₦airaland Forum

Abuzola:
I will keep saying this. You cannot explain logistic with Bible because it was the handy work of one insane man. Not my word but your fithy Bible.

2corinthian 11:1
paul said 'i wish you would bear with me in little madness. Do bear with me !'

I had often warned about coming to conclusion on wrong understanding. I understand because of your age and exurberance but other people might not find your assumptions so funny and might want to retaliate and force the thread to debate other issues. I would suggest you create a fresh thread about verses you think are contradictory in the bible and even the koran so that knowledgeable people can put you through. For this thread, I will urge you once again to try to contribute to the discussion or just leave it alone.

Please this will be my last admonision to you and I trust that this time it is for good.

Chrisbenogor:
Yes I know your position on these issues I am just stating mine. I need you to see that evolution or not I really see no reason for believing in God, evolution is not the main issue for me you said my positions were dogmatic and I am trying to break them down piece by piece to you.
[s][/s]
Perhaps the most common way is the usual way people preach saying Jesus came and died for our sins using the bible in essence to prove the bible. Sacrifices make little or no sense to me, if God has all the properties ascribed to him, he would not need someone's death to feel good or to forgive man to the extent of sending his son down ( in a mysterious conception ).The fact that something is written down is persuasive to people not used to asking questions like: 'Who wrote it, and when?' 'How did they know what to write?' 'Did they, in their time, really mean what we, in our time, understand them to be saying?' 'Were they unbiased observers, or did they have an agenda that coloured their writing?'. All these questions always end up in a deadlock, scholars saying things are not the black and white letters we see and religious people saying the scholars are biased. Personally I think the argument sways in the favour of the scholars.
Will continue in a while.

Chrisbegnor,

You have stated correctly that it is wrong to use the same book to prove itself. There must be a witness diffferent or witnesses to authenticate. How do we know that a man called Jesus Christ existed apart from bibilical accounts? Do we indeed have any other source apart from the bilble? Yes we do. My new book - "The Accurate Knowledge of the Truth" has more details. I will summarize here.

Remember that the man called Jesus Christ lived in an era of Roman occupation of Israel. The Romans were a big empire, stronger in those days than the USA is currently. They colonised almost the whole world. They had written documents, they had recorded history of there own rulers and governors sent to govern other places. Their recorded history confirmed that a man Jesus christ existed and carried out miraculous work. The documents from their archive confirmes that sometime after christ's death, the emperor Ceaser was sick and could not be cured by his doctors and his healers. He had heard the rumours of a youngman called Jesus  Christ who carried out miraculous works throughout israel. He then asked his people to ask his hs governor to summon Pilate to bring the youngman to Rome, so he can cure him. On hearing this, Pilate was alarmed, for Jesus Christ had died and resurrected and he had listened to the Jews who told him that he will be an enemy of Ceaser if he set Jesus Christ free. He sent word to Ceasar that Crist had been killed and after 3 days had resurrected and because he allowed an innocent man to be executed, Ceasr angrily summoned him to Rome. Subsequent events led to the death of Pilate. It was

So Chrisbegnor, did Jesus Christ exist? Yes he did, we are not haluccinating here. Did he die, yes he did. Did he ressurect, yes he did. There are other evidences apart from recorded Roman history supporting the existence of the Christ. The recorded history of the Hindu supports the existence of Jesus Christ. If you read the scripture, there was silence on what he did during adolescence till he was 29 yrs, before he received the Holy Spirit baptism. Well I can tell you. He went on ministry work to India, dong great work and teaching about love. Ancient Hidu script confirm this. It was while there in India that Mary sent him a message that his carnal Father, Joeseph had died. These things happened. Let me stop.

Abuzola:
Chris am not teasing. Atheist are like lower animal, brainless to realize the creationism like animals. Hehehe sowi

Young man, come to the discussion with your idea, do not resort to abuse. The guy you are abusing, you have never met him before. What if he is in a position to help you tommorrow? Humility is the bedrock of all religions. Let your humility shine. Refrain from abusive language. Love everybody and most importantly do not think highly of your knowledge. Stoop to conquer. many people have passed through this your stage. Lear, learn learn!!!

Apologies gents, my connection was bad yesterday so I knocked off unceremoniously! The concluding part be;ow. I will also read your rebutttal ASAP.



For Evolution, the manner it is described by scientist is not correct. Sure the early man must have been bigger and stronger, but the evolution was as a result of adaptation to environment- either weather, vegetation, foe or prey or even for maintaining the body. And adaptation occurs both ways. For instance, we currently adapt to certain strain of plasmodium parasite while being susceptible to others. The earlier generation died a lot from malaria. It is not that much of a killer now. Adaptation is repeatable and observable. We are not talking about the apeman gradually turning to man, no. We have not seen a dog turn to a leopard or a lizard turn to a crocodile. It doesn’t fit and if it doesn’t fit, we must discard. We cannot claim an event that you as a scientist cannot see the repeatability in nature.

Next let us look at the age of the earth. The traditional Christian understanding has some hiccups. Dating technology has shown rocks, artefacts that are clearly far older than 7000years. We cannot claim that because of the time span between Adam and now (approx. 7000years), that the world was created 7 days before. That is a shallow understanding. First off, when God made the planets (Gen 1:1), no time span was given. He was not living in time when he created the planets, so how could we possibly date it? We were not the first being that inhabited the earth. Other spirit and angels were here before us. How come Satan came to tempt man? Satan and his angels were already here before us. God’s angels were previously created, since Satan was originally an Arch angel. The war in the highest heaven had occurred, and he was cast down to the lower heavens (lower spiritual plane) and the earth. How were the Cherubins directed to protect the tree of life? They must have existed prior to man’s existence. How long they existed we are not told. The interval between creation is reffered to as Day. It is not a literal day. We know that we have been in the last days since Christ died, which is like some 2000years.

The physical is possible because of the spiritual. The spiritual is the controller, the god of the physical. Notice I used god and not GOD, as I am discussing at the level of the individual, the micro level. At the level of the Universe is the biggest controller, who had always existed, even if you refuse to believe Him. His science of creation is repeated every time; a child is born, grows to adulthood and dies. A child is born from interaction of sperm and egg, very small cells, hardly visible with the naked eye. These cells would now start to grow into a baby, forming body parts, brain etc in a 9 month period. He created a cycle of birth and death and the cycle could not have occurred by accident otherwise it would be unrepeatable. His science is way ahead of our own. It is spiritual science of the first grade. He is omnipresent, omniscience and omnipotent. He makes and unmakes.

Our spirit lives inside every one of us, every creation. Our spirit gives us our personality and lives inside us and is invisible. We may be of different races, countries and colour but our spirit is universal. It knows no borders or customs, neither does it need a flight to move from place to place. Some knowledgeable individuals sometimes exploit the spirit for good or for bad. Through some spiritual practices, it is possible to operate at the level of the spirit for a brief static period. Some use it for witchcraft, for other evils and some for good. The body dies, but the spirit does not die. The spirits are of different characteristic but are all subject to the Holy Spirit.

It looks like I can post now as the road is now clear. Let me address Chrisbenegor.

Scientist say the world started from an accident - the big bang and from there, man originally the ape man started evolving to who we are now. They also say the earth is probably tens of thousands of years old. I have a problem with the big bang and evolution theory. They are however bang on  with the age of the earth and I would explain that later. Let me quickly address the first two.

If you have seen an accident scene, you will agree with me that the end result is unplanned, often with loss and generally disorganised. The big bang theory is challenged because of this. It seems very improbable for an accident to explain the order in the universe and the relationship to our weather and currents by lunar cycles. These could hardly be traced to a bang that would produce a disorganized system. Any organized system in real life comes from proper planning. We know this for a fact as humans. As Nigerians, perhaps we suffer from it. It just that in the case of the universe, that person is called The Holy Spirit, The Almighty, God, Yahweh, I prefer to call him THE FATHER, because the created cannot name the creator. We cannot explain away everything with science. Science cannot explain for instance magic, witchcraft, cannot explain human trickery. Science is limited by our very own limitations as beings. Think about other universes that exist millions of miles from earth. Can you imagine travelling there with our present or future scientific knowledge? My friend, there is another existence that is spiritual, without our current physical limitations. The religions recognize this, but doctors or scientist do not. That explains why a patient in the hospital may have water, blood every physical thing ok, and yet will still die because the spirit is on the way out. That explains why when the patient is prayed for, the spirit returns and the doctor confirms that something that science cannot explain (a miracle) has occurred.

The world consists of the physical and the spiritual. The physical struggles with time, space but the spiritual has no such limitation. Let me stop for now.

Chrisbenegor, Noetic, davidylan etc, can we resuscitate this thread? I have been reading with interest (sure lots of other people too) but resisted the urge to comment untill lately when the thread was completely derailed. I agree with Noetic on keeping the reasoning simple rather than longish. Can we also have an active moderator? I mean someone who can delete posts from known rable rousers?

Abuzola,

I don't know why you pop up and post topics that derail the thread? You are a muslim and thats fine. What do you achieve by running down other peoples religion or God? What if in the Last day, they are correct and you are wrong?

I assume that you are still a young boy, but sometimes it is better to listen than to speak all the time especially if it is against the thread.

I hope we will see fantastic Islamic threads from you, that encourages unbelievers to become believers, but don't go about it as if you are fighting a Jihad on the web.

We=Allah? How, Why, When

it will be interesting going foward to know the ages of the posters on this thread to align that with their posts

Abuzola:
You may like to know this: Our Bible teacher is a pastor, who owns a church and have many church followers. You see , am trained by a professional pastor. So am a good bible scholar.

THis is exactly the reason why you should not dabble in Bible issues. The bible is a collection of holy books put together by men inspired by God. The Koran was a download by Mohammed from an angel. Both the Koran and bible talked about the coming of the Holy Spirit, who is God himself. I prefer to see the similarities than worry about the differences. Only God (Holy Spirit) can teach you the bible. Your pastors knowledge or a Bible school ( a la Lady T) are inaccurate. Read Isa 2: 2- 4, John 14: 25-26, John 16, 12-14. Rev 5: 3-5, John 4: 23-24. It is because of these pastors, bible schools and human interpretation that we have different faiths today. However, let God be the justifyer, not man. I have good muslim friends and good catholics, pentecostal etc. Let love reign among men, do not input sin to your other human beings , no matter their faith or religion.

LadyT:
Where is your degree in Bible study?

What university did you attend?

What bible college?

You sound very young totally dumb and full of . . .

LadyT, the people that killed Jesus in his advent were the men of God of those days. Do you think that the same thing will not happen in his second coming? It will and this one will be on a bigger scale. Ask God to reveal the scriptures to you. The bible school does not have the mandate from God. They can only teach incomplete truth.

There are two groups of people. The earthly and the heavenly. They can be found in all the religions. 2 people will be walking, one will be taken and the other left,

Christ brought the teaching of unity, oneness and love. In this era, you can be catholic, protestant or whatever without practising God's love, you cannot be saved. Christ did not bring Christianity - his followers did. Now I will give more importance to Christ's doctrines than Paul's or Peter's where I perceive a contradiction as in the case of women. Our Lord was free to both men and women, so I disagree with Paul and frankly Paul admitted that he saw through a glass darklyand hence he is not sacrosant.

A moslem is really not competent to judge the Bible, and a Christian is not competent to Judge the Koran. I have reviewed the debates and it really is bringing up fury, not reasoned discussion ( can religion ever bring reasoned discussions?). Mr. Auzola can post threads that inform his numerous muslims and address the issues we face in Nigeria from Religion.ie disturbances and murder of innocents in unnecessary bloodbath. Am sure we can all agree that we have had enough of the disturbances in Nigeria

I think Seun should ban postings comparing two major religions - Christianity and Islam. The posts do not enlighten as the posters are in their different trenches. My advise is for all the religions to see commonality within themselves and love their neighbour as themselves. God knows why he allowed all the different faiths and certainly only one is right. He knows, let him be the judge!

L & G,


We are located in Portharcourt and have taken delivery of this summers's children collection for ages 2-15years. Please call Chichi on 08065957188. Here are some examples of what we have. Hurry stock is flying fast!

My 2 cents here.

Our so called annointings are mostly invocation of elementary spirits which came make spiritually unstable people to fall. Sometimes the fall is from physics. if you close your eyes and somebody delivers a sharp push at the temple, you can as well fall. You are lucky that you have a higher calling and spirit than your pastors. Thank God. When a preacher says Jesus, Jesus, or in the name of Jesus, is he calling Our Lord Jesus Christ? I doubt it. There are many Jesus but only one Our Lord Jesus Christ. The more you look the less you see. Remember: "many will say Lord I did this in your name, " These were all prophesised read 2nd Tim 4: 2 to 4.

I urge you guys to stop this debate about Islam and christianity as it always amounts to anger, insults and frustration. Focus on what you all have in common. The two faith believe in God. They also talk about the coming of the Holy Spirit. Let God decide which is right at the end. However, Let brotherly love abound! love your neighbour like yourselve and you cannot go wrong!

Tayo-UK:
How can any average Nigerian living in Nigeria be a vegetarian? In a country where we struggle to eat 3 square-meal a day.

But for Nigerians living in the western world where you have choices of eating everything else apart from meat, why not?

I just can't imagine someone eating any of our local foods with no meat How would someone enjoy efo-riro with no dry fish or crayfish?

I once met an Aussie girl that never tasted meat at 33yrs of age because her parents also are vegetarian. I can't imagine any of our own parents not eating meat and anyone that decided not to eat meat is by choice or just trying to adjust to the western culture.

These are my opinions tho.

Tayo, I am convinced that you can practice vegan anywhere. To be honest it is a myth that food is cheaper in the Western world than in Nigeria. A myth , not reality. Lets check. forget the so called Niger fastfood outlets. Focus on Bukas. Yes, bukas! Most Nijas feed from Bukas from Oga to small man! I tell you dollar for dollar, quality for quality, Nijas feed better than their bros and sis in other parts of the world. Where they lack are the food compliments ike milk etc. But that is because the average Niger family is lazy. Soya bean products are abundant but rarely used. Wheat and corn are similarly available but again rarely used. In the midst of plenty. Nijas suffer. Pity!

la!:
where on earth do these clowns come from?!!, nairaland is full of halfwits.

Naira;and should not be turned into a forum for subtle jibes. Ask if you do not know but keep it civil. It is cowardly and childish to hide behind the computer to say things you will not say out in the open.

otokx:
Vegetarianism will be expensive in Nigeria

I respectfully disagree. Vegetarianism is cheaper than flesh eating by far and I should know!

oyinda.:
lmao. u berra spare some of that fried chicken ur tearing at right now and send it to me
crocodile tears


u shouldn't use a celebrity as madonna as reference point of what the typical vegeterian is like. most vegeterians i kno are very health conscious and it shows on their skin, physique.
yea I don't buy completely into that perfume scented poop (puke) theory either
vegans i believe, prolly live longer, don't know what the stats are out there but i can check to see.

Maradonna looks very fit for her age. I do not know her well so I cannot comment. However realise that if you kill an animal, a human being dies somewhere.

dominique:
there's stockfish in a vegan's diet when did fish become a veggie

really. . . thats odd.

There is a vegan equivalent of stockfish called "vegan cord". Try it with noodles, fresh tomatoes and onions and you will not touch meat. It is also used as for soups and stews. When you practise vegan, it is more than just eating. It is a show of love and respect to other created beings or animals. It carries some "burden" of higher spiritualty or consciousnes. Your dream changes: you stop being chased by evil, witches and wizards. Your body becomes a fit place for the Holy Spirit to dwell. On a physical level your health situation improves dramatically. You are younger and fresher. Ageing is slowed. A 50+year vegan will look 30+year, to give you a prspective.

The toilet thing is true. If you keep fish or meat outside for a few days, the get rotten and infested with maggots. They give out nasty odour. Go figure. That happens in your alimentary canal with meat and fish. Your sh*t as a non-vegan is filled with odour. For a practising vegan it is odourless. When a veagn dies, his body can stay longer without decomposing!

Vegean diet need not be boring. It is actually quite tasty but you need to use the right stuff to spice it up. There is vegan stockfish, sandwhich, sausage, etc. When you are vegan, it shows on your face as you tend to look fresher and younger plus healthier. Your sh*t will be odourless!

Tudór:
BTW what prophecies did jesus make apart from the likes of ''nation will rise against nation''. If i were a lunatic and wanted to predict the end of the world,the safe bet will be men turning on one another. . . .so your jesus wasn't extraordinary he just used common sense.

That aside,lets for the sake of it assume pilate did indeed send for jesus when he was ill. . .did jesus heal him? Calling for jesus certainly signifies faith in his miracles.
Also note that a sick man scared of losing his life will beg for your attention if he hears you brag about healing powers.

Read the bible to see his prophecies especially on Jerusalem and the "end of the world". The fact that Cesar sent for him confirms the bibilical Jesus. Thats the point you doubted the story, so I gave you another source to explore other than the bible.

Tudór:
Why doesn't the O.T apply? Isnt it the WORD OF GOD?
Remember the word of god is 'power' and 'knowledge' and would never return unfulfilled.

Tudo, cool temper! If I start telling a story, would you draw the conclusion from the begining or after the story is told? Again you need the Holy Spirit to fully nderstand scripture. Its not a Haley Chase novel, No! Let me make a sketch for you. God created man who was later tempted to sin. That sin separated God (sinless being) from man. But he still loved man and then related to man through angels. At the appointed time he sent his Son to atone for the sins through the shedding of an innocent blood. His son became Man for that sacrifice of sin. He gave us the message of Love. Love for one another. In the old testament it was an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Those could not have emanated from God. God is love and in this era, te Holy spirit has come to enunciate love further. Jeususcalled the people of the old testament thieves and robbers.

bindex:
The new testament and the entire Jesus story flat out showed me that it's all just a bunch of make believe fairy tale stuff built upon some existing ideas that the writers of the NT wanted to change.

Noah,Jacob, Issac, Jerimiah, Ezekiel, Elijah and Moses did not need Jesus at all to get to the OT God, but everyone who wants to get to God(NT) now must go through Christ. It's ALL a bunch of B.S. that can't be proven and never will be so therefore,the entire tale is just a happy lucky make believe tale.

The Jesus story could not have been fake. After he died, all his prophecies on Israel came to pass with exacting accuracy. In this era, his prophecies are very accurate. When Ceaser fell sick, he asked Pilate to send him the young man Jesus to heal him. So the story of Jesus was recorded in Roman history.

Tudór:
Err malbron christians don't just 'talk' about generational sins its WRITTEN in the bible. . .

you have to be careful about the old testament. Do not quote everything from it as if they all apply. Christianity has moved on. We are in the era of the Spirit.

Horus:
Yes, and this is why Christians are so confused. In the bible they use the words came down, see it here  http://bible.cc/genesis/11-5.htm   

If this "god" need to COME DOWN to see it is a proof that he is not omnipresent ant not omniscience so this god dont even have the gift of foresight.

If you read the bible like a story book you come up with these kind of questions. unless the holy spirit teaches you you cannot know the bible not to talk of knowing God. God does his business not to impress you but in achieving his will. Humans are just part of his creation. There are other creations even before humans. I am not sure the debate will lead anywhere, but let me remind you of this quote: "the fool says in his heart, that there is no God"

When christians talk about generational curses it shows they do not have the word of God. The word of God tells us that Jesus died for our sins, so why would a christian believe in generational curse? Just baptize, put on christ by practicing his teachings and see if you will not be imbdued with the Holy spirit. With the holy spirit, you are indestructible as od is always with you and there is no more curse!

Kuruduma is adjacent to Asokoro. Amac is already opening up the roads in Kuruduma. Call me on 08069626320.

Poster,

It is difficult to understand the deity of the Son of God and the Son of God. I do not blame Mohammed for calling him a prophet because Mohammed like other prophet did not understand the Godhead properly. Moses, Mohammed and other prophets were taught by angels not God almighty, In that respect their knowledge can never be accurate.

It is not an easy business to understand the abracadabra of God. In this era, the last days the only person that can teach us us the Holy Spirit. That Spirit is also God. Jesus talked about his coming and Mohammed also informed his followers that the Holy Spirit would come. The Godhead consist of God the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit. Now most religions do not even pray to God directly but to lower angels of God. So they don't even know the son not to talk about knowin the Father

I was impressed with the eagles against france. They simply outclassed france, with strong mid and defense. If we play like that against Tunisia we will carry the day

Travel advisory to the US: Beware of their niteclubs you could get shot. Similarly dating 2 females could get you killed and there is nothing the rule of law will do for you. Beware of the schools too, several mad students have been known to go on shooting orgy, killing fellow students and teachers,
I could go on and on.

Travel Advisory to Dubai: Beware of Homos and sex depraved / rampaging women in black moslem attire. Beware of prostitutes from all nations and know that the citizen is first clas and you are 2nd class before the law!

I feel safer in Abuja, or Lagos than Houston or New York and you can add some parts of London to that.