₦airaland Forum

alexis: SO YUSUF ALI KNOWS BETTER THAN ALLAH ABI - PLEASE TRY AGAIN BECAUSE ALL YOU SAID MAKES NO SENSE AND WE KNOW THAT IS NOT WHAT THE QURAN THOUGHT.

Vedacool has told me your problems,you can't reason at all that's number one.You don't wanna learn about Islam,you said you found nothing glorious about the Quran and that's because your heart is sealed for the truth.It's high time I left this thread,go on with your brainwashed trinity.I have got exams to write...Peace

alexis: Stop contracting yourself Bros. Your attempt is very very very narrow and you didn't answer the question. Check the meaning of the word FIRST except of course you are saying Allah doesn't know what he is talking about.

If I said I took the first place in my class this semester. NO ONE ELSE CAN CLAIM FIRST PLACE EXCEPT OF COURSE I AM LYING. And that is what you are doing? Your Quran gave 3 different accounts on who the first muslim was. It always baffles me how muslims put words in Allahs mouth, as if He doesn't know what he is talking about.

Can you show me in the Quran where Allah said - because I communicate with my prophets on a different level, Muhammed was the first as well as Moses or Adam - CAN YOU SHOW ME THAT?

So, you haven't addressed the problem - at least not with Proof from your holy book. It's no suprise because we see muslims do it all the time . Please try again

The word used was believer.Brother,I thought you can reason but you just proved me wrong walah.You just don't wanna learn and it's so hard for You to accept the truth.It makes no sense wasting my time with you,people that can reason know that answers your question,grow up...Peace brother.

deSika: when brethren was mentioned in deut 2:4 the author put Esau there to clearly show wat he meant.

you scan the bible and check to see whether the arabs are once called Isreal brethren (i know yu wunt do this)


Deuteronomy 17:15 King James Version (KJV)
Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one , from among thy brethren , shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother. <<
Deuteronomy 18:18 King James Version (KJV)
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren , like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

am quite sure u understand english.
is there a difference between the first "among thy brethren" and the second one. is it not the same sentence.

i dont know wat to say about yu seriosly. yu have disappointed me bigtime. yu have allowed desperation to cloud your reasoning. is this wat yu say. the same word used in the same sentence spoken to the same people from the same person means differenr things. haba this is the height of desperation. among thy brethren when used with a "king" means among Isrealites. that same among thy brerhren wen used with a "prophet" means non jew. am dumbfounded at the height yu can get to.

bro do yu see that its the same word. among thy brethren. how can they mean different things in just a space of how many verses.

among thy brethren, king means jew.
among thy brethren, prophet means non jew. ha

SMHHFY (Shaking My Head Heavily for You)
this is just dumfounding as in i dont just know wat to make of u. the same sentence just a diference of office king and prophet makes it differnt. is this how you read your quran. you dash meaning to a word and later wen you find that same word used in the same context you dash it another meaning.

do yu realise that the king and the prophet has EXACTLY the same criteria which is "among thy brethren"

[If the prophet from among thy brethren is a non jew then a king with the same criteria among thy brethren is a non jew.] but

[if the king from among thy brethren is a jew then a prophet with the same criteria among thy brethren is also a jew]

SMHBFY Kai wonders they say will neva end.

Brother desika,really surprised sha.The mistake you made is 'THY AND THEIR'.The word ''THY BRETHREN'' was used in deuteronomy 17;15,the word ''THEIR BRETHREN'' was used in deuteronomy 18;18-19.Brother,don't muddle it up.Let's analysis first ''THY BRETHREN'',THY means according to Collins Dictionary ''associated in some way with 'YOU'.What's the meaning of 'THEIR BRETHREN,THEIR means associated in some way with the the people(them)in general,NOT including the SPEAKER or the PEOPLE addressed.
'THY BRETHREN' as used in deuteronomy 17;15 means associated with the jewish people only(You).What about 'THEIR BRETHREN' as used in deuteronomy 18;18-19,it means associated with the jewish people(in general) EXCLUDING the jewish people(people addressed)and the speaker(GOD).Abraham(pbuh)had two sons;Isaac(pbuh) and Ismael(pbuh),both are brothers(brethren),therefore their offsprings will be brethren of one another.In deuteronomy 18;18-19,they excluded the jewish people,that means the prophet prophesied will be from the people associated with them(jewish people)but not from them(jewish people).That's the arabs(they are associated with the jewish people,I explained that).
The second time you will disappoint me brother desika,you've allowed your rebuttal and unwillingness to agree that muhammed(pbuh)is the prophet prophesied in that verse cloud your reasoning.

SMHHFYT(Shaking My Head Heavily For You Too).I'm dumbfounded also,less I forget you haven't reply to my other claims....Peace brother.

To the creation of the earth and heavens.Heavens and the Earth created in 6days.I do agree that the Quran says that the heavens and the earth were created in 6 days i.e. 6 epochs and it is mentioned in Surah Al A'raf 7:54,Surah Yunus 10:3,Surah Hud 11:7 Surah Al Furqan 25:59, Surah Al Sajdah 32:4 Surah Qaf 50:38 as well as in Surah Al Hadid 57:4.The verses of the Qur'an which according to many non-muslims say that the heavens and the earth were created in 8 days are Surah Fussilat 41:9-12 "Say:Is it that you deny Him Who created the earth in 2 days? And do you join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds; He set on the (earth) mountains standing firm,High above it,and bestowed blessings on the earth,and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, In 4days equal,in accordance with (the needs of)Those who seek (sustenance)." Moreover,He Comprehended in His design the sky,and it had been(as)smoke.He said to it and to the earth."Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly.They said:"We do come (Together),in willing obedience." So He completed them as 7 firmaments in 2days and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command and We adorned the lower heaven with lights,and (provided it) with guard.Such is the decree of (Him) the exalted in might,full of knowledge." [Al-Quran Surah Fussilat 41:9-12]
On the face of it,it seems that these verses of the Quran give the initial impression that the heavens and the earth were created in 8days.Summa means moreover.If you analyse these verses carefully,it speaks about 2 different creations:the earth and the heaven.The earth excluding the mountains was created in 2days and the mountains were set on the earth standing firm and blessed and measured its sustenance in 4days. Therefore the earth along with the mountains was created in 6 days according to verse 9 and 10.Verse 11 and 12 says,moreover the heavens were created in 2 days.The Arabic word used in the beginning of verse 11 of Surah Fussilat is summa which means;'then' or 'moreover'.There are certain Qur'anic translations,which have used 'then' for the word summa which,indicates 'afterwards'.If 'then' is wrongly used for summa then the total of the creation of heaven and earth will be 8 days which will conflict with other verses of the Quran which says heavens and earth were created in 6 days and will also conflict with the Big Bang Theory as well as the verse of the Qur'an Surah Al ANBIYA 21:30 which says that heavens and the earth were created simultaneously.Therefore the correct translation of the word summa in this verse would be 'moreover'.Abdullah Yusuf Ali has rightly translated the word summa or moreover which clearly gives an indication that while the earth along with the mountains, etc. was created in 6 days simultaneously the heavens were created in 2days.Therefore the total does not come to 8days but 6days.As the earth was created in two days,the heavens too were created simultaneously with earth in that two days.Not different two days,then mountains were set on earth 4days,then it gives a total of 6days not 8days.Some people thought that the earth was created in a separate two and heavens in another separate two days,but it's wrong.Both were created simultaneously in two days,hope that clarifies that....Peace

alexis: Why are you trying to play pretend. WE ALL KNOW YOU WILL NEVER ACCEPT THE TRINITY. Since you couldn't relate to it, we gave you trivial examples, like:

1. An atom consisting of a proton, neutron and electron - Bone hook your throat and you started talking about decomposition on an atom - who said anything about decomposition.
2. I gave you another simple concept of Time, it can exist in the past, present and future. 3 distinct yet 1. You never answer me but you are here running around in Circles.

I HAVE TOLD YOU BEFORE - CHRISTIANS BELIEVE IN ONE GOD. The same authors that spoke about the GodHead were Jews that BELIEVED IN ONE GOD. CHRISTIANS DON'T BELIEVE IN 3 GODS - TRY AND GET THAT INTO YOUR HEAD.

While you are at it, please tell us:

1. How many days did Allah create the world
2. Who was the first muslim

Brother,I have explained your time claim.The answer to the muslim.You don't even give the
quotations the word used in the quran was 'Mumineen' meaning
'a believer' not 'Muslim'.And if we analyse every prophet is the first believer to
the people they were sent to,why?Because they will be the first
person to believe in the oneness of Allah before spreading the
message to the people,so none can call himself a believer before
his prophet because the prophet will be the first to believe,Allah
communicate with prophets on a higher level than other
humans.So the quran saying moses(pbuh) was the first believer
or adam(pbuh) was the first believer or muhammed(pbuh) was
the first believer is not wrong at all,if you don't understand the
quran,that doesn't mean the quran is wrong,hope that answers
your question....Peace

Mintayo: don't try and confuse yourself-i am not comparing the sun and d trinity-i am using d sun as an illustration. The sun exists as ONE but its MANIFESTs in two ways...do u go to school at all?
Same with God-He is one but He manifests in different ways-hence the trinity!(i am not comparing God with d sun).
I have evn given u scripures of wat the angel told mary,pls go back and read them!



go back to d post,i didnt say heat is d sun or light is d sun.



and they are right.



whose fabrication? Or concotions? It is a facts and a mystery which u cnt comprehend except u are born of God...AND WHAT U BELIEVE DOESN'T MATTER!


nobody is disputin that...the devil believ that too


You can decide to limit ur allah...but the christain God dwells in our heart through His Spirit...infact God speaks to us through His Spirit,for those that have being born-again!(like i said before...it is a mystery...it will only take an incorruptible mind to understand).

(do u knw that the quran says that JESUS is the Spirit of God that came into Virgin Mary)

I am not going to explain anything to you again...Seems that you decided not to understand...check the Bible verses i posted above about the birth of Jesus.
(Is God's own Spirit a seperate entity or part of Him?)

(God cease to be God if His NATURE and CAPABILITIES are only the things that can be logically reasoned out by the HUMAN MIND).

BYE.

Brother,I don't even pass through the gates of a school,I don't know what a school is.Let's see who is confuse now.You said the sun manifests into two ways;light and heat I agreed with that,but light and heat aren't equivalent to the sun.If you had said God manifest into two ways;the son and holy spirit but these two shouldn't be equal to God,but trinitarians claimed they are equal,that's I am telling you.They shouldn't be equal if you are using sun as an illustration.The father is greater than all.Can't you reason at all?Jesus(pbuh)said in the gospel of john 10;29-''my father is greater than all''.He also said in another verse that ''my father is greater than I''.How can they be equal then? God is greater than all,not equal to anybody.Allah said in the glorious quran in surah Ikhlas 112;1-4-''say;He's ALLAH,one and only.ALLAH the absolute,the eternal.He begets not nor was he begotten and there's none co-equal to him''.
The moment you can compare or equal something to God,that's not God.There's none co-equal with him.

Brother,ALLAH said in the glorious Quran that I am closer to my slave than his own jugular vein,if you remembers ALLAH,he remembers you.Nowhere in the quran doesn't it says that jesus(pbuh) is the spirit of ALLAH,it says jesus(pbuh) is a spirit(word) from ALLAH,a soul created by ALLAH not spirit of ALLAH.

Feel free,believe in your trinity ALLAH warns muslims against such fabrication and concoction.....Peace

deSika: just one thing I need u to help me do

Pls can yu explain "a king from among thy brethren " deut 17: 15

Brother,brethren can be used in two ways.Brethren mentioned in deutrenonmy 17;15 is brethren of the jewish people,among themselves.The brethren used in deuteronomy 18;18-19 is the brethren of the ancenstral brothers of the jewish people,not among themselves.The ancestral brethen is the jewish people are the arabs because abraham(pbuh) had two sons,isaac(pbuh) and ismael(pbuh),both are brothers since they are brothers,they are brethren of each other.Now isaac(pbuh)is a jew and ismael(pbuh)is an arab,so the jewish people are also the brethren of the arabs,hope I clarify that.I decided not to answer before because I have explained it in my former post,i don't like repeating words...Peace brother.

Mintayo: They are not my claims, they are BIBLICAL FACTS!
And your analysis does not matter-it can't change anything!

I know you understand,but you are just trying or decided to turn a blind eye. And i pray to God to give you understanding i.e if you really want to know-because it is a mystery that can only be understood by those that are BORN OF GOD not of the FLESH-after all we are dealing with GOD HIMSELF!
Are you really sure that you are ready to undestand this BIBLICAL TRUTH against what you have been told?

Shalom.

Brother,see your words you said ''WHAT's THE USE OF THE SUN WITHOUT HEAT AND LIGHT?''
That's means if we compare with trinity,then it will read ''WHAT's THE USE OF THE FATHER WITHOUT THE SON AND THE HOLY GHOST?''
That means God can't exist without the son and holy ghost(Subuhanallah).Brother,heat and light are products of the sun and they aren't equivalent to the sun i.e. Heat isn't the sun and light isn't the sun.But trinitarians do claim all these three-the father,the son and the holy spirit are the same i.e. The father is the son,the son is the holy spirit and the father is the holy spirit.If we are to compare with the sun,then the son and the holy spirit should be the products of the father,not the FATHER himself.Unfortunately,christians claim all these are one,they always sing a song the song goes thus;'JESUS,YOU ARE MIGHTY GOD YOU ARE MIGHTY GOD''.So this signifies jesus(the son)is also the father(God) and this against the theory of sun,hope I have made myself clear,i don't understand and comprehend a fabrication,a concoction.God is one and doesn't dwell in anyone,not changing to anything....Peace

Mintayo: please that is not my name.



what is the use of the Sun without heat and light?
now i understand why u don't understand alexis; just as in the sun,there are both heat and light,but light is not heat and vice versa,but both are one,THOUGH THEY HAVE DIFFERENT FORMS IN THEIR MANIFESTATION!.
Jesus and the Holy Spirit proceed from the Father(God)-they are not THREE but one ,just as the sun is but one!




Like i said before,nobody is disputing that-God is one;it is only that ur mind has been programed(by quran or ur mullahs)that we have three Gods-NO!



like i said before that is what you have been told;but it is not true!
Atom is one...the sun is ONE.

LUKE 1:35
The Angel replied," The HOLY SPIRIT(of God) will come upon you,and the power of the MOST HIGH(God) will overshadow you. So the baby to be born will be HOLY and He will be called the SON OF GOD.

The Holy Spirit(of God) proceeds from the Father(God) and entered Mary and she concieved and produced Jesus(the son).-

Please,where are the threes in the above?
No christain will tell you otherwise.

Brother mintayo,before I reply to your claims above,my question is are trying to say that the son and the holy spirit are products of the father,just like heat and light are products of the sun? If you can answer that correctly,then I will analyse the above claim....Peace

Mintayo: I doubt if they wil ever understand the concept,no matter how much you explain-it is a mystery that their 'corruptible' mind won't grasp-despite ur explanation!

The sun is one,yet it has HEAT and LIGHT! We get heat and light from the sun;does that makes it two? NO!
God is ONE-NO CHRISTAIN BELIEVE OTHERWISE!
THE BIBLE DOESN'T TEACH TRINITY;THAT IS NOT WHAT WE HAVE IN THE BIBLE!
TRINITY EXPLAINS THE WAYS BY WHICH GOD MANIFESTS!

Mister bolean,here you are with your 'Sun' theory again.Let this be clear to you,before you can make comparison make sure the things you are comparing have at least two things in common,at least two features comparable.Brother alexis,how can you use time to explain the concept of trinity? Is the father the past tense?,The Son the present tense? and the holy spirit the future tense? Or another way round?.The past is gone,you can't change it,the future isn't here you can't predict it and Jesus(pbuh)said in the gospel of matthew 24;36-'But of that day and hour knoweth no man,not the angels of the but my father only''(Only God knows the future).If you use time to explain trinity,then every member of your trinitarians should have knowledge about the 'day and hour''.Jesus(pbuh)don't even have knowledge about the hour nor the holy spirit that doesn't exist,the knowledge of the hour is with the one GOD,he's not changing form he knows everything about the past,he knows the present and only him knows what everyone will earn in the future.God is omnisscience


To mister bolean,the sun is a body its products are heat energy and light energy.Without the sun,there's no heat nor light.Now tell me the father won't exist without the son and the fake holy spirit? God is omnipotent,he exists alone he doesn't need anybody to be part of him.The only thing you guys are comparing is because all your claims are in threes,so God can be in 3persons but still one.It's wrong,try and compare the otherwise....Peace

alexis: I never said the bible was created before the beginning of the world. I said your Quran made that claim that is was in heaven before the creation of the world - please re-read.

Dude,I don't know where you got the belief that Christians worship 3 Gods, clearly - you are not a muslim scholar, so don't claim to be an AUTHORITY on the Bible either. CHRISTIANS BELIEVE IN ONE GOD. How many times do you want to hear it?

Brother,where in the Quran does it says that the bible has been in existence before the creation of the earth? I need references,maybe you have visited your anti-islamic sites again.I may not be a scholar,but I am student of comparative religions.....Peace

alexis: Dude - you can DENY the trinity, you can refute it, however - you can't CHANGE it. I gave a simple analogy for you to understand the Trinity BUT you ignored that and started talking about DECOMPOSITION OF AN ATOM. You miss the point by a MILE mate. Your statements CONFIRM that you understand what I am talking about but you are still refuting the Trinity. You have been doing that from jump start.

1. Initially you asked for us to EXPLAIN - we did and provided an example using the ATOM as an analogy so you can understand that the parts can function together YET STILL BE ONE
2. You understood it BUT came back and talked about decomposition of an ATOM as if that is the POINT we are talking about
2. We gave you the example of one man - composing of a body, soul and spirit. You UNDERSTAND IT yet you left the POINT been made and decided to deviate and talk about a man living without those parts

So again, it is enough for me that you understand it - you don't have to believe it

Haha,who understands it? I can never comprehend a fabrication,a concoction.Just made an analysis of what you put forward.Make proper analysis before comparing things,GOD IS ONE not THREE IN ONE...peace

alexis: If Mohammed came down and told him the Trinity was TRUE - he wouldn't believe. The same way he doesn't believe Boko Haram are muslims

Brother,if trinity is so important in Christianity,why doesn't jesus(pbuh) preached about it? It's a concept that was introduced 300years after the death of christ(pbuh).None of his disciples believed in trinity,jesus(pbuh) preached only one God,but they have brainwashed you sha with that concept of trinity.In 1991,the pope that just resign in recent put forward that your bible should be re-written,and mary(pbuh) should be included in the three to become four people in one,ha so absurd.If trinity has been something that has basis in christianity,why would the pope suggested mary(pbuh)should be added.It's just a fabrication,a concoction.I wonder what they would called it if the suggestion was taken in,[b]QUADRANT[b/]Lolz.....Peace

alexis: And how many times did I confirm to you that the word TRINITY doesn't exist in the Bible. I made the very clear to you and did confirm it. The word GodHead exist and Christians term it the Trinity - Which is the SAME THING.

How can you use your Quran to prove the Bible Oh? The Bible existed 600 years before your Quran "that was created before the beginning of the world" appeared.

The Fallacy of False Assumptions: In logic as well as in law, "historical precedent" means that the burden of proof rests on those who set forth new theories and not on those whose ideas have already been verified. The old tests the new. The already established authority judges any new claims to authority.

Since Islam came along many centuries after Christianity, Islam has the burden of proof and not Christianity. The Bible tests and judges the Qur'an. When the Bible and The Qur'an contradict each other, the Bible must logically be given first place as the older authority. The Qur'an is in error until it proves itself.

Some Muslims violate the principle of historical precedent by asserting that Islam does not have the burden of proof and that the Qur'an judges the Bible.

Brother,haha where's the proof that the bible existed before the creation of the world? The bible and the Quran don't contradict on the concept of God,they may contradict on other things.It's your church teachings and your bible that contradicts on the concept of God.The bible said there's only one God but they have brainwashed you in your church with 3-in-1 concept of God.We aren't fools bro,do you believe in historical precedent now? And you told me not to use that to proof JIHAD,the reasons while verses were revealed using the seerah of the prophet.....Peace

alexis: You accuse others of going in circles. How many times have Christians provided an answer to you YET you state your position on the GodHead in the Bible? Again, no one is asking you to believe it. You can find the Trinity/GodHead unbelievable, that is fine. As far as you understand an atom can consist of a proton, neutron and electron - the concept of the Christian GodHead should not be rocket science to you - except you have no knowledge of basic Physics. So, while you refuse and reject it - it doesn't make it any less true.

Haha,here you are alexis with rubbish to prove trinity that never exist in your bible.The other time I dismantled your water claim,now it's atom.Reason before making comparison.
Atom is made up of three particles-proton,neutron and electron,so God can also exist in 3 persons-Father,son and holy ghost?.Brother,if one particle of the atom is lost there's nothing like atom again.If neutron is lost,no atom now tell me is holy ghost or the son are lost,there won't God-the father anymore?
You even use Human being body,soul and spirit,brother that's composition of man.Without body,soul and spirit can't live.Now tell without Son and Holy ghost,the Father can't live,don't you know God is forever? The absolute,the eternal,he doesn't need anyone to be part of him.
Just curious.....Peace

Salam alaikum,I don't know there's a thread where new muslims introduce themselves.I should have introduce myself earlier,joined nairaland last month.I am Akande Zubair Olanrewaju from Ibadan,a Jambite.Just curious to learn new things about my deen,and try as much as possible to clear misconceptions about Islam,potrait the real Islam to non-muslims......Peace brothers and sister,may ALLAh makes us strong on the deen.

Mintayo: Thank you,so typical of you,and i am not surprised!
Just because i refused to accept your LIES,you have resolved to call me names and abuse me...i am not surprised! Even when the truth is lying in front of you,you will decide to follow LIES,everybody is not like that my friend

44. For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a MURDERER from the begining. He has always hated the TRUTH, because there is no TRUTH in him. When he LIES,it is onsistent with his CHARACTER; for he is a LIAR and the FATHER of LIES.
45. So when i tell you the TRUTH,you just NATURALLY don't believe me. John 8:44-45.

shalom with love.

Mr mintayo,I am not abusing you just any advice,free one.I'm just fed up replying you because you don't care about other people's opinions,what you know must be the correct one and that's not true sometimes.....Peace brother

Mintayo: really? Who? Allah? Stop lying to urself-without mohammed there wnt be any islam-are u denying mohammed?



that is for mohammed,Jesus didnt come to preach allah!


tell that to bokoharam,aqueda etc...after all they r d ones killing with 'allahu akbar' in their mouth!



continue to lie to urself again-i don't want to go into that again!
Those defenseless ppl he killed were enemies of allah? Ok o,we know the truth anyways!



really? So where does that leave bokoharam,alqueda,etc....and iran,saudi

.

He(Jesus) brought Grace and Truth...redemption and reconciliation to God.
And who am i following? You?


i know u ppl have a bad concept of trinity and dis is not d right thread for that;u don't know Jesus,He is 'The Son of God'! I am not talking abt the Jesus in ur book.



really? What abt those muslims songs we watch on tv;don't they use drums,keyboard? Are they muslim?what abt those muslims that do vigils every friday nights, are they following mohammed? Are they muslims?...don't throw stone when u live in a glass house!

Mr bolean,I can't keep wasting my time replying you because your brain rating is very low,you can't reason and assimilate easily,my advice for you get yourself a memory card,maybe 128MB and a RAM of 56MB,maybe that may help you to process information very faster...Peace

deSika: i dont see where yu answered my 4th question. what does deut 17:15 mean when it says a king from among thy brethren. the same term with a prophet from among thy brethren.

if the prophet is a non jew. then the king also shud be from non jew. as they are exactly the same term "from among thy brethren"

if the king is a jew then the prophet is a jew. the last time i checked. no non jew has been a king in Isreal and if that is the case then no non jew prophet is spoken about here.

i rest my case

I have explained the usage of the word 'brethren' in the old testament,the
‘brethren’ mentioned here are the brethren of the Jewish people.
Now Abraham, the forefather of the Jewish nation had two sons,
Ishmael and Isaac (Genesis 21).The children of Isaac are the cousins
of the children of Ishmael.The children of Isaac are the Jews and the
children of Ishmael are the Arabs.‘Brethren’ in the language of the
Old Testament can refer to the Jews themselves (Numbers 32: 6), or
to the ancestral cousins of the Jews such as the Arabs,Edomites and
others.So the 'brethren' in deuteronomy is referring to the ancestral cousins of the jews,the arabs....Peace

deSika: wrong answer
do u realize that if they were expecting a non jew prophet they would not be asking jews such question.

so this is my point:
the expected prophet was supposed to be a jew. this explains why they asked fellow jews that question.

imagine if the next vc of my school has been slated to come from outside the school. i wud not be asking the professors in my school whu qualify for the post whether they are likely to be the next vc.

Brother,Allah said in the glorious quran in surah Al-baqarah 2;146-''Those to whom the scriptures(Jews and Christians)recognize him(muhammed(pbuh)as they recognize their sons.But verily a party of them conceal the truth while they know it(qualities of muhammed(pbuh)which are written in injeel and torah).''
So brother,the jews also know about a prophet to come after jesus(pbuh)but they conceal the truth.


For the sake of argument brother,if the jews weren't expecting a prophet,why did they quizzed john,the baptist(pbuh)about it? My question is that if muhammed(pbuh) isn't the prophet prophesied in the gospel of john,then who's that? I'm just curious.....Peace

deSika: my second point
guy yu r trying so hard but its not working.

The deutronomy 18 verse says "like me" and does not say how he will be like him. So lets take the word "like" for what it is.
Is Muhamad like Jesus in anyway. Yes according to you
Is Muhamad like Moses in anyway. Yes according to you.
So therefore you cant say Muhammad is like Moses and Jesus is not like Moses. Since Jesus and Muhammad are alike. [i guess you did not think about this before making this point]

My friend Jesus is like Moses.

Brother,the only similarity between jesus(pbuh) and moses(pbuh)is that they were both jews,I said that in my post and I have given you many similarities between moses(pbuh)and muhammed(pbuh).And moreover,why can you choose jesus(pbuh)only? He wasn't the only jewish prophet after moses(pbuh),in fact john,the baptist(pbuh) also fits in,he's also like moses(pbuh),in what way? They are both jews,so that analysis of yours is wrong.The prophecy was referring to a single prophet that will be like moses(pbuh),jesus(pbuh) can't fit in without Considering all other jewish prophets,muhammed(pbuh) is the person prophesied.Brother,don't let muddle things up,muhammed(pbuh)was like jesus(pbuh)in the gospel of john,and not deuteronomy...Peace

@truthman,so brother if you read that story with great care,you should realised Allah ordered abraham to settle hajar and ismael in the arabian peninsula,not abandon.According to the glorious quran,Allah said in surah Al-imran 3;65-67-''O people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians)! Why do you dispute about abraham(pbuh),while the torah and injeel were not revealed after him? Have you no sense?''
67)Abraham(pbuh)was neither a jew nor a christian,but he was a true muslim hanifa(he worshipped none but one true God-Allah).''

I can conclude abraham(pbuh)and his son ismael(pbuh)built the kabba,abraham(pbuh) didn't live in arabia peninsula,but he do visit his son and wife,he didn't abandon them.....Peace

After Ishmael's mother had died,Abraham came after Ishmael's
marriage in order to see his family that he had left
before,but he did not find Ishmael there.When he asked
Ishmael's wife about him,she replied, 'He has gone in
search of our livelihood.' Then he asked her about their way of
living and their condition, and she replied,'We are
living in misery;we are living in hardship and destitution,'
complaining to him.He said, 'When your husband returns,
convey my salutation to him and tell him to change the threshold
of the gate (of his house).' When Ishmael came,
he seemed to have felt something unusual,so he asked his wife,
'Has anyone visited you?' She replied, 'Yes, an
old man of so-and-so description came and asked me about you
and I informed him, and he asked about our state
of living, and I told him that we were living in a hardship and
poverty.'On that Ishmael said, 'Did he advise you
anything?' She replied, 'Yes, he told me to convey his salutation to
you and to tell you to change the threshold of
your gate.' Ishmael said, 'It was my father and he has ordered
me to divorce you.Go back to your family.' So,
Ishmael divorced her and married another woman from amongst
them (i.e. Jurhum).
Then Abraham stayed away from them for a period as long as
Allah wished and called on them again but did not
find Ishmael.So he came to Ishmael's wife and asked her about
Ishmael. She said, 'He has gone in search of our
livelihood.' Abraham asked her, 'How are you getting on?'asking
her about their sustenance and living.She
replied, 'We are prosperous and well-off (i.e. we have everything
in abundance).'Then she thanked Allah' Abraham
said,'What kind of food do you eat?'She said. 'Meat.' He said,
'What do you drink?'She said, 'Water." He said, "O
Allah!Bless their meat and water." The Prophet added,"At that
time they did not have grain,and if they had grain,
he would have also invoked Allah to bless it." The Prophet added,
"If somebody has only these two things as his
sustenance,his health and disposition will be badly affected,
unless he lives in Mecca." The Prophet added," Then
Abraham said Ishmael's wife,"When your husband comes, give
my regards to him and tell him that he should keep
firm the threshold of his gate.' When Ishmael came back,he
asked his wife,'Did anyone call on you?' She replied,
'Yes,a good-looking old man came to me,' so she praised him
and added.'He asked about you, and I informed him,
and he asked about our livelihood and I told him that we were in a
good condition.'Ishmael asked her,'Did he give
you any piece of advice?' She said, 'Yes,he told me to give his
regards to you and ordered that you should keep
firm the threshold of your gate.'On that Ishmael said, 'It was my
father,and you are the threshold (of the gate).He
has ordered me to keep you with me.'
Then Abraham stayed away from them for a period as long as
Allah wished and called on them afterwards.He saw
Ishmael under a tree near Zam-Zam,sharpening his arrows.
When he saw Abraham,he rose up to welcome him
(and they greeted each other as a father does with his son or a
son does with his father).[b/]Abraham said, 'O
Ishmael!Allah has given me an order.' Ishmael said,'Do what
your Lord has ordered you to do.'Abraham asked,
'Will you help me?' Ishmael said, 'I will help you.' Abraham said,
Allah has ordered me to build a house here,'
pointing to a hillock higher than the land surrounding it."The
Prophet added,"Then they raised the foundations of
the House (i.e. the Ka'ba)[b].Ishmael brought the stones and
Abraham was building, and when the walls became high,
Ishmael brought this stone and put it for Abraham who stood
over it and carried on building,while Ishmael was
handing him the stones, and both of them were saying,'O our
Lord! Accept (this service) from us, Verily, You are
the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.' The Prophet added, "Then both
of them went on building and going round the
Ka'ba saying:O our Lord ! Accept (this service) from us,Verily,
You are the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing." (Q2.127),Eod

truthman2012: @ lanrexlan

Abraham abandoned Hagar and Ishmael even though it didn't please him to do so. He had to obey Sarah because God supported her to send them away (Genesis 21:9-12).

God promised to make Ishmael great because of the love He had for Abraham afterall he was his seed but outside legitimate marriage. It was for illegitimate marriage between Abraham and Hagar that God sanctioned their sending away.

Correction - it was not Abraham who settled Hagar and Ishmael in Paran, Arabia. Abraham only prepared them for the journey and sent them away (Gen. 21:14).

You said when Abraham wanted to lay the foundation of Kaaba, he visited Ishmael and told him his mission. Although there is no authoritative source of this statement but if it is true it further confirms that Abraham and Ishmael were not living together in Arabia. How then was the black stone sent to both of them in Arabia?

I pray God will give you understanding to see how the Devil tricks people into believing errors.

Brother,I don't want to give the full story about the building of the kabba in the hadith,but since you requested for it.This is it,in sahih bukhari,volume 004, Book 055, Hadith Number 583
Narated By Ibn Abbas: The first lady to use a girdle was the
mother of Ishmael.She used a girdle so that she might
hide her tracks from Sarah. Abraham brought her and her son
Ishmael while she was suckling him,to a place near
the Ka'ba under a tree on the spot of Zam-Zam,at the highest
place in the mosque.During those days there was
nobody in Mecca nor was there any water So he made them sit
over there and placed near them a leather bag
containing some dates,and a small water-skin containing some
water and set out homeward.Ishmael's mother
followed him saying, "O Abraham!Where are you going, leaving
us in this valley where there is no person whose
company we may enjoy nor is there anything (to enjoy)?" She
repeated that to him many times,but he did not look
back at her Then she asked him,"Has Allah ordered you to do
so?"He said,"Yes." She said, "Then He will not
neglect us,and returned while Abraham proceeded onwards,
and on reaching the Thaniya where they could not
see him,he faced the Ka'ba,and raising both hands, invoked Allah
saying the following prayers:
'O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring dwell in a valley
without cultivation,by Your Sacred House (Kaba at
Mecca)in order,O our Lord, that they may offer prayer perfectly.
So fill some hearts among men with love towards
them, and (O Allah) provide them with fruits, so that they may
give thanks.' (Q14.37)Ishmael's mother went on
suckling Ishmael and drinking from the water(she had).
When the water in the water-skin had all been used up,she
became thirsty and her child also became thirsty.She
started looking at him (i.e. Ishmael)tossing in agony; She left him,
for she could not endure looking at him,and
found that the mountain of Safa was the nearest mountain to her
on that land.She stood on it and started looking
at the valley keenly so that she might see somebody,but she
could not see anybody.Then she descended from
Safa and when she reached the valley, she tucked up her robe and
ran in the valley like a person in distress and
trouble,till she crossed the valley and reached the Marwa
mountain where she stood and started looking,expecting
to see somebody,but she could not see anybody. She repeated
that (running between Safa and Marwa)seven
times."
The Prophet said, "This is the source of the tradition of the walking
of people between them (i.e.Safa and Marwa).
When she reached the Marwa (for the last time) she heard a voice
and she asked herself to be quiet and listened
attentively.She heard the voice again and said, 'O, (whoever you
may be)! You have made me hear your voice;
have you got something to help me?" And behold!She saw an
angel at the place of Zam-Zam,digging the earth
with his heel (or his wing),till water flowed from that place.She
started to make something like a basin around it,
using her hand in this way, and started filling her water-skin with
water with her hands,and the water was flowing
out after she had scooped some of it."
The Prophet added, "May Allah bestow Mercy on Ishmael's
mother!Had she let the Zam-Zam (flow without trying to
control it) (or had she not scooped from that water) (to fill her
water-skin),Zam-Zam would have been a stream
flowing on the surface of the earth." The Prophet further added,
"Then she drank (water) and suckled her child.
The angel said to her, 'Don't be afraid of being neglected, for this is
the House of Allah which will be built by this boy
and his father,and Allah never neglects His people.' The House
(i.e. Kaba) at that time was on a high place
resembling a hillock,and when torrents came, they flowed to its
right and left. She lived in that way till some people
from the tribe of Jurhum or a family from Jurhum passed by her
and her child,as they (i.e. the Jurhum people) were
coming through the way of Kedar'.They landed in the lower part
of Mecca where they saw a bird that had the habit
of flying around water and not leaving it.They said, 'This bird
must be flying around water,though we know that
there is no water in this valley.'They sent one or two messengers
who discovered the source of water,and
returned to inform them of the water.So,they all came (towards
the water)."The Prophet added, "Ishmael's mother
was sitting near the water.They asked her,'Do you allow us to
stay with you?" She replied,'Yes, but you will have
no right to possess the water.'They agreed to that." The Prophet
further said,"Ishmael's mother was pleased with
the whole situation as she used to love to enjoy the company of
the people.So,they settled there,and later on
they sent for their families who came and settled with them so
that some families became permanent residents
there.The child (i.e. Ishmael) grew up and learnt Arabic from
them and (his virtues) caused them to love and
admire him as he grew up,and when he reached the age of
puberty they made him marry a woman from amongst
them.
To be continued

so
1. if they were expecting a prophet from outside Isreal why were they asking fellow isrealites whether they were 'that prophet'

2. what does "from among thy brethren" mean in deut 17:15. is the king from among thy brethren a non isrealite too.

thank you[/quote]I have answered your second question with the other post,To the first one,brother the jews quizzed john,the baptist(pbuh)about those three people,elijah,christ and 'the prophet'.So there's nothing wrong if they asked their fellow people because christ was a jew so was elijah.And they don't know the order by which these three people will arrive,that's why they quizzed john,the baptist(pbuh)about them,hope that answers that....Peace brother.

deSika: thanks for the compliment

If Jesus and Muhammad are alike enough that Muhammad can be the one
prophesied in John 14:16, then they are similar enough for Jesus to
also fit the qualifications to have been the prophet of Deuteronomy
18. you can’t have it both ways. Its either Muhammad is like Jesus in
John's gospel or he is not like Jesus in Deuteronomy. Which one is it?
lets put ut another way if Mohamed is 'like' Moses and also like Jesu it means that Jesus is also like Moses. this nullifies the Jesus is not like Moses statement.


so i went to deut 2:4 and it states exactly my number 3 point above. that the brethren of Isreal is Esaus descendant and not Ishmealites. and it even makes it clear whom it is referring to. lets read it

Deu 2:4 And command thou the people, saying, Ye [are] to pass through the coast of your brethren the children of Esau, which dwell in Seir; and they shall be afraid of you: take ye good heed unto yourselves therefore:

there is no where in the bible where the Ishmealites are reffered to as brethren of Isreal. if you see it pls let me know



i have already dislodged this statement in my above post. if Jesus is like Mohamed and Mohamed is like Moses therefore Jesus is like Moses

Thank you brother,God was making a promise to moses(pbuh) in deuteronomy,jesus(pbuh) made the prophecy about the comforter(muhammed(pbuh)in john's gospel.It's different,if you said jesus(pbuh)is like moses(pbuh),in what way? They were both jews,agreed but they were many jewish prophets after moses(pbuh),so not only jesus(pbuh) was a jewish prophet.If you said the prophecy in deuteronomy was for jesus(pbuh),then all other jewish prophets like john,the baptist(pbuh) fits the prophecy.But God said 'a prophet' like unto moses(pbuh).
According to the Bible,God made a promise to Abraham about his
descendants:I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant
between me and you and your descendants after you for the
generations to come, to be your God and the God of your
descendants after you.(Genesis 17: 7)
This covenant was fulfilled,God sent Prophets from the descendants
of Isaac to the Jews(e.g. Solomon, David, Joseph, Jacob,John,the
Baptist,Moses,Joshua,Aaron,Jesus etc.).But the promise that was
made to Abraham was to all of his descendants.So it makes sense
that Prophets would also be sent from the descendants of
Abraham’s other son, Ishmael.In the Old Testament, God singled
out the descendants of Ishmael (the Arabs)for a particular blessing:
“And, as for Ishmael,I have heard you: I will surely bless him;I will
make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers.He will be
the father of twelve rulers,and I will make him into a great
nation”[Genesis 17;20]
According to the verse above, God tells Abraham about a ‘Great
Nation’ to come from Ishmael.This is another reason why God
would send Prophet amongst the Arabs.How could God call a
nation great if the inhabitants were to be unbelievers?Their
greatness is defined by their belief and obedience to God.We see
that Muhammad (pbuh)fits into the description of a Prophet from
the descendants of Ishmael;the Prophet who called people back to
the Religion of Abraham(pbuh).Muhammad (pbuh)did,indeed come from
that nation of rulers mentioned in Genesis 17: 20.The book of
Genesis tells us that Abraham left his wife (Hagar) and Ishmael to
settle in ‘Paran’ (Genesis 21: 21),which according to historians is in
Arabia.Ishmael grew up and settled in Arabia and had twelve sons
one of whom was called ‘Kedar’ (Genesis 25: 13).Isaiah 21:13-17
confirms that the descendants of Kedar were in Arabia.It is well
known that Muhammad (pbuh)was a direct descendant of Kedar,hope that clarifies that....Peace

GooseBaba: Wait oo... So you mean say only Christians and Muslims are child of god..?! Why won't you be confused... You know your god from pages of literature not from your essence...not from your reality... Not from seeking your path within the realities of the cosmo...Address away ....

Wow,i got you brother no muslim ever claim to be the child of God,we are his servants,he created us from dust and our purpose is worship him alone.Do you believe in big bang theory? Maybe we can start from there,just do some reasoning together...Peace

deSika: @ lanrexlan
if they were expecting a prophet from outside country do you ask yourself why they wud be asking their fellow jews whether they were that prophet.

2. permit me to ask u dis question i have been asking Vedaxcool.


3. among thy brethren would mean among your brothers. which means among yourselves. but even if one were to follow your logic the brothers of Isreal (Jacob) would be Esau and not Ishmael. Ishmael would be the brethren of Isaac. that means distant relations to Isreal

4. in addition to above. pls compare the following.

Deuteronomy 17:15 King James Version (KJV)
Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one , from among thy brethren , shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother. <<

Deuteronomy 18:18 King James Version (KJV)
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren , like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

so tell me the king from among thy brethren is he supposed to come from outside Isreal

Brother,that's one thing I love about you,you don't beat around the bush like alexis and mintayo,you address the question directly.To your questions,in the gospel of john,the comforter is like jesus(pbuh) in the sense that,jesus(pbuh) preached and believed in the oneness of God,so does the comforter(muhammed(pbuh).Prophet muhammed(pbuh) said in an authentic hadith that; I am the closest to the jesus(pbuh),the son of mary prophets are brothers,their mothers are different but their message is the same.To that deuteronomy,brother God was talking to moses(pbuh) not jesus(pbuh).God promised to raised a prophet like unto moses(pbuh).In this prophecy,God was telling Moses that he would raise a
Prophet like him,who would be from ‘among their brethren’.Since
these verses were directed to Moses and the Jewish People the
‘brethren’ mentioned here are the brethren of the Jewish people.
Now Abraham(pbuh),the forefather of the Jewish nation had two sons,Ishmael and Isaac (Genesis 21).The children of Isaac are the cousins
of the children of Ishmael.The children of Isaac are the Jews and the
children of Ishmael are the Arabs.‘Brethren’ in the language of the
Old Testament can refer to the Jews themselves(Numbers 32: 6)or
to the ancestral cousins of the Jews such as the Arabs, Edomites and
others.(see Deuteronomy 2: 4-8 for usage of the word ‘brethren’).
So the Arabs are considered the brethren of the Jews -Muhammad
(Arab) and Moses (Jew).In addition to this,the
verse informs us that the Prophet will have the characteristic of
being someone who is ‘like’ Moses. Jesus was very different to
Moses,but what about Muhammad (pbuh)?Moses and Muhammad have fathers and mothers;Both of them
went into
Exile–Moses to the land of Median and Muhammad to Yathrib (now
Medina);
Both worked as shepherds for their employers;Both were married
and had children;Both were given laws and Both of them
died and were buried....Peace

GooseBaba: Dude am a child of God.. I bask in glory all day every day... I harness the gift bestow upon me..the difference between me and you is that your god wrote a book that is open for ridicule, mine did not write a book, therefore, I seek my path to grace. My God is a force of life. It's like saying oxygen has a Virgin;al. It makes no sense..yours created you in his image that's why it hurts when a nobody makes fun...

Brother are you an atheist or a christian? Because you said you are a child of God and only christians claim that,you also said your God don't write a book,just confuse.Want a reply cos I feel like addressing your comments...Peace

mathematician: seun 4 ur info i have 96 account. so u go ban u go tire and allah is a fvcking god and seun fvcks ash.awo nya.sh

Brother,you are older enough to compose yourself I think.If you have nothing good to say,then keep shut.Why posting rubbish? Do you reason before typing words or your hands just write without proper thinking,grow up and behave maturely...Peace

truthman2012: @ ayenny02

Hagar was not Abraham's wife, she was a maid. Other women (including Hagar) who bore children for Abraham were not wives but concubines (Genesis 25:5-6). Concubine means man living with a woman not lawfully married to. Abraham sent all other children away except Isaac, the son from his legitimate wife.So Hagar was not Abraham's legitimate wife.

Abraham was from Mesopotamia (Genesis 24:10). That was his town where he sent his eldest servant to go and get wife for Isaac (Genesis 24:1-4). He lived in Canaan (Gen. 24:3). Sarah lived in Canaan (Gen. 23:2). This shows Abraham was living with his legitimate wife in Israel.

Therefore it is not true that the black stone was sent to Abraham in Arabia. He was not there. The black stone was a 'marker' of the Arabian 'god' - Abdulai's and Muhammad's Allah.

Abraham was a Jew. The Jews are his descendants (seeds) practising his religion (John 8:31-33, John 8:37).

Brother,point of correction.Abraham(pbuh) has only two sons and two wives,not many wives(Galatians 4;22,Genesis 2;1)In the Old Testament,God singled
out the descendants of Ishmael (the Arabs) for a particular blessing:
“And, as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him;I will
make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be
the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great
nation” [Genesis 17: 20].If hagar and ismael(pbuh)aren't abraham(pbuh)'s legitimate family,why would God promise to bless ismael(pbuh) and make his nation(arabs)great? Do you even realised the first fruit of abraham(pbuh)was ismael(pbuh),he can never abandon his first fruit The book of
Genesis tells us that Abraham left his wife (Hagar) and Ishmael to
settle in ‘Paran’ (Genesis 21:21),which according to historians is in
Arabia.God promised to make ismael(pbuh) too a great nation,so for this promise to come to pass,abraham(pbuh) accompany hagar and ismael(pbuh) to the arabian peninsula,he never chased them away.When abraham(pbuh) wanted to lay the foundations of the kabba,he came to arabia to visit ismael(pbuh) and informed him about his mission,the revelation from God instructing him to build the first place of worship....Peace

truthman2012: @ ayenny02

Hagar was not Abraham's wife, she was a maid. Other women (including Hagar) who bore children for Abraham were not wives but concubines (Genesis 25:5-6). Concubine means man living with a woman not lawfully married to. Abraham sent all other children away except Isaac, the son from his legitimate wife.So Hagar was not Abraham's legitimate wife.

Abraham was from Mesopotamia (Genesis 24:10). That was his town where he sent his eldest servant to go and get wife for Isaac (Genesis 24:1-4). He lived in Canaan (Gen. 24:3). Sarah lived in Canaan (Gen. 23:2). This shows Abraham was living with his legitimate wife in Israel.

Therefore it is not true that the black stone was sent to Abraham in Arabia. He was not there. The black stone was a 'marker' of the Arabian 'god' - Abdulai's and Muhammad's Allah.

Abraham was a Jew. The Jews are his descendants (seeds) practising his religion (John 8:31-33, John 8:37).

Brother,point of correction.Abraham(pbuh) has only two sons and two wives,not many wives(Galatians 4;22,Genesis 2;1)In the Old Testament,God singled
out the descendants of Ishmael (the Arabs) for a particular blessing:
“And, as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him;I will
make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be
the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great
nation” [Genesis 17: 20].If hagar and ismael(pbuh)aren't abraham(pbuh)'s legitimate family,why would God promise to bless ismael(pbuh) and make his nation(arabs)great? Do you even realised the first fruit of abraham(pbuh)was ismael(pbuh),he can never abandon his first fruit The book of
Genesis tells us that Abraham left his wife (Hagar) and Ishmael to
settle in ‘Paran’ (Genesis 21:21),which according to historians is in
Arabia.God promised to make ismael(pbuh) too a great nation,so for this promise to come to pass,abraham(pbuh) accompany hagar and ismael(pbuh) to the arabian peninsula,he never chased them away.When abraham(pbuh) wanted to lay the foundations of the kabba,he came to arabia to visit ismael(pbuh) and informed him about his mission,the revelation from God instructing him to build the first place of worship....Peace