₦airaland Forum

alexis: Ah - you forgot OFFENSIVE Jihad. The ones that muslims like Boko Haram and Ansaru are using. How did Islam spread to Nigeria - did Usman Dan Fodio preach Islam or forced it down everyone neck

Brother,there's nothing like offensive JIHAD? During the Lifetime of prophet muhammed(pbuh) even after Islam has become victorious,they were still non-muslims in makkah.For example,abu talib and abu jahl,they are were non-muslims and muhammed(pbuh)never kill them.Today,there are over 2millions christians living peacefully in saudi arabia,why don't the government of saudi arabia carried out offensive JIHAD on these people? Don't they know about islam? Brother,boko harams are being used for political reasons,not fighting any JIHAD....Peace

alexis: Are you a Sunni or Shia/Shitte? I have always used the Quran and Hadith. Mohammed's life and deeds are recorded in the Hadith and the revelation and recitation is recorded in the Quran. From where come this Seerah?.

Can you please refer an online version for us to CONFIRM

Brother,I am neither a sunni nor shia I am a muslim,i follow strictly the Quran and the prophet's sunnahs.Prophet muhammed(pbuh)was a muslim not sunni nor shia [url]

alexis: Are you a Sunni or Shia/Shitte? I have always used the Quran and Hadith. Mohammed's life and deeds are recorded in the Hadith and the revelation and recitation is recorded in the Quran. From where come this Seerah?.

Can you please refer an online version for us to CONFIRM

Brother,I am neither a sunni nor shia I am a muslim,i follow strictly the Quran and the prophet's sunnahs.Prophet muhammed(pbuh)was a muslim not sunni nor shia [/url]

alexis: Are you a Sunni or Shia/Shitte? I have always used the Quran and Hadith. Mohammed's life and deeds are recorded in the Hadith and the revelation and recitation is recorded in the Quran. From where come this Seerah?.

Can you please refer an online version for us to CONFIRM

Brother,I am neither a sunni nor shia I am a muslim,i follow strictly the Quran and the prophet's sunnahs.Prophet muhammed(pbuh)was a muslim not sunni nor shia.Hadiths are the sayings of the prophet muhammed(pbuh)while seerah is the biography and stories about the prophet.I don't know how to attach a link but this is one http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophetic_biography

Mintayo: A day and night of fighting on the frontier is better than a month of fasting and prayers.
Swords are the keys to paradise.
He who draws his sword in the path of allah has sworn allegiance to allah.
The unbeliever and the one who kills him will never meet in hell.
Allah sent me as a mercy and a portent; he did not send me as a trader or as a cultivator.the worst community on the day of ressurection are the traders and the cultivators except those (of them) who are niggardly with their religion.
GO IN THE NAME OF ALLAH AND IN ALLAH AND IN THE RELIGION OF THE PROPHET OF ALLAH! DON NOT KILL THE VERY OLD,THE INFANT THE CHILD OR THE WOMAN. BRING ALL THE BOOTY(ABOVE MENTIONED),HOLDING BACK NO PART OF IT. MAINTAIN ORDER AND DO GOOD,FOR ALLAH LOVES THOSE WHO DO GOOD.
IF YOU FIND 'the tithe collector', kill him.
Expel the christain and the Jews from the arabian peninsula...

(hadith of kanz Al-Muttaqi, Vol. II, pp 252-286).

What did i do? Those are not my words now!

Shalom.

Let me point out your ignorance of quoting out of context.Consider this
Mathew
10:34-35 Jesus Christ (pbuh) said "Don't think
that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not
come to bring peace but by the sword. For I
have come to set a man against his father, a
daughter against her mother and a daughter
in-law." Now, if I say Jesus came to spread
violence and you should fight against your
father,son, mother etc, it is out of context. In
context he said, For the truth against
falsehood even if you have fought against
your parents and everyone. It is a fight btw
truth and falsehood.And this is the same
thing Quran says in Surah Nisa 4:135 "O you
who believe! stand out firmly for justice as
witnesses to God even as against yourselves
or your parents or your kin, and whether it
be against rich or poor; for God can best
protect both. Follow not the lusts of your
hearts or decline to do justice, Verily God is
well acquainted with all that you do". Also in
Luke 9:27 Jesus Christ (pbuh) said "I came to
send fire on earth, and how I wish it were
already kindled". The same thing in Luke
22:36 "And he that hath no sword, let him sell
his garment and buy one.I should now conclude jesus(pbuh)also preached terrorism by saying who doesn't have a sword should sell his garments to buy one? It's out of context,let's quote verses in context," Similarly in old
testament, Exodus 34:11-14, Numbers 31:1-8
and Numbers 33:50-56. This is the effect of
quotation out of context...
Peace brother.

talk2me006: GBAM!


THESE PEOPLE WILL NOT SEE THIS YOUR POST.THEIR MIND HAV BEEN SEAL
PLEASE STOP REPLYING THEM.

ONLY WANT THEY KNOW IS TO TALK ABOUT JIHAD WHY THERE WERE SEVERAL TERRORISM VERSES IN THEIR BIBLE.UP TILL NOW NO ONE AMONG THEM DISPUTE IT.
IT.
PLEASE LEAVE THEM AS AYENNY02 LEFT THEM.

I think that's what I will do,thank you very much brother.We have done our job,ours is to deliever the message only ALLAH guides to the straight path.....Peace brothers.

alexis: The Hadiths are the TRADITIONS of muslims - They give clearer explanation on the Quran. You are a Muslim - you can't deny that!

They do,I don't deny but seerah also gives explanations and the reasons why verses were been revealed.It's not a must that every quranic verse has an hadith to back it up,you can't see hadith to back then use seerah....Peace

alexis: I am Soooooo tempted to answer you

I will ask you first - the verses in Matthew you quoted, are they from the Corrupted Bible or are they from the Injeel that was lost?

because if they are corrupted - you shouldn't be using it? So, please tell us where you got those verses from. BECAUSE FROM ALL INDICATION - YOU BELIEVE THOSE VERSES.

Once you answer me - I will respond to you

Brother,he quoted the verse because ALLAH said in the glorious quran in surah Al-IMRAN 3;64-''say O people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians);Let's come to a word that's between us and you,that we worship none but one true God and associate no partners with,we erect not among ourselves lords besides ALLAH,and if they turned away,say;bear witness that we are at least muslims(bowing our will to ALLAh).
So the brother found that the verse of matthew 19;16-17 talked about the oneness of God,same with deuteronomy 6;4,both verses have a meaning similar meaning to surah ikhlas 112;1-4,then he accepted it to be part of remnants of GOD's word...Hope that answers that....Peace

Mintayo: interpretations of islamic scholars? That got me thinking.
So,it is no more defence of ur 'muslim' country again but defense during battles? You see,you are contradicting urself again my dear.

These are the things most of ur scholars tried to do,they see that the wars or better put 'raids' of mohammed tarnishes their images,so they(Deedat and co) say many contraditory things and at the end,they become confused and make ppl call ur god a lie!

Mohammed spread his religion by 'Jihad'.

After he fought his 1st jihad with d meccans&looted them(d nakhla raid before d popular battle of badr-which came later),he was encouraged as a results of his victory;and later covenants were made btw him&d meccans not to fight for some yrs; bt mohammed cancelled the covenants with those made with the jews in Yathrib.

Shaykh (sheikh) Abdullah bin Muhammad bin hamid the chief Justice of Saudi Arabia Said:
then allah revealed in sura Bara'at (repentance IX) the order to discard (all) obligations(covenants, etc) and commanded the muslims to fight all the pagans as well as against the people of the scriptures(jews and christains) IF THEY DO NOT ACCEPT ISLaM,till they pay the Jizya.

My friend please stop these contradictions and accept the TRUTH!

Shalom

You see mister 'copy and paste',there's nothing like surah Ba'rat in the quran,i explained JIHAD means to strive and struggle.Prophet muhammed(pbuh)'s grandpa was a disbeliever and died as one,why didn't muhammed(pbuh)killed him if JIHAD means holy fighting? He preached about islam to his grandpa till his death and his grandpa denied him.The same to abu talib and abu jahl,they never accepted and islam and muhammed(pbuh)never kill them,I have explained the surah you quoted...Peace

Brother alexis,do you think hadiths are the explanations to the quran? Hadiths are the sayings of the prophet(pbuh),if you want to know the meaning of the quran,then read tafseer or see reasons why verses were revealed in the seerah of muhammed(pbuh)...Peace

alexis: If I show you the PROOF from your Hadith - what then? Are you going to accept it?

Where's the proof? Let me read myself.

alexis: For him to debate on new evidence, he has resulted to character attacks. His Allah said all revelations that come from Him are true both to Jews, Christians and muslims. He will not see that but will go on with his "Your Bible is Corrupt" mantra.

He turned around and said not all portions of the "Corrupted Bible" are corrupt. How does he know the one that is not corrupt? I don't understand how people can contradict themselves and put down their common sense whenever it comes to Islam

Brother,when ALLAH told we muslims to believe in all scriptures,it was injeel and torah.Nowhere in the quran is the word 'bible' mentioned,the word 'injeel' means 'good news'.We believed everything jesus(pbuh)preached was the truth and from ALLAH,but today's bible isn't the word of God,it may contain a remnants.See what one of your pastor of the highest eminence said;
Dr. W. Graham Scroggie of the Moody Bible Institude,Chicago,one of the most prestigious Christian Evangelical Mission in the world,answering the question —"Is the Bible the Word of God?"(also the title of his book)under the heading:IT IS HUMAN, YET DIVINE.He says on page 17: "Yes, the Bible is human,though some out of zeal which is not according to knowledge,have denied this.Those books have passed through the minds of men,are written in the language of men,were penned by the hands of men, and bear in their style the characteristics of men.Another erudite Christian scholar, Kenneth Cragg,the Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem,says on page 277 of his book,"The Call of the Minaret": "Not so the New Testament.There is condensation and editing;there is choice,reproduction and witness.The Gospels have come through the mind of the Church behind the authors. They represent experience and history.If words have any meaning,do we need to add another word of comment to prove our case? No! But the professional propagandists after letting the cat out of the bag,still have the face to try to make their readers believe that they have proved beyond the shadow of any doubt that the Bible is the "irrefragable Word of God." Their semantic gymnastics —equivocating, and playing with words — is amazing!
That's I said if we muslims found somethings in the bible that's in line with the 100% GOD's word(the quran),then we accept as the remnants of GOD's word in the so-called bible,if it contradicts we reject and if it neither in line nor contradicts-won't accept nor decline and ALLAH knows best.

alexis: You haven't used ONE Hadith to backup anyone of those verses. So far, you have given then your personal interpretation.

Brother,but I used the sira(life of the prophet),we go back in history and see why certain verses were revealed and I have explained why all the verses were revealed,what happened that time,the situation and you are still looking for hadith? Peace brother.

Mintayo: you see that,i didnt bother answering them again(laxtran and talktome); the guy could not just stop 'digging' his own pits. Kept repeating the same thing again and again(in another form)-calling their god a lie-i don't know whether he knows more than him...Allah said this,you say he didnt mean it that way when it is so glaring! (no consistency,contradictions and no arrangements-verses and chapters scattered),and it is a book from a god!
May the Lord open their eyes.

Shalom.

Brother,should I point out more 100 clear contradictions in your bible? If you don't understand the quran doesn't mean the quran is contradictory.The arrangement of the quran isn't chronologically,it was revealed over a period of 23years...Peace

talk2me006: lanrexlan! abeg dont replied to these ignorant people. NO MATTER THE PROOF YOU GAVE THEM THEY ARE DESTINED TO NOT SEE IT.PLS DONT WASTE YOUR TIME.PLS

Thank you jare my brother,ALLAH said in the quran that as for those who rejects the truth,ALLAH has placed a seal on their hearts and they will wander blindly in their error.

Answer to allegation that Islam promotes
violence, bloodshed and brutality since the
Qur'an says that Muslims should kill the
kuffar where ever they find them. Loooolz..
anyway,this refutes the allegation.
A few selected verses from the Qur'an are
often misquoted to perpetuate the myth that
Islam promotes violence, and exhorts its
followers to kill those outside the pale of
Islam.The following verse from Surah
Taubah is very often quoted by critics of
Islam as you did,to show that Islam
promotes violence, bloodshed and brutality:
"Kill the mushriqeen (pagans, polytheists,
kuffar) where ever you find them."
[Al-Qur'an 9:5] but here is the context of
verse is during battlefield
Critics of Islam actually quote this verse out
of context. In order to understand the
context, you need to read from verse 1 of
this surah. It says that there was a peace
treaty between the Muslims and the Mushriqs
(pagans) of Makkah.This treaty was violated
by the Mushriqs of Makkah.A period of four
months was given to the Mushriqs of Makkah
to make amends.Otherwise war would be
declared against them. Verse 5 of Surah
Taubah says:
"But when the forbidden months are past,
then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye
find them, and seize them, beleaguer them,
and lie in wait for them in every stratagem
(of war); but if they repent, and establish
regular prayers and practise regular charity,
then open the way for them: for Allah is oft-
forgiving, Most merciful."
[Al-Qur'an 9:5]
This verse is quoted during a battle, for
example,the war between America and
Vietnam.We know that America was once at
war with Vietnam.Suppose the President of
America or the General of the American Army
told the American soldiers during the war:
"Wherever you find the Vietnamese, kill
them".Today if I say that the American
President said,"Wherever you find
Vietnamese, kill them" without giving the
context,I will make him sound like a butcher.
But if I quote him in context, that he said it
during a war, it will sound very logical,as he
was trying to boost the morale of the
American soldiers during the war. Similarly
Allah told prophet Muhammad (pbuh)in Verse
9:5 to boost morale of Muslims during battle.
The Qur'an says, "Kill the Mushriqs where
ever you find them", during a battle to boost
the morale of the Muslim soldiers.What the
Qur'an is telling Muslim soldiers is, don't be
afraid during battle; wherever you find the
enemies kill them.
But when any sensible person reads the full
context he will realise that Surah Taubah
chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer to the
allegation that Islam promotes violence,
brutality and bloodshed. It says:
"If one amongst the pagans ask thee for
asylum,grant it to him, so that he may hear
the word of Allah; and then escort him to
where he can be secure that is because they
are men without knowledge."
[Al-Qur'an 9:6]
The Qur'an not only says that a Mushriq
seeking asylum during the battle should be
granted refuge, but also that he should be
escorted to a secure place. In the present
international scenario, even a kind, peace-
loving army General, during a battle, may let
the enemy soldiers go free, if they want
peace. But which army General will ever tell
his soldiers, that if the enemy soldiers want
peace during a battle, don't just let them go
free, but also escort them to a place of
security?
This is exactly what Allah (swt) says in the
Glorious Qur'an to promote peace in the
world.
Peace brother.

alexis: Listen, it is not how you and I interpret it that matters. IT IS HOW MOHAMMED INTERPRETED IT THAT MATTERS. And that is the problem with Islam. The author of the Quran should have made it CLEAR ON THE INTERPRETATION. You can read that and don't have the urge to kill or attack anyone. Boko Haram reads it and kills innocent people mainly Christians.

So let me ask - was Osama protecting himself when he attacked America and killed over 3000 people on 9/11. America didn't do anything to him. America wasn't in Afghanistan then. So, Osama and his brothers weren't been oppressed.

Who is attacking muslims in Northern Nigeria. Even before Boko Haram and Ansaru - do you know the atrocities some muslims committed in the North? Who attacked them? There is a thread here on NL where an innocent woman (a teacher) was murdered and killed in Gombe state because she touched the Quran when students where cheating and hiding the cheat papers in the Quran. Her crime - she was an infidel that touch the Quran.

So, history is not on your side. All the wars that Mohammed fought were not defensive my friend. You are a muslim, you should know that. When Iraq and Iran fought their war - who was defending who? Two muslim nations killed each other and so many lives were lost. Muslims don't see that yet you cry foul and say infidels are occupying your land..

I am sure you are a Nigerian, who is attacking your land. You are not an Arab. The problem is Islam influences ones culture. How can an African like you complain that muslim lands are been invaded. You are a Nigerian, did America invade Nigeria?

Why must a non-muslim sign peace pact with a muslim to leave in peace with them? The Meccans and Mohammed signed peace pact but Mohammed broke it evening during the holy month of Ramadan.

Anyways - to Surah 9:29 ===> We need to consult the Hadith to know the TRUE INTERPRETATION of that verse and not what you are claiming it is or should be.

After all this - you will say you have provided PROOF

,Brother where's your proof that said prophet muhammed(pbuh)break the peace treaty? The truth is that, many people even some
muslims inclusive have the misconceptions
that any war fought by muslims whether
good or bad is called 'Jihad'.Brother,so any war fought by muslims is JIHAD?If you
translate 'Jihad' into Arabic Language is called
'Harabun Muqaddasa',but surprisingly no
where does this word 'Harabun Muqaddasa'
exist in the Qur'an or Authentic Hadith.
Meanwhile,'Jihad' is derived from the Arabic
word 'Jahdah' which means 'to strive &
struggle'.In fact in the full context,Jihad
basically means to strive & struggle against
one's own evil inclination.It basically means
to strive & struggle to make society better. It
basically means to strive & struggle against
oppression. It also means to strive & struggle
in the battle front in self defence.I'm aware
one of the forms of Jihad is Qital which is
fighting in the way of Almighty GOD in the
battle front,which even @ that you can only
fight those who fought you (that is the way
of GOD) strictly in the battle field against
oppression & aggression.But generally
speaking 'Jihad' does not basically mean
'Holy War' or killing innocent lives as most
people think.Brother talktome has said it all,it's like a waste of time arguing with you because you won't accept the truth...Peace brother.Muhammed(pbuh)wasn't the author of the quran,and nothing was my own interpretation.It's the interpretation of islamic scholars.

To your last claim,
''Kill the disbelievers wherever you find them.." [Quran 9:5]This verse,is been misquoted in a manner similar to other verses to prove terrorism in Islam and to make people hate it.It is also historically out of context.The full context is:
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them,and seize them,beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war);but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge. How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al- Masjid al-Haram?So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]. " [Quran 9:5-7] The verse once again refers to those pagans who would continue to fight after the period of peace. It clearly commands the Muslims to protect those who seek peace and are non- combatants. It is a specific verse with a specific ruling and can in no way be applied to general situations. The command of the verse was only to be applied in the event of a battle. As Abdullah Yusuf Ali writes: The emphasis is on the first clause: it is only when the four months of grace are past, andthe other party show no sign of desisting from their treacherous design by right conduct, that the state of war supervenes- between Faith and Unfaith. (Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur’an, Text, Translation and Commentary, emphasis added) Dr. Maher Hathout gives an explanation on the historical context of the verse: This verse was revealed towards the end of the revelation period and relates to a limited context. Hostilities were frozen for a three-month period during which the Arabs pledged not to wage war. Prophet Muhammad was inspired to use this period to encourage the combatants to join the Muslim ranks or, if they chose, to leave the area that was under Muslims rule; however, if they were to resume hostilities, then the Muslims would fight back until victorious.One is inspired to note that even in this context of war, the verse concludes by emphasizing the divine attributes of mercy and forgiveness. To minimize hostilities, the Qur'an ordered Muslims to grant asylum to anyone, even an enemy, who sought refuge. Asylum would be granted according to the customs of chivalry; the person would be told the message of the Qur'an but not coerced into accepting that message. Thereafter, he or she would be escorted to safety regardless of his or her religion. (9:6). (Hathout, Jihad vs. Terrorism; US Multimedia Vera International, 2002, pp.52-53, emphasis added) Ibn al-`Arabi, in his commentary on the Qur’an, writes: “It is clear from this that the meaning of this verse is to kill the paganswho are waging war against you.” (Ahkam al-Qur’an: 2/456, emphasis added) The verse 13 of the same chapter makes it clear that it is a self defensive verse revealed by Allah “Will you not fight people who broke their covenants and plotted to expel the Messenger and attacked you first?” [Sûrah al-Tawbah: 13]
Hope that answers it

To your second one,
''JIHAD['Qital'] (physical combat in war in the cause of God) is ordained for you (Muslims), though you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and like a thing which is bad for you.But God knows,and you know not." [Quran 2:216]
The first mistake in this translation is that this Quranic verse actually does not use the word “Jihad”.This verse actually uses the word “Qital”,which refers to physical combat in war.Combat is ordained for Muslims in order to defend themselves and their rights,as well as the rights of others. The obligation to physically defend one’s rights,and to establish justice was elaborated on in the previously mentioned article onJihad.It is sufficient to quote a verse from the Quran in this regard: "And what is wrong with you that you do not engage in combat for the sake of Allah, and for those weak, ill-treated and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help." [Quran 4:75] It is most certainly a duty of all human beings to help each other from oppression and injustice.This is what Islam teaches. Commenting on verse 2:216, Abdullah Yusuf Ali writes:To fight (combat) in the cause of Truth is one of the highest forms of charity.What can you offer that is more precious than your own life? But here again the limitations come in.If you are a mere brawler,or a selfish aggressive person, or a vainglorious bully, you deserve the highest censure.(Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur'an, Text, Translation and Commentary ) Abdul Majid Daryabadi writes on the verse 2:216: War, it has been truly said, is sanctioned by the law of nature – the constitution of man and the constitution of society – and is at times a biological and sociological necessity. Islam, the ideal and practical religion has allowed it, butonly in cases of sheer necessity. (Daryabadi,The Glorious Qur’an, emphasis added) When and why were Muslims commanded to fight, When was the verse revealed? Following verses might be revealed when Muslims were getting abused, killed and oppressed by Pagans. Yusuf Ali comments on the next verse that is 2:217 "The intolerance and persecution of the Pagan clique at Mecca caused untold hardships to the holy Messenger of Islam and his early disciples. They bore all with meekness and long-suffering patience until the holy one permitted them to take up arms in self-defence… (Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur'an, Text, Translation and Commentary) " In light of the above quote, it becomes apparent that fighting has been especially ordained in conditions of severe persecution and hardship. Consequently, the Muslims are required to defend themselves from oppression and establish justice. To abstain from helping those under oppression is cowardice,hope that answers that....Peace

Brother alexis,I promised to give you the explanations about all what you made about JIHAD.
The first one-''Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, [even if they are] of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." [Quran 9:29]
Some people have falsely concluded from verse 9:29, that Muslims are commanded to attack all non-Muslims until they pay money.In fact,such an interpretation is completely false and contradicts authentic Islamic teachings.Commenting on this verse,Shaykh Jalal Abualrub writes: These Ayat (Quranic verses) stress the necessity of fighting against the People of the Scripture, but under what conditions? We previously established the fact that the Islamic State is not permitted to attack non-Muslims who are not hostile to Islam, who do not oppress Muslims, or try to convert Muslims by force from their religion, or expel them from their lands, or wage war against them, or prepare for attacks against them. If any of these offenses occurs, however, Muslims are permitted to defend themselves and protect their religion. Muslims are not permitted to attack non-Muslims who signed peace pacts with them, or non-Muslims who live under the protection of the Islamic State. (Abualrub, Holy Wars, Crusades, Jihad) Shaykh Sayyid Sabiq writes about the Historical context of verse: As for fighting the Jews (People of the Scripture), they had conducted a peace pact with the Messenger after he migrated to Madinah. Soon afterwards, they betrayed the peace pact and joined forces with the pagans and the hypocrites against Muslims. They also fought against Muslims during the Battle of A`hzab , then Allah revealed… [and he cites verse 9:29] (Sayyid Sabiq, Fiqhu as-Sunnah, Vol. 3, p. 80) In light of the historical context of this verse, it becomes very clear that the verse was revealed in connection with agression initiated against Muslims. As Dr. Jamal Badawi very accurately concludes with regard to verse 9:29 and similar verses: All of these verses, without exception, if studied carefully, address aggression and oppression committed against Muslims at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), whether by idolatrous Arabs, some of the Jewish tribes in Madinah, or by some Christians,hope this clarifies your first claim...Peace.

Mr desika,you have been nailed here too.No matter how it is,truth will always prevail because when truth is hurled against falsehood,falsehood perishes because falsehood by its nature is bound to perish,may I join the thread brothers?

Mintayo: you have not explain anything,you have only expose the contradiction in ur book and call ur god a lie...may he forgive you.

I can see how ignorant you are,I have nothing to say on this again,where in my did I call ALLAH a liar? Subhanallah,you denied the quran and it's high time I left this forum.Salam alaikum.....Peace

alexis: It's not a matter of guidance or understanding. It's a matter of scholarship proof and evidence. Your sources are not AUTHORITATIVE AND CONCLUSIVE.

One thing I noticed about alexis is that he loves starring at the obvious truth,no wonder your christian brother even condemn you for that(remember the first time I debated concerning prophet saleh(pbuh)'s miracle).you failed to admit it to be a miracle....Guidance comes from only ALLAH....Peace brother.

Thank you brother tintingz for your support,after all the point I have provided it's still baffles some people don't understand.Not your fault their faults,guidance comes only from ALLAH.No matter how harder I try to explain to you,you won't understand because ALLAH's guidance hasn't come.Ours is to deliever the message,only ALLAH guide...ALLIAMUADULILAH I'm a muslim.......Peace brother.

Mintayo: my dear brother,please you need to go and find more details about Jihad(and probably learn more about arabic);it is in ur book,except you are claiming(not me but you) that there are contradictions in it;lets observe this very carefully...

Jihad(Muslim holy war) is ordained for you(muslims) and you disliked it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you.Allah knows but you do not know.( Sura 2:216 Al Hilali and Mushin Khan).

This is the 1st revelation of Allah to Mohammed when he first mobilized for jihad when he was looking for a way to convince his followers who fled and settled with him in Taif and later Yathrib(medina) after the death of his powerful wife(khadijah) and uncle(Abu talib) both of which meccans were afraid of.
HE DEFEATED them OFCOURSE AND OBVIOUSLY LOOTED THEM AND THSI ENCOURAGE THEM FOR OTHER JIHAD(THAT IS NOT DEFENSIVE MY BROTHER).
I don't want to go further because you people know the truth but you are just shying away from it.
There are so many jihad made by mohammed and Allah approved of them in the quran.
Reading Surah 9:41,allah told muslims to 'strive hard with your wealth and YOUR LIVES in His cause...(no wonder Iran is sponsoring terrorism and yet the citizens are sufferring).
What about those who had lost their lives(killed or you want examples?) in 'speaking against islam'? IS THAT DEFENSIVE??-WHO ARE YOU DEFENDING?
Servant of allah once said-''the purest joy in islam is to kill and be killed for allah".

"In order to achieve the victory of islam in the world,we need to PROVOKE repeated crises, restore value to the idea of DEATH and MARTYDOM. If iran has to vanish,that is not important. The important thing is to engulf the world in crises...1984;Ayatollah Khomeni.(pls don't tell me he is not a muslim).
My brother time will not permit me to continue...
But i will quickly add that your message of, 'jihad does not mean holy war' should be channelled to the appropriate quarters(i am sure you know what i mean),because those people need them more n they have not been able to convince us.

Brother,I challenge to point out the arabic word for ''holy war'' in the quran,if you are truthful.JIHAD means to strive and struggle in the way of ALLAH with your Life and wealth,to fight against oppression. Allah said in the glorious quran in surah Al-baqarah 2;109-''Many of the people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians) wish that if they could turn away you as disbelievers after you have believed,out of envy from their own selves,even after the truth has become manifest to them.But forgive and overlook till ALLAH brings his command.Verily,ALLAH is able to do all things''.
We realised the form of JIHAD in above verse is forgiveness.The concept of JIHAD keeps changing from time to time,you said when khadijat(RA) and Abu muttalib died,muslims fled makkah for medina,brother muslims didn't fled,ALLAH instructed them to leave makkah,they(pagans of makkah)were killing muslims and the rest of muslims wanted to fight back but ALLAH said NO,migrate to medina and leave makkah for them.That type of JIHAD is patience.One day,the wife of muhammed(pbuh) Aisha(RA) came to the prophet and asked;Can a woman participate in a war? The prophet replied;The best type of JIHAD for women is to perform hajj perfectly.So we realised JIHAD was changing time to time,and the JIHAD now is the JIHAD of words,hope that answers your questions....Peace Brother.

Thank you brother alexis,I will insha allahu still answer your question about JIHAD,but take the answer to your question about muslims in the west taking non-muslims as friends,consider the following quranic verses.

In surah Al-IMRAN 3;69-'a party of the people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians) wish to lead you astray.But they shall not lead anyone astray except themselves and they perceive not'.

In surah Al-IMRAN 3;72-''And a party of the people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians)say;believe in the morning in that which the muslims(believers),and reject it at the end of the day,so that they may turn back''.

In surah Al-IMRAN 3;98-99-''say;O people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians)! Why do reject the AYAT OF ALLAH(proofs,revelations)while ALLAH is witness to what you do?'' Say;O people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians)! Why do you stop those who have believed from the path of ALLAH,seeking to make it seem crooked,while you(yourselves) are witnesses(to muhammed(pbuh)being a messenger of ALLAH and that only ALLAHh deserved to be worship)? And ALLAH is not unaware of what you do''.

Surah Al-IMRAN 3;100-''O you who believe(muslims)! If you obey a group of those who were given the scriptures(Jews and Christians),they would indeed render you disbelievers after you have believed!

Surah Al-IMRAN 3;118-119-''O you who believe(muslims)! Take not as your bitanah(advisors,protectors,helpers,friends)those outside your religion(pagans,jews,christians and hypocrites)since they Will not fail to do their best to corrupt you.They desire to harm you severely.Hatred has already appeared from their mouths,but what their hearts conceal is far worse.Indeed we have made plain to you the AYAT(proofs,verses,evidences)if you understand''.
119)Lo! You are the ones who love them but they love you not,and you believe in all the scriptures(zaboor,torah,injeel and quran),while they disbelieve in your book(quran).And when they meet you,they say we believe.But when they are alone,they bite the tips of their fingers at you in rage.Say;perish in your rage.Certainly,ALLAH knows what is in the breasts(all the secrets)''.

Surah Al-mumtahanah 60;1-2-''O you who believe(muslims) take not my enemies and your enemies(i.e. Polytheists and disbelievers)as friends,showing affection towards them while they have disbelieved in what has come to you of the truth(the Quran and muhammed(pbuh))and yourselves because you believed in ALLAH,your lord.If you have come forth to strive in my cause and to seek my good pleasure,(then take not these people as friends).You show friendship to them in secret while I am all aware of what you conceal and reveal.And whosoever of you(muslims) does that,then he has gone astray from the straight path''.

2)Should they gain upper hand over you,they would behave to you as enemies and stretch forth their hands and their tongues against you with evil and desire that you should disbelieve''.

Surah Al-mumtahanah 60;8-9-''ALLAH doesn't forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion nor droves you out of your homes.Verily,ALLAH loves those who deal with equity''
9)It's only as regards those who fought against you on account of your religion and have driven you out of your homes and helped to drive out that ALLAH forbids you to befriend them.And whosoever will befriend them,then such are the zalimun(wrongdoers)''.
So Brother,ALLAH is telling muslims that it's better to take muslims as friends because non-muslims will do their the best to corrupt our faith.And that's the reason some muslims are leaving islam for other religions,they are absorbed with the friendship with non-muslims,hope that clarifies that....Peace brother.

So, if what you posted is right in Surah 2 & 5, is Allah lying in Surah 10 & 46?. Can God lie?[/quote]Thank you brother for your time,if you read all the verses I quoted you should notice the word 'a party',there was a group of the people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians) that adhere strictly to the injeel and torah before prophet muhammed(pbuh)came.As ALLAH said in the glorious Quran in surah Al-IMRAN 3;75-''Among the people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians) is he who if entrusted with a great amount of wealth,he will readily pay it back to you''.So it means not all the people of the book are corrupted.Consider this verse too
Surah Al-hadid 57;27-''Then we sent after then our messengers and we sent jesus(pbuh) the son of mary and gave him the injeel.And we ordained in the hearts of those who followed him compassion and mercy.But the monasticism which they invented for themselves,We didn't prescribe for them,but they sought it to please ALLAH therewith but that they didn't observe it with the right observance.So we gave [b/]THOSE[b/] among them who believed,their due reward but [b/]MANY[b/] are rebellious and disobedient to ALLAH''.
So you should understand that some people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians) followed strictly the injeel before muhammed(pbuh).When prophet muhammed(pbuh)migrated to medina,he met Jews and Christians who recited the injeel,but when muhammed(pbuh)read to them some verses of the quran they said;Truly,this is the word of ALLAH.That's what ALLAH meant by saying quran is the confirmation of the scriptures before it,and they later accepted muhammed(pbuh)as a messenger of ALLAH.The same with Abdullah bin Salam(RA),he was a christian and accepted islam when he realised the quran confirms the word of GOD with them.But the injeel has been corrupted as I proved.so as we muslims find somethings in today's bible(not injeel) that's in line with the confirmation of the scriptures(The Quran),then we accept it as GOD's word,if it contradicts we decline and if neither contradicts nor in line,then we leave it(won't accept or reject)I hope that answers your questions....Peace brother.

@Brother alexis,this is the concept of JIHAD you asked for.There's nothing like holy war in
islam.If you don't understand the concept
of JIHAD,just don't take words from the
media or what people do say.The arabic
word 'JIHAD' means to strive and to
struggle.The arabic word for 'holy war'
cannot be found in a single verse of the
quran.Allah commanded every muslim to
carry out JIHAD,to strive and struggle in the way
of Allah with your wealth and your
life in order to make the society a better place,free from oppression and people are free to choose their religion.During the lifetime of our beloved
prophet muhammed(pbuh),the common
type of jihad then was fighting,most of all
the wars muhammed(pbuh)participated
in was in self defence.As Allah said in the
glorious quran in surah Al-baqarah
2;190-192-'and fight in the way of Allah
those who fight you,but transgress not
the limits.Truly,Allah likes not the
transgressors.And kill them wherever you
find them,turn them out where they have
turned you out.And al fitnah(oppresion) is worse
than killing.And fight not with them at al
masjid al-haram unless they first attacked
you there.But if they attack you,then kill
them.Such is the recompense of
disbelievers.But if they cease,then Allah is
oft-forgiving most merciful'.So the above
verses are telling muslims to fight in self
defence and fight against oppression,tell me what's wrong with that?
Killing of innocent human beings is
forbidden in islam,as Allah said in the
glorious quran surah Al-maidah 5;32-'if
anyone kills a single innocent human
soul,it will be as if he has killed the whole
of humanity and if anyone saves a single
human soul,it will be as if he has saved
the whole of humanity'.Hope that answers your question...Peace brother.

nnofaith: so why didnt allah speak directly to we africans?

Brother,ALLAH said in the glorious quran in surah Hujurat 49;13-'O mankind! We have created you from a single pair of male and female and make you into tribes and nations so that you may know one another,not that you may despise another.Verily,the best among you in the sight of ALLAH is the one who with taqwa(piety,righteousness)'.So Brother,ALLAH doesn't talk directly to the humans but he chooses men amongst men(prophets)and communicate with them on a higher level(through revelations).The last and final messenger of ALLAH prophet muhammed(pbuh)wasn't send to the arabs or muslims alone,he was sent to the whole of mankind(africa,europe,asia etc).ALLAH said in the glorious quran in surah An-anbiyaa 21;107-'say(o muhammed(pbuh))I am sent to you all as a messenger to the whole of mankind''.So prophet muhammed(pbuh) was sent for everybody,no matter the colour or race.That's reason why there's dawah(invitation),hope that answers your question....Peace brother

I will insha allahu use this post to conclude the thing about the original injeel and Taurat and the bible.This will be my last post on that topic.Consider the following verses of the glorious Quran:


Surah Al-baqarah 2;75-76-'And when they(Jews) meet those who believe(Muslims),they say,'We believe',but when they meet one another in private,they say,'shall you(Jews) tell them(muslims) what ALLAH has revealed to you,that they(muslims) may argue with you(Jews) about it before your lord? Have you(Jews) then no understanding? Know they(Jews)not that Allah knows what they conceal and what they reveal?

Surah Al-baqarah 2;101-'And when there came to them a messenger of ALLAH(i.e. Muhammed(pbuh))confirming what was with them,a party of those who were given the scriptures(Jews and Christians) threw away the book of ALLAH behind their backs as if they did not know!'.

Surah Al-baqarah 2;146-''Those to whom We gave the scriptures(Jews and Christians) recognize him(muhammed(pbuh)) as they recognize their sons.But verily,a party of them conceal the truth while they know it(i.e. The qualities of prophet muhammed(pbuh))written in injeel and Taurat)''.

Surah Al-imran 3;187-''(And remember) when ALLAH took a covenant from those who were given the scriptures(Jews and Christians) to make it known and clear to mankind and not to hide it,but they threw it away behind their backs and purchased with it some miserable gain!And indeed worst is that which they bought''.

Surah Al-maidah 5;14-15-''And from those who call themselves christians,we took their covenant,but they have abandoned a good part of the message that was sent to them'.So we planted amongst them enmity and hatred till the day of judgement and ALLAH will inform them what they used to do''.

Brothers,it's clearly stated in the above verses that the Jews and christians have threw away the good part of the message revealed to them,disclosing a little.That's the reason I claimed the bible isn't the injeel,it may contain some GOD's word but a bulk of it are words of historians.Hope that clarifies that...Peace brothers.

Walah,I am tired of this thread,someone claiming no question has been answered after all that long run? Ha,are you afraid of the truth? Go back and read the thread from the beginning...Peace

nnofaith: africans fighting over the gods of those who enslaved them!
or is religion another form of slavery?! hmmmmmn!

Brother,the main purpose of our creation is for religion.ALLAH said in the glorious quran in surah Ad-dhariyat 51;56-'I(ALLAH) has not created jinns and mankind except to worship me'.So the sole purpose of Life is to worship the creator of heavens and the earth,our provider and sustainer and no one else.Religion is not slavery....Peace

Mintayo: same thing for me too,i was banned yesterday too...so much for 'tolerance'!

I am a non-muslim and you tell me that the bible is corrupt and the original has been lost-
i ask questions(is there a crime in that?)
1. Did quran say the bible is corrupt and lost?(i thought it said it was given to Jesus by Allahplease don't call him a lie).
2. What is the proof that it is lost and corrupt?who corrupt it? When was it corrupted?
3. Where is the original Bible? Can you produce it?(it just went off like that).
None has produced any answer yet.

Shalom.

Haha,brother please go back and read my posts concerning your questions....I have answered it all....Peace

Ha,alexis or soundpoint after all the proofs we have provided,yet you failed to believe.It's not your fault,ALLAH said in the glorious quran in surah Al-baqarah 2;18-'They are deaf,dumb and blind so they will never return to the right path'.Seriously,one thing I hate is when people do stare at obvious truth,brother ayenny has provided many proofs that the bible can't be 100% GOD's word,you can't even reply to a single one.Just asking the same question that has been answered...Peace brother.