₦airaland Forum

@lady
Let the ball roll if you are up for it lets start from one give your supports lets x ray them. I assure you it will come down to just belief

r ut rying to fight with me for agreeing with you? or is that you don't understand how beliefs can be formulated?
just because it is a belief doesn't mean it is not evident. Afterall people come to believe because they saw. If I tell you that I have one leg, you probably won't believe me, but if I show you you would. Isn't that belief from an evidence?

Or are you of the belief that beliefs can never be from evidence? If not, then why are you trying to show that it all comes down to beliefs, when beliefs, are developed from evidence?

since when did catholics become devout christains? i thought catholics were misguided christains. . . .the only time christains come together is when you tell them there is no god else the spend their entire time fighting and castigating each other . . . david you should be the last person that should be refering to catholics as devout christains . . . .why spend most of your time castigating them for being "misguided" and "lost"

not with catholics. we don't go around fighting anyone, we are always defending our faith. you don't see catholics opening threads to demonize the other christians. we will defend our faith, just because i am defending my faith does not mean i am on the same page as david.

even in his attempts to defend the christian faith he puts his foot in his mouth, and sometimes i like it when you all call him out on it, so i just sit back and watch .

sometimes i have to defend the christian faith from his defense. please don't let david be the measuring stick for christians, abeg o.

some one said that Chemistry has been changed over time as understanding and findings have come underway, so chemistry should be edited and changed when there are new findings, but not the Bible, but why is the bible heavily edited? or has the biblicals god's understanding of the world which he supposedly created increased over time? you claim to be an intellectual and you are quick to shout and show how intelligent you think you are but with the examples you keep throwing around you just keep confirming that you are more deranged and deluded than a know nothing slowpoke. . . . . .

just because the bible has been edited does not mean that it should, so no the Biblical God's understanding of the world which he created has not changed. It's the other way around, man's understanding of the Biblical God has increased. After all God isn't using the Bible, man is. God isn't editing the Bible, man is. So why you would reason that God's understanding changed I don't know, especially since you are the intelligent one.
Anyway, it is sad all the same. So called Christians have changed and edited the Bible to conform to what they want to see, yet they are the ones quick to turn around and call others misguided and lost. They apparently don't realise that the Bible has existed for centuries and didn't come about today. They are so quick to quote from a Bible they do not understand.


Anyway carry on, I'll jump in to defend the faith when you insult it, but when you get on the personal with some people I am not going to defend, cool?

Not if one is a Catholic.
Historically, people were put to death for far less.

and what about today? the point you brought up was about today. there are plenty of catholics at odds with the birth control, none of them have been put to death.

Carlosein:
oh Monica, you make my eyes water with joy.

i thought you were tired and needed to rest so i didn't post on the other thread.

Alan de la Roche was a blessed i.e Blessed Alan de la Roche.

Sts Agnes, Cecilia, Lucy, Agatha (i love this young girl saints-they make me burn with passion )

Oh let your tears overflow a bucket, I will join you in shedding tears of joy, anyone else in the house want to join in shedding tears of joy?

I was tired, and did get some rest, I am about to head to work.
Thanks, I wasn't too sure if he's a saint, so Blessed Alan de la Roche he too preached the rosary unceasingly, anyone who preaches the rosary gladdens my heart, the heart of Our Mother, and most certainly the heart of Our Lord.

One thins I love about the young girl saints, is that I see how things are today with young girls and the little appreciation they have of themselves, and everytime I see one disrespecting herself and not giving herself credit to be able to dismiss the devil, I tell her about these girls. It gladdens my heart, and if I were to meet any today who take it upon themselves to leave everything and follow the Lord, especially in vocations, I will wash her feet like the Lord did his disciples, she is a reminder of Our Blessed Mother. She too was young when she left everything and followed the Lord.

I tell you I love St. Rose of Lima, she did penance so that she wouldn't get caught up in vanity. She was very beautiful, but thought her beauty was for the Lord's alone.

i like st. augustine when he said " God grant me chasity but not now" yea he wants to finish enjoying the good things of life before he signed up

Lol, I know, funny that's why he's one of my favorite saints. Quite frankly I think he is the model for our society. A society that is sex crazed, and doesn't know what to do with itself and decides to pass laws to permit itself and convince itself that if it is lawful it isn't wrong. He is the perfect model for all who think they cannot do without sex. He is the perfect combatant for those who say "bodi no be wood" or "man must ****" or "no one can stay away from having sex" as if sex is an involuntary necessity.

The above passage says nothing about the death of Onesiphorus, it talks about those in Asia who have forsaken Paul while he was in prison in Rome, except for Onesiphorus who had entertained Paul in Ephesus and sought him out when he visited Rome. (See chapter 4:19). In that day that Paul mentioned meant the day of Christ 1Cor. 1:8. Just as saying that as the testimony or gospel of Christ was confirmed among you to attract you to Christ, so He will confirm you through this testimony until the end, that you may be blameless at His coming or in the day when Christ comes to receive saints unto Himself. This has nothing to do with death or purgatory.

I'm not even going to start arguing with you. You must have missed the other verses. Please there are more. The Jews and everyone around the world believe in purgatory. You all are the only ones who don't. They know there is a place for the dead before heaven. I guess the Jews were pagan too.

As for your list, you still haven't added that the Bible was complied in 393 AD abi isn't that one of the heretical things the Church added to Christianity?

Your list also falls short as those dates are not true and the things there are not true, get the webmaster of the site to actually post facts instead of misleading people.

virginity is truly a virtue. it is so much a virtue that God himself preserved a virgin to give birth to him. The womb of a woman is very sacred, God himself sanctified it by being born from it. The devil hates that, so please women, keep in mind that your womb is sacred. Sacred places should not be disrespected.

let him know that.

whoever says that men don't value virgins is a liar, those are the ones they are looking for. my friends who are male talk about how they want a virgin and how they value them.

Carlosein:
@lady,

i just knew you'd come and tear this place up with a list like mine (even more )

did you forget St Francis of Assissi, St Alphonsus Liguori, St. John Chrysostom, St Catherine of Sienna, Bernard of Clairvaux, Bernadette Soubirous etc

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis!!!

(Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us!!!)

WHAT? Me forget? no I no forget, infact make I mention them now o.
St. Franics of Assisi, St. Alphonsus Liguori, St. John Chrysostom, St. Catherine of Sienna, Bernard of Clairvaux, Bernadette Soubirous, oh how could I forget St. Dominic of the Holy Rosary, and Alan de la Roche (not sure if he's a saint), St. Benedict, St Claire, St Rose of Lima, St. Therese of Lisiuex (the little flower), St. Thomas Aquinas, I mean the list goes on. lol. oh yeah can't forget St. Simon Stock for the Brown Scapular, that is my devotion afterall. Can't forget that one Carl.

DavidDylan:
If anyone has found this in his version of the bible please let me know.
thanks

chika98:
It isn't anywhere in the bible so don't pay him/her any attn. Purgatory isn't real.

Olumitide:
Purgatory isn't in the Bible. Chike na.
Purification from what?Inclination to sin where? Pick up a dollar where? The person is already dead. Do people sin after they're dead, or are they waiting for judgement? Why don't you direct your purgatories to men and purify them while they're still on earth,like other Christians at least try to do, instead of holding out a false hope when they're dead and can't do a turnabout if the teaching happens to be wrong. I agree with the poster who says you people should be certain of your doctrines where a man's fate in eternity is concerned.

um first answer chukwudi44's question and then go to the beginning and you will Bible passages that were posted to support the concept of purgatory, if you think those passages do not support the concept of purgatory, then please explain the passages. thanks.

simply stating that it isn't real doesn't make it unreal. muslims state that the trinity isn't real but does that make it unreal? they also argue that trinity isn't found in the bible so does that make it unreal?

please all you have to do is interpret the passages there.

the other ones have run and hid, please don't do the same as them, be of courage and explain the passages.

Carlosein:
always welcome

great!!! even the one you aren't confident about will prolly be okay.

God bless.

thank u. God bless you too

@lady
I loved your reply, you see that's the thing I am saying, you and I can be so convinced about what we believe that we take it to be reality, in fact that is the first definition of certainty - a belief beyond doubt.
The point I try to hammer across on nairaland is that our beliefs can not hold for all unless it has well grounded proof in reality. You had an experience which is personal and strengthened your faith, there a billion others who have not had and may not ever have that revelation are they to just take your word for it?
All that said I appreciate that we have had this discussion.
Take care

If they want to they can, but it is not by force. It is not by force that anyone believe in Christ. I know that Christians hammer in the point that it makes one get defensive from Christians. I get defensive from Christians all the time. But truly it is not by force. But it is enough to get one to believe. For all that have happened over the years, not even counting the shenanigans that modern day pastors put on t.v, there is enough evidence.
But when there is an encounter that involves many people and when there have been scientists, archaeologists, historians, and such that have well researched an area, and have most of the time come to the same conclusion, it is hard for one to not believe several events documented.
When an encounter is experienced by thousands of people at the same time, it is difficult to not believe.
For example the miracle of the sun, the newspaper articles from that encounter is still available today, even with pictures. The writings of those who were there are still available.
the booking for jail of the three shephard children are known to have happened. this is an event where people saw, and atheists believed.
so while it is not compulsory that one believes, a word is still quite enough.

It was great chatting with ya.

Walter Kohn is totally at odds with his Catholic faith and the Vatican on the issue of birth control (a pretty big one, you'd have to agree). He's way more of a theist than a "devout Christian".

no really it's not a pretty big one, and birth control is something that other christians allow, so it is not central to the belief of christianity as we know it.

so this one still stands. one can still be devout and be at odds with the vatican about an issue that is not dogma.

The original authors did not say who they were.

Yes they did.

If you were my disciple and I write a paper and you are fully aware that I wrote the paper, and you teach from that paper or you keep it as my memoir and then before your death, your disciple inherits the paper, do you and your disciple know that I wrote the paper?

Also keep in mind that the Bible may have fully been compiled in 393 AD (I think that's the correct year) but discussions about the books to be included were already taking place in the first century (the apostles were still alive), so these books' authors were already know.

The point I was making about the message and the style of teaching and writings is that those are also determinants of the original authors. Remember I was talking about sacred tradition. As time went on different gospels began to appear such as that of Peter, Mary, and such. But because we know the writings style and teaching style of Peter, we were able to tell which books were imposters and if infact Peter did write a gospel (which more than likely he didn't, we don't have one that is authentically attributed to him).

Like Carl, I don't really have a fav. saint.

I do love first and foremost the Blessed Virgin Mary (o how I love thee Mum)

Of course I can't forget my Saint Monica (my namesake)

I love St. Ignatius of Antioch for his courage and his teachings.

St. Ignatius of Loyola for his austere devotion to God. The Jesuits need a reformation, pray for that.

St. Augustine (my son) and the fact that he went from a playboy to a bishop (hear hear) I also love his writings.

St. Teresa of Avila also

karlie4nia:
sweet!how it gion with y'all carlosein, oby1,lady, larrymc, maykelly, wonderful love and moyola? its been a while since i come on. its all good, where is Lindiwe @?. well, be right back. just want to wish y'all and your loved ones God's protection and kindness this beautiful season of Advent.

by the way moyola whats with the heartslamming thing, that comic just evoked a memory of my ex-love wayback in uni days that really slammed my precious heart on the hard concreate and made me feel devastated.

hello. i noticed that too. i let go of my smashed heart a long tyme ago. no one can smash my heart again.

Carlosein:
now you are invited

thank u.

Carlosein:
always knew you were smart

now go chew on those examiners!

i just took the last exam for the week. i am confident about all but one. anyway i am done. i have one more next week, and i will really be done for the semester. thank u Lord.

what of the old testament? The Italian usurpers who call themselves catholics today wrote and kept them?
Much of the New Testament was written by Jews. It stands to reason many of these people must have kept copies for themselves to preserve

uh hello those are the people that are the church, u know the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church. yes that's right they described themselves as the one, holy, catholic, apostolic church. check our history and u will know or what u think the catholic church started later?
ha oga abeg check history o. the church was founded by christ. the practices they had then is what we have now. for real check history.

the old testament was given to us by the jews. what they had then is what we have now. seriously checking history won't hurt.

Whose tradition? roman catholic tradition? Why are the roma catholics so gungho about essentially Jewish history? why are they the ones now telling Jews what Genesis means?

uh hello the only tradition that there was. i'm talking about the fact that genesis was not written by adam, eve, abraham, isaac, jacob and co. and that you know their stories based on sacred tradition. sacred tradition was not started by the church. it was started by the jews. in case u didn't know christianity is a continuation from judaism. afterall we are a new israel. i'm talking about there was no bible when christ taught, and there was no bible that the apostles taught. jesus christ wasn't in the old testament. you know of him today because of what the church preserved.

if the jews were able to interpret the old testament well to actually what it was saying they would all be christians today. christ was teaching them what they had turned to ordinary tradition without meaning. today they all say that the prophecies wasn't about christ. if we are to go by their interpretations none of us would be christian.

so before you embark on a journey of bashing the church, bcus that's what you do best, you better think first before you stick your foot in your mouth.

now carry on.

Based on what facts? Stay there deluding yourself.

based on the fact that genesis was not written by adam, eve, abraham, jacob, isaac. it was the stories and practices of these people that were handed down (tradition), before moses wrote about them.
based on the fact that the apostles did not have a book on the gospel in hand when they were teaching about christ. they handed down (tradition) what christ taught them.
based on the fact that most of their writings were not written to be scripture, but were so defined by the church, and you hold it in high regards because of the authority of the church, you think it is scripture on the authority of the church.
based on the fact that scripture itself speaks against scripture alone.

STOP THE REDUNDANCY, THAT IS HOW YOU CAN HELP NIGERIA.

WE KEEP DUPLICATING THINGS AND CAUSING CONFUSION.
WHEN WE CAN LEARN NOT TO DUPLICATE THREADS, WE'LL GET THE IDEA OF GETTING OUR NATION TOGETHER.

I know but i had to use an analogy he could comprehend much better.

gotcha.

sacred tradition bla bla bla bla . . . the JEWS kept accurate records and because of them we know those who wrote what. this back-door attempt by Italians who morphed into a religion of fraud to usurp jewish history is pathetic.

So the Jews kept the New Testament?

Oga if anything, you should know that Genesis is sacred tradition. Did Adam, Eve, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Jospeh, and all write what happened to them, did they write Genesis?

The Bible is sacred tradition, stay there deluding yourself.

@lady
Lol your reply made me laugh, after many shots of vodka I hope I can make some sense, My dear I am not overtly concerned about what the message says my own is that the original authors are not and were not known simple

Well then you must have missed my post, the point wasn't about the message. But about how it is we know that these writings truly were those of the credited authors.

lol, this must not be true.

if it is, then that priest should be excommunicated, i don't buy the story.

your chemistry textbook has been edited so many times . . . it has thus become unreliable. Maybe you can stop studying chemistry too

um David sorry o, but this isn't the perfect come back. Chemistry and the Bible are not on the same page o. Chemistry has been changed over time as understanding and findings have come underway, so chemistry should be edited and changed when there are new findings, but not the Bible.

But I do get the point you were trying to make sha.

The Bible has been edited hundreds of times

I said that the Bible shouldn't be edited, not that it hasn't been edited.

no one is trying to misinterpret the bible,you can find all this in the bible.woman can stand to preach her own fellow women, but not to take authority were there are men. About the choir,there are men in the choir,the instrumentalist are men and there are also other men there singing. I don't attend catholic,but i was made to understand that women don't mount the pulpit to preach,except to fellow women or children,so its high time we put things straight.

you didn't state anything about women standing and preaching to other women. I am catholic and I know that women are not to be preachers, but I do know that women do play a very important role in the church, and the way you presented your point you came off condescending to women.
I do stand by my point that women can sing.
Singing is not pastoring. A choir leader is not a pastor.
The choir assists in the church and they are not the ones doing the preaching or prayers.

can you back your post with one or two passages in the bible. you see, the thread started posted one or two passages in the bible to stress point. but you havent.

please don't get me wrong, i believe you have made a valid point. but your comment(s) may be taken lightly without any reference(s)

One does not need to have bible passage when there is common sense. But if I were to present the Bible passage, I would present the one that the poster presented. The passage didn't say that women cannot sing, and that they cannot lead prayers at women's gathering. The passage talks about in a synagogue, or in Church. Simply put women cannot be pastors, but they can be assistants in the Church.

I wanted the poster to stop generalizing as we know there are many scenarios in life. Well the poster became specific.

scottN:
Ever since d Beijing conference, women hv come 2 hv equal opportunities with men. The society of then is different from what we hv now. And let's not forget that it's d society trend that determines religious norms and practice, tho' ur r/ship with God is more of a personal affair. Give d women a chance, they deserve it.

I'm sorry but society does not determine religious norms. Religion should be the measure not society. Religion should determine societies norms

Bastage:
Quote from: Bastage on Yesterday at 11:11:17 PM


Most certainly not by taking everything that is written in the Bible at face value. And definitely not by having Him defined by organised religion and by other men.

There is one thing that I do agree with you on, and that is taking the Bible at face value. And when I say this I don't mean that the Bible is anymore irrelevant. I mean that people do not understand the background of the Bible. If they did, they would understand the Bible even more. The Bible is more than just a book you can open and read that Bible is a culture, a law, a civilization, it is so much more. I started studying the Bible, and when I discovered things about it, it surprisingly didn't kill my faith but made it stronger. Actually if I were to say some of these things to nairalanders some might loose faith. That is the problem, people don't get what the Bible is.
You have to understand the guardian of the Bible in order to understand the Bible, for the Bible was made for the guardian, Israel, not Israel for the Bible.

Scriptures do not make a religion until they are read by men. And that is where the problem occurs.
You say to appreciate the fact that men penned the Bible, but the problem is that once it was penned, to a large degree it became immovable. This meant that errors became dogma. Also, there are so many contradictions, interpretation becomes very, very difficult. Putting the religions to paper means that they aren't flexible and I honestly believe that this is a big failure. I personally prefer the old ways of oral tradition and editing as you go along as with many of the Buddhist and Hindu scripts. Unfortunately, Biblical editing has been very slap-dash and sometimes even compounded errors (not to mention influenced by politics).

On the contrary that is not where the problem occurs, the problem occurs the other way around. When man doesn't care to believe in the way God works and wants to force God to work in the way he thinks God should work. God has shown us many times that the way he wants to work is through what we know and understand. If God were to speak to me in portugese, I wouldn't know what he's saying, therefore God's language is my language.
God's isn't supposed to be immovable, he isn't supposed to be flexible, you may want him that way, but that is not how he works. Man is flexible, but God won't be.
That is why there are dogmas, so that God won't become what man wants him to be, he will be who he is. What you are asking for is a God that moves and thinks like man does. Well this doesn't work so let me try something else. If that is how God works he wouldn't be God. He would be you and me.
You want God to be movable, changeable as time changes, when in fact he is constant in time. Man's understanding of God can change and can get better, but that is not to say that God himself should be changeable and movable.

See this is why I am so thankful for the Church. I am thankful that God promised that the Church would be guided through time by the Holy Spirit into all truth.

No one can just walk up and try to change God into what they think God should be. No one should try to change God to fit the times. Oh this the hip thing and this is how society is being run therefore God's laws should be twirked to accomodate people. It's ridiculous.

By the way, there are no contradictions in the Bible, there are contradictory interpretations though. Don't mistake contradictory interpretations to be contradictions of the Bible.

The Bible shouldn't be edited. So you shouldn't be looking forward to editions here and there.

DavidDylan:
Chris isnt really interested in asking God anything. All he is wants is a "God" who will turn a blind eye to his sins but still guarantee him heaven. That is what he and is ilk mean when they tell you God is wicked.

David unless you wish to tell me that you are mind reader please don't assume that Chris only wants a God who will turn a blind eye to his sins. You can hope, and I can hope that he doesn't want that, but that he truly wants to know God. He may be atheist today, but tomorrow is pregnant.

@ Chris

Thank you. There are many things in my life that have happened that has shaped my life and my belief. I can assure you there is nothing one can say that will change my belief. I really wish I could put it into words for you, I can't make mush sense of it myself, but I can't shake it off, it's like some fuse that just can't be separated. I hope I'm somehow making sense. There is an event in my life in which I encountered God and it is very personal to me. I have never explained my encounter with anyone out there, not even my Priest. Mostly for fear of the human mind, I don't want to tell a story that is not meant for others. You know about the saints in the Church, and you know that a lot of them have memoirs, and that we read them. But the Church warns and states that just because someone had an encounter does not mean that you will have that too. Actually one saint warned that we shouldn't be wanting these encounters, even though they may be proof of our beliefs, and they may help us on the path to holiness. But to be wanting these encounters one may start hallucinating, and start believing in these hallucinations. The devil may even start taunting the mind of such a person, and because this person is desperate he or she will believe anything. If the devil tried to haunt the minds of those who were devout while on earth, how much more will he the mind of those who are desperate to see.

Do you understand what I mean by see? Doubting Thomas had to see too.

I do want you to know, oh believe me I desperately want you to know, I already told you that I am praying for you, I don't know if you remember when I told you that. But I really am.

I cannot tell you what I encountered, all I can tell you is that my encounter involved the rosary.

All I can tell you about God is exactly what Jesus himself said in the Bible

"Because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed. Blessed are they who have not seen, and yet believed." John 20:29

Chris, instead of asking man about God, why don't you ask God himself. You will not believe if man tells you, you will only believe if God tells you. That is what I have observed from the convos I have had with you.

Most certainly not by taking everything that is written in the Bible at face value. And definitely not by having Him defined by organised religion and by other men

You know I keep thinking about this, and I was just pondering. Then looking into the Bible I see that God communicates to us through the way we would understand. If God didn't use nature, man, earth, wind, breeze, whispers, how would we understand him?

If God doesn't use the things we know to explain things to us, how would we get the message?

Everyone wants to condemn man for being used by God and say that unless you listen to Jesus you won't get the message. It's funny but those people are missing the message that Jesus is man. He is God, but fully man too.

I also thought about how God communicated to the Israelites his message, and one thing that came to mind was when the people were challenging Moses and they told him that they want God to speak to them directly. They were kind of jealous that God was using Moses, they wanted to be 'important' too.

So God said ok, He told Moses to gather the people around the Mount but that they couldn't come too close. SO the people gather and God appears as a cloud and all the people could hear were thunder claps, and they got afraid. Immediately they turned to Moses and said he should go to the Mount and that they'll listen to him.

I just thought about that. God has a sense of humor. He does things his way, and quite frankly he uses what man understands to get the message to man. See God wanted the people to trust Moses, God wanted the people to trust his way, and his way is using the things we know to speak to us.

So I don't see why it is we would condemn the Bible because men wrote it, or diminish it because men wrote it or come to conclusions that we won't follow it because men wrote it. Because really you wouldn't know God to follow, if he didn't communicate through man.

You wouldn't understand him if he didn't use what you understand to speak to you. SO instead of looking down on the fact that men penned the Bible, how about you appreciate it. Because that is how you know of salvation.

We're so quick to condemn man because man dared to allow God to use them.

So bastage instead of looking at the Bible as something that man wrote to conform God to himself, why don't you try to appreciate it. Because if man didn't write, you wouldn't know. You are confident in your salvation because man dared to listen to God and let God use him.

all right I got it.

I see you all are having fun. No one invited me eh.

Moyola u three funny. You are welcome.

Wonderful love, you are welcome.

Carl, yeah that's what I mean.

Carlosein:
ok then i believe ya.

I called you out earlier that the authors of the gospels were unknown and you seemed to vanish from that thread.

you may have missed my posts, go back and check.

The ethiopian christians have a bible that is made up of books I am sure you never knew existed, while the church persecuted and burned every other book that seemed to portray Jesus not to be God, so why do you even think the people that choose and

Wait before I get carried away which ethiopian christians are you talking about? The coptics? because we can nip this in the bud immediately. SO just let me know. People are a bit confused on whether the coptic church has a different belief from the Catholic Church, they do not, they're just not in unity with us.

but just so you know the Church is aware that the ethiopian church has manuscripts from early christianity, infact it is there that some of the church's manuscripts were buried. the manuscript on the assumption of mary is located there.

so what you think is true may not be true after all.

christains have failed to tell us why jehova is a better god than allah, buddah or skivanah

christians have failed to tell u why Jehovah is a better God because you don't see the christian God as God. You don't think the Christian God could be God because you already have your own idea of what God should be.

You went on to talk about how the God of the Bible does this and that, you pointed out things that you don't think a god should do.

You expect a god to be so good that anyone should be able to get to heaven, so even if you make a covenant and don't carry your end of it, he should simply say I love you, you don't have to worry.

Well, you have to carry your end of the deal. It is simply called Justice.

Look at it this way.

You have the government and when you choose to live in a certain area you agree to adhere to the rules of that place and pay the taxes and all, well when you don't hold true to your end of the deal what happens? the government will just say oh it's ok you can break the rules, i still love you.
even your parents don't do that. they love you but they won't let you get away with not doing what you're supposed to do.

It is called justice, get over it. And stop using today's standards of punishment to measure the way punishment should have been in the past. The punishment in the past is just what it is, it was meant for those people.

The sabbath still stands today, but how many people have you seen stoned to death for breaking the sabbath law.

i live in an atheist country and is better than most of the godly countries i have ever visited

what is better? finland is better than the U.S. or England? How so?

One could lay the exact same accusation at the door of Christians. You guys want him to be like the deity depicted in the Bible and you use the Bible to define him.

This could be true if most of us actually put the Bible together. I know muslims who became Christians just because they read the Bible. God revealed himself to them, so your statement holds no ground. People come to believe in God by reading the Bible, not by believing in God and then reading the Bible to make him fit.
The Bible is used as a measure of standard, not the other way around. We conform ourselves to fit and not conform God to fit us.
You have conformed God to fit you.

What makes you now think that your monotheistic God is the real deal?

Why should I tell you when you and I already know you won't believe? You are not asking to know, you are asking to refute, no matter what I say you already have it in mind that you have been enlightened and you know the truth and you are reasonable and are trying to get us to be reasonable too. You already have it in mind that no matter what we say it has to be wrong. You don't care to know my view, you only care to advance yours.

If you actually cared to know my views you would not be asking me this question, because we already went through this. It's like it kills you that we're still believing in God, and you are hell bent on making us see things your way.

So you have to explain to me why should bother this time around. I don't care play ring around the rosy. I have already told you why God is real in so many words and so many ways.

And no this isn't me running because we've convos about God for a while and it all boils down to you wanting to believe in God in the first place, and we've gone through that. So it's like you have this itch that hasn't been scratched and will never be scratched by me.

So why should I bother?

Sorry to rain on your own parade but not even you and david can agree as to what hell and heaven is, just ask david if there is purgatory.

oh david and I can agree as to what hell and heaven is, he just doesn't agree that there's a purgatory, and purgatory is neither heaven nor hell.

What you have is just a belief nothing more nothing less, give us evidence to support that there is life after death simple.

And what's wrong with having a belief? Don't you have a belief that there is no life after death? Can you prove that there is no life after death? Can you prove that there is no heaven or hell?
Can you prove your own belief?

Let's look at what the Bible says about women teaching and preaching. i Tim 2:9-15 says: "In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety." Now 1 Cor 14:34-35 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." We see from these two passages that women are to not teach publicly in the the worship. This includes leading in any way like preaching, leading a prayer, leading the singing or taking part of serving the Lord's Supper.

these ones bolded are not included, what if only women are gathered at prayer? should we wait for men to come and lead the prayer and then continue with meeting and then have a man come in again to lead prayer? ridiculous.

Which men do you see in the choir so easily? Women aren't supposed to lead singing? Wow.

pls stop misinterpreting the Bible, thanks.

Women are not to be preachers, but that is not to say that they cannot counsel their children on things of the Lord, it can be mistaken as preaching,

The god of the New Testament happens to have the attributes closest to those I believe my god would have

don't want to rain on your parade, but this is the problem with everyone. we want God to be the way we think he should be, instead of letting him show us how he really is.

People don't have a problem with God, they have a problem with God not being the way they want him to be.
That is the problem with the atheist. They expect God to be a certain way and when they see that he is not that way, they look else where and then they find that there isn't a god that matches their view of what a god should be, so they abandon the concept of god in total and claim that he doesn't exist.

Our problem is that we're busy looking for something that isn't there, instead of letting what is there be revealed to us.