₦airaland Forum

Nothingserious:
Conversely quite a few atheists had been converted to Christianity through the intellectual engagements on Christianity which the Christian does not even need.
Intellectual discussions on the Bible actually helps strengthen the belief of a believer and prepare him/her for engagements and evangelism. They do not strip Christianity of any value except for cutting down excesses from people who claim to be religious but deceiving others and benefiting from the deceits.

I would like you to state 1 well known atheist who was convinced by intellectual arguments. Well known so their history can be verified.

Oh sure intellectual arguments can strengthen a believer's faith, in fact I have had someone on NL tell me that I made them a better believer. The point is they strip away most of the gloss many people are unaware of. That stripping away doesn't need to lower whatever value you place on it but it does require you to face the question of why you believe more honestly.

Of course you know there are also non-Christian sources attesting to the historicity of Jesus Christ. Even if the Bible is the only source of accounts for Jesus’ historical data, would that discountenance the Bible claims if found true? No it won’t.

The issue isn't the historicity of Jesus but of the supernatural claims. I can grant you that Jesus was a real person but what you will have to demonstrate is the supernatural claims. How can you demonstrate that he is actual still alive without pointing back at the Bible for instance.

Nothingserious:
The Christian believer already has his/her faith anchored on God through Jesus Christ. Some were born into Christian homes and learnt with questions and doubts as they grew up.
Some heard the message and believed by faith.

However intellectual basis for beliefs and affirmation of the Bible claims is for skeptics mainly, even though a Christian whose faith is already anchored in God could learn the academic basis for their beliefs for evangelism and engagements.
Cheers

The Bible is the primary and only source for a foundation of belief in Jesus. On that point alone the Bible is unreliable on several key points nor can it be demonstrated to be true in several others. Learning academic facts will most likely strip away the veils Christian rhetoric usually drapes on its presentations of itself. Quite a few atheists were born that way.

WebmanProgrammer:
the bible is NEVER wrong

Au contraire the Bible has been shown to be wrong on several points.

Dtruthspeaker:
1) Their Rights.

2) I have not gone by the way of Aba in about 3 years and Aba has not yet entered my my scope of work or travel plans.

Ok I volunteer for you to take me there. When do you want to do so?

maynia:
The discovery was done based on science or faith

I’m sure Christians that refute scientific claims will also reject this

They won't because they think it validates their faith.

jmoore:
The fear of the unknown.


I once asked a Nigerian that claims to be an atheist to come and investigate a haunted house. He gave the flimsy excuse that he's busy with other things and can't waste his time on imaginary haunted house. All I saw was a 'freethinker' with no actions. You think that ghosts don't exist but you refused to put it to test.

I know, he's scared of ghosts but can't admit it.

There are many haunted houses all over the world. I know one in Nigeria, Aba to be precise. Anyone who has spent 3 decades in Aba and knows Ukwu mango very well should be familiar with a 3 story building opposite that junction. The house has been put up for sale and no one has bought it.

This is a perfect house to know that ghosts exist. No need for grammar to debunk ghosts. Come and stay in the house for just one month, you will live to tell the story and your fellow atheists will think you have finally gone mad.

BTW have you spent even 1 night in there to confirm that it is indeed haunted or are you merely repeating hearsay?

How can you ensure free access in and out of the building? You have a relationship with the owner or you have some means to guarantee legal access for any testing duration?

jmoore:
Change location how? By moving a three story building?
You are not in Aba so your perspective is ridiculous. The place is very well known. Faulks Road is a major road in Aba.

All I see are reasons to runaway from challenges.

Are you not the one now trying to create a criteria that it has to be someone residing in Aba? Or that we should dedicate 1 month? These are ridiculous criteria.

jmoore:
So no single atheist residing in Aba? Security is your concern. Which place is secured in Nigeria?

Then you should be able to tell me what kind of security you can arrange since you reside there.

Why does it have to be one month?

The one month is just suggestion to give enough time to gather evidence. And not assume it was just a coincidence. Scientists spend months in space but you can't dedicate just one month. If the ghosts show up on the first night, then it's left for you to stay longer or leave next day.

Nope I can't dedicate one month because it won't earn me any money to feed my family. I can spend max 2 nights, 3 if I can finagle it.

Sheunma:
This is a no no! Please never go investigating ghosts with cameras or modern gadgets, they don't like to be caught on tape.
This is why Muslims don't keep dog inside their homes. Dogs, especially black ones, keep angels away!

Back to the matter at hand.
Aba is predominantly christian town. If a house is so haunted by ghost that christians are afraid to buy and inhabit, I think it's fair to ask, what happened to the powerful name and blood of Jesus?

Maybe the Christians don't want to waste it on ghosts, they keep saying how precious it is. LMAO!

Sheunma:
This is a no no! Please never go investigating ghosts with cameras or modern gadgets, they don't like to be caught on tape.
This is why Muslims don't keep dog inside their homes. Dogs, especially black ones, keep angels away!

Back to the matter at hand.
Aba is predominantly christian town. If a house is so haunted by ghost that christians are afraid to buy and inhabit, I think it's fair to ask, what happened to the powerful name and blood of Jesus?

LMAO! That means we should bring a black dog along so that the ghosts are not scared away by angels. Bwahahahahaha!

Geedy:
[color=#770077][/color] The word of God is always and will always be true with or without any discoveries

So basically there is no way you can show that the Bible is wrong?

OtemAtum:
Good. First of all, jmoore's picture and phone number should be known to you and some others. Police should be involved too as well as journalists.

Solid suggestions, will put it as part of the arrangements.

OtemAtum:
Go with one or two people and cameras. That's all that's needed to demystify their mysteries. Also, be very careful because of ritualists. They know how to create stories that will lure people into their traps.

Of course, that is why I need to know what kind of security arrangement jmoore is willing to make.

Buliwyf:
Don't mind them. I am not even an atheist but I can bet my balls it's an urban legend. If you even agree to their challenge they will find a way to change the rules and put it in a remote location that you can't easily assess. You never see ghosts and JuJu in the city. It's always in one remote location where your security is not guaranteed.

LoLz. Depending on how things are setup to test this story I am interested. Let's see if we can come to an arrangement.

Dtruthspeaker:
hehehe when I remember ghosts and "atheists" I remember that haunted house in ABA and I would like to take them there.

You would like to so what is stopping you?

jmoore:
The fear of the unknown.


I once asked a Nigerian that claims to be an atheist to come and investigate a haunted house. He gave the flimsy excuse that he's busy with other things and can't waste his time on imaginary haunted house. All I saw was a 'freethinker' with no actions. You think that ghosts don't exist but you refused to put it to test.

I know, he's scared of ghosts but can't admit it.

There are many haunted houses all over the world. I know one in Nigeria, Aba to be precise. Anyone who has spent 3 decades in Aba and knows Ukwu mango very well should be familiar with a 3 story building opposite that junction. The house has been put up for sale and no one has bought it.

This is a perfect house to know that ghosts exist. No need for grammar to debunk ghosts. Come and stay in the house for just one month, you will live to tell the story and your fellow atheists will think you have finally gone mad.

Why does it have to be 1 month? So the ghosts won't show up in a single night?

BTW with the security situation in Abia being what it is how can you ensure the safety of anybody who takes your challenge?

Valar Morghulis. Rest in peace.

Valar Morghulis. Rest in peace.

Hismasterpiece:
Well look at it this way. The concept of God as described in scriptures. God is described as a king for instance. Now a king is.... you don't need me to start to define what a king is for you do i? You're more intelligent than that.

Anyways, for someone to be called a king he has to have a kingdom and make decisions about said kingdom (have you watched game of thrones or anyother movie or series with a monarchy?)

You can't be a king and be amoral. That's the point i'm trying to make.

God is also described as a father, husband, friend, protector, etc.. You can't be all those things and be amoral.

You can be anything and be amoral. Your title or position doesn't preclude you from being amoral, it's your actions that suggest if you are amoral. If a god exists it certainly doesn't care very much about human welfare for instance, if it did it would not standby and watch all the atrocities that have been going on throughout human history without doing anything. That is how an amoral being would behave. You would define yourself as a moral being, would you watch any of your loved ones get beaten, raped and killed before your very eyes when you have the power to stop their assailant? You won't standby and do nothing or am I wrong about you?

Hismasterpiece:
On what basis do you determine what is true and what is false?

Depending on the claim, the type of evidence available.

How do you determine what is true or false?

Hismasterpiece:
Can you give me another instance where you knew for certain that it had to be God?

Do you mean if i was certain then because I don't think any god answered my prayers now.

Hismasterpiece:
can you give me some examples of those answers to prayers you received please?

Years ago I was stranded at a car park and didn't have enough money to get to my next destination. I prayed to the god and approached a girl who I had travelled with to beg her to help me and she obliged. Back then I attributed it to answered prayer, now on the other hand I would see it as the kindness of a stranger taking pity on me not a god answering my prayer.

Hismasterpiece:
i'm just trying to say that we all got our knowledge from either what we experienced, were told, or what we read that's all... there's no other way to get knowledge

Yes but we must have a way of sifting through what is true and what is false or else we accept every story that comes our way.

Hismasterpiece:
Are you amoral? If you aren't amoral then how can you expect the person that created you like Him to be otherwise?

Why does the nture of who created what matter? Are humans made of metal how come the cars they make are metal? The nature of the maker has no bearing on what the created thing will be. Besides I don't believe a god created anything especially not me therefore whether or not I am amoral doesn't play into it.

What of all the others that didn't run mad? The ones that were right in the counting rooms pilfering dollars and other foreign currency? Na today.

Gloriouspraise:
I am having insomnia and getting brain zaps due to anti depressant given to me by a doctor , I sleep just 2 hours at night , and whenever I try to nap in the afternoon, it’s as if my brain is stopping me from that

I really don’t know what to do at this moment , as I am scared of going to the hospital

Which one were you given?

Image123:
This is a Greek Interlinear Bible, not exactly what i referred to. i referred to the early manuscripts in which the Bible was written. The language and Bible scholars that copied them, studied them and divided them saw the two verses on two different paragraphs, which indicates a separate line of thought. It's just an indication anyway, just like any chapter division.
The crown and real point is the understanding of the audience, both primary, secondary and tertiary audience to which the gospel is addressed. Like i showed, Peter and the other apostles were not confused or thinking Jesus must come again in their lifetime.

I think I grasp your point.

Valar Morghulis. Rest in peace.

Valar Morghulis. Rest in peace.