₦airaland Forum

Joagbaje: We don't have detail of that. They would if there were high priest in their generation. But abraham is our father of faith who's faith we follow. The revelation of God to him was trusted that he would teach even his household .they followed his faith. He is the father of us all.


Romans 4:16,
. . . but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

scripture doesn't say Abram tithed because of his faith.

Due to my blindness, tithe teachers who insist that I tithe my money to them are guilty of attempting to rob me. God didn't require the poor to tithe in the Holy Word. Instead, he said that the poor were to receive the tithe.

Yet, so many poor are made poorer while the rich tithe teachers get richer.

I came to the realization that the monetary tithe requirement doctrine was unbiblical long before I stumbled upon NL Forums.

The year was 1988, the year I was ordained to preach the Gospel.

I had applied myself to much study that year, more so than any of the 9 years I had been saved. I had been raised (from an infant) in the Assembly of God denomination, which, as you know, rely heavily on the monetary tithes they receive of their members. Mother was very sincere in paying her tithes out of her Social Security income each month, setting an example that she expected the five of her children to follow.

We were taught that if we did not pay tithes, we were robbing God of what was HIs, and so through the years until my ordination, I believed tithing was what we were supposed to do.

That is, until I got serious in my study. In my studies, I ran across the verse in Romans 8 that declares the child of God to be joint-heir with Christ. It hit me then and there! Because I was a joint-heir, I had possessions that I had not seen as of yet. I began to search out what my "possessions" were, and in the process of searching those possessions, I began to study the tithes and the Law.

Now, I learned that I had been brought into a New Covenant because of my trusting Christ, but the Word that began to open to my vision and understanding was mind-boggling to say the least. I learned that it was not me that was guilty of robbing God, but that the Church was actually robbing me when they taught the monetary tithe.

I have heard the lame argument that "Abram tithed before the Law". But the more I searched the New Covenant, I could not justify teaching, nor bowing to the monetary tithe doctrine.

The New Covenant is not found anywhere in the Holy Scriptures before the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. I cannot rely on Old Testament values and standards to guide me in New Covenant giving.

The reason? Abram's tithe was not his own property. He told God he would not even claim it as his own, knowing if he did Bera, the king of Sodom would have reason to brag on how he had made Abram rich. So, the question I had to ask myself was, "If Abram's tithe was not his own riches, how can I pattern a tithe based on that? Am I to go to war as Abram and tithe from the spoils as he did? Being blind, that is an impossibility. I surely would not know who I was shooting at, or when someone was pointing their gun at me. I would lose that war the first day.

The Army would not have me anyway due to my blindness.

Then, I looked at Jacob. Jacob made a vow to God to give a tenth of all that he acquired, but only if God would meet certain requirements first. One of those requirements was not met until nearly twenty-one years after Jacob made his vow. There is no indication in the Word of God that says Jacob ever fulfilled that vow. (though God did meet all of the required objectives that Jacob set forth in his vow) I fI were to pattern a tithe after Jacob, then that meant I could bargain with God before paying a tithe. Making demands of Him first. Maybe tell Him I will tithe after He gives me land, wealth, and much possessions as Jacob did? HMMMM. That just doesn't sound like a required tithe, does it? If it was required, Jacob would not have been able to bargain with God as he did.

The only other tithes mentioned are under the Mosaic and Levitical Law, which, the Holy Ghost and the Apostles said Gentile Converts were not to be required to follow.

After that study, I was totally convinced that tithing was not for the child of God.

But then, I ran across a troubling passage in the New Testament. It declares that there are some who are required to follow the Law... the unrighteous.

I post those verses here now:

1 Timothy 1:1-10 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope; Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord. As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Do you see that Brethren? Those that teach contrary to sound doctrine are supposed to be obeying the Mosaic Law. The teachers of the monetary tithe are teaching contrary to sound doctrine. They have not submitted to Christ yet. The Law is still their schoolmaster. The bondwoman and her son are part of their household and they don't even realize it.

Paul told the Galatians that those who were of the Law were to continue in all things written in the Law to do them. The Law calls for a tithe of crops, flocks and herds. The Law calls for many other things besides the tithe that these modern tithe teachers must follow or suffer a curse as the Word of God declares.

We who have come to Christ are no longer under a schoolmaster. We are not housing the bondwoman and her son. Whom the Son sets free is free indeed! Bless His Holy Name.

Yes, those who teach that God requires a monetary tithe are teaching contrary to sound doctrine. The monetary tithe requirement doctrine can be found only in the vain imagination of man's heart... it is not anywhere written in God's Holy Word. Because they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, their worship is in vain. Their master is not the Lord in the matter, it is the Law.

The Lord will judge them according to the Law because they teach contrary to sound doctrine and are therefore bound to the Law.

[quote author=m.k.o2005]1: Was tithe ever for showing appreciation to God? if yes, where can this be found "verse by verse, chapter by chapter? It can be found in Genesis 14:18-20 and Genesis 28:12-15 and Genesis 28:20-22.[/quote]Genesis 28 does not say any tithed at all. What it says is a vow was made to give a tenth of everything IF God would meet certain requirements first. There is no verse that says Jacob ever fulfilled that vow.

2: The tithe of old was a necessity because the priests then were barred from working nor owning any property in the land, so they depended on the FRUITS/FOODS brought to the church by the other 11 tribes (TRUE or FALSE)? HEAVY FALSE when you want to follow the Jesus(Melchizedekal order of tithing) kind of tithing that is still strange to most of you after all the explanation done by Paul in Hebrews ! But if you like to follow the abolished levetical order of tithing,then it's TRUE !

But the Bible nowhere says were are to follow the "order of Melchizedekal tithing"... whatever "Melchizedekel tithing" is. Abram did tithe to Melchizedek in Genesis 14, but he did not tithe his own riches. He tithed the spoils of war to him. The Bible nowhere says Abram ever tithed of the silver and gold or cattle that he owned prior to going on his rescue mission.

Besides, Hebrews 8 reveals that we have been brought into a new covenant. Not the Old Mosaic and Levitical Law Covenant, nor any Melchizedek Covenant (if there ever was one". No, we are brought into a New Covenant. Where does that New Covenant tell us that we are to tithe our money to the Church?

3: Was tithe ever paid with money during the time of old either by Abram, The other 11 tribes or whoever in the old testament? The bible expecially the Melchizedekal order of tithing allows us to tithe on anything we deem fit to show appreciation to God ! Abraham gave a tenth of all he got from war(spoils of war) There could be cash,ram,turkey,Gold,silver,bronze and so on. If you also doubt me,go check the meaning of spoils of war and go through ur bible to see for urself that the tenth(God's tithe) archan stole from that gold silver and bronze were part of it. ANd we saw Abraham vowed to give tithe of ALL THAT HE POSSESS ! This also goes to show that i can tithe of all my possession including,landed properties as a real estate investor and also of my goods in the market place including my cash since they are part of all i possess.

If Abram's tithes included money, it was not his money... it was the spoils of war that belonged to Bera, king of Sodom. Abram did not even claim the spoils as his own. He didn't want them. He knew if he claimed them Bera would brag about making Abram rich. Abram's tithe was not his own riches. And Abram did not vow to tithe all that he possessed. Jacob vowed to give a tenth, but there is no indication in the Word of God that Jacob ever did tithe.

4: Why did Jesus or any of his disciples not pay tithe while alive in the flesh? if they did, any "[b]precise" chapter and verse to buttress this claim?[/b] Jesus admonished the scribes and pharisees to continue to teach and pay their tithes even as they give credence to Justice,mercy and faith !This HE did in the presence of HIS disciples in Mathew 23:23 ! Jesus HIMSELF received tithe in Genesis 14 as a christophany but yee all fail to comprehend hence the essence of Hebrews 7 and you are still doubting ! Jesus did not receive the levetical order of tithing becos HE isn't qualified to do so ,WHY ? Becos it is the perverse kind of tithing ! It was not the original plans set out by God concerning tithing ! It is not the grace kind of tithing as we see in Hebrews and even Gen 14 before the Law !

God help us

Jesus did not tithe because He lived under the Law. The Law demanded tithes of crops and livestock, not tithes of carpentry work. None of the Apostles was said to be a farmer or herder either. They could not tithe.

Jesus told the Pharisees to tithe what they were tithing... things grown in a garden... not money. The Pharisees were supposed to tithe because the Law required it. Jesus only told them to obey the Law that they were bound to. That was not a command for the post-cross Christians to tithe.

Image123: Bring ye ALL the tithe.

all the tithe under the Law was crops and livestock. Nothing else.

The storehouse was in Jerusalem. There is no indication in the pages of God's Holy Word that the storehouse was moved to another location

Image123: Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

The tithe there is not the same tithe men demand today.

OLAADEGBU: You reject the truth? If you have truly given your heart to the Lord you will not hesitate to follow in the footsteps of Abraham who paid tithes.

(Galatians 3:29).

Abram did not "pay tithes." Why do you lie against the Word as you do?

OLAADEGBU: True. Gentiles were not told to pay tithes so don't take panadol for someone else's headache.



Remember that the article is referring to "believers" not "unbelievers," so if you are interested in obeying God then give your heart first to the Lord and then you will not hesitate to give your wallet if and when the Lord demands it.





Why should you give your wallet when you cannot give your heart to the Lord?



True. Repent and believe the gospel, then follow in the footstep of Abraham, the father of all those who believe.

I have given my heart to the Lord. He has not, nor will He ever tell me to tithe my money. Nor has He told anyone else to do such. His Word says our giving is to be as we choose in our hearts to give, not as someone else demands for us.

You teach contrary to the written Word, Olaadegbu. I reject your false doctrine.

OLAADEGBU: Believers are to live up to their responsibility of regularly paying their tithes and offerings, so that this generation of anointed ministers of God is not lost to commerce and industry.

We are not told to pay tithes. That was a command for the nation of Israel and had nothing whatsoever to do with other nations. Ministers who teach that we are "responsible for paying tithes" are dishonest, whether intentional or not intentional.

Those who manage church estate need to be faithful, honest and prudent, so that there is no lack in God's house. How faithful are you in obeying God's command to bring in all the tithes? To deny the Church of your tithes is to rob God of what rightly belongs to Him. To obey is better than sacrifice. You can make amends if you are found wanting.

God hasn't commanded us to tithe our money. That command came from the lips of a preacher who is either greedy for filthy lucre, or guilty of misinterpreting the Word of God due to improper study. The only amends that should be made are the amends of the Pastors who are robbing the people of God with their "God requires a tithe" lie.

These pastors should feel the same guilt that Zacchaeus did and repent of their wickedness. They should then pay back all that they have robbed from the people of God as Zacchaeus did.

Thought for the day:Give, not of necessity but cheerfully

And this statement totally contradicts your "responsibility to tithe" statement.

A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Pastor Kun: Bros stop trying to be disingenuous, even if they did (which is highly unlikely) it was not required of them by law. We cannot rule out some people who try to be overzealous. What really matters is what God commanded and not what some mis guided people decided to do.

or are guilted into doing

Image123: Onus? It is on the persons who insist that God does not accept tithe to show us where God said that. As far as we know, people have given tithes of non agric produce and Gd accepted. There is no incidence of God rejecting tithes because it is non agric. We have seen Abraham and Jacob tithe non agric. The scribes gave tithe, so why not the fishermen?

Where do you see Jacob tithing non-agricultural tithes? Certainly not in the Word of God! Jacob only made a vow. Scripture doesn't say he kept that vow.

Concerning what God said was to be tithed, you deny that by trying to invent other things to be tithed. God stated what was titheable in Leviticus 27. All the tithe of the land consisted of crops and livestock... nothing else.

As Pastor Kun said, the onus is on you to prove that your claim that fish and money could be tithed.

Image123: There was no argument that there were other professions. The question was for you to show us the Bible that you cllaimed to prohibit fishermen from givin tithes. Are you a child of Mamre or what are you asking? Folks should learn to ask questions for understanding, not foolish questions like sadducces. How do you conclude that all the others did not give? Is there record that they gave any offering or sacrifice or prayed or gave birth or died. So if something is not recorded, it must be concluded that it never happened? i'm waiting for that verse you said, or you tell us that you were mistaken in presumption.

please point to any Scripture in the Bible that says fish were tithed. I find land increase thithed, i.e.; the seed of the land, the fruit of the tree. I find livestock tithed. But for the life of me, I cannot find anything that says fishermen tithed.

I pointed to Genesis 4 in an attempt to show you that there were other occupations besides farming and herding. Tubalcain was a teacher who taught people how to work with brass. Noah (chapter 6) was a carpenter before the flood Yet no mention of either of these ever paying, or even giving tithes to anyone.

Later chapters in Genesis reveal tentmakers, bakers, butchers, brickmasons, and many other occupations. None of which are said to have paid, or even given, tithes.

None, that is, except Abram, and the farmers and herders of ancient Israel. Who, of course, is never said to have tithed of his own riches.

Of interest, why do you suppose it was only Abram that tithed to Melchizedek? Why not Aner, Eschol, and Mamre who obviously had assisted Abram in the Battle against the rebelling kings?

Did Abram's tithe represent all the people? How does that compare to each individual being required to tithe in the Church today? Only one of those men tithed... and that, not of his own property.

Boomark: destroy! It must. that bible that switch from Abraham's tithe to malachi tithe as if it is playing hide and seek.

I know what you mean, Bro. Prove them wrong in one, they run to the other. Prove them wrong there, they run back to the one.

It's a wonder they don't stay dizzy the way they run around in circles as they do. LOL

Boomark: Aaron and his sons were eating fermented cake. Eating from things of the altar. ie the maintenance principle Paul quoted.

You should have done well to show us that principle was about tithe. What Paul was referring to was very clear.

Wait, Boomark...
you mean to tell me they were "eating the things of the altar and not "spending" the things of the altar?

I mean, what are you trying to do, destroy the new Bible that the tither's have created?

LOL

Zikkyy: Now why would a fisherman tithe if God did not include him in the list. I wonder how some people reason. So if the president changes his cabinet today and provides a list of ministerial appointees, because the president did not say Image123 is not one of the appointees, you will go to Abuja and resume as a minister



God already told you what is holy to him. You want to add to it are you now God to decide for him? on what authority do you decide what is Holy to the Lord? since the passage did not limit God's tithe, you are saying we are now free to decide what is Holy to the Lord? can we now say tithe from prosti.tution or robbery is holy to the Lord? can you just listen to your self

maybe we can tithe sand? Or marbles? Better yet, tithe the dust that keeps accumulating on a daily basis?

These tithers should just stick to the Word of God, and leave their vain imaginations out of the equation.

swtchicgurl: If all I've said so far isn't enough for you, I'll have to just pray for you.

God bless

No, what you have said is not enough. Especially since the Word of God declares the tithes under the Law were eaten.

Do you eat gold and silver? Why do you insist that we believe the Israelites did?

swtchicgurl: I don't have anyhting against you sir! New Testament Gentile church?

Gentile Converts were not required to tithe according to Acts 15. The fact that the Gentile Churches were not told to tithe in any epistles in the New Testament confirms the decision made at the Jerusalem Council in 35 A.D..

swtchicgurl:
how did you manage to miss where i said "You can pay tithe of anything, cash, kind or material" Are you saying is only limited to farmers? are you not to tithe of the income of your occupation? are you a farmer?

God bless

God's tithe was never anything other than agricultural. Everywhere tithes are seen in the Law, they were of food products. How do you get "you can pay tithe of anything, cash, kind of material" out of tithes of food?

swtchicgurl: You judge me? By their fruit, we shall know them. I guess the truth hurts!

Your fruit clearly is not lining up with Scripture. You judge us to be in err because we point out that the tithe was never required in the New Testament Gentile Church, yet you have no Scripture to prove your allegations against us.

Verse also says "that there may be food in my house." Not money, food.

Amazing how she overlooked that important truth, eh?

Bidam: And you continue to dismiss the truth that says Moses was preached in the gentile nations.Paul preached the God of the Jews to the gentiles,NOT a different God.The only problem he had with the Jews was concerning the Resurrection of Jesus and their traditions,NOTHING more.

moses was preached to the Gentiles. Not as a standard though, for the Mosaic Law was not to be put upon the Gentiles. (Acts 15:10) gentiles were foolish to obey the Mosaic Law (Galatians 3) they would be committing spiritual adultery to submit to the Law while married to Christ (Romans 7:1-4)

swtchicgurl: [b]
I'll try to answer you briefly:

a) ok. paying tithe as an unbeliever is a waste of time.

b) who are levites? full-time workers in the house of God, whether pastor or gateman! "their inheritance is of the Lord" if then you don't bring what belongs to God to Him (tithe), how will the levites survive?!

c) at that time, wealth was measured based based on livestock, landed properties and family size. this day, it's basically money! we are not farmers! and yes, you can still tithe anything, money or materials!

d) then, how many times a year do you harvest as a farmer? now, how many times in a year do you recieve salary? pay your tithe as much time! if you are still a farmer, feel free to pay once a year sef... it all depends on when you have an "income"!

e) same as 'd' above

f) when people bring their tithes to the temple, them levites (full time church workers) take them into the storeshouses becos they have the access and authority to do that.

g) 'eating' one's tithe is solely by God's permission! there's a difference between 'you bringing me the money you owe me and i say, don't worry, you can have it' and 'you not bringing it at all'.

h and k) who is a 'poor'? are you poor? the poor will never sieze from the church. if you are 'poor', go ahead and don't pay your tithe! relate with God on the level of your faith! that poor widow gave her all (not just 10percent)!

i) the Lord is their inheritance (levites), also, the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof. connect the dots.

j) when there's no income, how do you tithe. you can only tithe when there's income.

I pray God will open your eyes! PAY YOUR TITHE![/b]

God has opened my eyes. Your worship is in vain.

The tithers claim the tithe has not been abolished. If what they claim is true, they run into some serious obstacles...

You see, according to the Word of God,

a) the children of Israel were required to pay God's Holy tithe, not Gentiles (Leviticus 27)
b) God's Holy tithe was to be given to the Levites, not pastors living in other countries (Numbers 18)
c) the tithe was crops and livestock, not money (Leviticus 27)
d) there were two tithes a year (not 26, not 52) every 1st, 2nd, 4th & 5th year in a seven year cycle (Leviticus 27; Deuteronomy 14)
e) there were three tithes every 3rd & 6th year (Leviticus 27; Deuteronomy 14)
f) only the Levites could bring tithes to the Temple storehouse (Nehemiah 10)
g) The feast tithe was to be eaten by the tither, his family, and the Levites in the place God chose (Deuteronomy 14)
h) the poor tithe was kept on the tither's property to feed widows, orphans, Levites, and refugees (Deuteronomy 14)
i) those who received God's Holy tithe could not own land.
j) every seventh year in a seven year cycle, the land was to rest. this means no harvesting, nor planting. no land tithe was possible.
k) The poor were not required to tithe, but rather were to recieve tithes (Deuteronomy 12; 14)

It is clear that this tithe they say was not abolished, is not observed by them. Why is that? Why is the tithe they teach contrary to the tithe that God ordained and they say was never done away with?

Image123: hahahahahaha, pathetic and yet funny. Genesis4 and reading on through many chapters? What does that even mean? Give us bible support that says that fishermen should not tithe. i do not need rocket science, just plain bible support, thanks. Don't make me conclude that ou have been presumptuously teaching for doctrine, the assumptions of men oh.

no, couldn't have me competing with you in the assumptions department. No worries though. I am not assuming.

Leviticus 27:30-33 gives the contents of God's Holy tithe. Fish were not tithed.

Image123: Any Biblical support for this claim, or is it yet another spurious claim founded on presumption?

the biblical support can be found beginning in GEnesis 4 and reading on.through many chapters.

Leviticus 27 reveals that tithes were of the seed of the ground (crops) the fruit of the trees (crops and oils) and every tenth animal of the flocks and herds that passed under the rod.

All the rest of the tithing Scriptures in the Old Testament testify to the fact that tithes were food and to be eaten.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that a carpenter sawing wood is not required to tithe. Fishermen also exempt. Masons, bakers, etc., all exempt from the tithe Law because they had no crops to tithe.

By the way, I found the verse you was trying to quote. You were using the NIV. Quite different from the KJV.

Paul did say he believed the Law and the Prophets. So what

I believe the Law and the Prophets too. The Law said the tithes were for the children of Israel. It did not say the tithe was for Gentile nations.
The Law said the tithe was to be eaten also. You continue to dismiss that fact while I believe it and preach it.

Bidam: Quick quiz:In the OT the tithes goes to who?

Is the tithe ONLY agricultural produce?

Multiple people. Primarily to the Levites. But also to widows, orphans, and refugees in Israel.

The tithe was only agricultural produce and livestock as per Leviticus 27:30-33.

Bidam: Go read the lev6:16 Paul made reference to.

Leviticus 6:16 is not about tithes... verse 15 reveals it is speaking of a meat offering.

Nice try though.

Bidam: Your ignorance of scriptures is quite alarming for someone who is preaching since 1979.What do you think Paul meant when he said?: I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets.

I am not ignorant about Scripture at all.

I searched my KJV for "I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets."

Guess what There is no verse that says that.

Your question was unintelligible.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to rephrase it?

1. Did u believe or act to d words in d old testmaments?

Tuntheycr7: Pls kindly answer ma question
1. Did u believe or act to d words in d old testmaments?
2. If No, why ?
NB: Dnt forget that majority of pple during BC are either farmer, fisherman or cattle rearer. No banker, no geologist, accountant, businessman or software devoloper.

artificers of brass, tentmakers, butchers, bakers, carpenters, stonemasons; these are but a few of the occupations that were in ancient Israel. They were not all farmers, herders and fishermen.

By the way, fisherment were not required to tithe either. Their increase was from the sea.