
➜You keep writing this nonsense when it's right there in your Bible that their crime was Christianity!
➜ Even Jesus himself was accused of trying to supplant Caesar by declaring himself king of the Jews. It was simply ILLEGAL from the beginning to advocate Christianity because it runs counter to accepted Roman practices!!

You should know by now to stop trying to force your ideas between the lines of Scripture. It does not work with me.

2. But Jesus Christ never referred to Himself as the King of the Jews, though. Stop with the incessant attempts to include your delusions in the stories already!

QuinQ:
➜Oga, I really think I'm wasting my time because you're unreachable! Persecution means harassing someone for their beliefs or fior advocating those beliefs. Removing the spirit from the girl was NOT a crime. That's why they didn't accuse them of that! They insread accused them of preaching Christianity which was a crime. If they were not preaching Christianity there would have been nothing to charge them with! Their crime was advocating an alien, disruptive theology!

Is it that you are operating under some delusion that there was religious freedom or tolerance in the Roman Empire or something at the time? There were laws in place to regulate the beliefs of the people, that much is made clear in the passage. You are told that what Paul did was considered unlawful —against the law of the land — yet you continue to blindly argue that it was persecution of some sort. 🙄🙄🙄

QuinQ:
➜I am trying my best not to label you as dense. You see it written in the Bible in black and white!
They could have accused Paul concerning the girl. THEY DIDN'T!! Instead they accused him of PREACHING about Christianity!! How far is that from Christianity being illegal?? Jeez!!

Read the story and stick to what is in fact stated.

16 One day we were going to the place for prayer, and a servant girl met us. She had a spirit in her that gave her the power to tell what would happen in the future. By doing this she earned a lot of money for the men who owned her.
17 She started following Paul and the rest of us around. She kept shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God! They are telling you how you can be saved!”
18 She continued doing this for many days. This bothered Paul, so he turned and said to the spirit, “By the power of Jesus Christ, I command you to come out of her!” Immediately, the spirit came out.
19 When the men who owned the servant girl saw this, they realized that they could no longer use her to make money. So they grabbed Paul and Silas and dragged them to the public square to meet with the authorities.
20 They brought Paul and Silas before the Roman officials and said, “These men are Jews, and they are making trouble in our city.
21 They are telling people to do things that are not right for us as Romans to do.”
22 The whole crowd turned against Paul and Silas. The officials tore the clothes off both men and ordered that they be beaten with rods.
23 They were beaten severely and thrown into jail. The officials told the jailer, “Guard them very carefully!”
24 When the jailer heard this special order, he put Paul and Silas far inside the jail and bound their feet between large blocks of wood. - Acts 16 vs 16-24

What Paul and Silas did was arrested by the men who had lost their slave girl. They accused Paul and Silas of teaching ideas that were unlawful for Romans to do. Clearly, it was not the supposed preaching but the content of what they said that brought about the flogging. So, as long as the content was unlawful, I don't see how it can be construed as persecution by anyone except one is dead set on making an issue of this.

11 We left Troas in a ship and sailed to the island of Samothrace. The next day, we sailed to the city of Neapolis.
12 Then we went to Philippi, a Roman colony and the leading city in that part of Macedonia. - Acts 16 vs 11-12

Another thing to note is that in the verses above, Paul and Silas are said to have arrived in the area only days before and may not have been previously aware of the unlawfulness of disemminating those particular details hence the reason.

QuinQ:
➜Being a Christian was an unlawful act, talkless of preaching it!! That's the meaning of Persecution: being punished for being a Christian because being a Christian was AGAINST THE LAW!!!

Wrong! Again, Paul was not persecuted; the verse you quoted clearly stated that he was arrested for violating legal code and was punished for it.

Also, if you consider the fact that before 70 AD, Nero was accused of unjustly accusing the Jews of the time of crimes, then you realize that the whole idea of Christianity being criminalized in Rome was probably not true during the time before the eventual destruction of Jerusalem and Judah. The supposed criminalization came much, much later, probably towards the end of the second century in Rome.

QuinQ:
➜Stop being DISHONEST!! That's NOT what they were being punished for! It says it clearly what they were being punished for: For ADVOCATING (PREACHING!!!)

They were advocating unlawful customs. If the law is clear that an idea is unlawful, advocating that idea is against the law and hence punishable by the law.

Imagine the unlawful act was preaching on the streets where the law clearly says, "No preaching allowed." If a man ignored the signs and went on to preach anyways, and was arrested for clearly violating legal code, do you conclude that the man was being persecuted as well?

QuinQ:
➜Stop being DISHONEST! It says right there why they were being punished! They were being punished for PREACHING! Here it is:
“These men are Jews, and are throwing our city into an uproar 21 by advocating customs unlawful for us Romans to accept or practice.”

They were punished for breaking the law— unlawful act. Na you post am, and na you come dey call me dishonest for asserting exactly what is stated... how come?

QuinQ:
➜Bros, I hope you are not totally dense. Just being a Christian was against the law, talkless of preaching it. Christianity was illegal, AGAINST THE LAW!!! And you were punished for it, up to execution. That's what persecution means!! jeez!!

Go back through the story to realize what, in fact, happened. Paul cast a demon out of a girl who never asked him to or desired his help. He was arrested by those around the girl who saw him render her of no use to them by his actions on the grounds of causing problems. Read what is, in fact, contained in the book there and stop trying to play the victim card here. There was no mention of his belief or Jesus Christ of Israel or the fact that he was a Jew as the reason for his prosecution and imprisonment.

Persecution is the systematic mistreatment of an individual or group by another individual or group, often based on religious, racial, or political grounds

QuinQ:
➜This discourse is really becoming too ridiculous for me. It is obvious the way Jesus dealt with and spoke to the Samaritan woman he did NOT consider himself also "Jesus of Samaritans (Israel)" only "Jesus of the Jews". He was not in the habit of interacting with them, and refered to them as "you" (you people) who "don't know what you worship but we Jews do". There was a clear "us" and "them" and no inkling of "I was also sent for you"!

It is? I mean Jesus Christ of Israel is written to have stayed two days with the Samaritans, preaching to them in order to fulfil the prophecy that He, the Messiah, would be the one to directly reach out to the Ephraimites.

WOW... you religious folks have your own ideas separate from what is stated in the Scriptures for sure.

QuinQ:
➜You must really feel ashamed writing this. Paul was spreading the gospel!
➜ Says it right there!
➜ That's an unlawful act till Constantine. That is what is called PERSECUTION!!
➜ Read your book of Revelation

1. Ashamed of stating what is clearly stated in the book of Acts? Are you certain you are OK?

2. The passage you quoted does not state that they were persecuted. So, why do you take it on yourself to add that to it?

3. Constantine came in at least 200 after the locking up of Paul and Silas back in Judah. Yes, the government has the power to change laws and sign edicts. And no, that is not what persecution is. If you break the law and are punished for it, you are not persecuted but instead judged and condemned by the law.

4. The book of Revelation says nothing of what you claim.

QuinQ:
➜This is beyond laughable. "All Gentiles are Israelites"! What Nonsense! See below.
➜At least from now on you know not to keep harping "Jesus of Israel" when in actuality if you insist on that, it is "Jesus of Jews"!

I told you earlier that Google is not Scripture and Scripture is not Google. Well, in Genesis 10 vs 2 - 5, you will find the first use of the term Gentile, and the described application.

2 Japheth’s sons were Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras.
3 [/b]Gomer’s sons were Ashkenaz, Riphath, and Togarmah.
[b]4 Javan’s sons were Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.[a]
5 All the people who lived in the area around the Mediterranean Sea came from these sons of Japheth. The people separated and went to different countries according to languages, families, and nations. - Genesis 10 vs 2 - 5

Here's the Orthodox Jewish entry for this.

2 The Bnei Yephet: Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Yavan, and Tuval, and Meshech, and Tiras.
3 And the Bnei Gomer: Ashkenaz, and Riphat, and Togarmah.
4 And the Bnei Yavan: Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
5 By these were the coastlands of the Goyim divided in their lands; every one after his leshon, after their mishpechot, in their Goyim. - Genesis 10 vs 2-5

This is to refer to members of the same family/clan/nation of people.

2. Nonsense! 🙄🙄

Jesus Christ was born a Jew, yes, and Jews are Israelites. And by His own Words, He admitted that He was sent by His Father only to the Lost sheep of Israel, hence making Him Jesus Christ of Israel, not just the Jews.

RealityKings1:
➜Have you seen an Ogogoro sell build an ethanol company before? He made his arguments and they aren't meaningless claims. Op do your best and enroll your children In a private school (if you can go an extra mile to afford it)... It's part of the sacrifice of being a father.

Why should an Ogogoro seller have a need to build an ethanol company, though? A seller is into sales, not manufacturing. So why try to force a narrative that makes no sense whichever way you slice it?

QuinQ:
✓ Is the below (from John 16) not Paul being persecuted? Was it by Jews??
✓ Was it also Jews that banished John to the Island of Patmos and persecuted all other disciples.
--------------------------
20 They brought them before the magistrates and said, “These men are Jews, and are throwing our city into an uproar 21 by advocating customs unlawful for us Romans to accept or practice.”
22 The crowd joined in the attack against Paul and Silas, and the magistrates ordered them to be stripped and beaten with rods. 23 After they had been severely flogged, they were thrown into prison, and the jailer was commanded to guard them carefully. 24 When he received these orders, he put them in the inner cell and fastened their feet in the stocks.

1. If you carefully examine the passage yourself, you will find that both men were instead accused of committing unlawful acts. How does that constitute persecution if their act was deemed to have been against the law at the time?

2. Where is it written that John was banished to the island of Patmos, and by whom?

QuinQ:
➜ The lost sheep of ISRAEL yet Jesus would only deal with fellow Jews (we Jews know what we worship). ➜ Don't you see a non sequitur there??

Wrong!

Again, since Jesus Christ of Israel is confirmed to have also dealt with Samaritans who were not Jews. Therefore, it is erroneous to continue to assert that Jesus Christ of Israel only dealt with Jews. 🫤

2. Please stop confusing yourself in your rush to assert your religion above what is right in front of you. Look at the many errors you continue to make.

QuinQ:
✓ So you even believe the letters of Paul were real yet still saying all this.
✓ Weren't the letters of Paul written to gentile Christian churches?
✓ Wasn't Paul arguing with Peter wether they needed to be circumcised?
✓ Yet you kept saying Christianity was confined to Jews till it was "hijacked"!

Paul was an Israelite, was he not? I don't believe in his letters; rather, I believe he likely wrote those letters of his.

2. The Gentiles are Israelites who were not of Jewish descent. Genesis 10 vs 1 - 5 explains the application of the term.

3. That issue has nothing to do with anything.

4. The term Israelites is not the same as Jews.
⚉ All Jews are Israelites,
⚉ All Gentiles are Israelites
⚉ All Jews are not Gentiles, and all Gentiles are not Jews

The movement that was Jesus Christ of Israel was confined to the Israelites(of both Jewish and Gentile roots) by the person of Jesus Christ of Israel. The attempted hijacking was carried out by non-Israelites(mostly of Roman descent) and resulted in the creation of the religion of Christianity, which you have today.

Again, Stop confusing yourself, please.

QuinQ:
➜Isn't that the lost sheep of ISRAEL you keep harping about?? Yet Jesus would have nothing to do with her.
➜ Notice what she said to Jesus "you are a JEW" NOT "Israelite"! Then she was surprised Jesus spoke to her (a fellow Israelite o - the quintessential lost sheep of Israel!)

Again, the term "Lost sheep of Israel" is clearly explained in Ezekiel 34 vs 1 - 31.

2. Yes, Jesus Christ of Israel was a Jew — He was born of the blood of Judah. (Jews are a subset of the Israelite population comprised of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi.). But His Father didn't just send Him to the Jews but to the Lost Sheep of Israel - all 12 tribes of Israel.

Given the general animosity that existed between the Jews and the Samaritans, her shock is not out of place.

QuinQ:
➜😅 I'm sure even you yourself can see you're NOT making sense. First of all you initially said there was no persecution! So, Paul and all his inspired letters were made up by Rome.
➜ Why again exactly?😆
➜ Then Rome was trying to hijack them but couldn't, (you initially said Rome hijacked them o) so they started persecuting them (you said there was no persecution o) but they kept gaining political power (where and how exactly?). Wow!

Paul was persecuted, not by Rome, but by Jews— his own people. That's what his letters say about his persecution. Paul eventually went to Rome because of charges leveled against Him by his Jewish brothers, whom he sought to get away from when he invoked his Roman citizenship.

2. Again, Paul was not persecuted by the Romans nor by Rome but by the Jews. He, to escape their possible stoning of him, invoked the audience of the Roman government to escape the Jews.

3. Well, a successful hijacking would have only been possible if they had been of the correct bloodline. Romans are non-Israelites, and that is the reason why I insist that it was an unsuccessful hijacking, meaning that what the Romans ended up with was not the real thing but a dud— not the Gospel. Since what they had was nothing of the original movement, it follows that even the persecution or tales of them had nothing to do with the original movement.

QuinQ:
➜STOP saying what Christ never said!!!!You can say what is not in the Bible, that's it!!
This is John 4. Note the bolded
13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal .”...
21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

The context of that conversation was well established in the verses following these verses you conveniently pulled out in order to pretend they say something else, though.

1. Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard the report that he was making and baptizing more followers than John.
2 (But really, Jesus himself did not baptize anyone; his followers baptized people for him.)
3 So he left Judea and went back to Galilee.
4 On the way to Galilee, he had to go through the country of Samaria.
5 In Samaria Jesus came to the town called Sychar, which is near the field that Jacob gave to his son Joseph.
6 Jacob’s well was there. Jesus was tired from his long trip, so he sat down beside the well. It was about noon.
7 A Samaritan woman came to the well to get some water, and Jesus said to her, “Please give me a drink.”
8 This happened while his followers were in town buying some food.
9 The woman answered, “I am surprised that you ask me for a drink! You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman!” (Jews have nothing to do with Samaritans.[a])
10 Jesus answered, “You don’t know what God can give you. And you don’t know who I am, the one who asked you for a drink. If you knew, you would have asked me, and I would have given you living water.”
11 The woman said, “Sir, where will you get that living water? The well is very deep, and you have nothing to get water with.
12 Are you greater than our ancestor Jacob? He is the one who gave us this well. He drank from it himself, and his sons and all his animals drank from it too.” - John 4 vs 1 - 12

Samaritans are Israelites, given that they are descended from Joseph.

QuinQ:
➜Instead of confusing yourself, answer a simple question: If there was no persecution and Rome was from the onset out to hijack Christianity WHY would Constantine issue the Edict of Milan of 313 decriminalizing Christianity??

Again, the stories of persecution that took place in Rome were not against the original Israelite movement started by Jesus Christ of Israel, but rather against the non-Israelite-controlled religious movements— there were different factions to them too— that had resulted from the attempted hijacking of the original movement. Basically, the original movement in Jerusalem comprised only Israelites. Some Romans saw this and began creating narratives to insert themselves as part of that original movement. They took on the name Christians, a term originally meant as a derogatory term against the original disciples, and their movement became referred to as Christianity.

Over time, this new group of people— Christians—built up their base and power and became somewhat of a political movement, and there was lots of infighting with groups attacking each other and labeling those who didn't share their ideas heretics. The Roman Empire sought to put them in check, and this resulted in the stories of persecution and killings of Christians we read of today. However, their political power continued to grow, leading to Constantine eventually signing the Edict of Milan and Apollo subsequently making it the official religion of Rome years later.

QuinQ:
➜ You are the one claiming what he NEVER said, NOT me. He obviously severally implied that salvation, initially for Jews, would be thrown open to all believers - which was exactly what subsequently happened!
➜ But he only interacted with Jews. The "lost sheep" of Israel are historically the ten lost tribes out of which only the Samaritans were left. But you saw what he said to the Samaritan woman.
➜ But then he also told her that a time would come when it would no longer be by being a Jew, but by worshipping God in spirit and in truth!
➜ He was obviously refering to a subset not a whole. Read Mathew 30 again.
➜ Also Google meaning of lost tribes of Israel. Jesus only interacted with JEWS
➜ 99% is obviously a figure of speech. But for someone who lived 33 years it is definitely more than that.
➜ Jesus clearly implied salvation would subsequently be thrown open to all believers, and that's exactly what happened

1. Jesus Christ of Israel NEVER said, implied, or insinuated that He came to save mankind. There is no record in Scripture of this ever happening!

2. Wrong! First, there are no 10 lost tribes of Israel. Second, the Lost sheep are not historically those exiled but rather those scattered by God of Israel Himself as explained by Him in the following chapter- Ezekiel 34 vs 1 - 31.

3. Could you please, more specifically, point out the passage from which you obtain this reasoning so I can better respond to your concern?

4. A subset of the Jews or the Israelites who existed during His time, or what do you mean?

5. Since Jesus Christ interacted with Jews — descendants of Judah and Benjamin — along with the Levites and also the Samaritans — descendants of Joseph's sons, Ephraim and Manasseh— it is erroneous to claim that Jesus Christ only interacted with those of the Jewish subset of Israel. Also, Google is not Scripture.

6. He lived 33 years does not imply that it took Him all 33 years to teach the Gospel, though. If you read the Gospels, you will find that His mission to disseminate the Gospel instead began approximately 3.5 years before His death, during which time He gathered to Himself His disciples and began teaching the Gospel to them. So, again, where do you get this idea that the Gospel as revealed is INCOMPLETE, and what makes you think that then gives you the freedom to add whatever ideas you see fit?

7. This never happened since Jesus Christ of Israel restricted Himself solely to that which was allowed by His Father, meaning He could not have done what you claim, which would have been against His own Father, whose Covenant it was that He came to fulfill.

Toymax88:
➜Rebuttal, I heard my opponents (IYA RUKA ologogoro and her AGBENUSO neighbour) saying that the exorbitant fee paid in private schools is a testament that private schools are better than public schools. Well, if she had the opportunity to attend either public or private schools, she won't be selling OGOGORO at her old age. Her parents were so poor to sponsor her education, despite the fact that education was almost FREE when she was growing up.
In summary, with my vast experience as a science teacher in both private and public schools, as an examiner (WAEC and NECO), I can vouch that public school is still the best. During WAEC and NECO accreditations, public school teachers are hired by private school owners to teach and defend some subjects; especially in science. They do HIRE ME, this is because the private school owners can not afford to recruit competent teachers.
Conclusion, with the above points highlighted I hope I have convinced and not confused the audience that public school is far, far, better by far than the private schools.

I am afraid there is little to no truth to these conclusions of yours, given the Nigerian situation. I suggest you stay away from these meaningless claims and focus instead on tackling reality as it presents itself.

infofta:
I have done research on ghost myself.
Ghost do exist.
A ghost is a deceased human without body.
Where do they go after they roam about for sometime? That I couldn't get an answer to.

Here's a simple question. Are you a mind with a body or a body with a mind?