₦airaland Forum

Noetic,

Freewill is what you can define on the earth plain or on the level of our physical existence. But there is a level other than the physical where all things have already been determined. That level is the spiritual level. Christ or God spoke as a man (physical level) but also spoke as God (spiritual level). Thus all things in the physical mirror what had happened in the spiritual. Otherwise, God is not God!

David,

Any talk about reincarnation will derail this thread, so open a new thread and I'll chip in or see other threads that dealt with the topic. What I see is that with an open mind, all can come to the accurate knowledge of the truth and if we know the truth, it sets us free.

Noetic,

The garden of Eden experience could convince a novice that it was just a free will show. Such a person may understand it carnally as an expression of free will, but there is more to it, if you will receive it. All that happened there was the will of God for Adam. If Adam had not sinned, how will he have carried out the injunction from God to multiply and fill the earth in his ignorant state? That is why a bad situation to you is actually not bad to God, because it is meant to achieve a certain predestined action which you may not be privy to. Your not being aware of it does not make it bad! It is an insult to the omniscience , omnipresent and omnipotent being to imagine that any event in the universe happens without his approval!

If Christ is not already here then it means the bible is false. He said, this generation shall not pas away b4 he is come. A generation is 2000 years. We are now 10 years past the end of the generation. Surely Christ has come already! The problem is that he will not come as Jesus Christ and even you, a so called believer may reject him and his new message!

OP,

To understand these things you need to be aware of the ff;

There is the spiritual and the physical.

The spiritual controls the physical

Everybody in this world is playing a pre-determined role in the physical world, but that predetermination is done at another level- the spiritual. Therefore in his own physical or earthly level, he has free will, but in another level he has been programmmed by GOd to certain limits. Once we grab the basics,the rest is easy. That is why christians who fail to understand concepts like re-incarnation are still drinking milk and will remain children.

menek:
We need strickers.if u check our matches in angola 2010 ball possesion has always bin 50% and above.we play well than ghana bt lose to them cos we fail 2 score. Our present strickers always want 2 bite d defenders, griddle d goalkeeper and walk freely into d net wit d ball, which is imposible. We need skilful strickers than can score from d 18 yard box.

Which is why I wonder why that punk Amodu does not practice shooting with his boys after training. Lagerback needs to urgently corret that . Our players need o be able to place the ball from 25 yds.It could make the difference for our ambition to get to semifinal.

On the same topic, am disappointed that for 3 years, our Mikel has only scored one goal in the EPL. His shooting is and has always been poor and yet he has not taken the time to address it? Piss poor

As GJ consolidates his hold on power all sorts of characters will make their voice heard. We have heard from the so called Goverors forum and now this Arewa Youth bla, bla bla, It looks like we have a short memory in this country otherwise I fail to see why the North will even want the Presidency: Last ime I checked All former military heads of government were from the North except OBJ. What is with this obsession with power at the top? It looks like we need a panel of inquiry to unravel that. What good has Northern domination of Power done for Nigeria? GJ did not come to power in his own account, Circumstances and Providence made him Ag P. The same divine providence will see him through.

The only person that can stop GJ from retaining power is GJ. He has all the tools at his disposal. However, he needs to work at lightening speed to convince Nigerians that he deserves more time.

na2day?:
at least there is one thing i have gather so far, u just wanna argue

Why, Joe? Is God not Love? Does he not like righteous people?

He that is not against us is for us. Believing in Him is not just saying so or preaching it, but he nows you if you practice his injuctions.

Joagbaje:
You cant be saved by works of righteousness but by faith in Christ. There is no salvation in any religion.

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Jo,

the saving was for all humanity; moslems, hindu, xtians!

na2day?:
do u know the commandments of God? Jesus himself said, i am the way the truth and the light, no man (including the self righteous) comes to the father but by me. implication, if u dont accept Jesus as your Lord and personal savior and handing him over the affairs of your life, nothing for u QED!

God is Love, Jesus is also Love. You cannot believe in him if you do not practise love. so one who practices love is already at one with God and Jesus

e36991:
@Marlbron

Are you familiar with these phrases of progression (i.e. from near - hand - within)

"Repent of your sins and turn to God, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near . . ."

and then seven chapters later in Matthew

"And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand . .  "

and here is a scripture to mull over

e36991.

Am really amazed at your understanding. You are absolutely spot on. Christ came to inform the world about the coming of the kingdom. He went further to warn that the kingdom will come without your knowing- so no drama of somebody dropping from the sky and others flying up to the sky to meet him. Let me direct you to this scripture,


Luke 17: 22

22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. 23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. 24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 but the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33  Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

The confusion in christiandom is the part where he says "taken and left".People assume that to be taken means flying to the sky, whereas it means admission into the kingdom and of course comcomitant destruction of the evil or unworthy people. It is clear that the son of man will be already on earth doing his work, but will be ignored or derided by people untill the time he reveals himself to the whole world. The most part of the revelation of john brings it out so well. The Noah example shows that mainstream religion is ofcourse. Noah was not mainstream but God found him worthy. people laughed at him when he talked about the impending doom for more than 120 years!

na2day?:
the bible says all our righteousness are filthy rags Isaiah 64:6 meaning no matter what we do, we cant save ourselves and make heaven since by default we are sinful. for us to make heaven there must be the shedding of blood Hebrews 9:22 meaning there must be a sacrifice that will stand between God and us and for us that perfect sacrifice given by God in the person of his only begotten son, Jesus Christ. a perfect example to my explanation is this, Cain and Abel both sacrificed to God but God honored Abel's because it was the right sacrifice needed to stand between God and man after sin.

You still have not landed.

Are you confirming the known fact that Christ shed his blood for all humanity? We know that. but after he shed his blood he got men to God.

John 14:21

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 13:34-35

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

toba:
U can answer your self.Who owns d kingdom of God? If u fail to honour d owner of a house would he allow u to enter his house?

toba,

It appears you did not read me well. I said Mandela is not a Christian. Does that mean he does not honour or believe in a creator?

1 John 3:7

"little children, let no man deceive you; he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous"

@Marlbron

The Kingdom of God is already here

Think of it this way, it is similar to having American soil in Naija (i.e. by virtue of an embassy)

An American citizen in an American embassy is on American soil

and no longer subjected to the host country's law inasmuchas such individual remains within the confines of the embassy

However an observation.

Without accepting Christ, is it possible to practise righteousness, love and to avoid sin should have been the question

Anyway I tell you this truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again


e3,

you make very powerful point ie the kingdom of God is already with man. may I ask you to open another thread with that topic? I'd gladly contribute.

The requirement to be born again was on the assumption that you have not been practising the basic injuctions of love, truthfulness etc. but there are people on earth now, that are already practicng all of these and they are not christians. Chist's death on the cross was I believe for all mankind - moslems, christians, Hindus etc. His death has resulted in the rapid progress of mankind these 2000years.  Recollect that Abraham became a friend of God without being born again, he carried out an act of faith by obeying the instruction to sacrifice Isaac. Now Abraham, David, Jacob, Moses, Elijah were from bibilical accounts murderers, fornicators etc - however,  we Christians regard them as numero uno in the kingdom.

toba:
Yes&no. I dnt understand how a pagan/atheist would believe anythng about God

1 John 2:29

If ye know that he is righteous ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Let me give you a real life example. Mandela is not a Christian. Does or has he not enjoy(ed) the goodwill of the Almighty? he is the most reverred man living on earth. How many religious leaders are better than him? Do you think he will not enter the knigdom of God?

toba:
Yes&no. I dnt understand how a pagan/atheist would believe anythng about God

1 John 2:29

If ye know that he is righteous ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Let me give you a real life example. Mandela is not a Christian. Does or has he not enjoy(ed) the goodwill of the Almighty? he is the most reverred man living on earth. How many religious leaders are better than him? Do you think he will not enter the knigdom of God?

Wenger will really need to be at his best to win this. Both sides play a good attacking style with Barca with the better players overall. This is like they say a dream match for the purist. For Barca, they will look to unleash Messi, Alves and Xavi on Arsenal. With Gallas still out due to injury, the Gunners will have their hands full. Strategy for the Gunners is to Mark out Messi and Alves as those two are central to barca stellar performance. But how do you mark out the world's best player for 90mins? Perhaps a right sided FB can play in the left FB position as Messi finds it easier to dribble left sided FBs. Just a thought. Any bright ideas out there?

toba,

Does your earthly faith or religion matter?

Christ preached about a coming kingdom, but he asked his disciples to practise righteousness, love and to avoid sin. Now if a muslim or a hindu does these or if an aetheist,or any other [b]unbeliever[/b] practices these things, can we rightly assume that they will not make the knigdomof God? Let me know your opinions with researched reasons, no insults or pettiness.

OP,

Jesus had existed as part of the Godhead before the world was created. He assisted his Father God in creating the world. Note:'he was in the world and the world was made by him and the world knew him not". He is a God, or he is God, but he is not the Almighty God. Jesus himself made clear in several passages in the Bible that his Father was supreme. SO in a way, you are correct,Jesus is NOT Almighty God the Father, but he is God the Son. In other words he too is a creation of God the Father,though much before the world was created.

Ther is a confusion among Christians about the "God' in the old testament. The God in the old testament could not have been the Almighty God. The old testament fathers related with an angel called Jehova. He instituted things like an eye for an eye, and he killed very easily.

OP,

Where exactly was rapture mentioned in the Bible or is that your imagination? I remember Christ saying that the meek shall inherit the earth and that as in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of the Son of man. The Lords prayer and Christ's preaching also talks about the coming of the kingdom of God. Will that Kingdom be suspended in the sky or in outer space. What drug are u on?

Noetic,

read Isaiah 63; 1-5, maybe it will help you contextualize your vision. One thing for sure is that Africa (descendants of Esau or Edomites) have a big role to play at the end of time. That explains why many men of God see the importance of Nigeria, beyond what we are seeing now. You are on the right track and you are not the only one with such revelations.

ÓP,

A bit disappointed that you didn't provide a link to analyse pastor Chris's message. It is possible that you misunderstood him, so please di not rush to judgement. People should not crucify him, he is not different to other men of God: Adeboye et al. He teaches according to his understanding.

Whilst I believe that only God was meant to teach the scripture, I agree with pastor Chris that when you have the Holy Ghost, you are super hman. Read mark 16; 18

Chrisbenogor:
Numbers 31:17-18

17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Numbers 31:17-18.

By the way, the "boys" in verse 17 are children. Here god doesn't just ignore the murder of children; he orders it.

Can someone tell us the the difference between God and the crazy men that killed the women and children?

Chris, thanks for this, but there are many things you need to know about the old testament. After Adam sinned, God Almighty stopped relating directly with man. He related with man through angels. All of the old testament God, like Jehova etc are all angels. It was an angel that gave Moses the ten commandments and the Mosaic Laws viz "an eye for an eye, etc". These things had to happen because the one that needed to reconcile man to the Almighty had not come. When he came, he did the reconciliation by shedding his blood, a pure blood, for all of mankind. For Christians, Muslims, Hindus Atheist etc,all humans have now been saved through that blood.

Sir,

please give the landed price (lagos) for these cars:

- 2008 Honda cRV us spec
-2008 Toyota Sienna full options us spec

Joagbaje:
You should try click "insert quote" on the reply page so as to paste the previous post of others , instead of the labour ot retyping them.

Heaven is a plane higher than earth, There are materials in heaven, Heaven is not imagination,illusion or dream, it is a real material place, the book of revelation attest to that fact. so it is not a hard thing to have phisical body. We dont seem to see the spiritual things on this plane because of the limitations of our senses. The fact that we dont see angels on this plane of life does not mean they dont exist. The spiritual realm is more real than this realm of life.

Are those materials visible to your earthly eyes? Suppose they are not, in which case, you are right to say it is a higher plane. Agree it is not an illussion, nor imagination. But if it is a spiritual abode, then its residents must have spiritual bodies, simple.

Who told you that you cannot see angels? Who talked with Mary and Zacharia? Who left Abraham to destroy a neighbouring city Sodom? Who appeared unto the Galileans that were gazing on the sky? In the heaven angels are spiritual beings, on earth, they can take human bodies. That is why Hebrews 13;2. specified the need to entertain strangers.

The last two prophets were John and Jesus Christ and they are the two witnesses. Any other ones will be impostors. Note that John's revelation sometimes rewinds back and goes forward. This section of the two witnesses was a rewind to the times of John and Jesus woven in spiritspeak, only for the spirited ones to decipher.

The only thing Christ asked us to look foward to was the coming of the comforter who is the Holy spirit. Note that the event on the day of pentecost was the disciples receiving a gift of the holy ghost and should not be confused as the coming of the Holy Spirit, who is a person as Christ was a person. And who infact is the Father, God.

Please see the ff passages:
Mathew : 21:33-40
John 4:24
Genesis: 1:2 , and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters

Rev: 11:15. Note reign for ever and ever in the world, see also our lord's prayer

Yes destiy exist. Every man has his own. If you believe that God created you, would it not seem reasonable that your comng to the earth plane was to serve out a purpose? At the level of our existence on earth it looks like destiny does not exist, but it does. It cotrols everything. At a higher level, far beyod your imagination,your case has long been treated.

Think about Christ. After Adam sinned, it was already decided that he would come more than 4000years b4 he came!

It is a loaded question but can you bear the answer?

Let me assume that you can.

God has created the universe with a firm set of laws. What you do must come back to you, either in your present world or in your next incaration. Call it karma or aything,it is God's law. That explains it really. You are born to the world, with a spirit and events that affect you have all been preprogrammed to happen, from a higher realm. On your earthly realm you can try your will power but if it was not planned for you at the higher realm, it will not work.

Daniel 7:25
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

The church will be in THE THIRD heaven with christ while israel goes through the tribulation. At the end of the 7 years, the blindness upon Isarel will go and they will acknowledge Christ as messiah and call upon him. Christ then will come to the earth with us to fight for israel and deliver them.This marks the beginning of the millenial reign of christ and saints on earth.

Our heaven is not cloud. There are three heavens the bible acknowledged :
First heaven is The clouds or atmophere,
Second heaven is The space and galaxy
Third heaven is where God is

ATMOSPHERIC HEAVEN

Genesis 1:20
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
PLANETARY HEAVEN

Matthew 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Psalm 8:3
When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
GOD'S HEAVEN

Psalm 115:16
The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

2 Cor. 12:2
, such an one caught up to the third heaven.
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Where does it say that you will live in heaven for 7 years? When Paul was caught up to the 3rd heaven, did he physically go to the 3rd heaven? You only live in heave if you translate the earth, not with your physical body. The heaven is a spiritual plane with stages o doubt.

How ignorant can "christians" be? All this rapture talk? Can't there be a perspective?

Why would you fly to the sky to meet with Christ? The same Christ that assures you that the righteous will inherit the earth and that the kingdom of God will be established on earth? How many Christs will be in the sky, since the sky in the states is different from the sky in Lodon,or Lagos, really dumb.

The ignorance leads people to asume that because Jesus went up into the sky, he continued with his body to heaven! The bible says a cloud received him out of sight, Does that not tell you something? How high had he climebed before this cloud received him? Could his body not have dissolved for him to move as a spirit. Which is more convinient? Spirit in a body or spirit? Ditto for Elijah and Enoch. Is it too much to imagine? Is there any planet out there called heaven? Is heaven not a spiritual existence? Why is it too difficult to get?

Looking for a shop/warehouse for electroics ad electrical sales urgent, very urgent. Our client can consider most Lagos locations.

Why, the two men are

1) Our Lord Jesus Christ

2) John the Baptist

Good, but where does it insinuate that we will be in the clouds or in heaven for 7 years,I am assuming you are interpreting the 1 week as 7 years? This just confirmed what Christ told them will happen, which mostly were fulfilled about 40 years after his death and ascension.The Revelation detailed clearly the end time events, For better understanding you combine Ezekiel, Daniel and Revelation.