₦airaland Forum

Candour: You see why your tithe mentors can't be trusted. In the book I mentioned, he stated that the principle works every time. Maybe he forgot what he wrote in the one I have. [b]When was this one you're talking about published? [/b]The one I have was published in 1992. I'm sure this one you have is a more recent publication hence the revised promises.

Probably evidence has shown him that financial prosperity is not by tithing hence he has to remix it.

HCoB was written in 1995. Apparently, it didn't take Oyedepo long to twist his story... As all guilty people tend to do.

Image123: Simply get the book. It says in all the chapters that tithes do not work all the time, duh.

yet, God's Word declares that tithes produce results.

Who ya gonna believe? God? or Oyedepo?

Some want to believe Oyedepo's possibilities over God's assurance.

Smh

Oyedepo: "Tithe! Take a gamble! You just might get lucky and get a return!!"

God: "Tithe. I will open the windows of Heaven and pour you out a blessing!!"

Sorry, but this is a no-brainer. God promised blessings for tithing. He would not withhold those blessings for obedient children.

But the tithe God required is not the same tithe that Oyedepo requires. (although Oyedepo lies to all, telling them God requires it)

flexshop: wow, so only farmers should pay tithe, that's a new one

not really new at all. The truth that farmers were the only ones that were required to tithe has been taught since 1450 B.C..

Leviticus 27:30 (KJV) 30 And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:31 (KJV) 31 And if a man will at all redeem [ought] of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth [part] thereof.

Leviticus 27:32 (KJV) 32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, [even] of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:33 (KJV) 33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

It may shock you to also find out that God further limited the tithe to only those who were descendants of Jacob.

Leviticus 27:34 (KJV) 34 These [are] the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai.

Image123: It's not a distraction but a correction. A child of God should learn to accept his mistakes and be quick to repent instead of defending the indefensible. Abraham was not married to Hagar, i expect that you know this? Sarah was his wife and so also was Keturah. It shows how wrong he can be on so many issues, when he is wrong in this obvious issue

Zikkyy: Genesis 16:3 (KJV)
3 And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

Genesis 16:3 (NIV)
3 So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian slave Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.

Exactly! And Abraham did not marry Keturah until 113 years AFTER he married Hagar it shows how wrong Image123 can be on so many issues, when Image123 is wrong in this obvious issue

Thank you, Zikky. As you can see I did answer the questions.

Image123: No need to throw words into the air. Be specific. One, i am not Mark's standard so forget the "Image123 is also guilty" line already. Trying to bring me or anybody down does not erase the fact that Mark has side-stepped the pertinent questions he was asked and is instead more interested in telling us that Abraham has 3 wives.
What are the errors pointed out to me? What is my error on Oyedepo's book? You told me that you keep some of the 613 laws, and i said since you do, then stop disturbing us(paraphrased). Mark has not told us if he obeys any of the 613 laws. i am waiting for him to tell us.

the facts are,

1. I did answer your questions concerning the 613 Laws written in the Mosaic/Levitic Law. Your refusal to accept the answer I gave does not negate the fact that I answered them. Snce you continued asking questions that had already been answered, I chose to follw the advice given by the wise king Solomon and the Apostle Paul, who said:

Proverbs 26:4 (KJV) 4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Titus 3:9 (KJV)
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

2. Where we live, when a man and woman live together, have a child, and continue living in the same household, that is known as marriage and family. Abram was married to Hagar. This is clear because we see that he went in unto her, caused her to be with child, and continued to live with her in the household for years after.

They were married, no if's, and's or but's about it.

[quote author=m.k.o2005]Capital error ![/quote]Thank you for warning us that you were preparing to post a capital error. (as if we wouldn't have caught it anyway)

Jesus collected tithe,HE commended tithing and HE NEVER in any of HIS teaching admonish us against tithing !
If HE collected it & commended,how then do you expect me to stop giving it !

The Apostle Paul, who received the doctrines he taught from the Lord Jesus Christ, disagrees with you. Jesus Christ abolished the commandments contained in ordinances. (Eph. 2:14-15)

When Hebvrews was written, tithes were still being received by the Levites. This was at the same time that "there he revceiveth them". Christ was receiving the tithes that were being given to the Levites... those tithes were not monetary tithes. Rather, they were the tithes that were required under the Law... tithe of crops and livestock.

You were correct. Your post was indeed capital error.

God help us

Yes God, help them. Open the eyes and hearts of those who are being deceived into paying this man-made monetary tithe and let them see that you never authorized such a tithe to be received of pastors today. Let them see that their pastors have been lying to them and they are continuing that lie her on naira forums. Open their eyes to thy Word God that they may behold Thy wondrous truths and learn the Liberty that Christ has called His people into. Teach them to cast out the bondwoman, to cease their spiritual adultery that they commit every time they use the Mosaic/Levitic Law to justify their man-made monetary tithe requirement doctrine. Reveal to them the vanity that their worship is when they teach that man-made monetary tithe doctrine. In Jesus' name.

And all the Brethren said...

Goshen360: I endorse this message. In fact, I get increase in my hourly pay without tithing. I have two jobs, both with paid insurance, vacation, sick leaves, medical, if I loose, God forbid, any of my immediate family, I get compensation, lots of benefits, drive Chevy cruise 2013 brand new etc all the grace of God of undeserved favor on me. Yet, I'm yet to witness any devourer, neither am I sick nor any of my family. It's all because of the grace of God, glory to God.

if all your above benefits are the result of God's curse on you, then I need God to curse me in the same manner. LOL

you are blessed, my Brother... not cursed. Keep preaching the Truth as it is written in God's Word. Expose these greedy pastors and teachers for the fraudsters they truly are.

God bless.

God2man: I am very sad about this forum. I registered 2011, if i am not mistaken, there are over 100 threads on only one topic, TITHE, it is disheartening with the way they called old men of God that are old enough to be their fathers , thieves, fraudster, and that they are teaching nonsense, the Bible says, we should respect elders, there is no courtesy,a good christian must have the fruit of the spirit, up till now, i keep asking, are they Christians or Atheist? Because a good christian will not call old men of God thieves, it is not possibe, but this is in the dictionary of Anti-tithers. It is what you respect that comes into your life, if you want to grow old, you should respect your elders in the Christiandom, they are not Jesus, but they are the respresentatives of God on earth

There are more than enough topics in the Bible, i beg all of them to stop this overflogged, overdebated, tithe issue on nairaland, in fact, the moderators should delete any topic on Tithe, it is a bad thing for this forum to fight against what the whole churches in Nigeria stood for, i mean paying of tithe, i understand that some churches may not preach about tithe, one thing is sure, they will NEVER stop anybody from paying tithe to them. They will accept it, directly or indirectly.

The question is why are people so desperate to stop tithing from all churches, this is an exercise in futility, a waste of time, an insult to Nigerian churches, and it is like they are playing on our inteligence.

You can deceive one person at a time, but it is difficult to deceive everybody at the same time. If you think that you are smart and you know Bible, i think as a wise person, you should know that other people are smart, wise, intelligent and have a great knowledge about the Bible.

This is the scenario, i believe a smart person that comes to this forum with his theology will take a great disposition and humble himself to listen to opposing view, but this is not the case on nairalan, they will insult you, call you names and make you to hate the forum.

The owner of the forum may think this argument is favourable to him, but he has forgotten that what goes round comes around, it is counterproductive, very soon people will not like to visit this forum again.

Anti-tithers on nairaland have been adopting different strategies to achieve their aims.

1. They used different ID's

2. They twist the scripture.

3. When they lost the arguement, they will result to insult.

4. They are very cunny.


A word is enough for the wise.

God bless all my brethren on this forum.

God2man.

Man says, "Respect your elders."
God says, "Them that sin, rebuke before all."

I don't care if the elder is sixty or six hundred, if he is teaching the false doctrine that God requires 10% of my money or I will be cursed, I will rebuke him and expose him for the liar that he is.

For the most part, I would agree that the monetary tithe requirement teachers do not teach that doctrine of devils out of pure ignorance. Many teach it because of greed. Many teach it because of tradition. Many teach it because of fear... fear of what their congregations will say or do should they ever find out that God doesn't require it.

Still, I think there may be a select few that teach it out of ignorance. I believe that satan has blinded their eyes and their hearts, lest they should see the truth as it is written in God's Holy Word and they begin teaching God's ways instead of the way of the flesh.

Tochiokoye: Religion Versus Common Sense By Theresa Omoronyia


I sometimes wonder if religion somehow affects the ability of people to reason. There are lots of papers on the internet that seem to agree that it does.  And looking at the way some religious people behave in Nigeria, it is enough confirmation that sometimes religion affects their common sense. A typical example is the case of the ChildNotBride issue. Isn’t it absolutely mind-boggling that with all the health, economic and societal problems that this practice causes, some people still staunchly defend it on the basis of religion? But Senator Yerima isn’t the only one who has used Holy Scriptures to justify wrong doing. History is full of examples of men and women who have done just that, from Islamic jihads against ‘infidels’, to the Christian Crusades against Jews and Muslims, genocides, slavery, racism, etc. While many of us will condemn what our ancestors and even religion did many years ago, somehow we unconsciously repeat similar acts today.

I remember the first time I earned a decent wage. Out of appreciation for God’s goodness and as my religious duty, I took out my tithe first. As some of you know, a tithe is one-tenth of your net income and is actively encouraged in many churches. So I took out that amount first and then began to organize my budget for that month. After sorting out my bills, I was left with very little money for my family. As the eldest child in my family, it was my responsibility at that time, to take care of my younger ones especially since my single parent mom could not handle everything herself.  The money left for them was far less than my tithe. I was confused on what to do. Should I give less than one-tenth of my money as tithe so I can help my family better, would this not be a sin? Or should I stick to the law of tithing and let my family suffer?

When my atheist roommate innocently asked what I was going to do with my first salary, and I told him, he was aghast! He berated me for even thinking of starving my family all because I wanted to fulfil a religious law. After trying very hard to make me see reason without any success, he cried out in frustration “you religious people are nuts! So you think your God will prefer you to starve your family just because He wants you to keep His law?”  That did the trick. I knew my roommate was right, I gave less tithes and increased my family’s allowances.

It may have been an atheist asking the question, but somehow I feel God sometimes asks similar questions, such as:

“Do you think by oppressing someone and denying them their rights, you are fulfilling my law?”
“Do you think that by killing ‘infidels’ with the sword and with hateful speech, you are making me happy?”
“Do you think that by ignoring your hungry neighbour and giving your tithes to an already wealthy church, you are making me happy?”
“Do you think that by keeping quiet in the face of injustice, yet attend church/mosque daily, you are making me happy”

Like me, I think many people get confused about keeping religious laws and the way they should treat people. These laws are meant to aid us in our relationships with others not destroy them. The New Testament is full of examples of occasions when Jesus broke the law to help others. He placed the welfare of people far above religious laws. He often criticized the Pharisees, the teachers of the law, who often oppressed people in the name of the Law. In fact He told them at one time that the summary of all the religious laws was to love God and to love our neighbours as ourselves. Neighbour being a term to refer to anyone and everyone.

Do you know why God values people and wants us to even ‘break’ His law for the good of others? It’s because each person, from the richest to the poorest, is God’s precious child. I’ll give you an example. Suppose a mother tells her gate man not to open the gate for her wayward only son when he comes home late at night, in order to teach him a lesson. Now this son returns on a particular night at a very late hour, and unlike before, his knocks on the gate are more frantic and he is panic-stricken. He begs the gate man saying there are armed men who are chasing him and will kill him if they catch him. What should the gate man do, obey Madam’s instruction and allow the boy to be killed, or break Madam’s law, and save the young man’s life?

You will agree with me that the Madam would want the gate man to break her law to save her only son’s life. I don’t think she will be happy to discover her son’s dead body the next day, simply because the gate man wanted to obey her law. That is the same way God wants us to behave. Yes religious laws are made to guide and teach, but they should not be used as an excuse to oppress others or ignore the needs of the less privileged. Remember if you help even the least person, by ‘breaking’ a religious law, you are helping God’s beloved child. On the Judgement Day, I don’t think God will ask you how many laws you kept but He will ask

“I was hungry, did you feed me? I was thirsty, naked, in need,…etc, did you help me?” Matthew 25:31-46

Source : http://www.naijateenz.com/post/religion-versus-common-sense-by-theresa-omoronyia

The atheist friend was right. God does not want you to neglect your family's needs, or a neighbor's needs to put more money in the coffers of an already wealthy Church.

But I will say further. God does not want the saved to place themselves under the Mosaic/Levitic Law! That's right. He does not want the saved to be bound by the Mosaic/Levitic Law.

in Acts 15, the Law is described as a yoke... a burden, that not even the Apostles were able to keep perfectly. And the Holy Ghost thought it good that no greater burden be required of the Gentile Converts than four necessary things. Tithing was not one of those "necessary things."

Still not convinced that the Christian is not to keep the Law? Paul's letter to Timothy should convince you. There, we read:

1 Timothy 1:8-10 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Paul tells Timothy that the Law is good, but he tells Timothy that it is not for the saved. Rather, it is for the unsaved. If you are saved, you are not required to follow the Mosaic/Levitic Law.

Still not convinced? In his letter to the Galatians, Paul wrote:

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

If you attempt to keep one of the laws written in the Mosaic/Levitic Law, you had better keep all the laws written in the Mosaic/Levitic Law. If you don't, according to the above verse... you are cursed.

Still not convinced? Read on...

Romans 7:1-4 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Uh-oh! In the above passage, we find that we (the saved) are married to Christ. When we go to the house of the Law, we are committing spiritual adultery. Do you really want to be seen as a spiritual adulterer in God's eyes?

You may think, "OK, so we are not to place ourselves under the Mosaic/Levitic Law. I guess that means we are free now to steal, kill, covet, etc.."

My question would be, "Why would you want to do those things? They that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (see Galatians 5:24)

Those who are Christ's will not have the desire to steal, kill, covet, etc.. They will want to do the things that are pleasing to God.

Does this mean then, that we will never sin if we are Christ's? No, Paul clearly reveals that we can sin. Paul said in his letter to the Romans:

Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

This fleshly tabernacle will sin from time to time. And if one is saved, one will feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit if, and when, that one does sin.

Friend, don't submit yourself to an Old Covenant Law that God's Word reveals is a ministration of death. (see2 Corinthians 3:7) Rather, submit yourself to God. Commit yourself to loving Christ and fellow man and you will find that if you follow those two rules you will not want to steal, kill, covet, etc..

God bless.

Candour: You're welcome bro. The pro tithe crew we discuss with don't play fair. I used to think they were honestly mistaken but I've come to realise they are actively, knowingly and intentionally promoting falsehood most likely because they are beneficiaries of the proceeds.

Imagine them using Abraham as leverage when all they preach in their churches is the horribly distorted version of Mosaic tithes. ThankGod there is a devotional from one of their pastors emphatically promoting Mal 3:8-11 pasted here. This devotional points them out as dishonest people deliberately twisting scriptures for gain.

God will keep exposing them by themselves.

Meanwhile, I love your signature. . It is an expression of what we've seen on this thread

thanks! I found the signature years ago in a book of quotes. Author anonymous. It challenged me to compare my beliefs with the Word of God, and if any contrast between the two... To change the belief to agree with the Word of God.

Candour: Has the discussion suddenly shifted from tithes to Abraham's matrimonial affairs?

Hope Mark won't allow himself be distracted from the main issues. When folks realise they've been found out, they try to deflect attention away from the issue being discussed and I see that pattern being repeated here.

I hope I'm proved wrong anyway.

Hi Candour,

You are right. We should remain on the topic of tithes and I should not have responded to Olaadegbu's derailing of the topic.

Thanks for the soft rebuke. It is received and acknowledged.

God bless.

OLAADEGBU: I'm not surprised that you didn't come back on your false assertion that Abraham married and divorced a second wife. You don't even have the courtesy to admit your fallacy but shamefully sidestepped the truth by speaking evasively.

Abraham had the unwritten law of God in his heart and obeyed it even before the Mosaic law which came 430 years after. Jacob his grandson knew that he had to do away with his idols and this was before the 1st and 2nd commandment that followed many years after.

(Genesis 35:4).

Uh... news flash, Olaadegbu.

Keturah was Abram's THIRD wife. Hagar was his second... given to him by his sister Sarah.

OLAADEGBU: The crux of the matter is that Abraham tithed and that should suffice you if you are interested in following in his step of faith.



Abraham's tithe is a step of faith as he gave God the credit for his victory in battle.



If you marry a daughter of Eve she is your natural sister unless you are not married to the Adam's race.



Was that an act of faith or fear? When the Bible says that Abraham is the father of all those who believe that means we should follow his example in acts of faith not of fear.



Abraham's second wife was Keturah. He didn't divorce he only remarried after his first wife died.



Don't be mendacious. Study his acts of faith that was commended and follow them.

scripture does not say Abraham's tithe was an act of faith. You only say it was to bolster your unscriptural tithe doctrine.

idnoble135: This is it. I hope its not too long. I am open to thoughts on this.

The scripture made it clear in Deut 18:18 that

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their
brethren, like unto thee, and
will put my words in his
mouth; and he shall speak
unto them all that I shall
command him.

And we know the verse talks of the Lord Jesus Christ. And the words of Jesus that he uttered are words from the Father which shows that Jesus uttering these words
11:42 was God's desire. The words of Jesus expressed the Father's will.
These words were uttered when the old covenant was established. But the context showed that God will speak through some one His will. This verse comes on the heels of the establishment of the old testament, yet it prophesies who will speak and establish the new testament. This is not where i want to head to...
In Hebrews twelve verse two, we are told,
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our
faith; who for the joy that
was set before him endured
the cross, despising the shame,
and is set down at the right
hand of the throne of God.
The words of Christ are the most important words of the scripture...
Now that said, i quote the passage where the master talked about tithe,
Luke “What sorrow awaits you Pharisees! For you are careful
to tithe even the tiniest
income from your herb gardens, but you ignore justice and the love of God.
You should tithe , yes, but do
not neglect the more
important things.11:42NLT
By this we understand that Christ taught the people to tithe. He did not stop it (refer to my first post on this thread).
That established, i move on.
Acts 1:1 reads,

The former treatise have I
made, O Theophilus, of all that
Jesus began both to do and
teach

This verse demonstrates an important principle in the earthly life of Christ here. And is it not interesting? That the Spirit of God put it in this order.
Here we learn that the lifestyle of Christ matched His words. Whatever He taught is an evidence of what He taught. He would not teach something that He did not live out. His teaching were a reflection of who He was.
So all the teachings of Jesus were what He himself had lived out.
...all that
Jesus began both to do and
teach
So Christ teaching tithe in Mathew and Luke was an indication that He must have done so, He must have tithed. And if He did, we must follow suit, Heb 12:2 because He is our role model.
Here are diverse translations on Acts 1:1.

New International Version In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach.
New Living Translation In my first book I told you, Theophilus, about everything Jesus began to do and teach.

English Standard Version In the first book, O Theophilus, I have dealt with all that Jesus began to do and teach,
New American Standard Bible The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach
In my first book, Theophilus, I
wrote about everything Jesus did and taught from the beginning,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English I wrote the former book, Oh Theophila, about all those things that our Lord Yeshua The Messiah began to do and to teach
GOD'S WORD® Translation In my first book, Theophilus, I wrote about what Jesus began to do and teach. This included everything from the beginning [of his life]
Douay-Rheims Bible THE former treatise I made, O Theophilus, of all things which Jesus began to do and to teach,
I composed the first discourse, O Theophilus, concerning all things which Jesus began both to do and to teach,
Young's Literal Translation The former account, indeed, I made concerning all things, O Theophilus, that Jesus began both to do and to teach, Parallel Commentaries
There is one more proof.

So your contention is that He would not teach that which He Himself would not do, eh? Using the Word of God, I can prove you to be in err in your conclusion. Notice:

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and[b] into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:[/b][s][/s]

Notice here, Jesus commanded that the Disciples were not to go into Samaria.

And yet, here we read:

John 4:4 And he must needs go through Samaria.

Imagine that! The Lord doing something that He told His Disciples they were not to do themselves.

He practiced what He preached? Not always. Some things He preached to certain people because they were FOR certain people and no one else.

Jesus told the blind man to wash his eyes in the pool of Saloam. Did He wash His eyes in the pool of Saloam as well? We have no record that He did.

Jesus told the Disciples to catch a fish with a penny in its mouth. We have no record of Jesus doing the same.

Matthew 26:36 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.

hmmm.... Jesus told the Disciples to sit, but He would not.

Jesus was not a farmer, nor was He a herder. He was a carpenter. The Law did not call for tithes from the carpentry trade. Jesus told the scribes and Pharisees that they should be tithing because they obviously were growing things in gardens... mint, rue, cummin, dill, etc..

Jesus told the scribes and Pharisees to tithe, but He Himself did not tithe. He was not required to tithe.

debosky: Whilst I agree with you in that those saying we should tithe in the example of Abraham are slightly disingenuous given the stark differences in practice between what Abram did and what many do today, I don't agree with the rest of your references.

Clearly when we follow the biblical examples, we do so inasmuch as those examples are in line with the will of God, not blind copying. Given that Abram's tithe was acceptable to God, it is a valid example that may be followed. It is obvious that Abram wasn't perfect and some of his actions clearly shouldn't be emulated. This also applies to certain acts of the apostles, e.g. Peter's hypocrisy with some Jews.

Finally, even though many deny it, their 'example' for tithing is more rooted in the law than in Abram, but even so - you do not need to copy an example in the exact same manner before you can legitimately use it as inspiration. It must be regarded as inspiration though, not as a requirement. The real substance of imitating Abram is to trust God and have faith in him. It is not necessarily in imitating his tithing.

and yet, he insists we imitate Abraham.

Joagbaje: Tithe is immemorial principle . Abraham could only have tithed because it's a lifestyle . God testified that of Abrham devotion to him . Saying he knows Abraham will teach his household after him. So it's no surprising Jacob tithed. Where did he learn it from? Abraham of course.

Scripture does not say that tithe is a immemorial principle. If it were an immemorial principle as you claim, why the change from spoils of war tithe to a crops and livestock tithe? Why no mention whatsoever of money being tithed under the Law? Why do the Scriptures say that our giving is to be what we choose to give?

You have bought into the "principle" doctrine without truly searching the Scriptures to see what they say. Instead of changing your beliefs to agree with what the Word of God says, you would rather change the Word of God to agree with what you believe.

Abraham could have only tithed because it's a lifestyle? Really? Then why no mention of those men who accompanied him on his rescue mission tithing if it is a "lifestyle" as you claim? Why no mention of Abram's brother Lot tithing? Abram's brother Lot was a "just man," yet no mention of him tithing. No mention of Isaac tithing either. No mention of Jacob tithing either... only mention of a vow that had conditions.

If tithing was a lifestyle, Jacob would not have set the conditions on his vow to give a tenth. Sorry Joagbaje, but your "lifestyle" theory sinks in the millpond when compared to what the Scripture says.

Where did God say Abraham would teach his household to tithe? Scripture please?

OLAADEGBU: If you truly trust Christ you will walk in the steps of father Abraham, the father of all those who believe.

(Galatians 3:29).

(Romans 4:11-12).

OK, Abraham didn't tithe his own day-to-day money, but the spoils of war. I'll not tithe my day-to-day money, but spoils of war. (should I ever be called to war and win)

By the way, Romans tells us to walk in the steps of that faith. It does not say to tithe because Abraham tithed.

Abraham married his natural sister, Olaadebgu. Have you imitated Abraham and married your natural sister?

Abraham took his wife to the house of Abimelech and told her not to tell the man that she was married to Abraham. Abram gave his wife to Abimelech Have you taken your wife to another man and given her to him as Abram did?

Abram married a second wife before the Law. He then divorced her, not because of the hardness of her heart, nor because of the hardness of Hagar's heart, but because of the hardness of the heart of another.

So tell us Oladegbu, have you taken a second wife and then divorced her because someone else despised her? If not, why not? After all, you say we are to imitate Abraham, do you not?

OLAADEGBU: So you think Christ came to abrogate the law so that we can be free to sin? Guess what Jesus said to burst your bubble:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfill. For verily I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:17-20)

Here our Lord Jesus Christ shows us that God requires truth even in the inward parts. He considers hatred to be murder (1 John 3:15). If we as much have anger without cause, we are in danger of judgment. If we lust in our hearts, God considers us to be adulterers. If the scribes and Pharisees where seen to be righteous according to the law we as Christians must exceed that because Jesus pushed His scrutinies into our hearts and erected a tribunal in the region of our thoughts and purified the waters at the fountain head. Our responsibilities as Christians are more than those of the Scribes and Pharisees who only pay the minimum 10% as tithes.

the only way one's righteousness can exceed that of the scribes and pharisees is for that one to trust Christ. When one does, that one is clothed in the righteousness of Christ.

Jesus was not saying we have to keep the Law. It is clear throughout the Pauline epistles that the saved are not under the Law.

Please Olaadegbu, provide us with the Scripture that tells us that tithing our money excels the righteousness of the Pharisees.

truthislight: Yes, with prayers, God can say both yes or no to ones request as he did with apostle paul request for his health issues, and it is recorded for our instruction.

But for that of tithing, God said: "test me out and see, if i will not bless you"........
So, no excuse here. Tithe works all the time!

If the tithe that Oyadegpo is collecting does not work all the time and has never worked for some people, then, it is either, God does not accept it or asked for it, or it is a violation for christian to pay tithe and that should have made him(Oyedegpo) to reconsider and know that something is wrong, but, that he still insist and dishes out a curse for those not paying tithes shows he is either not a honest person or he is a FRAUD STAR.

He is then making people poorer and lazy, people looking forward to a promised blessing that will never come to pass.

There is no place in the bible that tithe did not work, except a refusal to pay it leads to low harvest.

If he does not repent, God is watching him.

in the same chapter where God said to test Him in the tithes, He also said that He changes not.

It is an utter impossibility for God to lie. So we know that if they say The monetary tithe only works some of the time... Then the monetary tithe cannot be the tithe God was speaking of in Malachi. Yet they all run to the Malachi passage to prove God requires the tithe.

Their mental gymnastics are the product of a twisted mind and only produce a pretzel religion.

Image123: In other words, you are on the road to atheism?

i am sorry you believe that my belief that God is not a liar means I am "on the road to atheism."

Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. But if I believe God, I am eading towards atheism?

You obviously are very confused as to who God is and doubt His sincerity when He says, "I will."

Image123: Can i inform you that nothing works all the time, as it were. We are not discussing magic where you simply say "Hakakula" and the door opens irrespective of who or when it is said. Prayer does not work all the time. Giving does not work all the time. The name of Jesus does not work all the time(like the sons of Sceva showed us). And on and on. There are factors attached. Christianity is a life and relationship with God. Not some flash me prosperity quickie. i guess that's what you think it is, its why you feel so stunned and angry that it did not work that way for your mum. The Bible is complete and connected. It should not be disjointedly read or cherry picked. Like i usually tell Gosh and your other new friends, there is a cumulative understanding, not a fragmented one.

in other words, you see God as a liar. I understand.

God said, "prove me, and I will." But you and Oyedepo teach "Prove God, and HE might."

Image123: Humble pie in the sense that you kept quiet about making ridiculous claims of a pastors gospel that tithe works all the time. i've given what you need, that is a popular tithe preaching pastor, stating in every chapter of his book that tithe does not work all the time. It's not a magic thing. Knowledge is power, do not settle for ignorance when you can be exposed to knowledge. It is very convenient to read or listen to nothing, and yet make ridiculous claims about pastors. Talk is cheap, truth is not. There are many ways to get access to a book asides buying it. Plus, its a small book. By now, with all the ten percent you've been hoarding, you should be able to afford a little book.

Oyedepo's statement that "tithing does not work all of the time" should open the eyes of those who are being taught to tithe.

The fact that Oyedepo says that tithing does not always work proves that the tithing he is teaching is not the tithe of the Bible. God said in His Word that if the tithe was given, He would bless. He did not say, "I might bless." Nor did He say, "You may or may not receive blessings." No, God promised blessings. God is faithful who promised.

Obviously, the god that Oyedepo is promoting does not make the same promises the God of the Bible does.

Image123: Oh, good. So we can actually sow and reap without agric produce being involved. This is exactly what we've being trying to tell you about giving tithe of what we sowed and reaped, but you insist that it has to be agric produce since agric terms are used.
Would you see this basic, i hope so?

there is no tithe requirement of Christians today found in God's Word. God said His Holy tithe was for the children of Israel. He did not say it was for Nigeria.

Why do you insist on teaching that people can tithe in any other location than what God has written?

Image123: i didn't ask for all this story, i know them already. See my question again quoted. Do you know all those 613 laws? Is there anyone you obey? Do you disobey all 613?
three cheap questions.

what part of "I am not required to keep the Law" do you not understand?

The Law is for the unrighteous. I am not of the unrighteous.

Image123: Do you know all these so called 613 laws? Is there any one of them that ou obey or you disobey all the 613?

I am not required to keep the Law. If I teach Law to the saved, it is only in its Historical background... not as present imperative for them.

The Law is for the unrighteous. (see 1 Timothy 1:8-10 ) If one commits to any one part of the Law, that one must keep all the Law (see Galatians 3:10 ) It that one does not keep all the Law, that one is cursed..

Image123: Are you really saying that passage says NOTHING about agic produce? Sowing and reaping say NOTHING about agricultural produce? This is new man! Tell me, what is being said then?

2 Corinthians 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Paul was speaking of giving. When one gives sparingly, he will reap sparingly. When one gives bountifully, he will receive bountifully. Context shows that is exactly what Paul was speaking of.

OLAADEGBU: Where is the verse that says that we don't have to tithe our money? Do you see why you qualify as a Mountebank? I asked a specific question and you gave me the above references, where does it say that monetary tithes are forbidden? You are the one adding to God's Word here and twisting His Words thereby calling Him a liar. You are not only a liar but also accusing God as a liar. Saying and interpreting what God has not said to suit your own diabolical teaching.



If you've got the proper glasses on can you read what the topic of this thread is? Let me help you, it says: "Tithes and Offerings" but you have turned it to "Tithes" only thread. God had devised a means of financial security for His people, Israel which children of God will do well to use today if we obey His Words. He said:

"Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings" (Malachi 3: 8 ).

Charlatans like you will rather people give their offerings but not tithes when God said tithes and offerings. Others like Goshen will argue further that offerings are also prohibited but there are sufficient references that debunks such lies and half truths on this thread.

Do you now accept that offerings should be brought to the Church and that it can be brought in currency knowing that your problem is the sound of the "T" word? The fact that Charlatans have abused this system should not make believers throw the baby out with the bath water.

you are bound by the very Law you quoted above, Olaadgbu. But not only the Law of tithing (in which you offend God tremendously) but all 613 of the Levitical Laws.

Your monetary tithe requirement doctrine makes God to be a liar. His Word, under the Law you just quoted, declares His tithe was to be EATEN by, not just the one receiving the tithe, but also by the one who is tithing.

Your doctrine is a lie from the father of lies.

Open your eyes, Olaadegbu... Can't you see your embracing Law is denying what Christ accomplished on the cross? You commit spiritual adultery every time you return to the Law to justify your false doctrine.

Image123: Watch your blood pressure. The question is: Does 2Corinth 9:6,7 refer to only agricultural produce?

2 Corinthians 9:6-7 says nothing about agricultural produce. Why do you assume it does?

You guys make a great mental gymnastics team.

You all work together to reach the same goal... a total wresting of Scripture to arrive at a doctrine that justifies (in your minds) the extorting of money from gullible Church members.

You eisegete Scripture from the Law to justify the monetary tithe you teach in your pulpits and in your homes.... all the while stating that you do not teach the Law tithe.

You eisegete Scripture that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with God's Holy tithe in order to justify your robbing God (by extorting money from the people)... all the while claiming it is those whom you are extorting money from who are the actual robbers.

Your hermeneutics skills need much improvement.

Joagbaje: Animals were redeemed with money, human beings were redeemed plants were redeemed for tithes and offerings

If you insist they weren't what about unclean animals? Do you give unclean animals in tithes and offerings?

Leviticus 27:27
And if it be of an unclean beast, then he shall redeem it according to thine estimation, and shall add a fifth part of it thereto:or if it be not redeemed, then it shall be sold according to thy estimation.

The only thing that can't be redeemed is first fruit because it's dedicated. The name of God is on it already. If it's a blind animal or unclen one they replace it with a good one but the giver will kill two of them. Both the redeemed and the replaced

stay on topic, Joagbaje. The topic is the tithe.

Leviticus 27:27 is not addressing the tithe. Read the verse in its context...

Leviticus 27:26-27 Only the firstling of the beasts, which should be the LORD'S firstling, no man shall sanctify it; whether it be ox, or sheep: it is the LORD'S. And if it be of an unclean beast, then he shall redeem it according to thine estimation, and shall add a fifth part of it thereto: or if it be not redeemed, then it shall be sold according to thy estimation.


It is the firstlings of the animals that were redeemable. These were not the tithe, as can be seen by reading what the animal tithe consisted of...

Leviticus 27:32-33 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD. He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

The animal tithe consisted of the TENTH animal to pass under the counting rod. The animal tithe was separate from the firstling offering.



Verses 30-34 address the tithe.

Plants were not redeemed for tithes. Plants were tithes that could be redeemed with silver. The farmer had to tithe first in order to buy back the tithe.

The livestock tithe could not be redeemed.

Leviticus 27:32 (KJV) 32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, [even] of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:33 (KJV) 33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be Leviticus 27:32 (KJV) 32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, [even] of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:33 (KJV) 33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it SHALL NOT BE REDEEMED..

Like Olaadegbu, you also need to pay attention to what you read in the Word. Tithes are not addressed in Leviticus 27 until verse 30-34... where it starts, "And all the tithe of the land..."