₦airaland Forum

johnydon22:
Nope rebellion is not a thing its an action. . . so who gave him the ability to rebel?

johnydon22:
You don't want to tell me what i want to know. .

How man that is created upright act against his upright nature and did something that is not upright?

DrLazDevitan:
''B'' should not descend from ''A'',the only exception should be there is something of A inside B.

It is your senses of genuity and mindliness that inculcate your knowings with corruption.Man is a psychological being and by intoto can never be stable.Where one diverisifies on equating humanness with moral ethicalities of corruption,then one is supposing that man had freewill has a gift and not a thing of his own measure.Inotherwords man was never perfect nor imperfect-man was/is humanness!

GooseBaba:
Again, if i chose to rebel against god.. Who created rebellion... Me or your god..? What was his purpose of creating rebellion...?

johnydon22:
Very good. . . perfect means excellent..
If something is perfect anything that thing does must be very excellent..

so humans were initially created perfect then they turned imperfect out of their own decision..

How did a perfect being make a decision that is imperfect therefore making them imperfect, it only shows it possess imperfection already therefore not perfect from the onset.

GooseBaba:
Typical, excuses upon excuses.. Who created free will..? Is it not the perfect god. Why then put the burden of imperfections on the alleged creation..?

All you bible story tellers have going for you is simply unfounded claims, accusations and excuses. No wonder different domination full ground... Smh

johnydon22:
How did something upright sin? from whence then did this sin come from....?

johnydon22:
Seriously do you have cognitive impairment?
Have i asserted anything to be perfect or imperfect . .

I asked, Can imperfection come out of perfection?

johnydon22:
If humans were created perfect from whence then came the corruption?

johnydon22:
You lack comprehension? . . . I asked a very simple question. .

Can something imperfect come out of something perfect?

johnydon22:
Seriously my question was

Is god perfect or not

johnydon22:
Am sure what i said was "How could a perfect being bore out imperfection" how did your brain turn that to mean that i said " he created the world perfect" Bros you really need to start going to comprehension classes..

If you want to argue against this premise, its very simple. . tell us if god is

perfect or not??

malvisguy212:
Jesus told some Jews, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye
will do.... He that is of God heareth
God's words: ye therefore hear them
not, because ye are not of God." (John 8:44, 47). And later still, He told them plainly, "Ye are not of MY SHEEP" (John 10:26).

In Matthew 25:32-33, Jesus said He
would separate the nations "as a
shepherd divideth his sheep from the
goats." Those who are of the sheep
inherited the Kingdom, but the goats
were not allowed into the kingdom.
With all of this information, will we
conclude that those who are "goats"
and "not of God" but who are "from
the Devil," have salvation, when
Christ so clearly excluded them? The
answer is, "NO." So will we then
conclude that Christ did not die for
the "goats", but only for "His sheep"?
The answer is, "NO."
You see, Christ died for both the goats
and the sheep. That is the gift he
offers to all men, to the world. He
offers everybody salvation. But not
everybody has salvation. Only those
who accept His gift will become "His
sheep," and only His sheep will have
salvation.if you chose to reject the free gift of God, is your choice.

malvisguy212:
Unconditional Election is also known
as "Calvinistic Predestination." The
scripture teaches predestination, but
not Calvinistic Predestination.
Scripture predestination is where God
pre-determined, not the identity of
the saved, but the character of the saved. We are not opposed to predestination, for the scripture teaches it. However, Calvin's view of predestination is entirely unbiblical and therefore a false doctrine. Calvinistic predestination means that the future is already determined (predestined). The implication is that it doesn't matter what you do, it has already happened. You have no free will.

By unconditional election, then, Calvinists mean:
1. Out of fallen humanity God chose certain people unto salvation. God elects people.
2. The number of God's elect is fixed.
3. God does not elect individuals based on foreseen merit of any kind, including faith. Election is an act of God's sovereign choice.
4. God's election and calling are invincible.
5. The purpose and motive of God's election are His glory, "To the praise of His glorious grace!"
IDENTITY OR CHARACTER?
1 Corinthians 2:7, "But we speak the WISDOM of God in a mystery,
even the hidden WISDOM, which
GOD ORDAINED BEFORE THE WORLD
UNTO OUR GLORY :"
Ephesians 1:3-4, "Blessed be the
God and Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ, who hath blessed us with
all spiritual blessings in heavenly
places in Christ: According as he
hath CHOSEN US in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD
,
that we should be holy and
without blame before him in
love:"
How does God decide who will be His
children? The scripture says,
"...through Jesus Christ;" "...through
His blood;" and, "...according to the
riches of His grace." The focus of being "predestined" is more on "through Jesus Christ" than it is on us as individuals. It was God's eternal plan that Christ would give His life so that He could have children. Christ coming and dying was predestined.
Therefore, our acceptance of that and
our ultimate salvation in Him is also
predestined (the culmination of God's
eternal plan).
JACOB HAVE I LOVE ESAU I HATE?
The writing of the apostle Paul in Romans 9:8-16 is one of the most avoided and unread passages of scripture. Those who believe in
Calvinistic Predestination say this
verse proves that God elects certain
individuals, because this verse says,
before they were born, God loved
Jacob but hated Esau. Theologians try to position themselves so as to avoid giving a strait answer. The evangelicals will not talk about it. The reformed church apologizes for it. And the majority of Christian's today have not heard about it. This passage, on its face,
does seem to speak of predestined
individuals, but in truth, it is not speaking of individuals, but NATION .
Let us first quote this passage, then
we'll use scripture to interpret this
passage.

Romans 9:8, "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the
promise are counted for the
seed."
Romans 9:9, "For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son."
Romans 9:10, "And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;"
Romans 9:11, "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God
according to ELECTION might
stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)"
Romans 9:12, "It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger."
Romans 9:13, "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."
Romans 9:14, "What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid."
Romans 9:15, "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."
Romans 9:16, "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."
Now, let's break this passage down
verse by verse:
VERSE 8: Not the children who descend from Abraham’s loins, nor those who were circumcised as he (Paul) was, are the people of God; but those who are made children by the good pleasure and promise of God, as Isaac was, are alone to be accounted for the seed with whom the covenant was established.
VERSE 9: "The word of promise" refers
to the promise recorded in Genesis
18,10, "...Sarah thy wife shall have a
son...". This is made clear by the fact
that verse 9 repeats some of this
promise recorded in Genesis 18:10.
This shows that it is the sovereign will
and act of God alone, which singles
out and constitutes the peculiar seed
that was to inherit the promise made
to Abraham.
VERSE 10: A Jew might object by saying, “Ishmael was rejected, not by the sovereign will of God, but because he was the son of the handmaid, or bond-woman, and therefore unworthy to be the peculiar seed;" but observe, this was not the only limitation of the seed of Abraham with regard to inheriting the promise. When Rebecca was with child by that one person of Abraham’s seed to whom the promise was made (Isaac), she went to inquire of the Lord:
Genesis 25:22-23, "...And she went to enquire of the LORD.
And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger."
That is, the posterity of the younger shall be a nation much more
prosperous and happy than the
posterity of the elder. This is speaking
about two different nations, two
manner of people, and not two
individuals (Jacob and Esau). Jacob
and Esau represent these two nations.
VERSE 11: As the word "children" is
not in the text, but added by bible
translators, the word "nations" would
be more proper; for it is of nations
that the apostle speaks, as Genesis
25:22-23 (from the above comment)
shows, and as the following verses
show, as well as the history to which
he refers.
VERSE 12-13: "The elder shall serve
the younger." These words, with those
of Malachi, "I loved Jacob, And I
hated Esau" (Malachi 1:2-3), are cited
to show that these words are used in
a national and not in a personal
sense. This is evident from this fact:
that, taken in the latter sense they
are not true, for Jacob never did
exercise any power over Esau, nor
was Esau ever subject to him. Jacob,
on the contrary, was rather subject to
Esau, and was sorely afraid of him;
and, first, by his messengers, and
afterwards personally, acknowledged
his brother to be his lord, and himself
to be his servant (see Genesis 32:4;
33:8, 13). However, in the former
sense, it is true, because the far
greatest part of Jacob’s posterity were
wicked, and rejected by God; and
Esau’s posterity were partakers of the
faith of their father Abraham.
From these premises the true sense
of the words immediately following,
"Jacob have I loved, and Esau have I
hated" (Malachi 1:2-3, Romans 9:13),
fully appears; that is, that what he
had already cited from Genesis
25:22-23 concerning the two nations,
styled by the names of their
respective heads, Jacob and Esau,
was but the same in substance with
what was spoken many years after by
the Prophet Malachi. The unthankful
Jews had, in Malachi’s time, either in
words or in their heart, expostulated
with God, and demanded of him
wherein he had loved them? "I have
loved you, saith the Lord: yet ye say,
Wherein hast thou loved
us?" (Malachi 1:2). To this the Lord
answers, "Was not Esau Jacob’s
brother? Yet I loved Jacob and hated
Esau, and laid his mountains and his
heritage waste for the dragons of the
wilderness. Whereas Edom saith, We
are impoverished, but we will return
and build the desolate places; thus
saith the Lord of hosts, They shall
build, but I will throw down; and they
shall call them, The border of
wickedness, and, The people against
whom the Lord hath indignation for
ever. And your eyes shall see, and ye
shall say, The Lord will be magnified
from the border of Israel" (Malachi
1:2-5).
IN CONCLUSION;
The Bible does teach predestination,
but not the kind that Calvinists teach.
The Bible does not teach that God has
decided ahead of time who will be
saved and who will be lost. We are
free, moral agents with the capacity
to accept or reject God's
commandments.
Predestination or fore-ordination is
what God did before the world began,
as He determined to save man from
sin through the sacrifice of His own
Son. Those who answer His call
through the gospel experience the
blessings of that plan now in Christ
Jesus. (Romans 2:3,11)

johnydon22:
Thats the idea. . how could a perfect being bore out so much imperfection?

perfection never bores out imperfection?

Heaven wont be perfect too right?

krattoss:
what took u soo long..

Well as for atheists proven whether God exists or not,
now if u tell me that u carried first position in ur primary school days, and probably i doubted and tell u to give me prove, probably i expects u to show me ur result slips or report card or convince me beyond reasonable doubt, but probably when u backfires the question and tell me to proof that u didnt carry first position in ur elementary days,can i proof that,? It doesnt make sense..

Atheists are inquisitive beigns trying to get ur proofs of ur Gods existence and u re telling them to get proof of Gods non existence..
It doesnt make sense to me at all.

johnydon22:
First of all he is perfect and created an imperfect world, how could a perfect being or thing bring out imperfection. you only bring out what you have, only something that is imperfect that bore out imperfection. . What you are selling to us to buy as a perfect being is a totally an imperfect concept, we cannot buy that.

secondly i thought he was omniscient, he already know those that will choose to be with him and those that wont. .therefore he already fore knew he would have to punish trillions in an eternal flame.
Why did he need to start testing you, did you ask to be created? He wanted you to be with him forever, (u werent in existence) why bring you out to test you( a test he already knows if you will fail or not) since he has desire for you to be with him why not just create you that way... Why did he need to test people who would follow him when he is the creator who has the ability to just create the people with him already and need not play bet of souls with another of his creations.

How could a created entity(satan) spoil the plans of an all powerful entity who created it, then drag billions of others to a burning fire which the creator already knew would happen in the first place yet created them, literally just supplying more souls he had predestined for the eternal flames.

He has ability and is willing for you to be in a perfect world, then why are you not in a perfect world. . why did he need to run a test he already knows the result right from the beginning.. since he doesnt want to create u directly into the perfect world and knows that if he creates you into this one u will end up in hell, why create you at all... This sounds like a very retarded fellow to me. He is running the test that he already knows the result so he can enjoy watching billions burn, when they didnt ask to be created or tested. . . . . .a creator who already fore knew what his creator will do even before creating them shows the creator is responsible for destining these actions because the creation cannot do otherwise unless it will turn out the creator was wrong. . .
for something you reference so much, this your concept of god has a very low I.Q

Atheist don't have proof that the flying spaghetti monster don't exist too.
You have no proof God (zeus) dont exist yet you don't believe in him.

That which has not been proven cannot be disproven because there is nothing to disprove. . .

krattoss:
i will be the happiest man on earth if u answer these my questions convincinly.
1... If God is almighty,omniscient,omnipotent,alpha and omega,,why did he create imperfect being knowing they can come someday to denounce him?

2.... Some times i look at bad things happening to good people,moreso those who believes in him, why do he allow such when truly he claims to love them,,,what makes them deserve it?

3...why is that non belivers of him are the ones progressing? Take a look at countries where all kinds of things he preached against happens, like.. Western world where lesbians ,homosexuality, transgernder e t c, happens but they keep on elevating higher and higher while we religious africans keeps on depreciating..

Lastly, apart from mythology, stories,hearsay.....how can iknw that God exists?

johnydon22:
If a perfect god with the ability to create a perfect world exists and has desire for you to be in a perfect world, you would have been there already.

He wouldn't need to run a bizarre incredible cruel test- the result to which he by definition must have known already (omniscient)

MizJanet:
Shame on you ! NEXT TIME , dont just rush to say someone is not truthful if u gat no evidence .

Jaydee009:
I just heard this Muslim scholar (when making reference to the violent jihads that helped spread Islam) on radio saying : "When the faithful companions liberated the nation of Egypt..."

I ask someone to help me here.

(1). What exactly does he mean?

(2). Were the pre-Islamic Egyptians in bondage and in deed of liberation?

(3). How exactly do you liberate a society by killing off thousands of its citizens and then compel them to confess "Laila illa Allah"

I need honest, mature answers.

truthman2012:
Muslims are expected to probe into why Allah did not maintain his words in the quran. For so many verses of the quran there are the reverses, making the book very unreliable. Why would God not keep to his words? Why did he reverse his statement in order too suit particular situations? How would he say both man and jinns are incapable of producing a book like the quran with its inconsistencies? Why did he say there is no discrepancy in the book? All these questions should put muslims in the notice the need for proper probing of Allah’s book – quran

The reverses of the words of allah are in red:

There is no compulsion in Allah’s Religion

[Quran 2:256] Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust-worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

[Quran 8:39] And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.” (Quran 8:39)

(Sahih Muslim 1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay zakat."

(Bukhari 2:24)."Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah

The words of Allah is not subject to change

[Quran 6:115] Perfected is the Word of thy Lord in truth and justice. There is naught (nothing) that can change His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.

[Quran 2:106] Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things? Here allah changes his words by replacement after saying his words cannot change.

Abraham and Ishmael were in Mecca and built Kaaba

[Quran 2:127] And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House, (Abraham prayed): Our Lord! Accept from us (this duty). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower.

[Quran 34:44 YusufAli] But We had not given them Books which they could study, nor sent messengers to them before thee as Warners. "Nor sent messengers to them before Muhammad as Warners" after he had said Abraham and Ishmael were there as messengers and built Kaaba.

Christianity, Sabaeanism and Islam are all acceptable to Allah

[Quran 2:62] Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

[Quran 3:85] If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).

[Quran 9:17] It is not for such as join gods with Allah, to visit or maintain the mosques of Allah while they witness against their own souls to infidelity. The works of such bear no fruit: In Fire shall they dwell.

All of Allah’s Messengers are equal

[Q uran 2:285] The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

[Quran 2:253] We have made some of these messengers to excel the others among them are they to whom Allah spoke, and some of them He exalted by (many degrees of) rank; and We gave clear miracles to Isa son of Marium, and strengthened him with the holy spirit. And if Allah had pleased, those after them would not have fought one with another after clear arguments had come to them, but they disagreed; so there were some of them who believed and others who denied; and if Allah had pleased they would not have fought one with another, but Allah brings about what He intends.

How to treat infidels

[Quran 9:29]Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel them-selves subdued.

[Quran 45:14] Tell those who believe,to forgive[/b]those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah: It is for Him to re-compense (for good or ill) each People according to what they have earned.

[b]Do the Jews love or hate each other?

[Quran 5:51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends;they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

[Quran 5:64] And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief;and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection[/b]whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers.

[b]Muslims cannot marry non-muslim women

[Quran 2:221]Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters),until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.

[Quran 5:5] This day (all) the good things are allowed to you; and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them; and the chaste from among the believing women[b]and the chaste from among those who have been given the Book be-fore you (are lawful for you);[/b]when you have given them their dowries, taking (them) in marriage, not fornicating nor taking them for paramours in secret; and whoever denies faith, his work indeed is of no account, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

Quran was sent to the Arabs

[Quran 41:44] Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?" Say: "It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"

[Qurani 4:174] O mankind! verily there hath come to you a convincing proof from your Lord: For We have sent unto you a light (that is) manifest

Muslims probe and let's have your findings.

ADAMSFMM:
When evil elements failed in blocking the Islamic tide, they resorted to dubious means and spread false propaganda which is continuing till this day.
It was claimed that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was responsible for making Muslims violent by teaching them the concept of Jihad, that he spread Islam by the power of the sword, that through his teachings Muslims became terrorists, that the status of women was reduced to that of a prisoner. It was claimed that it is due to such teachings there is violence in the world and that Muslims are responsible for all that is evil in the world today.
The claim that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) taught Muslims to use violence and wage Jihad against one and all is baseless. During his own life-time, Muslims fought many wars while they were in a disadvantaged position in terms of numbers and arms. They had empty pockets and lacked horses and fighters. Despite such handicap, they came out victorious in all battles.
Historical evidence tells us that both Byzantine and Persia indulged in creating towers of human heads after their victories but the Muslim armies led by the Prophet and his lietenats never adopted such repressive means to celebrate their victories and behaved in a civilized way.wise up friend.

MizJanet:
Just show me the part/bible quote thats not truthful ?

MizJanet:
If you happen to meet a man who said ' I have seen buhari' but later say " no man has seen buhari" what will you call him ? *winks* Of course , he is contradicting himself , with this example in your minds carefully look at the below texts

John 20:25 " so the other disciples told him, we HAVE SEEN the Lord"

1Tim 6:15 " whom no man hath seen " .

1st statement showed men has seen Jesus WHILE the second says no man has seen Jesus . Confusion And Contradiction !

................................O................................

Level 2

1 Tim 6:15 " whom no man ... CAN SEE"

But notice the text below

Rev 1:7 " Look, he is coming with the clouds and every eye WILL SEE HIM"

Buhahaha , the 1st says no man Can See Him While the 2nd says every eye shall SEE HIM .

Bunch of confusion . Lol , is the bible confuse ?

MizJanet:
Is this another style of saying "I dont know what to contribute to the topic " ?

MizJanet:
see their slow responses , that nut is too hard for them to crack

menesheh:
Assignment comment. Lengthy

MizJanet:
Am very fine and you ?

MizJanet:
*turns off radio*

Scholar8200:
Right from the time of Cain down to Enoch (not an Israelite,mind you), Job,(not an Israelite too), Abraham, Abimelech on to the nations that came after the flood and the great dispersion,God has been revealing Himself to man.
This was summarised in Romans 1:21-23

21 Because when they knew and recognized Him as God, they did not honor and glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. But instead they became futile and [c]godless in their thinking [with vain imaginings, foolish reasoning, and stupid speculations] and their senseless minds were darkened.
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools [professing to be smart, they made simpletons of themselves].
23 And by them the glory and majesty and excellence of the immortal God were exchanged for and represented by images, resembling mortal man and birds and beasts and reptiles.

Do atheist believe man die like the beasts? death ends it all?
Do your own research to those nations and their lifestyle first (after the flood).At least it's good you believe those nations existed. There was a stern warning to Israel to avoid their ways but when they failed, similar judgement came. I saw a post by you or perhaps one of yours that we dont need the Bible to tell us that murder is wrong. (Indeed anyone with a conscience realises this; do animals have conscience too?) Question is Who then takes vengeance when the Nihilist goes on rampage doing that which the atheist (with a conscience) believes is wrong but has no power to restrain?
Clamoring for worship from who? you? Realise that man was created for a purpose and when he deviates from that,there being no void,he becomes useful for another purpose opposite from that for which he was created. This is explained by the anarchy and cesspool of vileness found in places such as Sodom, Pompeii etc You that claimed we dont need the Bible to tell us murder is wrong now take sides with nations that do such and many more unimaginable abominations?!

Well it's strange to measure God or try to understand with an under-utilised brain (no matter how bright it is).