₦airaland Forum

alexis: That's what you all say when the Quran is put under a micro-scope. I have been called a liar, stupi.d., void of truth because I said the Allah of the Quran and God in the Bible are different.

For you guys to debate and present FACTS & EVIDENCE, you result to personal attacks. Whenever "certain" "touchy" Islmic subject is brought up and you folks can't debate rationally - you start attacking the person.

None of you have provided an AUTHORITATIVE answer to DeSika post. For example: It is in the Quran that:

1. Moses was the first Muslim
2. Muhammed was the first Muslim
3. Adam was the first Muslim

How can one source give 3 DIFFERENT accounts. How can God ALMIGHTY give 3 different accounts on who was the first muslim?

Thank you brother for your comment.You don't even give the quotations the word used in the quran was 'Mumineen' meaning 'a believer'.And if we analyse every prophet is the first believer to the people they were sent to,why? Because they will be the first person to believe in the oneness of ALLAH before spreading the message to the people,so none can call himself a believer before his prophet because the prophet will be the first to believe,ALLAH communicate with prophets on a higher level than other humans.So the quran saying moses(pbuh) was the first believer or adam(pbuh) was the first believer or muhammed(pbuh) was the first believer is not wrong at all,if you don't understand the quran,that doesn't mean the quran is wrong,hope that answers your question.To your second approach,you said ALLAH in the quran isn't the same with God in the bible,i may agree with you on this for the sake of argument because some ill-befitting attributes were given to God in the bible,I will give you a few examples.
(1)Imagine,God being wrestled and beaten by a man?!(genesis 32;24-30).
(2)A hissing God?!(Isaiah 5;26,7;.
(3)A roaring God?!(Isaiah 42;13,jeremiah 25;30)
(4)A barber God?!(Isaiah 7;20)
(5)God murdered 50,070 people for looking into a box?!(samuel 6;19)
I can go on and on to produce absurdities about God in the bible,but the quran didn't give ill-befitting attributes to ALLAH.We have 99 beautiful names of ALLAH like An-Nur(the light),As-sabur(the patient one) and So on.Go study islam,don't study muslims or what media is propagating about islam..Peace brother.

alexis: Thanks for your concern mate - I don't need Allah to show me the straight path. I have seen the paths He is showing Boko Haram and Ansaru.

Brother,you can't judge Islam by his followers,doing so is like judging a book by its cover,you can't judge a car by its careless driver.I think you said it's not good to judge a religion by its followers,but you are now eating your words.You have no knowledge about Islam,you just visit some anti islamic site and come here to post.As I told,guidance comes only from ALLAH.....Peace

Please brothers,don't mind desika I know their type,they don't even read the quran just visit some anti-islamic sites and post rubbish here,and one problem of desika is that he doesn't like admitting the truth and let me tell you something,no matter your hatred for Islam,ALLAH will perfect his deen because it's a promise.The fatest growing religion in the world is Islam.

Mamacita007: I have only one question becos I don't know anything abt islam even though some of my family members are moslems.

As pastors open churches can imams open their own mosque like that?

Brother,building of mosques is not for an imam,it's a collective work.I do wonder sometimes about christians,many pastors claiming God called them,lolz I have many in my areas,fake pastors they will just turn their sitting room into a church or erects some few plancks together,business has started.Churches are now used as a business enterprise.

deSika: you are welcome

facing anywhere is not significant as far as you know that whatsoever direction you face you have Gods attention. why would direction of prayers cause disunity. fact is GOD IS EVERYWHERE. and as such you can face ANYWHERE.
I was trying to point out to you that this Kabba u are facing was used to worship pagan gods.

now thats what am trying to point to you. you have evidence that idols were worshipped but you dont have evidence of Abraham building the mosque, its best an assumptionn. except you can prove it.
my dear, you are still circumambulating and that is a pagan act in itself as pagans did it.
evidence pls
. it has always been idolatrous from time immemorial..disbelief did not set in guy. as it is there is noevidence of people praying in a mosque, engaging the five pillars of islam before Mohammed.
lie. if Adam was a muslim where did he worship.. if Abraham built the first place of worship that means Adam was not a muslim as he didnt have a Kabba to worship. but you say he is a Muslim. Can you do yourself a favour and stop spinning yourself into lies. its not helping you..

Lastly,the black can neither harm the muslims nor benefit us,muslims just kissed because prophet muhammed(pbuh) kissed it, you do what you cant explain why its been done. what else defines blindly following than this. Kissing is a sign of affection.. you kiss what you admire or love... when Muhamed kissed the stone. he was showing affection,. admiration. worship for the stone. and guess wat the stone was an idol/god..

the call for prayer(adhan) was made on it,no idol worshipper will never stand on its idol,not possible.If the black stone is an idol then we muslims should be bowing to it(nauosubillah)but we never bow,bow only to ALLAH....Salam
does not remove the fact that the stone was an idol/god..

Brother as I said your reasoning isn't that high,just hate islam with passion no problem.Answers to your question it's mentioned in surah Al-baqarah 2;125-127 that abraham(pbuh) and Ismail(pbuh) built the kabba read it up yourself.Brother a muslim is someone that submits his will to ALLAH.You said adam(pbuh) never prayed in the kabba,he's not a muslim that's a lie.Being a muslim then doesn't mean one must prayer in the kabba the first quality of a muslim is tauhid(oneness of God) and all prophets of ALLAH believed in his oneness.To the prayer,the most important part of SOLAT(prayer) is the sujood(prostration)and most or all of the prophets made sujood jesus(pbuh) also made sujood,when he prayed to God at the gate of gethsame asking him to let the cup pass over him(matthew 26;39).Prophet muhammed(pbuh) is last and final messenger of ALLAH,the perfector of the religion of ALLAH,so ALLAH gave him and his followers the 5 daily prayers.As ALLAH said in the glorious quran surah Al-maidah 5;3-'today,i have perfected your religion for you,completed my favors upon you and have chosen islam for you as your religion'.All the prophets(peace be upon them all) do give charity,they all observe fasts(not necessary to be in the month of ramadan).To the circumambulating around the kabba in an unclad state ALLAH said in the glorious quran surah Al-araf 7;28-'and they committed a evil deed,going round the kabba in a naked state,great sins and unlawful sexual intercourse,they say;we found our fathers doing it and ALLAH has commanded it on is.Say;ALLAH never command such thing.Do you say of ALLAH why you know not?''.We face the kabba because our lord(ALLAH) commands us to do so,take it or leave it.How won't it makes a difference when I told you it's not possible for an idol worshipper to stand on his god,they stood on the black stone make the call for prayer(adhan)on it,you are adamant...That's the answers to your question brother.

alexis: Thanks mate. Again, anyone can believe in a stone, don't throw it at me. Have a good one and God Bless.

May Almighty ALLAH gives you guidance,we muslims can only show you the truth we can't guide you to the straight path,only ALLAH does.....Peace

vedaxcool: you are wasting ample time on him, even his own Christian brother calls him a liar! Instead of looking into his conscience he turns around and hurl invectives!

Thanks brother,I have also detected that from his replies..Salam alaikum my brother.

thorpido: You're showing ignorance here.You say Matthew never met Jesus?Don't you know he was one of the disciples and moved and walked with Jesus?
Are u just following what your imam taught u in error?
(pbuh) for Jesus?Why would Jesus Who is in the presence of God need peace to be upon Him?Why would anyone in the presence of God need peace to be upon him?
In God's presence is peace.U don't need to say peace be upon anybody in God's presence.
Anyway,it's what u were taught.....just religion.

Haha,I can feel how ignorant you are.In Islam,we respect all the prophets of ALLAH(peace be upon them all),we must know them and send blessings unto them,if you don't send blessings upon Jesus(pbuh),we muslims respect and honour him and that's why we can't do without writing PBUH at the end of the names of the prophets.No muslim is a muslim if he doesn't believe in Jesus(pbuh).

alexis: Lanre,

We have been over this again and again and again.

1. If we serve the same God - why does Allah curse Jews and Christians (How would God Almighty curse people He created)
2. The God in the Bible created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th
3. Allah said in one surah the world was created in 2, in another one he said 4 and in another one, he said 6. How can we serve the same God with two different accounts on how long it took for creation?
4. If we worship the same God why do muslims deny the deity of Jesus Christ and Christians accept it?
5. If we serve the same God, why don't all Christians go to Mecca every year
6. If we serve the same God, why didn't Jesus teach Christians to Marry 4 wives but Mohammed permitted it

I can go on and on and on

Brother,i promised I won't argue with you on the issue of serving the same God,all the points you raised are very easy for me to refute very easy,but it seems you love arguements and you don't like admitting the truth...Peace

alexis: Listen mate - listen very well. I HAVE NO PROBLEM OR ISSUES WITH MUSLIMS. Some of my best friends are muslims. My stand is this - you can believe in a STONE, don't through it at me. You can live and die as a muslim, just don't force me to be one when I go to Northern Nigeria. The core foundation of Islam and Christianity is radically different. We both don't serve the same God - that you should know.

If you say, we should all just get along and live in peace - I agree with you. I don't have anything against that

Hmmm,you said we don't serve the same God,brother I won't argue about that cos ALLAh has said in the surah I quoted that if you turn away,we should just tell you we are at least muslims...Peace,may we both guided and ALLAH surely judge our disputes on the day of judgement...Salam

Bidam: on the contrary..saints are called believers..don't get confused bro..

Brother,I am never confused,just teliing you the truth.

alexis: I think you are honest and I will applaud you for that. We judge a religion based on it's teachings and the prophet of that religion. I expect you to judge Christianity from the life and teachings of Jesus the same way I expect you to judge Buddhism from the life and teachings of Buddah. We judge Islam from the life and teachings of Mohammed and his actions.

My judgement of Islam is not based on what the media says but on the actions of Mohammed and the teachings in the Quran.

That's what I am saying brother,let's come to the similarities between both religions because ALLAH said in the glorious quran surah Al-imran 3;64-'say o people of the scriptures(Jews and christians)let's come to a word that is between us and you that we worship none but one true GOD and we associate no partners with him,and we erect not aming ourselves lords besides ALLLAH,if they turn away say bear witness that we are muslims(bowing our will to ALLAH).So brother,let at least come to the similarities between christianity and islam debating about differences won't create nothing but unending arguments.Let's just understand the concept of God in both religions....Peace

alexis: I think you are honest and I will applaud you for that. We judge a religion based on it's teachings and the prophet of that religion. I expect you to judge Christianity from the life and teachings of Jesus the same way I expect you to judge Buddhism from the life and teachings of Buddah. We judge Islam from the life and teachings of Mohammed and his actions.

My judgement of Islam is not based on what the media says but on the actions of Mohammed and the teachings in the Quran.

That's what I am saying brother,let's come to the similarities between both religions because ALLAH said in the glorious quran surah Al-imran 3;64-'say o people of the scriptures(Jews and christians)let's come to a word that is between us and you that we worship none but one true GOD and we associate no partners with him,and we erect not aming ourselves lords besides ALLLAH,if they turn away say bear witness that we are muslims(bowing our will to ALLAH).So brother,let at least come to the similarities between christianity and islam debating about differences won't create nothing but unending arguments.Let's just understand the concept of God in both religions....Peace

thorpido: Jesus is not contradicting himself.He said,'ye do err,not knowing the scriptures,nor the power of God'(Matthew 20:29).He let's us know a lack of knowledge leads to error.You cannot just pick a verse and conclude on it,you have to do a comprehensive study.You need sometimes to see the beginning and follow it to the end.Jesus started somewhere but He was going somewhere.He had to start with the Jews and spread from there.Why did He say,'and OTHER sheep I have which are not of this foldJohn 10:16)?
If u do a study of the bible,u'll see that even his disciples were confused sometimes and He had to teach and explain to them.There was even a time he blew on them to receive understanding.Do more studying.

Brother,never in my post did I say Jesus(pbuh) is contradictory,I said matthew Jesus(pbuh) wasn't the the author of matthew.Imagine,the bible told us Jesus went about preaching the gospel and there's not even a single gospel according to st. Jesus all the gospels are according to st. Matthew,st. Luke,st. John and st. Mark.None of these people ever meet Jesus(pbuh).

Bidam: then why all this argument..just as mohammed was sent to the arabs..Jesus to the Jews..Paul was mandated to preach the gospel of Christ to the gentiles.. every man to a specific region with a specific assignment end of story..

Brother,prophet muhammed(pbuh) wasn't sent for the arabs but he was sent to the whole of mankind,ALLAH said in the glorious quran,in surah Saba 34;28-'and we have not sent you(o muhammed) except as a giver of glad tidings and a warner to all mankind,but most of men know not'.Also in Surah Al-anbiyaa 21;107-'and we sent you(o muhammed) not but as a mercy for the alamin(mankind,jinns and all that exists).

Chukskalidon: which peace...where is d peace? For ur papa house or maclantunji backyard? Where ever Islam is, there is no peace. D moment u realised and admit that th better for you.

Brother,Islam is derived from the root arabic word 'salam' which means peace,and also the arabic 'salem' which means to submit one's will to ALLAH.In conclusion Islam means peace acquired bu submitting one's will to ALLAH.If you want to learn about islam.go study islam,don't study muslims because muslims aren't perfect but islam is.Read the quran and may ALLAH gives you guidance.Don't follow what the media is propagating about islam,study islam yourself brother.....Peace.

Bidam: mumu how you wan take no wen what you do is cherry pick one or two verses to create an argument. Jesus is the messiah even your quran acknowledges it.

Brother,no foul language here we are just here to reason together,i think you are older enough to compose yourself.The word 'Messaih' is a hebrew word which was translated to 'christos' in greek,and the word 'christ' came from that word.Messaih simply means 'Annoited'.We muslims believed he was the messiah,he was annoited.

deSika: finally, another muslim. u are welcome bro

no. am onnly here to show the truth. you guys have to come out from all this ur anti islam accusations and discuss



if you notice i use the word idol, idolatrous, gods, pagan interchangeably. truth is that when pagans were worshipping other idols/gods Allah was one of them. that is a fact. what Mohammed did was to eliminate the other gods. leaving Allah.

i didnt say Kabba is idol. the Kabba was the exact building used for worshipping idols/gods.. if you destroy the idols you should also destroy the building were they were worshipped..

the blackstone is an idol.. read ayennyo2's post here
the blackstone is one of them.
and read this one


This people were talking to pagans. guess wat moslems are still doing this very pagan act. yes circumbulation is a pagan act




fact Kabbah was a place of idol worship. questionnn for you is God not everywhere why face only one direction. it seems to me that your Allah is only in Kabba.

the act of circumambulating was used by pagans my dear around the Kabba. so wats the difference between you annd the pagans. you are still doing what the pagans did. and as such i can say you are a pagan..

Thanks for your comment,to your first one you said we muslims do face the kabba when and that signifies that ALLAH is not everywhere and ALLAH is in the kabba,Let me correct that error of yours brother,we face the kabba in prayer because ALLAH instructed us to do so,if there is a group of muslims and they are about to pray,some will say let's face the east,some may say south,some may say west and some may even say north.So because of there's unity in islam and our lord(ALLAH) is one,so we all face the same direction.To the 2nd point you raised,the kabba was the place all the 300 idols were kept,i agreed with you when prophet muhammed(pbuh) came and became a prophet he destroyed all leaving none behind,how can ALLAH be an idol when my lord(ALLAH) is not an inanimate object? Subhanallah.Before islam conquered the city of makkah,the pagans of makkah used to go round the kabba in a naked state but islam conquered makkah,islam demolished it if we are practising a paganistic act,why are we not circumambulating the kabba in a naked state? And even the kabba was built by abraham(pbuh) a prophet,a muslim he prayed in the kabba as a muslim,but due to change in time disbelief set in into makkah,but when prophet muhammed(pbuh) came,the house of ALLAH became a place of worship for ALLAH alone,and disbelief was eradicated.That's why non muslims are not allowed to go near the kabba.Kabba is a the first place of worship on earth,not an object of worship.Lastly,the black can neither harm the muslims nor benefit us,muslims just kissed because prophet muhammed(pbuh) kissed it,the call for prayer(adhan) was made on it,no idol worshipper will never stand on its idol,not possible.If the black stone is an idol then we muslims should be bowing to it(nauosubillah)but we never bow,bow only to ALLAH....Salam

thorpido: Lanrexlan and FOLYKAZE,if u have problems with Apostle Paul,have u not read in the same Matthew what He said(Matthew 28:18-20)?

So why is matthew contraditing itself? Matthew said Jesus(pbuh) was sent only to the lost sheep of israel,so were his disciples(matthew 10;5-6) and the verse you quoted said Jesus(pbuh) commanded them to all nations baptizing them in the name of father,the son and the holy spirit? And the last verse of that chapter means Jesus is with them till the world ends,Which verse should we believe please? Contradictions.

alexis: 7:73 And to Thamud their brother Salih. He said: "O my people! worship Allah, you have no deity other than Him. Clear proof has already come to you from your Rabb. This is Allah's she-camel - for you a Sign; so leave her alone to pasture in the earth of Allah, and do not harm her with any harm, lest a painful punishment overtake you

There is nothing miraculous or divine about the she-camel, although she is mentioned as naqat Allâh (lit. Allâh's she-camel, 91:13). Prophet Sâlih placed particular stress on humane treatment towards the ownerless she-camel as an eye opener for a community that was cruel towards all those who were weak, even if it were an animal. The ownerless she-camel was made a sign for the Thamûd in the sense that the people were instructed to leave her alone to pasture in the earth of Allâh, and not to harm her in any way (11:64; 91:13). Thus, it was a test for the Thamûd whether they would act arrogantly or obey the divine command to restrain their cruelty.

You should pay more attention to your Quran

Brother,how can you say there's nothing miraculous about a she camel being pregnant coming out of a rock? Try to reason before posting,do you know what miracles means? Something that is above nature and attributed to supernatural cause.Is that natural? We know camel are being given birth to but this she camel which ALLAH used as a sign to the people of thamud was a miracle,a she camel being pregnant from a rock! Don't you reason at all? One thing I hate when having a dialogue with christians is that they will see the truth but will deny it,trying to bend the truth.Just read the quran with a concordant approach,not that conflict way of yours...Peace.

If you read your bible,it's mentioned in the gospel of matthew 15;24-'and he(Jesus) answered and said;I was not sent except to the house of the lost sheep of israel.'He was a messenger to the house of the lost sheep of israel,not the whole world.

@Desika,I can see the level of your reasoning is not that high,you are just an anti islamic guy,no problem.To your question,firstly what's the meaning of an idol? An idol as defined by the collins oxford dictionary said 'a material or an object,especially carved image that is worshipped as god'.You said prophet muhammed(pbuh) destroyed all the idols at kabba(agreed),but left the kabba,the black stone,ALLAH,the circumambulation.Firstly,is ALLAH an object? The answer is capital NO,ALLAH is a living being the absolute,the eternal,secondly circumambulation is an act of moving round a thing,how can that be an idol? Think before you talk.Thirdly the kabba is a house of worship built by abraham(pbuh) not an idol of worship.Lastly,the black stone is the place when abraham(pbuh) stood on when he first made the call of worship to the whole of mankind.One of the companion of the prophet reported that 'I saw MUHAMMAD(pbuh)kissing the black stone,that's why I also kissed it can never benefit me nor harm me.During the early years of islam,people do stand on the black stone and make the call for prayer(adhan),now tell who amongst the idol worshippers will ever stands on its idol and make the call? The answer is none.No muslim ever worship the kabba nor black stone.The kabba is the qiblah(prayer's direction) and the act of circumambulating around the kabba signifies that we muslims worship only one ALLAH.

@Desika,I can see the level of your reasoning is not that high,you are just an anti islamic guy,no problem.To your question,firstly what's the meaning of an idol? An idol as defined by the collins oxford dictionary said 'a material or an object,especially carved image that is worshipped as god'.You said prophet muhammed(pbuh) destroyed all the idols at kabba(agreed),but left the kabba,the black stone,ALLAH,the circumambulation.Firstly,is ALLAH an object? The answer is capital NO,ALLAH is a living being the absolute,the eternal,secondly circumambulation is an acy of moving round a thing,how can that be an idol? Think before you talk.Thirdly the kabba is a house of worship built by abraham(pbuh) not an idol of worship.Lastly,the black stone is the place when abraham(pbuh) stood on when he first made the call of worship to the whole of mankind.One of the companion of the prophet reported that 'I saw MUHAMMAD(pbuh)kissing the black stone,that's why I also kissed it can never benefit me nor harm me.During the early years of islam,people do stand on the black stone and make the call for prayer(adhan),now tell who amongst the idol worshippers will ever stands on its idol and make the call? The answer is none.No muslim ever worship the kabba nor black stone.The kabba is the qiblah(prayer's direction) and the act of circumambulating around the kabba signifies that we muslims worship only one ALLAH.

It's mentioned in the glorious quran surah Al-araf 7;73,also surah Al isra 17;59,surah As-shuara 26;155-158 those are verses that said ALLAH gave clear sign to the people of thamud by letting prophet shuaib call out a she camel from a rock.

@alexis,who told you that only jewish prophets performed miracles? Let me give a brief of miracles by other prophet who aren't jews.Prophet shuaib(pbuh) performed a miracle through ALLAH's command,when his people asked him to show a sign from ALLAH,a she-camel that was pregnant came out from a rock!wasn't that a great miracle? Prophet yunus(pbuh) was swallowed by a fish,he stayed inside the belly of the fish for three days and three nights and he lived,wasn't that a mighty one? When you expect to be dead and he's alive that's a miracle.To the last,the last and final prophet of ALLAH,muhammed(pbuh) performed miracles,when the pagans of makkah asked him to show them a sign,he splitted the moon into through ALLAH's leave,wasn't that a miracle? Are they jews? Finally,the last and final revelation of ALLAH-the glorious Quran is a miracle itslef,a miracle of all time.To your 2nd point that because Jesus(pbuh) name was mentioned 25 times in the Quran and Muhammad was mentioned only 5times claims that ALLAH loves jesus(pbuh) more than MUHAMMAD(pbuh).Let me tell you something brother,mentioning a prophet more than others don't denote superiorty,take for example moses(pbuh) was mentioned more than 25 times in the quran,the same applies to pharaoh,now tell me ALLAH loves pharaoh,more than jesus(pbuh) because pharaoh has a higher number by which his name was mentioned.Just get the point,in islam we made no differentiation among the prophets of ALLAh,they were all sent to guide mankind to the straight path.

alexis: Imagine the same Jesus you claimed call others "dog" is the same Jesus "Allah" gave power of creation. I wonder why he didn't give Mohammed that power. Allah seemed to like the Jewish prophets because they were the only ones that performed miracles but for some reason Allah didn't want Mohammed to have miraculous powers. Allah must really like this Jesus . Allah likes him so much he mentions Jesus more times in the Quran than your prophet Mohammed.

Vexacool for some reason doesn't see that. To justify the hate Allah has for Jews and Christians, he wants to drag Jesus into the same boat. As if that is not enough - He has started personal attacks - Alexis is a career liar, and insulting Jesus in the process. However, when we talk about How Mohammed killed innocent people and his sexual lust - He is the 1st one to shout - we are insulting Islam.

The fact that the deity of Jesus bothers you so much is my fun side kick for the weekend . More funny is the fact that your Allah endorses Jesus. If you don't like it - GO JUMP OFF A BRIDGE. Write a book about it, start an Islamic school - However, it wouldn't change what your god said about Jesus - JESUS IS THE ONLY ONE THAT HAS THE POWER OF CREATION IN YOUR QURAN.

Brother,you are getting it wrong,jesus(pbuh)has no power of creation,only ALLAH has the power to create whatever he likes.All what jesus(pbuh) did was through ALLAH's permission,jesus(pbuh) himself said in the bible gospel of john 5;30-I can of myself do nothing,as I hear I judge and my judgement is righteous,because I seek not my own will but the will of my father who sent'.When he told you he of himself do nothing and you said he has the power of creation,you are just getting it wrong this is logical and very straightforward.All the miracles that jesus(pbuh) performed were to show the oneness of ALLAH,he is only a messenger and prophet.

If you don't know about Islam,don't talk about it.The so-called boko harams are going against the commandment of ALLAH,it's written in the glorious Quran Surah Al-Maidah 5;32-'if anyone kills an innocent human being,it will be as if he has killed the whole of humanity and if anyone saves a single human being,it will be as if he has save the whole of humanity'.Boko harams are killing innocent souls and claiming they are fighting for islam,islam strictly prohibits the killing of innocent ones.I'm sure this so-called boko harams want to tarnish the image of islam and insha allahu,the truth will be come out soon.If you want to know about islam,go study islam don't study muslims because muslims aren't perfect but islam is,Islam is peace.