MightySparrow:



Grace is an avenue provided by God for man to reach Him after the Fall. God located Abel, Seth( in his time men been to call on God), then Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Israel, then the whole world through Jesus.


What is grace? Unmerited favour. That is the popular definition. Yes through. God took man as they are initially, then made.a covenant with Noah, then Abraham and Israeli. These are also Grace because God designed them to reach Him.
What is the purpose of grace?
1. Reconciliation
2. Restoration
3. Riches
4. Revelation
5. Restitution
5. Resurrection

....And more as many things as lost in the Fall to bring man back to the original plan.


The Law though a form of grace, is to make man know the gravity of sin committed.


The grace of Jesus is like a cushion effect because the Law itself failed to bring man to perfection.
If you are given to science, I would liken it to a resistor called`shunt` this resistor took about 99.9% of effect of current on the instrument.


Don't mind me Someone else can explain to you better but the summary is in Galatians 2:20

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

I was with Him on the cross spirituality to meet the needs of Justice. He bore the pain, but I the gains.


So, Grace of the Lord Jesus could be given as an scronym:

1. God` s Reconciliation at Christ`s Expense
2. God`s Restitution at Christ`s Expense
You could insert the test as re ∼ is to bring back.etc.


I am so sorry, I am a bit lazy typing I would have loved to insert many scriptures.

Somebody, please contribute to shed more light for this brother and me Al's to learn.
Thanks

Lol I understand but I can't really talk more here...these people are not willing to hear anything about grace. I just had to put mouth cos he mentioned grace...well, except you create a thread for it and mention me.

Kobojunkiee:
Pay attention....
You are told that Noah served God ALL OF HIS LIFE...He was Righteous all of his life! God was pleased with him ... there is a why. :-

Just answer. Was it before or after?

Kobojunkiee:
God's grace, in the Old Testament was obtained by those who lived according to the commands, statutes, and rules of God. Noah was no exception to this. He was a Righteous man all of his life because he followed God.

Dtruthspeaker:


God is Good, thus Grace given to All Offenders BUT ONLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF PREVENTING THEM FROM COMMITTING FURTHER OFFENCES, AND NO MORE.

One question to you two. The verse where Noah found grace, was it before he was referred to as righteous or after?

habsydiamond:
Op the bread u put here is not the right one.... Are u saying na agege bread dem use... Even ur fish na shawa... You got both wrong mehn

Kingdomtruth:


Thank God for GRACE my sister.It's all about GRACE

I know right!

DannyG8:
I have try pray fast and am still commiting the sin

Nah I didn't say pray and fast. Study those scriptures... believing right will result in living right. Jesus already took your punishment at the cross. Does it mean you should keep on doing as u like? Nope! You are the righteousness of God in Christ. Whenever that urge comes. Say this out loud "I am the righteousness of God in Christ". When people are sick, they say "by His stripes I am healed", isn't that faith? (Calling those things that are not as though they are). But when you sin, why not also call those things that are not as though they are?

Right in the middle of your sinning, confess your righteousness in Christ. Call those things that are not as though they are. It's only by faith can you please God! The enemy might whisper in your ear that you're a hypocrite...that while sinning you're saying you're righteous. If you don't confess it, you'll still sin...so why not confess it. What are you gonna lose if you confess it?

I've heard of many testimonies of people who overcame temptations and addictions and other sins just by confessing they're the righteousness of God in Christ. My dear, you don't need to stress yourself or bind and lose or do deliverance or even fast. Just confess who you are in Christ. Call those things that are not as though they are (faith) and watch your breakthrough happen. I'm also a living testimony to God be the glory.

Kingdomtruth:
OP, carefully go through this, it'll help you.


So, I'm back again to talk about what Jesus Christ did for our salvation I.e the price He paid and how He paid it, for our deliverance and salvation today. I realised that: most of us as Christians are ignorant of the truth regarding our salvation. The truth is that: without the knowledge of what was done and how it was done for us to be freed from the operation and tyranny of sin(FLESH) in our lives, we won't be able to appreciate to a reasonable degree; the sacrifice as it were and see the depth of the PRICE exactly for what it is.
I know for sure however, that: only when we know the truth; shall we be saved by it. See John 8:32. But, how can we be saved by the truth; when we don't even know it.
Because I've come to understand that: a lot of us are Christians only on paper but not in practise. We seem to think that: to be a Christian is just a title rather than a lifestyle. But, I put it to us that: it is by far more than that, instead, it is a deliberate work with the Lord aimed at becoming conformed to the image and likeness of Christ Jesus. See Romans 8:29.
THE REASON FOR HIS COMING.
God had no reason for sending Christ Jesus into the world, but for you and me. It was obvious prior to His coming that we were all set for doom. All of us. But, God in His LOVE and MERCY, prepared a body for Him in the form of HUMAN and sent Him for just only one purpose. And that one purpose, was for Him to DIE in order to set us free from the power of sin(FLESH) and to give us victory over DEATH See 1 Corinthians 15:56. You can do well to revert to my previous thread on my profile and read about the FLESH.
WHAT WAS OFFERED FOR OUR SALVATION AND DELIVERANCE.
God knew that: no human activity(ies) would suffice to be able to set us free from sin(FLESH). He knew that: Just as a married woman is bound to the LAW of marriage to be with her husband together forever until death separate them; in the same way, we were all bound to sin(FLESH) forever and ever, to live in sin and its tyranny until we all DIE. But, thank God, who gave us this VICTORY through the sacrife of the BODY of Christ Jesus, by which we are saved. See the same 1 Corinthians 15:56. YES, you saw it well. It was by the offering of the PHYSICAL BODY of Christ Jesus that we are all freed and delivered today from sin.
HOW IT ALL HAPPENED.
Christ Jesus was without sin. But, for our sake, God made Him to become sin for us to share our sinful nature with us for the purpose of DEATH in order that we might become the righteousness of God by our union with Him. See 2Corinthians 5:21.
In dealing with sin(FLESH) however, Jesus Christ at the garden of 'GETHSEMANE', drank from the cup of suffering which was a symbol of our FLESH, after this, He declared that: Sorrow and anguish came over Him. Then, He prayed and declared that: not His will but the will of God be done. Note at this point,that: He had taken the FLESH(our sinful nature) in Him. And because of that, the holy spirit left Him, because the spirit and the flesh do not live together. where the SPIRIT is present, the FLESH disappears and vice versa. Just as light and darkness do not live together. Reason He declared that sorrow and anguish came over Him. Having taken this FLESH( our sinful nature) in His PHYSICAL BODY, with all its inherent suffering, beating, mockery and embarrassment; He endured all in order to take it to the cross and nail it there on the cross. He did this for two main reasons:
1) To destroy sin(FLESH) in our mortal bodies
2) To forgive all our individual sins with their various curses that were heaped on us because of disobedience.
All these, He achieved for our sake through the sacrifice of His body on the cross for us. Need I say that: Christ Jesus had no business dieing on the cross, if not for our sins so that through GRACE we might become the righteousness of God.
As He died on the CROSS, everything in Him died including the our FLESH(sinful nature) that He carried in Him to the CROSS. So that: as we believe in Him and accept Him into our lives, we automatically share in His death, so that we no longer have to die to our respective FLESH(ES), but that, through Him, we believe we have become death and freed to our sinful natures respectively just as He died and was freed from His. Because only death, will set us free from the FLESH. See Romans 7:6. But here, we see that: if we had died to our FLESH as individuals; it would've been destruction for ever and ever for us in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. See 1Corinthians 15:50. but, God in His mercy, achieved this through His son; so that while we were still sinners, He died the death that we ought to die, in order to set us free to be able to live for God and become His righteousness through our union with Christ.
Furthermore, it is instructive to know that: as important as His death was, our salvation was still not completed. Until the moment He died, was buried and resurrected. After His resurrection, He was then raised to GLORY and was given the power by God His Father to become the author of salvation. So that, only HE has the power to save all those that BELIEVE in Him.See John 3:16.
OUR HOPE AS CHRISTIANS.
Now as Christians, we have this one HOPE which is very fundamental and sure that: just as He died, was buried and raised to life, we too who BELIEVE in Him would be raised to life and live for ever and ever with Him at His second appearing. See1 Corinthians 15:22-23.
Finally, brothers and sister, this is our HOPE in Christ Jesus. Without Him, you can't live the way God wants you to live. For it is after you have confessed that :"He is LORD and you BELIEVE in your heart that He died and was raised by God" that, He would come into your LIFE by the power of the same spirit that resurrected Him from death and He would give you the power called GRACE to live in righteous the way God wants you to live. Else, there's no other way. The FLESH has to go. Else, trying to please God and experiencing His power in your Life would be as impossible as you telling a man to give birth to a baby. It is actually that impossible. The very reason why Christ told His disciples that: with man it is impossible, but nothing is impossible with God. Only in Christ Jesus can we be saved, and only in Him do we have the power( GRACE) to sustain our salvation. Because, we are FLESH but the LAW is SPIRIT.So, only by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT found in Christ Jesus can we be saved. Thanks and God bless us all...Shalom!

Yayyyy...Op your breakthrough is here

I'm sorry o, I just had to chook mouth ...but wasn't Noah's time before the law of Moses was given? (Noah was in Genesis and the law was given in Exodus)

And didn't Noah find grace before God called him righteous? (He found grace in Genesis 6:8 and God called him righteous in Genesis 7:1). Doesn't that mean when we receive His grace we'll be seen as righteous? And it was after he received God's grace that God directed Noah and told Him all he must do to save his life and family's life...oh and the animals too.

And twas after he found grace in verse 8 that the Bible said he was perfect and just among his generations.

So if the coming of Jesus will be like Noah's time, that means that those who received grace first like Noah and then became righteous in the sight of God (cos of the grace they received first), does it mean it's these set of people that'll make heaven? Pls explain.

The hall of faith in Hebrews 11, it was by faith Abel became righteous, and it was also by faith Noah became the heir of righteousness in verse 7. I really don't mind explanations for all these

DannyG8:
there is this particular sin that is bring me down to my knee always praying forgiveness everyday accept Jesus rededicate my life but I still find myself commiting that sin please I need your advice no insult

Hello, someone else faced this problem in the Bible. Your answer is found in Romans 7:15 to the end... and also some verses in Romans 8. Paul gave how you can overcome sin only through Jesus Christ.

Bornsinner7:
It's my father's house

Kriss216:
Is it now a crime or sin for people to sleep in their father's house

XXXXTENTACION:
Somebody cannot sleep in his father's house again

Mercisharelove:



Can I show you one or two stuffs

Sin and drawing back are two different stories......

Like SATAN is a sinner, as we were before redemption.

Drawing back to perdition is going to be destroyed with the children of wrath.


Now answering your questions, the scriptures said he that's joined to the LORD CHRIST is one SPIRIT.

You could be joined to the LORD and still perish in ignorance, why because of the rejection of revealed reality.

He - Apostle Paul reminded them, " don't you know that your body is the temple of God Almighty who lives in you, which body you are, for you are no longer yourself, your real life is hid in CHRIST - the LORD is the SPIRIT, when CHRIST who is our life shall appear then shall we appear with him in glory. Hallelujah



Most people preach that the Lord Holy Ghost leave the moment you sin.....
But always remember what I am sharing with you right now..

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

He is joined to the LORD CHRIST JESUS - the righteous - it's impossible to commit sin Because he is being kept by the Holy Ghost not to sin, he is led by the Holy Ghost, in Psalm 23....


Psalms 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Yea, though I walk, it's actually you that's leading your through the valley of the shadow of death. Whenever you you lead yourself, you end up in, sin valley hell

There's this prayer in Psalm 51:11

Psalms 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.


From the beginning of time, the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY have struggled with the flesh, or the body of man, I am talking about his SPIRIT working to see that men walk and work righteousness, their deeds are evil and they hated the true light that shines on everyone who come into this world.


Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.


6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.




There's another instance of where the LORD CHRIST JESUS said," I will spue you out of my mouth"

Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.


When you sin as Baby Christian two things happen
1 you are resisted - PRIDE OVERWHELMING YOU. THE LORD CHRIST IS KIND AND HUMBLE, ANOTHER WICKED spirit is proud and rude takes over your heart.

2 you could be spue - cast out of his PRESENCE, HIS SPIRIT, fall from blessing and favour of the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY in CHRIST JESUS by the HOLY GHOST. AMEN

Oh u mentioned me here too. My response is on the other thread

lightblazingnow:



Hope you enjoy the law man

Lol he can be annoying but sometimes entertaining

Mercisharelove:



Can I show you one or two stuffs

Sin and drawing back are two different stories......

Like SATAN is a sinner, as we were before redemption.

Drawing back to perdition is going to be destroyed with the children of wrath.


Now answering your questions, the scriptures said he that's joined to the LORD CHRIST is one SPIRIT.

You could be joined to the LORD and still perish in ignorance, why because of the rejection of revealed reality.

He - Apostle Paul reminded them, " don't you know that your body is the temple of God Almighty who lives in you, which body you are, for you are no longer yourself, your real life is hid in CHRIST - the LORD is the SPIRIT, when CHRIST who is our life shall appear then shall we appear with him in glory. Hallelujah



Most people preach that the Lord Holy Ghost leave the moment you sin.....
But always remember what I am sharing with you right now..

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

He is joined to the LORD CHRIST JESUS - the righteous - it's impossible to commit sin Because he is being kept by the Holy Ghost not to sin, he is led by the Holy Ghost, in Psalm 23....


Psalms 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Yea, though I walk, it's actually you that's leading your through the valley of the shadow of death. Whenever you you lead yourself, you end up in, sin valley hell

There's this prayer in Psalm 51:11

Psalms 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.


From the beginning of time, the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY have struggled with the flesh, or the body of man, I am talking about his SPIRIT working to see that men walk and work righteousness, their deeds are evil and they hated the true light that shines on everyone who come into this world.


Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.


6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.




There's another instance of where the LORD CHRIST JESUS said," I will spue you out of my mouth"

Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.


When you sin as Baby Christian two things happen
1 you are resisted - PRIDE OVERWHELMING YOU. THE LORD CHRIST IS KIND AND HUMBLE, ANOTHER WICKED spirit is proud and rude takes over your heart.

2 you could be spue - cast out of his PRESENCE, HIS SPIRIT, fall from blessing and favour of the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY in CHRIST JESUS by the HOLY GHOST. AMEN

Hello...Okay I'm a bit confused with some verses you quoted in relation to the topic but psalm 23 caught my eye. Yeah, we may lead ourselves into that valley but the next verse says "but thou hath with me". God is still with us.

And Psalm 51 was when David committed adultery. David, unlike us did not have the perfect Lamb of God that takes away all sins. According to the law, when you sin, God will distance Himself from you and the curses of the law befalls that person. We're under the new covenant with the blood of Jesus. Even when the people of Corinth sinned by commiting adultery and all that. Paul was supposed to tell them "because you have done this great sin before God, the Holy Spirit cannot dwell in you, cleanse yourself first and receive Him all over again". Nope. He simply reminded them of who and whose they were. That their body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. It's still the temple of the Holy Spirit.

Genesis 6:3 says the Spirit of God won't put up with men for a very long time right? We in the new covenant, does that mean that there's a period of time God's Spirit will dwell in us and then depart forever since we have a mortal body? Well I think so. I believe when rapture takes place, the Spirit of God won't dwell on earth with those left behind (I dunno a Bible verse that supports this but I believe so). Not that the Spirit of God goes off and on. I mean, He said He'll never leave us nor forsake us, and my Dad doesn't lie.

Lastly, Revelation 6:3, if being righteous is hot and being a sinner is cold, what then is lukewarm? Cos He won't even spue those who are cold (in your case you mean sinners) out of His mouth but will spue lukewarm out. What then is lukewarm?

Hallelujah

Kobojunkiee:
I think you have let your imagination run completely away with you there. What rhelm of what Spirit?

That teaching there Jesus Christ gave to even the uneducated commoners who quite understood what He was saying.
What church?

Dtruthspeaker:


I know but A Perfect Love is Only Perfect when the Loved, loves Perfectly Also.

It is not in dispute that God Loved us Fully and Perfectly, but did we love Him back? No

Have we done unto what He has done unto Us?

Therefore, The Love is One-Sided and Imbalanced Exactly as A Man who loveth a woman who does not love him back.

But the Love Circle is Complete and Perfect when The Be-Loved, Truly and Fully Loves Back!

I got your point. I believe it's impossible to love God as much as He loves you though. He alone loves unconditionally. Even while being sinners, He loved us. John 3:16.

Dtruthspeaker:


Moses you already know spoke with God, same Abraham, let's not forget Abimelech, and all the others.

Remember it is The Law that
"The Lord Is Near to all who call upon Him, To all who call upon Him in truth. Psalm 145:

I'm talking about God's love here, what are u talking about? Quite confused

Thattallgirl:
The Love of God drives out fear cos it's perfect. So I don't understand what you're talking about

Abi

Dtruthspeaker:


Not True, Abraham attained it, Job attained it, Moses attained, David attained, the Disciples attained it!

Bible verses?

... perfect love drives out fear...1 John 4:18. And there's only One who loves perfectly!

Amazing awesome grace!

livingchrist:
Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Everyone need Jesus because all our suppose good works/ righteousness are filthy rag before God.

Jesus is the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world, if you do not have sin Jesus wouldn't have died for you.
Believe on Jesus as your Lord and saviour and recieve the gift of righteousness.

Cc Jesusjnr, kobojunkie, Nuttella

You're looking for trouble this night

perezeghi:



With respect to the bolded....Yes, we all can.
It seems hard but it can be done.

Christ told Peter...... you're not mindful of the things of God.

Matt.16.24 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me

Completely understanding the bold is one of the foundational steps of having the mindset of Christ Jesus.

I know it's hard that's why I said no one can. Or have you kept them since you were a Christian without breaking one?

lightblazingnow:




HE FIRST LOVED US MEANS HE SHARED HIMSELF WITH US - HIS FLESH AND BLOOD. UNTIL you drink his blood and eat his flesh you have no life in your heart, there is life in the blood, if the life in your blood isn't pure, there is no way you can love.

Jesus said something like that in John. He was talking about Holy Communion and that was confirmed when He gave His disciples bread and wine. You literally have to partake of His flesh and blood, and not pray to have His flesh and blood

You can pray to experience His love in your life, but it's only when you're filled with His love for you before you can love(either yourself or others). We love because He first loved us. 1 John 4:19

Kobojunkiee:
I am afraid that have it all tangled up there.

The doing of the works commanded you of God is not what is filthy here but instead your doing of these works while still living as a slave to sin...Sin renders all attempts at doing God's work filthy in the sight of God. :-

Basically, a sinner cannot produce anything pleasing to God. Remember God is holy and He demands that you also be Holy and acceptable before Him.

Same goes for unbelievers who don't believe in God but feel that the idea expressed in the book makes sense. I happen to have met atheists who do works depicted as righteous works in the Bible. I love them for it too but no matter how much they put their hearts it it, the fact is their sacrifice is unacceptable before God, and why? Because it is tainted by their unbelief.

In a similar fashion, the works/sacrifice of sinners are tainted(rendered filthy) by their refusal to accept(trust) and obey the teachings/commandments of Jesus Christ , which is disobedience .I.e. sin.

So, in Matthew 7 vs 22 and 23, Jesus Chriat speaks of those who believe in Him -they do their works in His name - but they are sinners and so none of their works matter since they do not belong to Him. So why are they sinners if they believe in Jesus Christ, you might ask. It turns out that it is not enough to believe in Jesus Christ, one also expected to accept(trust) and obey His teachings/commandments(Truth), which according to Jesus Christ is the only way to become one of His followers/disciples.

To become dead to sin one has to accept (trust) and obey the teachings/commandments of Jesus Christ(John 8 ) and all those who are dead to sin and alive in Christ continue even then to accept(trust) and obey the teachings/commandments of Jesus Christ - it is the default for all those who are abide in Jesus Christ.

All your efforts/works at accepting(trusting) and obeying the commandments/teachings of Jesus christ are works done to glorify God, not men. This is so because you those works to honor God since it is through our obedience that we honor Him, just like Jesus Christ did when He obeyed the Will of God and commanded that we do as He did.

Rather, works done rejecting the teachings/commandments of Jesus Christ, following instead the doctrines and traditions(commandments) of men(even our own ideas) are works done in honor of men since they do not honor God in anyway, nor is He glorified by what amounts to sin against God.

God is Holy and He expects holiness from us like you said. God doesn't break one rule from His laws and say "oh I'm sorry, I won't do that again" and continue. It's exactly how He is He expects us to be. Which means nobody in this world can perfectly keep the laws without making mistakes. If u think when you sin you can easily change and be right again, doesn't that show you're sacrificing Jesus all over again? Cos when you break a law in the past, you'll need to sacrifice an animal to be righteous again. So I'm asking you Kobojunkie cos God is Holy and perfect and He wants us to be too, when you break a law and sin, who becomes your sacrifice again?

Kobojunkiee:
The statement in Isaiah 64 vs starts by pointing out something important to understanding the meaning in what Isaiah said there, even in that one verse..."We are all as an unclean thing...." . Right there, Isaiah points out in that very same verse the reason for the filth, which is sin(disobedience) - it taints everything including what you consider your righteousness.

Isaiah not only indicates in that same verse the issue(filthy works) but also the reason for filthy state of our works - sin(disobedience). And for those of the New Covenant, Jesus Christ, are provided the very solution to Sin(disobedience) , the solution being that we continue to accept(trust) and obey the teachings\laws of Jesus Christ , for only through doing so can we claim victory over sin and have works untainted in the sight of God.

Let's be scripturally accurate please. Works is works. Sin is sin. Filthy rags is filthy rags and in that verse, our righteousness is filthy rags. It's exactly how it is written.

Kobojunkiee:
I am afraid that have it all tangled up there.

The doing of the works commanded you of God is not what is filthy here but instead your doing of these works while still living as a slave to sin...Sin renders all attempts at doing God's work filthy in the sight of God. :-

Basically, a sinner cannot produce anything pleasing to God. Remember God is holy and He demands that you also be Holy and acceptable before Him.

Same goes for unbelievers who don't believe in God but feel that the idea expressed in the book makes sense. I happen to have met atheists who do works depicted as righteous works in the Bible. I love them for it too but no matter how much they put their hearts it it, the fact is their sacrifice is unacceptable before God, and why? Because it is tainted by their unbelief.

In a similar fashion, the works/sacrifice of sinners are tainted(rendered filthy) by their refusal to accept(trust) and obey the teachings/commandments of Jesus Christ , which is disobedience .I.e. sin.

So, in Matthew 7 vs 22 and 23, Jesus Chriat speaks of those who believe in Him -they do their works in His name - but they are sinners and so none of their works matter since they do not belong to Him. So why are they sinners if they believe in Jesus Christ, you might ask. It turns out that it is not enough to believe in Jesus Christ, one also expected to accept(trust) and obey His teachings/commandments(Truth), which according to Jesus Christ is the only way to become one of His followers/disciples.

To become dead to sin one has to accept (trust) and obey the teachings/commandments of Jesus Christ(John 8 ) and all those who are dead to sin and alive in Christ continue even then to accept(trust) and obey the teachings/commandments of Jesus Christ - it is the default for all those who are abide in Jesus Christ.

All your efforts/works at accepting(trusting) and obeying the commandments/teachings of Jesus christ are works done to glorify God, not men. This is so because you those works to honor God since it is through our obedience that we honor Him, just like Jesus Christ did when He obeyed the Will of God and commanded that we do as He did.

Rather, works done rejecting the teachings/commandments of Jesus Christ, following instead the doctrines and traditions(commandments) of men(even our own ideas) are works done in honor of men since they do not honor God in anyway, nor is He glorified by what amounts to sin against God.

How can someone who doesn't believe in Jesus and who doesn't obey the Commandments like u claim, be filled with the power of God to heal people? Isn't Jesus talking about those who are Believers but who don't have a relationship with Him? Cos He clearly says "I never knew you". How do you then "know" someone if you're not always with that person and acknowledging His presence and talking to Him about everything?

Kobojunkiee:
But recall that Job's righteousnesss was not based on the views of these 3 men but God's judgement and nowhere are we told in all 42 chapters that God changed His mind about Job's righteousness.

God declared Job righteous and this for his obedience of God's very commandments since Job did the works commanded him of God(Job 31). Job, quite reasonably too, wanted to understand the reason for his sufferings because he was sure he was following God's commandments in these things and he felt he had a case to make, if only, before God.

His friends however came with their own standards to judge Job and his declarations, not on God's word , but their perception of the man Job, something which God eventually comdemned them for doing.

Job in His attempt to make his case before God commited no sin against God even in His anger -Sin is not arbitrary- it is defined by God's comandments/rules. He simply listed the very things God commanded of him to do , all of which he did, explaining reason he wanted to understand why he was being "punished".

God's response to Job reveals to us that the accusation of self-righteousness holds no ground with God, the one who is judge of these things. And that God commanded an "apology" on behalf of Job from his friends, speaks volumes in this.

God does not penalize people for asking Him questions or wanting answers from Him in order to gain better understanding of things and of situations. He is not a cruel God that He would remove His blessings simply because we question what He is doing to us in order that we may gain better understanding to maybe do better.

Why then did God's tone change from praising Job in the beginning to what it was before chapter 42?

oluplus:
.

Thank you. Successfully downloaded it.

Thattallgirl:
Ohh Thank you

You're welcome

oluplus:


Thank you but Joseph Prince books were not listed on the site.

I have search with the the Autor's name and the book's name, all to no avail

I just clicked on the link too and scrolled down and found these below though

Kobojunkiee:
Actually , you are wrong in your claim that Job became self-righteous. No, He did not! Righteousness doesn't have an on and off switch where if you say something of what you have done in obedience to God's command, you become unrighteous or self-righteous.

What job listed in Job 31 were instead the same works of righteousness which God commanded His people who are holy to do in His name. You will find the same list given by God in numerous other places in your bible..

* In Ezekial 18 and then Ezekiel 33, God provides again the list of works that the righteous do where He declares that those who do those works will not die but those who don't willl.

* In Matthew 25 vs 31-46, Jesus Christ gives a similar list to His followers explaining that only those who do works of righteousness will in fact enter into Heaven.

* in Isaiah 58, God declares that He is against the kind of fasting that you do when you starve your bodies of food, proposing instead that the kind of fasting He wants is the kind that involves the doing of works of righteousness


So, no, Job did not practice self-righteousness since righteousness is about the doing of works specified by God. He was declared Righteous because of the works he, Job, did in obedience to God's own commandments. He, Job, attempted instead to make His case before God by listing that he had indeed obeyed all of the commandments set before him by God, something God Himself never denied.

So "So these three men stopped answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. in Job chapter 32 was not self-righteousness, then what? And we're talking about Job please. Don't deviate.

At the beginning of the book, God said Job was righteous. He was always doing the right things, even before his children sins, he'd always sacrifice an animal cos he knew they would most likely sin. He avoided evil and all that. But God allowed Job to go though all that. Why? Cos God was going to show how self-righteousness makes men exalt themselves above God.

When those evil things befell Job, and his three friends came to console him, one accused him of not being innocent, the other was talking about the traditions of the past, and the other was arguing based on legality (that if he had done this or if he had not done that, all these wouldn't be happening to him). But do you know what Job said from chapter 29? He started challenging their accusations and became so self-righteous. He talked about all that he did and all of his achievements. When you depend or believe you have your own part to play to keep the commandments, if anything bad happens, you begin to say things like "I don't deserve this. I have been upright all my life. I did this and did that. I performed signs and wonders and touched people and they got healed. This shouldn't happen to me, why is God allowing this happen to me".

And if you say Job wasn't self-righteous, let's look at Elihu's argument in chapter 32. So these three men stopped answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. Read Elihu's argument cos he got angry that Job was justifying himself instead of God. See what self-righteousness causes?

Then God spoke in chapter 38. Shouldn't God justify Job in all his self-righteousness? But read God's responses. He was asking him questions, several questions since Job thought he did everything or he knows everything. God even told Job that he's no match to the Leviathan.

And in all of God's responses, whenever Job replied Him, he never talked about himself. He talked more about God. He humbled himself and that's when Job's turnaround came. So many people depend on their own righteousness, and become an easy target to the enemy just like Job. Not that those who depend on God's righteousness (Jesus) won't face tough times. They will but they'll be humble cos they know nothing good can come from their efforts. That they've been depending on Jesus all along, and that they'll continue to do that cos He alone can and will deliver them. Notice why Psalm 23 is mainly about God working and leading us, and more of we resting and being led? Shalom!