₦airaland Forum

sixteen08: Had a stint with ibtc equity and ethical,zenith,wapic,dangote sugar even though the experience was a mixture of pain and gain. But right now I am jus trying to get a foothold of my finances and when am done I'll get back into the stock market full-fledged cos I know much better now than I used to know before.

So aside from building your own house and probably one or two more its best to "b[b]one" the real estate till sanity is restored abi??[/b]

sixteen08: Had a stint with ibtc equity and ethical,zenith,wapic,dangote sugar even though the experience was a mixture of pain and gain. But right now I am jus trying to get a foothold of my finances and when am done I'll get back into the stock market full-fledged cos I know much better now than I used to know before.

So aside from building your own house and probably one or two more its best to "bone" the real estate till sanity is restored abi??

sixteen08: @mannie @ajanlekoko so what advice do you have for people like us who are looking to invest in real estate in the nearest future *all things being equal*

222Martins: Sir, please i never called you a stock guru; and i personally forbid being called such because no man has monopoly over knowledge. I called you a savvy investor....meaning a knowledgeable and sound minded investor. Secondly, don't categorize yourself as being like every other investor on the exchange because majority of individual investors in the market are mere speculators or gamblers.

Peterwins: You just got about 4% (per annun) on your investment of 400k. Was it a fixed deposit, call deposit or just a savings account? At an inflation rate of about 9.5% in Nigeria you have a negative return of 5.5% on your 400k investment.

Yes you can do better with other options depending on your investment goals and objectives. However beware of Ponzi/Pyramid schemes in various disguise (forms) in Nigeria these days. It is better you continue with your 4% "investment" at the bank than to lose it to financial scams.

You need to answer some of the following questions:

1. What are my investment goals and objectives?

2. Are you presently unemployed, under-employed, employed or self-employed?

3. Are you single or married with or without kid(s)? Surprised!!! Marital status (including age) plays a role in risk analysis.

4. How religious are you? Surprised again!!!! Ask the proponents of ethical or sharia banking and investments.

5. How liquid (ability to turn part or all of your investment to cash at any given time) do you want your investment to be.

6. Tenure. How long do you want to invest? Daily, monthly, quarterly, yearly on a short, medium or long time.

7. Cash Flow. How often do you want your return (interest/profit/income) on your investment? Daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly or yearly.

8. Return on investment. How much (%) do you expect from your investment during its lifetime (tenure).

9. Capital Gain/Loss. The real (or net) value of your investment may appreciate or depreciate over the period (tenure) of your investment as a result of inflation, deflation, etc.

10. Security. How secure (safe) do you want your investment?

11. Personal Supervision. Do you have the time to personally watch over your investments? Some investments require personal supervision. Alternatively you could pay a "professional" to supervise your investments on your behalf.

12. What is your health status? Wondering why!!! Some initially good investments gone bad have sent some people to their early graves or develop health complications such as hypertension. Do you realise some Nigerians (investors) died or developed hypertension as a result of the stock market crash (bust) in 2008/2009.

13. An unlucky number in some cultures or belief system. So let me stop here for now.

These questions (or comments) may seem too much but are quite important if you want to become an objective investor (in any field) rather than a subject one.

These are just my personal opinion (views) and comments. Cheers!!!

AjanleKoko: In 2005, I paid about N1.8m for two plots of virgin land on the Ajah axis. The land was being developed by one of the MNC cooperative societies. They sold the land to their members and non-members alike, through their bankers.

They held on to my cash for two years, only to write me in 2007 requesting for a a development levy of about N3.2m per plot, making N6.4m in total. I refused of course, and they still hold on to my cash till today, refusing my requests for a refund of my purchase price

AjanleKoko: In 2005, I paid about N1.8m for two plots of virgin land on the Ajah axis. The land was being developed by one of the MNC cooperative societies. They sold the land to their members and non-members alike, through their bankers.

They held on to my cash for two years, only to write me in 2007 requesting for a a development levy of about N3.2m per plot, making N6.4m in total. I refused of course, and they still hold on to my cash till today, refusing my requests for a refund of my purchase price

AjanleKoko: Well, during that period, I did both short term trading (using a broker), and I did value investing as well.
I started in 2001, signed up with a broker, and opened a trading account which is still active till date. Also started doing commercial papers with Denham at the time.

I also particpated in a lot of the post-consolidation IPOs, and private placements. Also did mutual funds with ARM (Discovery, Aggressive Growth), and IBTC Equity, which are still active, though the AGF and IBTC Equity took major hits as a result of the stock market tank in 2009.

Most of my blue chip stocks were bought off the secondary market, like Guinness, WAMCO, Nestle, etc., as well as public offers for FBN, GT Bank, Oando, WAPCO Lafarge, and a host of others. Also did private placements with the likes of IGI, ARM Properties (which is why some of us support the toll road )

I took a break in 2009 to focus on real estate, mostly due to the crash of the markets. This had mixed results. I lost a significant amount of money on some very bad buys and also suffered due to lack of information about the dynamics of the market. Also have money stuck in some of the frozen projects along the Lekki-Epe expressway, but still managed to make some valuable purchases. Which forms my conclusion that the real estate industry is still in embryo stage, not even infancy. You have to get down and dirty to make it in real estate.

I've also done some private equity investing in ventures within and outside Nigeria, which is beginning to show some positive results. But these days I am starting to trade actively on the short sell. The market is starting to pick up again, so some coins can still be made there

222Martins: Do you think with your brains at all? Why should i stalk or troll you? I said investing, unlike politics is a sensitive subject and people shouldn't just give or receive information anyhow? So what does that have to do with trolling? You quoted my thread and i responded; is that what you call trolling? You claimed you know nothing about investing, yet you are busy telling people that the market is struggling; a market you know nothing about. Now let me tell you this: When it comes to the subject of investing especially stocks, please shut your mouth and let the savvy individuals like maine and stockbull talk because you are totally incompetent.

Akpan107: Manie, you are really doing a nice job, God bless you! I bought some UBA shares around 2008 at the rate of N29, N8, N7.30, N7.10 and N7 respectively, a total of 54,000 units. I intend keeping it for a long time, but i dont really know the future of the company. I have the follwing shares: First Bank
Zenith Bank
Dan Sugar
Oando
Fidelity Bank
Skye Bank
Bank PHB (i lost all the 93,000 units i bought)
Oceanic Bank (now EcoBank)
Now, is it adviceable to keep them for a long term investiment?

iwe oku: @ manie, you guyz are doing a great job here. thumbs up
am a doctor with little or no financial education , can't even interprete company fact sheet ,or result.don't even understand the meaning of some indices like P.E etc currently am groping in the dark.started investing in the market january this year.
pls i need u give me link to any book that will give the basic financial education.
thanks . expecting urgent reply

AjanleKoko: I sold off more than half of my value portfolio in 2009, to invest in real estate. I still have a reasonable holding of blue-chip stocks.



I didn't sell my blue-chip stocks to finance those. I usually use my performance bonuses, leave allowance, and even accessed unsecured personal loans, which some of my colleagues then were using to import Tokunbo jeeps from America.

Not all the private placements were bad, but they were expensive, very expensive. Some of them, like ARM Properties, pay reasonable dividends.

A[b]part from Oando, most of the public offers were not overpriced in my view. Between 2004 and 2006, there were public offers from GT, Access, FBN, Intercontinental, IBTC, Zenith[/b]. If you cashed out at the right time for the likes of IBTC and Zenit, you should have been smiling. I bought Zenith in 2004 at 10.60, and exited at 61 naira in 2007.

Intercontinental also was a good buy at the time. I cashed out early but I was still able to receive up to 8,000 units in bonus shares. After the rebasing due to the takeover by access, I think it came out to a little under 2k units.

AjanleKoko: I sold off more than half of my value portfolio in 2009, to invest in real estate. I still have a reasonable holding of blue-chip stocks.



I didn't sell my blue-chip stocks to finance those. I usually use my performance bonuses, leave allowance, and even accessed unsecured personal loans, which some of my colleagues then were using to import Tokunbo jeeps from America.

Not all the private placements were bad, but they were expensive, very expensive. Some of them, like ARM Properties, pay reasonable dividends.

Apart from Oando, most of the public offers were not overpriced in my view. Between 2004 and 2006, there were public offers from GT, Access, FBN, Intercontinental, IBTC, Zenith. If you cashed out at the right time for the likes of IBTC and Zenit, you should have been smiling. I bought Zenith in 2004 at 10.60, and exited at 61 naira in 2007.

Intercontinental also was a good buy at the time. I cashed out early but I was still able to receive up to 8,000 units in bonus shares. After the rebasing due to the takeover by access, I think it came out to a little under 2k units.

Peterwins: Yes. A very rare feat (for an individual investor) on stocks like Nestle, PZ Cussons, Cadbury(on technical suspension at a time), Unilever, etc in 2007.

The acquisition (purchase) of 3 million shares of these stocks by an individual investor on the floor of the exchange in less than "ten (10) working/trading days in 2007" is rather misleading but possible with bank stocks.

At a point in time (over a long period) the quantity (inclusive of the no. of deals) of bank stocks traded where over 70% of the overall quantities traded on the NSE.

I have no qualms with your claims (prowess) but I seek a more balanced (truly professional) approach to certain issues or discussions especially because of naive investors.

AjanleKoko: That guy has been proven to be a scammer.
Just like his Monacom, he obviously used the IGI private placement to canvass for funds.

mrjingles: The problem with Oando is their business model, I think only the downstream portion of the overall business is listed, the upstream and midstream divisions are isolated from the listed business, in addition the complicated transfer pricing strategy within the downstream business means most of the income does not flow to the listed business. Its not a good buy from my limited knowledge. Its just a structure designed to benefit a few of the owners. I don't blame them but investors should "shine eye" by doing proper research. The number one killer in investing is lack of knowledge because of failure to do proper due diligence. In other words laziness.

mrjingles: The problem with Oando is their business model, I think only the downstream portion of the overall business is listed, the upstream and midstream divisions are isolated from the listed business, in addition the complicated transfer pricing strategy within the downstream business means most of the income does not flow to the listed business. Its not a good buy from my limited knowledge. Its just a structure designed to benefit a few of the owners. I don't blame them but investors should "shine eye" by doing proper research. The number one killer in investing is lack of knowledge because of failure doing due diligence. In other words laziness.

Peterwins: Who are your stock brokers? I will advice you to sack them and move over to mine. I use stock brokers that controls 60% of the trade on the exchange.

Please name your brokers that controls 60% of trade on the exchange and I will tell you how they (infact every investor) also lost not less than 60% of their investments in mid/late 2008 and 2009. The NSE lost about N7 trillion then. From an average market capitalisation of over N12 trillion to an average market capitalisation of about N5.5 trillion.

I stand to be corrected 3 million units of NB be shares can be bought within maximum of 10 trading days in 2007.

I wish this was a statement of fact rather than fiction in 2007. Perhaps by institutional investors such as mutual fund managers.

Do not forget that the stocks that were never available in 2006 to 2008 were the banking and insurance stocks.

Another half truth. The banking stocks where readily available (banking consolidation era), while the insurance stocks (penny stocks like Guinea Insurance, Mutual Benefit Insurance, etc ) where not.

A lot of gullible investors sold their blue chip stocks like NB, Guinness, Unilever, PZ, Total< Flour Mill to invest in Private Placements between 2006 and 2008. That was why these stocks had attractive PE ratios because they were on offer.


Gullible investors? Really!!! I rather not use the word gullible but misinformed (ill advised) investors who where misled by their biased "professional" advisers who claimed to know the "market" more than the "market woman".

Talk is cheap but right (proper) information is power.

AjanleKoko: You know, I did that N600 NBL analysis.
Even if the stock was priced at 1 naira a share back then (which was impossible in 1972), and the company did a 1:1 every four years since then, you would have ended up with around 307,000 shares today (2013).

Though you could argue that N600 (300 Nigerian pounds) in 1972 was most people's six months or 1 year salary. A brand new car in 1972 (Opel Kadett), bought by my father, sold for less than one thousand Nigerian pounds.

Redoil: i am left with only one choice to bow to ur superior reasons and arguments. well done and continue the good work. You deserve a big drum of ogogoro for a job well done.

AjanleKoko: 97 naira in 2004 for the public offer. There wasn't any IPO because UNIPETROL (their predecessor) was already listed at that time, and was trading.
Oando has been one of the worst-performing stocks in recent history. Definitely one of the worst for me[b], which is why I ignored their recent rights issue[/b]. Even the bonuses and dividends have not been impressive.

Josh121: @ Manie How do you see this two stocks , Nahco and Nascon .

Peterwins: "Over 2 million units of NB shares were sold yesterday" is an incomplete information in the context of my comment/query. I would have sincerely appreciated it if you had completed the statement by stating the number of deals that transpired in order to properly inform naive investors . It may surprise you to know that those that bought 100,000 units and above in a single deal in yesterday's transaction where institutional investors. Most individual investors don't get a chance to purchase these stocks in large quantities even with available cash. You may be lucky to get even 10,000 units.

I was a bit miffed when you said you could have purchased 3,000,000 units of NB shares in 2007 as if the quantity of the stock was readily available to individual investors. If you had mentioned bank/insurance stocks I would have agreed with you because they were in abundant supply in 2007.

The daily average quantities of tradeable stocks like Nestle, Cadbury, Guinness,Unilever, etc are quite limited compared to financial industry stocks. This can easily and readily confirmed. The financial sub-sector have the highest quantity of tradeable stocks in the NSE.

It would have taken you several months (if not over a year) to have purchased 3,000,000 units of NB shares as an individual investor in 2007. You would have needed to purchase an average of 250,000 units of NB shares a month for 12 consecutive months in 2007 to acquire 3 million units. A rare stunt for an individual investor back then.

There is a need for proper information.

Peterwins: "Over 2 million units of NB shares were sold yesterday" is an incomplete information in the context of my comment/query. I would have sincerely appreciated it if you had completed the statement by stating the number of deals that transpired in order to properly inform naive investors . It may surprise you to know that those that bought 100,000 units and above in a single deal in yesterday's transaction where institutional investors. Most individual investors don't get a chance to purchase these stocks in large quantities even with available cash. You may be lucky to get even 10,000 units.

I was a bit miffed when you said you could have purchased 3,000,000 units of NB shares in 2007 as if the quantity of the stock was readily available to individual investors. If you had mentioned bank/insurance stocks I would have agreed with you because they were in abundant supply in 2007.

The daily average quantities of tradeable stocks like Nestle, Cadbury, Guinness,Unilever, etc are quite limited compared to financial industry stocks. This can easily and readily confirmed. The financial sub-sector have the highest quantity of tradeable stocks in the NSE.

It would have taken you several months (if not over a year) to have purchased 3,000,000 units of NB shares as an individual investor in 2007. You would have needed to purchase an average of 250,000 units of NB shares a month for 12 consecutive months in 2007 to acquire 3 million units. A rare stunt for an individual investor back then.

There is a need for proper information.

plural: @Manie:

Thanks for your valuable insights.

Which stockbroker do you use?

I have a practical question for posters:
Assuming I am able to save 20,000 monthly from my salary, how can I invest this?



I use BGL Securities, FBN Securities, UBA Stock brokers and Union capital market.

plural: @Manie:

Thanks for your valuable insights.

Which stockbroker do you use?

I have a practical question for posters:
Assuming I am able to save 20,000 monthly from my salary, how can I invest this?

I use BGL securities, FBN securities, UBA stock brokers and Union capital market.

oseiwe: Thanks, but I'm in Benin, I bought it in Benin too. Do you have their email?

feelamong: At times it seems like you are preaching when you tell people to take time and study the market and coys they are investing in...Manie has said it all!

For anyone to make money in any endeavour, it takes time and energy! you also have to be patience!

I have made money and also losses in the market but in all I have made more money than losses! Just a few of months ago.. I bought Diamond bank at N1.99, sterling at 0.99k and UBA at N2.

I intend to hold these stocks for the next five years at least before i start selling for a start up...

The less people that understand the market.. the better for us!! no wonder its so diff to make the kind of money we make in the NSE in the LSE!

AjanleKoko: Well, during that period, I did both short term trading (using a broker), and I did value investing as well.
I started in 2001, signed up with a broker, and opened a trading account which is still active till date. Also started doing commercial papers with Denham at the time.

I also particpated in a lot of the post-consolidation IPOs, and private placements. Also did mutual funds with ARM (Discovery, Aggressive Growth), and IBTC Equity, which are still active, though the AGF and IBTC Equity took major hits as a result of the stock market tank in 2009.

Most of my blue chip stocks were bought off the secondary market, like Guinness, WAMCO, Nestle, etc., as well as public offers for FBN, GT Bank, Oando, WAPCO Lafarge, and a host of others. Also did private placements with the likes of IGI, ARM Properties (which is why some of us support the toll road )

I took a break in 2009 to focus on real estate, mostly due to the crash of the markets. This had mixed results. I lost a significant amount of money on some very bad buys and also suffered due to lack of information about the dynamics of the market. Also have money stuck in some of the frozen projects along the Lekki-Epe expressway, but still managed to make some valuable purchases. Which forms my conclusion that the real estate industry is still in embryo stage, not even infancy. You have to get down and dirty to make it in real estate.

I've also done some private equity investing in ventures within and outside Nigeria, which is beginning to show some positive results. But these days I am starting to trade actively on the short sell. The market is starting to pick up again, so some coins can still be made there

AjanleKoko: Well, during that period, I did both short term trading (using a broker), and I did value investing as well.
I started in 2001, signed up with a broker, and opened a trading account which is still active till date. Also started doing commercial papers with Denham at the time.

I also particpated in a lot of the post-consolidation IPOs, and private placements. Also did mutual funds with ARM (Discovery, Aggressive Growth), and IBTC Equity, which are still active, though the AGF and IBTC Equity took major hits as a result of the stock market tank in 2009.

Most of my blue chip stocks were bought off the secondary market, like Guinness, WAMCO, Nestle, etc., as well as public offers for FBN, GT Bank, Oando, WAPCO Lafarge, and a host of others. Also did private placements with the likes of IGI, ARM Properties (which is why some of us support the toll road )

I took a break in 2009 to focus on real estate, mostly due to the crash of the markets. This had mixed results. I lost a significant amount of money on some very bad buys and also suffered due to lack of information about the dynamics of the market. Also have money stuck in some of the frozen projects along the Lekki-Epe expressway, but still managed to make some valuable purchases. Which forms my conclusion that the real estate industry is still in embryo stage, not even infancy. You have to get down and dirty to make it in real estate.

I've also done some private equity investing in ventures within and outside Nigeria, which is beginning to show some positive results. But these days I am starting to trade actively on the short sell. The market is starting to pick up again, so some coins can still be made there

AjanleKoko: Well, during that period, I did both short term trading (using a broker), and I did value investing as well.
I started in 2001, signed up with a broker, and opened a trading account which is still active till date. Also started doing commercial papers with Denham at the time.

I also particpated in a lot of the post-consolidation IPOs, and private placements. Also did mutual funds with ARM (Discovery, Aggressive Growth), and IBTC Equity, which are still active, though the AGF and IBTC Equity took major hits as a result of the stock market tank in 2009.

Most of my blue chip stocks were bought off the secondary market, like Guinness, WAMCO, Nestle, etc., as well as public offers for FBN, GT Bank, Oando, WAPCO Lafarge, and a host of others. Also did private placements with the likes of IGI, ARM Properties (which is why some of us support the toll road )

I took a break in 2009 to focus on real estate, mostly due to the crash of the markets. This had mixed results. I lost a significant amount of money on some very bad buys and also suffered due to lack of information about the dynamics of the market. Also have money stuck in some of the frozen projects along the Lekki-Epe expressway, but still managed to make some valuable purchases. Which forms my conclusion that the real estate industry is still in embryo stage, not even infancy. You have to get down and dirty to make it in real estate.

I've also done some private equity investing in ventures within and outside Nigeria, which is beginning to show some positive results. But these days I am starting to trade actively on the short sell. The market is starting to pick up again, so some coins can still be made there