₦airaland Forum

blenble: honestly,i dont knw why dis ppl are not seeing dis!
Lanre did nt deny d fact that worshiping allah is being done in pagans way!
He did nt deny d fact that idol worshipping was incorperated into islam!
And yet this ppl continue in dis Deception!

I just 'like' this mohammed,he backed every thing up with a verse from allah!
May God have mercy and open their eyes to the truth!

Which of my posts did I agree that idol worshipping was incorporated into Islam? I said the pagans of Makkah may also do tawaf between safar and marwar,but we muslims don't do it because of that,we used it to commemorate Hajar,mother of Ismael.....Peace

CAMEROONPRIDE: how do you guys feel like when someone is eating pork in front of you? Do you guys feel like throwing his plate away .etc?

Firstly,you should know pork is totally forbidden in Islam[surah Al-Maidah 5;3,surah Al-Anam 6;145].It's narrated in authentic hadith of prophet muhammed(pbuh)that the Prophet said:If one of you sees something evil he should change it with his hand.If he cannot,he should speak out against it and if he cannot do even that he should at least detest it in his heart,this being the weakest form of faith(Sahih Muslim).
Point number to be noted is that you may not be able change it with your hands in this situation because the person can take it seriously that you throw his favorite food away and may lead to a fight,but at least you can tell the person the effect of eating pork.Pig is a very filthy animal,consuming its meat can cause many diseases like ringworm and many other diseases.There are also other effects of eating pork,if you tell him that and he doesn't agree with your ways,then you should leave him with his pork but detest pork in your heart and Allah knows best.....Peace

pointblank 321: No. Kaaba was not built by his grandpa, it was built by pagans in arabia.

Any authoritative backings?

Muhammed says it was built 40 years prior to the Temple at Jerusalem:
Narrated Abu Dhaar: I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Which mosque was built first?" He replied, "Al-Masjid-ul-Haram." I asked, "Which (was built) next?" He replied, "Al-Masjid-ul-Aqs-a (i.e. Jerusalem)." I asked, "What was the period in between them? He replied, forty years.
Sahih Bukhari 4:55:636

The Temple at Jerusalem was built by Solomon around 958-951 BC. This implies that if Muhammad were to be believed, the Ka’aba must have been built approximately 998-991 BC. But Abraham lived around 2000 BC and both Abraham and Ishmael would have been dead by then.

If Muhammad is correct, then the Qur’an [and therefore Allah] is wrong. But if the Qur’an is correct in stating that Abraham and Ishmael built the Ka’aba,then Muhammad and the sahih hadith is wrong.

The Ka’aba has nothing to do with Abraham or Ishmael. It has a wholly pagan heritage. Egyptian Professor and foremost authority on Arabic literature, Dr. Taha Husayn, said the following:
The case for this episode is very obvious because it is of recent date and came into vogue just before the rise of Islam. Islam exploited it for religious reasons.[1]

The fact that Muhammad considered dismantling it is a fact that it was not built by Abraham as a house of worship.

Narrated Aswad: Ibn Az-Zubair said to me, "Aisha used to tell you secretly a number of things. What did she tell you about the Ka'ba?" I replied, "She told me that once the Prophet said, 'O 'Aisha! Had not your people been still close to the pre-Islamic period of ignorance (infidelity)! I would have dismantled the Ka'ba and would have made two doors in it; one for entrance and the other for exit." Later on Ibn Az-Zubair did the same.
Sahih Bukhari 1:3:128

Muhammad proved quran to be incorrect. Thank you.

According to the Islamic version,Abraham took Ishmael and Hagar and made a new settlement in Makkah, called Paran in the Bible (Genesis 21:21)because of a divine instruction given to Abraham as a part of God's plan.Hagar ran seven times between two hills,Safa and Marwa, looking for water. This is the origin of one of the rituals that is performed during the pilgrimage to Makkah.The well of water mentioned in Genesis 21:19 is still present and is known as called Zamzam.Both Abraham and Ishmael later built the Ka'bah in Makkah. The spot where Abraham used to perform prayers near the Ka'bah is still present and is known as the Maqam Ibrahim, i.e., the Station of Abraham.During the pilgrimage, pilgrims in Makkah and Muslims all over the world commemorate the offering of Abraham and Ishmael by slaughtering cattle.Then Abraham stayed away from them for a period as long as Allah wished, and called on them afterwards.He saw Ishmael under a tree near Zamzam, sharpening his arrows.When he saw Abraham,he rose up to welcome him(and they greeted each other as a father does with his son or a son does with his father). Abraham said, 'O Ishmael! Allah has given me an order.Ishmael said,'Do what your Lord has ordered you to do.'Abraham asked, 'Will you help me?' Ishmael said, 'I will help you.' Abraham said,Allah has ordered me to build a house here,' pointing to a hillock higher than the land surrounding it. " The Prophet added,"Then they raised the foundations of the House (i.e. the Ka'ba). Ishmael brought the stones and Abraham was building and when the walls became high,Ishmael brought this stone and put it for Abraham who stood over it and carried on building,while Ishmael was handing him the stones and both of them were saying, 'O our Lord! Accept (this service) from us, Verily, You are the All- Hearing, the All-Knowing.'The Prophet added, "Then both of them went on building and going round the Ka'ba saying: O our Lord ! Accept (this service) from us, Verily, You are the All- Hearing, the All-Knowing." (2.127) (Sahih Bukhari, Prophets, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 583)"

NL member: So lanre do you belive that I am going to burn in hell for all eternity if I die as an atheist?

To Allah(swt) belong the Judgement,He is the master of the day of Judgement and he's never unjust to his slaves.Who am I to judge you? Allah said in the glorious Quran in surah Al-Kahf 18;110-''Say[O muhammed(pbuh)];I am only a man like you.It has been revealed to me that your God is one God[Allah].So whoever hopes for the meeting with his Lord,let him work righteousness and associate none as a partner in the worship of his Lord''......Peace

Redoil: how dare you compare the camel padded feet to that of human. No wonder. Is that why they secreatly kill camels in alabarago abattoir and agege abattoir at night and secreatly sell it as cow meat to people who sell food? Moderator please move this poo to the frontpage

Ican't deduce anything from what you wrote.

tintingz: *singing and passing by*


''. . . . .row row row ya boat...gently down tha stream. . .repeating repeating repeating same thing that is what they do''

Bro tintingz,me join you jare.I'm fed up wasting my time with these trinitarians,ours is to convey the message,only Allah guides to the straight path.....Peace

Dizney: Go to a nearby bookshop, ask for POST-UTME MASTER KEY (PUMAK) its just #400 or goto http://test.jkketc.net to practise it.

Futa don't have past questions jare,people are just writing their own questions.

NL member: Atheist.
So many reasons why I left Islam.
Its not important now anyway

Ok bro,it's a choice you've made,we are all waiting for the day of Judgement,you're waiting[if you believe in it]and we are also waiting with certainty.....Peace

cleanvessel: Kaaba was not built by Abraham, it is a lie. If you dispute it, I will prove it to you.

It was built by your grandpa abi?

NL member: ^Very devout one at that

Now an atheist or christian? And if I may ask the reason why you converted?

NL member: I used to kill myself with these countless fasts back then, ramadan,monday and thursday etc.
Good times....good times

Once a muslim?

sino: Alhamdulilah bro lanrexlan explained himself about the hadith, for him to have even corrected himself on here is a big plus for him, cos he is sincere and i respect him for that. The question is, can you do the same?

Thank you brother,this is the 4th time he will keep repeating that I lied after I made my apologies that I made a mistake.He wanna make me regret for apologizing to him,but I won't I can't lie when I see I am wrong.One thing about alexis is that he loves repeating the same thing and people will think he's winning in a debate.

If you can't understand anything from mac's posts, then your case is tending towards pathetic.
See my advice for you is this, be polite and humble, don't come on here cos you read one or two hadiths believing you've got all the knowledge about Islam. You've not fully understand your own religion sef talkless of Islam!

Don't mind both of them,bro maclatunji break the thing down to the lowest level,he still insisting Quran is contradicting hadith.Let me give him the final example that things will change on the day of Judgement,Allah(swt) prohibits the drinking of intoxicants[all forms of alcoholic wines and drinks]It is mentioned in the glorious Quran in surah Al-Maidah 5;90-''O you who believe! Intoxicants and gambling,Al-Anzab(animals slaughtered to stone idols)and arrows for seeking luck or decision are abominations of shaitan's handiwork.So avoid strictly all that (abominations) in order that you may be successful''.We can clearly see that drinking wines is haram(forbidden)in islam and it's a sin on you if you do so.

But the same Quran also talk about people of paradise having wines[surah As-Saffat 37;45-45,surah Al-Mutaffifin 83;25]Is that a contradiction or things will change in the hereafter? Definitely not a contradiction,the wine that's forbidden here on earth is lawful for the people of paradise.Allah knows if you drink wine on earth,it will surely creates enmity among yourselves and make you forget performing your duties to Allah.Wines that are sinful on earth but made lawful to the people of paradise on the day of Judgement,change of rules and Allah knows best the unseen.

Lol, jargons? SMH. The topic is how muslims can teach non-muslims abi? You raised a question, it was explained, links where provided for you to read more but you refused to learn, you remain adamant on your preconceived understanding and opinion. Seriously, i can't help you!

There aren't here to learn,they are here to criticize.No matter how you try to explain,they won't take it than to criticize it.....Peace brother.

deSika: try again wiseman,
Jesus did not copy bread eating froom pagans, as a matter of fact. jesus grew up among jews a very religous group of Human beings. so there was no contact between Jesus and pagans oops

by the way do you eat bread, uhm are you thinking what i am thinking.

Ask cleanvessel that question,he said wearing garments is part of idol worship and also performing ablution.Ask him if he wears garments or not and if people don't perform ablution in the bible.

those guys brught up what Muhammad ffoounder of Islam allowed from pagan. you can do yourself the favor and tow their line, get what Jesus allowed from pagan worship. oops. and not what followers catholics and the rest brought up after Jesus ministry. oops

by the way i would like to advise you to explain why it is important that Allah must be worshipped the same way as idols are. because it baffles non musims why a true God will ask his followers to worship him in the way Pagans worshipped their idols, why a true God would ask his followers would ask his follwers to use a house used to serve idols for him. me thinks, it seems those pagans were getting it right in their worship of idols, so in the end idol worship may not be wrong to Allah after all. if Allah sees nothing wrong in their mode and place of worship. oops

Salaam aleikun

Jesus(pbuh) and many prophets also bowed and worship God,idol worshippers also bow and worship their idols? Did Jesus(pbuh) copied bowing to God from idol worshippers? Absolutely No,who are the idol worshippers bowing to? Inanimate objects they created by themselves,who did Jesus(pbuh) and we muslims bow to? The creator of THE heavens and earth.What matter most is the intention why you bow and whom you bow to.The kabba was built by Abraham(pbuh),a righteous man,kabba is the first house of worship on earth.The kabba was meant for the worship of THE one true God and Abraham(pbuh) did that.But due to change in time,ignorance and disbelief sets in Makkah and people keeps idols in kabba but when prophet muhammed(pbuh) came and became a prophet,he demolished all the idol worshipping and dedicated the kabba to the worship of THE one true God which it was meant for.....Peace

cleanvessel: @ lanrexlan

Don't be deceived by satan's lies. Breaking of bread is called the Lord's super or Holy Communion. Jesus commanded we should be doing it in remembrance of Him and he did it first (Mat. 26:26-28).

If any pagans did such, they copied it from the Christians and not the opposite.

Where's proof for that? Was paganism before christianity or christianity before paganism?

Jesus is not sent to Isreal alone. God has timing. When he made the statement in Matthew 15:24, it was not yet the time for the Gentiles.

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore and teach all NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

The above command was given by Jesus Himself after his resurrection. The time for the Gentiles began from there.

Gospel of Matthew 10;5-6-''And these twelve disciples he commanded,saying;Go not in the way of the Gentiles nor enter a city of the samaritans,but go rather into the house of the lost SHEEP of THE house of ISRAEL''.Which one is correct?

I'm sure you know all these but want to mislead the ignorant. Some people are bent to serve satan knowing and directly how much more serving him indirectly, which you are doing. May God forgive you.

Who's serving satan? I am serving the creator of heavens and the earth and all that's between.....Peace

deSika: my points are invalid to you because you are engaging in a warped way of reasoning

i have shown you the difference between your report card story and the judgment day ish.

An act is an act. Whether in heaven or on earth. Shirk is shirk whether you are in heaven or earth.

1. The hadith says Allah will appear to them in the image they had of him and not the image they will have or were having of him on that day. That presupposes that they had the image before judgement day. That clearly is shirk according to Wiseman. How Allah appears to shirk commiting muslims beats my imagination. Does he love shirk

2.even if i assume that they neva had the image before judgement day, that they will have the image on that day (which is not what the hadith says). It still boils down to 'is having image of Allah' shirk or not. If its a shirk why must it be commited at all whether on judgement day or not.
By the way you dodged the questions again.

Allah said in the glorious Quran in surah Al-Infitar 82;19-''It will be a day(Of Judgement)when no person shall have power(to do anything)for another and the decision that day will be wholly for Allah''.

Surah Yunus 10;23-'' But when he delivers them;behold They rebel(disobey Allah) in the earth wrongfully.O mankind! Your rebellion(disobedience to Allah) is only against your own selves-a brief enjoyment of this worldly life,then to Us is your return and We shall inform you of what you used to do''.

Surah At-Takwir 81;10-''And when the (written)pages [of good and bad deed of a every person]shall be laid open''

Talking about recompense of good and bad deeds,not performing things again.There's no way I can explain better than this,if you like understand and if you like don't understand,your wahala.....Peace

deSika: Wiseman Lan
what would people do on judgement day
1. nothing
2. something

if nothing why will they have picture. having picture is it not something. oops


and why you are at it, pls how will something that is shirk today, if committed on judgement day makes it not shirk

Low level of reasoning,you can even steal,commit adultery on the day of judgement abi? I am highly disappointed in you,finally lost my respect for you.It's called day of judgement,the day of recompense of good and bad deeds,the day that the matter has already been decided.How can worship or a sin takes place? Very inept question you asked.....Peace

ak_yinka: Can someone pls tell me what day(s) of the week is/are more appropriate for muslims to fast?

Mondays and thursdays of every week and 13th,14th and 15th on the Hijra calendar every month.....Peace

alexis: Provide evidence mate. Where would the rules have changed in the Quran or Hadith.

The Prophet(pbuh) said:"When a man dies,all his deeds come
to an end except for three-an ongoing charity,beneficial knowledge or a righteous child who will pray for him."(Muslim hadith 357),
So,do you expect a man to commit sins on the day of judgement or in his grave? Do you expect him to offer SOLAT,give zakat,fast in the month of ramadan,perform Hajj on the day of judgement or in his grave? These things are very straightforward and easy to understand,it's not possible to commit sins or do any form of worship after one's death,the only thing that will benefit you is the deeds that you've done when alive.Let's hope you comprehend it.....Peace

cleanvessel: By this statement of yours, it implies you have seen that islam follows the way of idolaters and you now want the true way.

Jesus said I am the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, nobody can come unto the Father but by me (John 14:6).

If you accept that, I will tell you the rest. Thank you.

Gospel of Matthew 15;24-''But he answered and said;I was not sent except to the house of the lost sheep of Israel''.
Jesus is the way,life and truth to the people he was sent to.....Peace

cleanvessel: @ lanrexlan

Islam forbids idol worship but worship Allah the same way idol worshipers worship their idols. What an irony? There is no way you can worship the true God acceptably in the same manner idols are worshiped. God and idols are not worshiped the same manner. May God remove the veil of satanic deception from your face. Amen.

Similarities between Christianity and paganism
*Followers of both religions celebrated a ritual meal involving bread.It was called a missa in Latin or mass in English.
*Both the Catholic church and Mithraism had a total of seven sacraments.Epiphany, JAN-6,was originally the festival in which the followers of Mithra celebrated the visit of the Magi to their newborn god-man.The Christian Church took it over in the 9th century.There are many possible explanations of the similarities between earlier Pagan and later rebranded to Christian beliefs,practices and the lives of their god-men Christians copied Pagans: This is perhaps the most obvious theory. Celsus was a Platonist and polemical writer against Christianity who lived in the late 2nd century CE According to Tony Bushby, he"complained that this recent religion [of Christianity}was only a pale reflection" of Pagan belief.Some festivals of Christianity like christmas also has a pagan beginning.

Let people contribute jare.

Paul is a Liar and anti-christ.
Paul insists Christians should not boast:“What then,can we boast about? Nothing!” (Romans 3:27).“What do you have that you did not receive?And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?” (1 Corinthians 4:7).But he then boasts repeatedly;claiming he prays more,labours more and suffers more than everybody else.(2 Corinthians 11:22-27).He says it is unwise to compare oneself with others (2 Corinthians 10:12).Then he declares that he is superior to the twelve apostles: “They say they serve Christ? I know I sound like a madman,but I have served him far more!I have worked harder.” (2 Corinthians 11:23).He says:“Christ is the end of the law.”(Romans 10:4)Nevertheless, he performed Nazarite sacrifices according to the law even after Jesus’ resurrection. (Acts 21:26).Congenital liar Paul says to the Colossians:“Do not lie to one another.” (Colossians 3:9).And yet,Paul himself is not committed to truth.Instead,he justifies telling lies to the Philippians:“The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true,Christ is preached.” (Philippians 1:18).Paul claims his lies promote the gospel:“My dishonesty brought (God)glory by pointing up his honesty in contrast to my lies.”(Romans 3:7).He even openly boasts of being a deceiver to the Corinthians:“Crafty fellow that I am,I caught you by trickery!”(2 Corinthians 12:16).Paul is so unabashedly duplicitous,he admits to being guided by the shady principle of telling people whatever they want to hear:“I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some.”(1 Corinthians 9:22).Accusations that he was a liar trailed him everywhere,ensuring that he often resorted to swearing in self-defence: “The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is blessed forever knows that I am not lying.”(2 Corinthians 11:31).But Jesus expressly cautions against this:“Do not swear at all:either by heaven,for it is God’s throne;or by the earth,for it is his footstool. Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No’;anything beyond this comes from the evil one.”(Matthew 5:34/ 37).Mean-spirited Paul is so malicious;he wishes those who persecute him would castrate themselves. (Galatians 5:12).Responding to his critics,he insists their “mouths must be stopped.”(Titus 1:11).Jesus delivers sinners from Satan (Luke 4:18);but Paul delivers them to Satan.He says:“Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander,whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.”(1 Timothy 1:20).And yet,this same Paul moralises to the Galatians:“Brethren,if a man is overtaken in any trespass,you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness.” (Galatians 6:1).He counsels the Romans:“Repay no one evil for evil.” (Romans 12:17).But instead of forgiving those who offended him,he asked God to punish them:“Alexander the coppersmith has done me much harm.The Lord will punish him.”(2 Timothy 4:14).While Jesus advocates non- retaliationin Christian conduct:“that you may be sons of your Father in heaven” (Matthew 5:45);Paul preaches it for malevolent reasons:“for in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.''(Romans 12:20).

tpia@:
thank you very much for your reply. I find this matter very interesting and its something I've always wondered about.

You are always welcome bro

It also leads me to my next question: I looked up the story of khadijah and it seems she was the one who first approached Mohammed with an offer of marriage, after which their respective families deliberated on it.

Yes,for the liking he had for the prophet(pbuh) and trustworthiness and moral conduct displayed by prophet muhammed(pbuh)when he worked for her.But it should be noted that most of what happens nowadays,when a woman likes a particular man,is the result of haraam causes,such as a careless attitude on her part whereby she talks to him and sits with him.A person who has evil motives may take advantage of such an offer to achieve some of his aims.

In Islam, are muslim women allowed to propose to a man they have interest in, or was Khadijah's example an exception?

I have always been under the impression muslims are more strict about such things and would not encourage women to do that.

With regard to the idea of a Muslim woman offering herself in marriage to a righteous man,that does not contradict the idea of modesty,so long as he is trustworthy with regard to his religious commitment and moral attitude.It was narrated that Thaabit al Banaani said:I was with Anas ibn Maalik and a daughter of his was with him.He said:“A woman came to the Messenger of Allaah(peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)and offered herself in marriage to him.She said:‘O Messenger of Allah,do you want to marry me?’” The daughter of Anas said:“How little was her modesty.How shameless,how shameless!” Anas said: “She was better than you;she had a liking for the Prophet(peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)so she offered herself in marriage to him.[Narrated by Al-Bukhaari,4828].
Imam Al-Bukhari included this hadeeth in a chapter which he entitled:A woman offering herself in marriage to a righteous man.
Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said:Ibn al-Munayyir said in al-Haashiyah:One of the subtle points of Al-Bukhari’s knowledge is that he from the specific story of the woman who offered herself in marriage to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)he derived a general principle;he understood that it is permissible for any woman to offer herself in marriage to a righteous man whose righteousness she admires and if he likes her he may marry her subject to the conditions of marriage being fulfilled.
The words of Anas to his daughter:“She is better than you” indicate that it is permissible for a woman to offer herself in marriage to a righteous man and to tell him of her liking for him because of his righteousness and virtue or because of his knowledge and honour or for some characteristic of religious commitment and that there is no shame on her if she does that,rather that is a sign of her virtue.The daughter of Anas (may Allah be pleased with him)looked at the externals and she did not understand this properly until Anas said:“She is better than you.”As for the woman who offers herself in marriage to a man for some worldly purpose,this is something that is abhorrent in the extreme.[Umdat al-Qaari’ Sharh Saheeh al-Bukhaari, 20/113].But it is better for a woman to inform her wali (guardian) of her desire to marry and Allah knows best.....Peace

maclatunji: It will not be possible to commit shirk or any other sin on the day of judgement. I said it earlier, the rules would have changed.

Bro maclatunji,don't mind him jare,I thought he will be able to reason but he just proved me wrong.The day of Judgement that everyone will be recompense for his or her deeds,how will worship takes place again? But he can't think

deSika: you should not apologize to me, you should apologise to Alexis who you called a liar here


so i take it that you standby what you initially said here



but Muhammad says Then (Allah) the Lord of the worlds will come to them in a SHAPE NEAREST to the PICTURE they had in THIER MINDS ABOUT HIM

now the question is not whether they have different images or single image about Allah. the question is having any image at all about Allah

so what you have just said is that
1. the people who Allah will appear to in a SHAPE NEAREST the IMAGE THEY HAVE OF ALLAH will be commiting shirk

2. Muhammad said some people will be commiting shirk on judgement day, because they would certainly have an image in their mind (whether same image or different images)

3. Allah would be appearing to poeple who are commiting shirk, people who have a PICTURE of him in thier mind. [lanrexlan says having picture of Allah is shirk]

thank you, wiseman lanrexlan. you have just done what the thread asks. you have just taught non muslims that
Allah will be appearing to people who had pictures of him in a shape that is cloosest to that picture, and therefore would be appearing to shirk commiting muslims.

#extending handshake......good job, good job, good job

I thought you can think,that's why I explained it to you.Do you even know the meaning of shirk? Will there be worship on the day of Judgement? Why are you thinking like this? You just showed me how ignorant you are,no need telling you anything again.....Peace

cleanvessel: This is not a defence. You saw clearly in my post above from your islamic authority how Muhammad copied the worship of idols and yet you said islam forbids all forms of idol worship. Your saying is different from your action. You cannot deceive God.

The fact remains that everything you do to worship Allah is what idol worshipers do to worship their own idols too. Yes or No.Therefore there is a relationship between islam and idolatery. Your explanations did not cancel this fact. Besides your stories have no authority backing them. They are formulated by you.

The questions you should ask yourself are: Can God be worshiped the same way as people worship idols? Why this resemblance?

No need explaining anything to you again,it seems you aren't here to learn.Just to argue and I can't argue with people like you,I explained something to you and you can't comprehend,saying rubbish.Everything I wrote had backings and there's no need giving it to you,Islam forbids idol worship and it's not a must you accept.....Peace

deSika: simple. will you take my challenge or not

Alexis brought up a hadith that shows where Muhammad said " Then (Allah) the Lord of the worlds will come to them in a SHAPE NEAREST to the PICTURE they had in THIER MINDS ABOUT HIM

if the above is true, what will yu Lanrexlan do.
1. will you defend Muhammad and say that Allah will really come to them in a shape nearest to the picture they had in their minds. this is what Muhammad said in the hadith

2. or will you stick to what you said, that having a picture in their mind is shirk [whereas Muhammad said they will have a picture in their mind, and its the shape nearest to the picture that Allah will appear to them.]

you are not running away from this. take the challenge, then i will bring up that hadith from islamic sites.

There's no need taking any challenge,I still stand on what I said.Having a picture of Allah in mind when on earth isn't allowed and prophet muhammed(pbuh)didn't tell anyone to have a picture of Allah in his mind,the hadith is talking about the day of Judgement which hasn't happen.It's the future.

It's narrated on the authority of Abu Huraraih;Allah's messenger(pbuh)said;The first batch of people who will enter Paradise will be (glittering) like the moon on a full moon night and those who will enter next will be glittering like the brightest star.THEIR HEARTS WILL BE AS IF THE HEART OF A SINGLE MAN for they will have neither differences nor any enmity amongst themselves..............[Sahih Bukhari 4;3246].

You can see that some things will change on the day of Judgement,if THE believers' hearts is like that of A SINGLE MAN,then it makes sense if THE hadith says Allah will come to them in a shape nearest to the one they have in their minds,since their HEARTS is like that of a single man.What I am saying is that if everyone has different picture of Allah in their minds,then which picture will Allah appear to them? That's my stand in the first instance,Allah knows best what will happen on judgement day.

I just verified the hadith alexis posted,I mistook it for another hadith of the same narrator with the same context,only what's different is where he highlighted that says Allah will come to them in a shape nearest to the picture they had in mind about Him.The hadith I mistook for it is that of sahih Bukhari 9;7439,the place he highlighted says Allah will come to them in a shape other than the one they saw the first time.That's the only difference in both hadiths,my mistakes for not verifying in the first instance,accept my apology......Peace

tpia@:
thanks for answering.



ok, will look for the links.

You are welcome bro.

was there a reason why he didnt marry other wives during her lifetime? Especially if polygamy was standard practice back then.

I am not sure if there's any reason behind prophet muhammed(pbuh)not taking another wife during Khadijah(ra) lifetime.He was devoted to her for 25years.All his wives apart from one[Aisha] were widows.He married the widows to support and help them.During his time,marrying a widow especially with children would be looked upon as a curse.Hence the Prophet Muhammad(peace and blessings upon him) broke this inappropriate custom demonstrating that there is no curse by marrying widows.By being in polygamous marriages,the wives were able to transfer the Prophetic teachings of domestic life. Many matters of religion are only known to us from the wives,Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her)is amongst those who narrate the most hadiths from the Prophet (peace and blessings upon him)The numerous marriages of the Prophet Muhammad(peace and blessings upon him) were a means to establish close ties with the tribes the wives originated from.These marriage bonds resulted in the tribes becoming extended family.The Prophet (peace and blessings upon him)was able to reach out to them to convey the message of Allah to them in which makes the message of Allah to spread.

i think ancient rome and ancient greece were monogamous even though divorce was common in rome.

however, i'm not sure rome extended to arabia [although it did to syria], so you may be right.

It extended to arabia bro.....Peace

deSika: pls go back
and read my post again, its a challenge am bringing to you. Will you
take it. What will you do if you see that what Alexis posted is actually
what the hadith said.

Prophet muhammed(pbuh) never told muslims to have a picture of Allah in their minds.If what alexis wrote is right because I am still checking,the hadith is talking about what will happen on the day of Judgement.Having picture of Allah when on earth is shirk and prophet muhammed(pbuh) never endorsed that....Peace

Mr anony: In case you haven't noticed, I don't care about Isang at all. I am only pointing out that this is not he first time I have know Zakir Naik to dodge. It actually amuses me that Zakir is more concerned about his popularity than preaching his message

When and where did Dr Zakir Naik dodge? Nobody knows the guy white you keep repeating.Dr Zakir isn't after popularity

cleanvessel: You have tried so hard to refute the allegations that islam has something to do with idols. But unfortunately, the so many evidences available still point to the fact that the allegations are true:

Do you accept the first one I explained?

1. TAWAF BETWEEN SAFA AND MARWA

Doing Tawaf between Safa and Marwa is an Islamic ritual associated with the pilgrimage to Mecca. Safa and Marwa are two mounts, located at Mecca. This ritual entails Muslims walking frantically between the two mounts, seven times. This was originally a pagan pre-Islamic practice. Muhammad retained it for Islam, sanctioning it with yet another Qur'anic revelations.

Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, AS IT WAS THE CEREMONIES OF THE DAYS OF PRE-ISLAMIC PERIOD OF IGNORANCE TILL ALLAH REVEALED 'Verily! (The two mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to perform Tawaf between them.' " (Quran 2.158)
(Sahih Bukhari 2:26:710)

You can see for yourself from the above hadith that what was being practiced by idol worshipers before islam was incorporated into it. I mean islam continues with the ways of idol worshipers.

The first thing you got wrong about Safar and Marwar is that muslims go round it seven times because the mother of prophet Ismael(pbuh) did that when Abraham(pbuh) settled them down in Makkah.Ismael(pbuh) was thirsty and his mother Hajar was looking for water for him,unfortunately she found none.She ran to mount Safar to see maybe someone is coming or a caravan is coming,she found nothing,she went to the side of mount
Marwar also and search for people that will help them with water,she found nobody.She did this[running between safar and marwar] seven times and that's what gives birth to what muslims did by go round safar and marwar in order to commemorate Hajar for what she did.The idol worshippers may also do tawaf but we muslims aren't doing it because they did or Islam copied them,it's for Hajar,Ismael(pbuh)'s mother.

2. REQUIREMENT OF IHRAM

Ihram is a state a Muslim enters into for his pilgrimage to Mecca. It involves a series of procedures like ritual washing, wearing 'Ihram garments', etc. Ihram was originally a pagan requirement for worshipping idols during pre-Islamic times. Muhammad retained this practice for Islam. Muslims assume Ihram to perform the Hajj or Umrah.

Narrated 'Urwa: I asked 'Aisha : ...But in fact, this divine inspiration was revealed concerning the Ansar who used to assume “Ihram” for worshipping an idol called “Manat” which they used to worship at a place called Al-Mushallal before they embraced Islam, and whoever assumed Ihram (for the idol), would consider it not right to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa.
(Sahih Bukhari 2:26:706)

They continued their pagan ways of worship even when they embraced islam.

The word "Ihram" is used in the Quran in close relation to the "Shahr Al-Haram"(the sacred months).These are clearly defined as being four months, during which Hajj may be observed. However,when Muslims observe their Umrah anytime during the year,they still get into a state of Ihram and the men wear the Hajj garments!Wearing garments also pagan acts??

3. PRAYING 5 TIMES TOWARDS MECCA

Pagans prior to Islam would pray five times per day towards Mecca. Muhammad retained for Islam, this pre-Islamic practice, sanctioning it with a story of a night trip to heaven on a mythical beast called al-Buraq. In heaven, the Hadith tells us that Allah demanded 50 prayers per day per Muslim. Upon advice from Moses, Muhammed bargains with Allah and successfully reduces it to five prayers per day.

Zoroastrians are also expected to recite their (kusti) prayers at least five times a day having first cleansed themselves by washing (ablution). So even today, this is not a practice unique to Islam. But, contrary to the Muslims, they pray in the direction of the Sun (at each time of the day) and/or of the Holy Fire (if they are in a Fire Temple).

You said the pagans are facing the kabba when they do pray.Point number one to be noted is that muslims don't face the kabba before,they face Masjid Aqsa in Jerusalem,this serve as the Qiblah before.Allah said in the glorious Quran in surah Al-baqarah 2;144-''The fools among the people will say;What has turned them from their Qiblah to which they used to face in prayer.Say;To Allah belong both the east and the west,He guides whom he wills to a straight way''.
Then Allah said in the next verse that they should turn their faces towards Masjid Al-Haram in makkah.So it's a command from Allah and not a pagan practise as you claim.About 5 times prayer,Allah talked about prophet muhammed(pbuh)'s night journey in surah Al-Isra 17;1.

With above clear evidences, it is so glaring that islam has so much to do with the practice of idol worshipers. Note that it is one thing to say something it is another to do otherwise. Muslims claim to serve one God, but is God serviced the same way as idols? Why was the practices of idolaters adopted into islam? Would God have revealed His words to embrace idol worship? Let us all be truthful to ourselves. Seeing the truth and looking away from it is self-deception.

Thank you.

Islam forbids all forms of idol worship......Peace

deSika: what if what Alexis wrote is correct, what if that is exactly what is written in the hadith.
1. would you change your position and defend your Muhammad or Allah
2. or would you stick to the highlighted. and by so doing telling us that a. your hadiths and Muhammad just promoted shirk. b. that you know what is shirk but your Muhammad does not know, therefore you lanrexlan is wiser than your Muhammad.

its a challenge from me to you, will you take it.

Let me tell you about Tawheed al-Asmaa was-Sifaat;This is describing Allah the Most High and naming Him with whatever He described and named Himself with and with whatever His Messenger(pbuh)described and named Him with in the authentic narrations-and to affirm that for Allaah without resemblance(to the creation) or likening (to the creation), and without (false)interpretation (of any of that) or negation(of any of that).There is nothing like Him and He is the All-Hearer,the All-Seer.What I am trying to explain is that there's no way you have a picture of Allah in your mind without giving the resemblance to one His creature and this will go against tawheed.For example,Allah talked about his shin in the glorious Quran,have we seen it before? No,but we believed Allah possessed this quality and it befits Him alone without giving resemblance to any of his creature or negating its meaning.If you try to think how Allah's shin looks like,you will definitely think and give resemblance of Allah's shin to that of a man and that's against tawheed.There's none comparable to Him.....Peace