₦airaland Forum

TenQ:
You were the one claiming figurative children of Israel. I now asked you just two simple questions and you can't speak the truth about what you've been taught as the answer!
1. About the 144,000 persons: are they literal people or figurative?
2. About the 144,000 persons: is the figure (144,000) literal or figurative?

Hold onto what you're being taught there's no need arguing aimlessly!

Broveens42:
We are still saying the same thing...even people who didn't believe In god according to your good book were used by god to warn/punish/kill for his purpose...
So both those who believe in God and those who don't, can demonstrate wisdom..
Is English language too difficult to understand?
So

WISDOM in this case is what will be the result of whatever action taken by the person in question.
Today after over 3,500 years that God ordered the Israelites to occupy Canaan, the role model in person of Jesus Christ told all faithful people not to fight for any geographical location anymore because worshipers of God now are to worship anywhere they gather in his name {Matthew 18:20} not necessarily in Canaan or Jerusalem! John 4:20-24
Due to this new order God's people today are the most peaceful group throughout the earth as they will not even raise weapons against their neighbours for any reason whatsoever since worship is no longer about a geographical location.
So If anyone is fighting today it makes no practical sense!

TenQ:
I asked another simple direct question!
About the 144,000 persons: are they literal people or figurative?
About the 144,000 persons: is the figure (144,000) literal or figurative?
When you answer these two questions truthfully, I will ask you the third question!

You're not serious!
So it's you this guy again with your arguments that's always aimless shey?
What exactly do you want to know from these questions since you can see that the literal tribes of Israel aren't the same mentioned in the Bible book of Revelation 7:4-8?
Ọmọ if you have something tangible to say better go ahead and say it i'm not interested in this your stupid questioning that's of no sense!

Broveens42:
We are still saying the same thing..
1. since you agree man kills because he's being backed by whom He doesn't know/believe in, he can still demonstrate wisdom
2. If you also agree man kills because he's being backed by whom he believes in, He can also demonstrate wisdom..
That's why I emphasis over and over to go back to your native language...

The court do order the execution of condemned criminals because we have all agreed with the laws the criminal go against.

The same is what the Israelites did back then by killing anyone who wants to stop the God that's Almighty from fulfilling His purpose.

If you as a father heard that there is an impending danger would you keep your family in the place where such danger is encroaching?

The whole world has heard of the most powerful God who destroyed the greatest army and their King in the sea, so logically any nation waiting to fight God's people are ready to die!

This people you're talking about now what is the proof they're having the backing of the same God nah?

cornelboy:
And your Alfas and Imams haven't been messing with your brains
God has the power to know the events that will happen in the future.
It doesn't necessarily mean he made them happen.
So what did you Allah say about the kingdom in your holy book?
Abi your all-wise Allah forgot to mention it in the Koran ni?

Please let him be, i've discovered that he's just not ready for the truth all he's looking for is anyone who will support the religion his parents handed over to him. So forget about him!

efficiencie:
But the thief was not baptised. It was armed robbery that took him to the cross. If baptism was necessary and the theives were baptised they won't be on the cross for armed robbery unless you want to say that after baptism na to begin rob immediately. The thief was not baptised but he was granted entry into paradise. If baptism by immersion was that important so many Christians today would be Christians indeed...but we all see how folks who claim to be baptised are still perpetrating horrible acts of the flesh. Like one of my teachers used to say, if you go into the baptismal pool as a sinner you will come out as a wet sinner. The water does nothing. Who would you follow? John the Baptist or Jesus Christ? John baptises with water unto repentance but Jesus will baptise you with the HolyGhost and with Fire. If you like get soaked in water 1000 times if you are not baptised in the HolyGhost you will weigh as much as a tipper of sand when the trumpet sounds.

You don't know what Christianity truly means that's why you're talking from the viewpoint of a churchgoer.
Do you know the teachings of Christ Jesus?
Well if you know i'm sure you will never like to be a Christian talkless asking for baptism.
It's after you've accepted Jesus' teachings that you go back into your inner room, pray to God secretly and dedicate your life to Him before you can ask for baptism not just getting into the midst of churchgoers and thinking of getting soaked in a pool.

Do you know that Kumuyi, Adeboye, Oyedepo and many other Nigerians claiming men of God aren't Christians at all?

Broveens42:
Hahahaha.. my response shock you abi ?
That's why I said you should go back to your native language..it could be a language thing..
All this while I haven't asked for evidence, now you are asking me of evidence where god executed people in your good book
Shows you've lost the argument

It's logical!
The God who sent Israelites out has given all the surrounding nations an evidence that the most powerful spirit being is backing them by conquering the most powerful nation without a military force. So what evidence does those killing people today have? That's what i'm asking you if you know what logic means!

Broveens42:
YES I know.. this life is not all about choosing to believe part of what you have in your good book nor believing everything you were taught.
So what happened was that, it was recorded that god created man in his image and LIKENESS, so it is only natural man would act in his likeness. He executed men alike including children, required men in his likeness to conquer others, so if actually you believe god's image left man after his fall but only to be redeemed by the death again of his son and the deaths of ananias and Sapphira whose only crime were just lies... then that image of killings never left.. and would still continue since a new sect believe they can be forgiven of murder once they ask god(the image maker) for forgiveness....

I thought you atheists always talk about "logic"
Why do you think some people are sentenced to death?
Is it not through the order from a COURT having the SUPREME authority to declare such ones unfit to live among others?
So if any sect emerges today claiming they're doing the same thing logical questions to ask are:
What is the evidence that the SUPREME BEING ordered them? Remember the God of Israel led the Israelites out of Egypt without a military force so what credential did He gave them like God gave the Israelites?
To what extent are they supposed to conquer?
The God of Israel gave them a geographical location specifically they're supposed to take and not more than that.
Moreover the God of Israel is not asking them to force any religion on people.
Those who surrendered to the Israelites were left untouched.
So think about logic this time if you want to be intelligent.
You haven't answered my own question!

efficiencie:
Adult baptism, if by this you mean baptism by immersion, will not take you to heaven. The thief on the side of Christ did not do water baptism but Jesus promised him paradise. When Jesus said you have to believe and be baptised to be saved (Mark 16:16) He wasn't referring to water baptism necessarily.

It is very very necessary (if you're opportuned) you must get baptized as in water immersion in the presence of multiple witnesses who will attest to it that you've dedicated your life to God through Christ's teachings and symbolized it by water immersion (baptism) Matthew 28:19

All must take in the accurate knowledge of God first. Both thieves executed beside Jesus knew him very well that's why they attested to the fact that Jesus is a miracle worker but only one of them is prepared to obey Jesus as King!

TenQ:
1. Are there some "tribeless" children of Israel?
2. Which specific tribe of Israel do you come from?

The book of Revelation is not talking about literal tribes but faithful people from all nations figuratively replacing faithless Israelites, John the baptist told the Jews that God can raise up children for Abraham from stones if the natural Jews aren't responding to the privilege given them {Matthew 3:9} Jesus also emphasized on the same point when he used a parable of the wedding feast where people from different races are invited to participate since natural Jews turned down the invitation! Matthew 22:1-14

I am not from any of those figurative tribes rather i'm one of the other sheep {John 10:16} who have come from nations, peoples, tribes and tongues! Revelations 7:9-10

Of course adult baptism is necessary if we are opportuned to get it but Oyedepo is not even a Christian in the first place that is where you got it all wrong!

Christians are to go out for preaching and teaching from house to house and door to door {Matthew 10:11-13} and they're to do so in pairs {Luke 10:1} they're not to be a part of the world's political system {John 17:14} and this is because if they do then they can't unite as one to propagate the Good News of God's own government since they're still supporting human government and secondly it will be impossible for them to LOVE their neighbours who are of the opposition parties {Mark 12:31} and the worst of it all is they will be divided since each of them has a party of his choice so the LOVE Christ commanded them among themselves will be shattered! John 13:34-35

This is why Mr David Oyedepo can't be a true Christian because he's involved in all these!

TenQ:
It was a simple and direct question!
Have you noted that they have never been called 12 tribes of Jacob but 12 tribes of Israel?

My response is for many not just you alone so if i answer any question i always have other readers (followers) in mind.
They're not called Jacob's descendants because God changed the name of Jacob to Israel God's preferred name for all Faithful people who will become His worshipers throughout the world!

TenQ:
Have you noted that they have never been called 12 tribes of Jacob but 12 tribes of Israel?

Israel is the name God gave all faithful people so faithless descendants of Jacob can't be rightly called "Israelites" that's what God's word says:

Circumcision is, in fact, of benefit only if you practice law; but if you are a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. If, therefore, an uncircumcised person keeps the righteous requirements of the Law, his uncircumcision will be counted as circumcision, will it not? And the physically uncircumcised person will, by carrying out the Law, judge you who are a transgressor of law despite having its written code and circumcision. For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision something on the outside, on the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit and not by a written code. That person’s praise comes from God, not from people Romans 2:25-29

Ken4Christ:
Not everything in the book of Revelation is symbolic. Some are literal. And you will know when you read within contest which one is literal and which one is symbolic.

For instance, the seven churches Jesus wrote letters to in the book of Revelation were literal. The churches were in existence.

The twelve tribes mentioned in Revelation 7 are also literal.

The question you should ask is why is the list different from the one in the Old Testament.

Only the Tribe of Dan was excluded. And it was majorly because they were given to idolatry. They also rejected the land alloted to them.

So, the Revelation 7 refers to Isreal as a Nation. And these 144,000 are the elect Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24. They will be raptured at the end of the great tribulation period that will befall the Jews. And they are seen in heaven in Revelation 14.

The whole nation practiced idolatry that's why God punished them severally until that nation was condemned! Matthew 21:43

Broveens42:
Do you know why god ordered execution of his own image, including infants and how man can stop expressing that image ?
If you have any logical answer then I would agree an atheist is naturally unwise

YES i know!

This life is not all about being born, grow old, get sick and die God has set everlasting life for humans in the beginning that's why we don't want to die if we're healthy and enjoying life {Ecclesiastes 3:11} but sin brought us to where we are today. So God wanted to arrange for a way out of this situation we found ourselves, a nation has to be given rules that will reflect what God has in mind until the solution which is a perfect role model for mankind is born in their midst {Genesis 49:10} that's why God singlehandedly picked two octogenarians and sent them to Egypt in order to deliver His people from slavery out of the hand of the world's most powerful nation of that time.
Despite being feeble the two octogenarians came out with millions of people and the stubborn powerful king perished in the red sea.
So that's a warning to all the nations around the Mediterranean sea any nation planning to stop this people are oppose them you and i know undoubtedly that logically, reasonably and practically such a nation is awaiting total extermination!
So can you now answer my question?

Lukuluku69:
Ok. Keep the faith.
It's bye bye until the next babble

Thanks!

Lukuluku69:
Whether you believe or not doesn't change a thing. It doesn't change a thing. Keep the faith.
And neither do I believe that God Almighty The Maker of everything there is, both known and unknown can leave other Nations groping and straying while He forever attends to a petulant and unrepentant spoiled brat in the children of Israel. It paints God has an uncaring Almighty. You see all these your Love, kindness and the works you have been posting, please put a snooze on it for a while for I know that before Taze Russell came up with this Cult of yours there were not alien to Men. Whether you believe in a replacement or not, that is not my concern and I am not going to break any sweat on that. Your Jesus said the Kingdom of God shall be taken from You (his Jewish listeners back then) whatever you make of that is entirely yours not mine But wait a second, I thought you are done with me? Or am I missing something ni?

I have finalized it by saying:

Now i understand you better than ever before!

But you said:

Lukuluku69:
No you don't and don't even try. Keep to your babbles.

You can never understand anything not to talk of me.

I don't know what else you want from me that's why i'm expatiating on why i believe the God of Israel, the replacement plan and how to IDENTIFY the nation replacing Israel through their production of the fruit expected of the abandoned nation.

Lukuluku69:
Good for you to have listened to both sides of the divide. Guess what? I have listened to everyone there is to listen to! And my own take away is that every Nation, every tongue have had a taste of the wonders and lights of God's revelation. Some have had more and some less that, according to the wisdom of God which you can't gainsay. In the comity of Nations, it is true they have had more but they lost that Light with their holier than thou attitude, with their stiff-necked attitude and many more. As such, they have been passed by and another taken their place.
The Bible says they are a Nation of Reprobates and Reprobate coins shall men call them. When a coin is out of fashion, new ones are necessary because the old ones has lost it value. So as Israel.

I don't believe that the same God had business with any other nation except the Israelites as no other nation had anything to do with the laws God gave the Israelites through Moses.

And of course the Israelites lost it as they aren't faithful to the true God that's exactly why i focused more on the positive results God promised whether any religion claiming they're the replacements God used after abandoning Israel is producing it. Matthew 7:16-18

I don't just follow the stories i calculate what the God of Israel promised as sign to identify the new replacement! Isaiah 2:2-4

Lukuluku69:
See I told you, don't even try to understand me. Don't even try.
In my working days way back, an Oga used to tell me, if you are sure of it, put your signature to it! Oga, you are the one quoting Jewish books all along nah.
And for your information, I believe in the brotherhood of Men based entirely on the recognition of God The Almighty and the examples of His Messengers either from India, Judea, Katmandu or Arabia.
You guys are the one fixated with Israel. I recognize Israel as well as others. And my Ancestors too. Were you a Traditionalist, I will accommodate you and ask you to table what you believe in

My ancestors never wrote any books but stories about how they survived back then with different deities but the book written by the Israelites says there is only one God and all others are demons. So i have to listen attentively to both sides in order to form an opinion, what i discovered is that the deities my ancestors worshiped failed to make peace reign among their worshipers but as for the God of Israel there is LOVE JOY PEACE PATIENCE GOODNESS GENTLENESS FAITH MILDNESS and SELF-CONTROL among the worshipers. That's why i focused more on the God of Israel and ever since then i have learned so many good things that no other religions can point to except what is written in books that's yielding no practical benefits. Some also claiming worshipers of the Israelite God but can only quote what is written in the books there's no practical benefits yet the God of Israel promised that those getting the sense of His inspired words will benefit themselves maximally. Isaiah 2:2-4
So i concluded that all those not getting any benefits from whatever religion they're practicing aren't worshipers of this God who promised His own worshipers benefits!

Lukuluku69:
Whatever you read into it doesn't cut any ice with me really. You have an opinion about Islam and Muslims too. So?

My opinion is that my ancestors never knew these books so if i have to choose between what my ancestors worship and what any book says there must be practical benefits to hold unto not just what books say!

So if you believe that a book brought from a far distant land is from God but what your ancestors worshiped is not from God then you need to back up such opinion with visible benefits you can show anyone not just what is written in a book. That's why i hing unto the practical benefits to be enjoyed by everyone!

.

Lukuluku69:
If you mean your babbles, no I don't understand you. They are babbles to me. Way of points to the discuss at hand.

Your submissions are not fact based rather conjectures, patch patch as you go along.

Historical facts are cold hard facts, you can't change them. The events after Babylon demise is clear for to see and your submissions on it is at best wishy-washy.

But I understand that you have to stick to those views in order from you not to be shunned and still relevant at your Halls.

At least you have formed an opinion about me!

Lukuluku69:
No you don't and don't even try. Keep to your babbles. You can never understand anything not to talk of me.

At least you now understand me shey?

Broveens42:
That's why I said you should go back to your native language.. Because you insinuated in that first post that a man of wisdom is only one that believes in God, which is a fallacy...
An atheist can decide not to drink to stupor as to be in the right frame of mind and not get duped...that's wisdom.. that's what the proverb is all About....it is portraying the effects high alcohol consumption
A lot of people who discipline their children are not even from your denomination to start with... But still possess wisdom.... That part of proverbs is only showing that they do that so kids would not bring shame to the family not like the parents are saints..
That is why the portion you quoted as "the fear of God is the beginning wisdom" ended at verse 12 as "he who hath wisdom hath for himself...." It is not for me or to influence a group

Do you know why people are killing people today and how mankind can put an end to it?

If you know a practical and logical way i will agree with you that an atheist is WISE!

Lukuluku69:
Attaboy run along now and babble no more

Now i understand you better than ever before!

sonmvayina:
There is only one creator
And only one power.
That is why it is called a UNIverse
I follow his laws just like he ordered so that we live in peace.
Show me where he said he will impregnate a woman to sire a son ?
You see the difference between you and me?

Ọmọ that's theory for you just as your own god also has some theories that sounds stupid to me but it's after we begin applying what each theory says in a practical sense that the benefits becomes obvious.
So leave the theories because that will complicate everything now just show me the result of your theory to prove that it's worthwhile!

Hismasterpiece:
You don't know they can be an immense help to your ministry?

If you know what God's Kingdom means you'll realize that they are supposed to be our enemies because they're agents of Satan's government {Luke 4:6} while we are preaching for God's government. Matthew 24:14
Vladimir Putin of Russia labelled us "terrorists" not because we're terrorizing or killing anyone but due to the fact that those accepting our message will not pick up weapons in support of any human government just as Russians are going to kill Ukrainians today due to Putin's orders.

Do you now see why we have no business with them? John 15:19; 17:14

Lukuluku69:
Oh you want to run? Eyah. I will let you run but occasionally I will call out your babbles when I see one.
So long Oga Babbler just like the Apostle Paul

Thanks for your time!

sonmvayina:
Do you really have a god or your just trying to make sense of your indoctrination...
Use your brain, it is not for decoration.

GOD means SUPREME BEING so present the beings under the control of th one who is SUPREME and let's evaluate the qualities of the God you know through their conduct!

Broveens42:
When I say go back to your native language, you think I'm joking
It is not only the fear of God that suggest you have wisdom... You can take certain life changing decisions muddled with intelligence and action according to your good book
Proverbs 20:1
Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not WISE.
Proverbs 29:11
A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a WISE man keeps himself under control.
Proverbs 29:15
To discipline a child produces WISDOM, but a mother is disgraced by an undisciplined child.
Hahahaha. .. go back to your native language

Everything you quoted supported what i said!

You can be smart and intelligent to reach out for more bottles of wine than others, get money to pamper your children with everything they want but the end result will prove whether you're WISE or FOOLISH because the one who outsmarted others during drinking bouts will eventually get drunk and mess up everything just as those who spent everything to pamper their children will become grief when their spoit children bring them shame but those who used God's word to train their children are enjoying the fruit of their labour!

Lukuluku69:
The world knows already. How long was Taze Russell gone now?
The time is near when you guys will gather and put an end to your Death Wish Cult.
As for your question, please read out loud what happened to the Calf Worshipers from amongst the Israelites during Moses time? Sebi Jehovah invited them for a tea party and beg them not to do it again?

Lukuluku69:
The babble again.
Babble 1:7
Continue.

Lukmon i'm through with you so go and meet your god it's not by force to worship my own!

KaLuCh:
Thank and God bless you too sir.
I see the difference here, the tribe of Dan isn't in Revelations' list. Also, the half tribe of Manasseh was included, and Joseph too, even though we know that Joseph's Tribe was later split into two namely Ephraim and Manasseh. Was that the point you wanted me to get? Or there's more.

I want you to know the meaning of what John penned down in that book!

This is what it means: Israel is the name God gave the man who was desperate to inherit the heritage of pure worship as an everlasting blessing {Genesis 32:28} Jacob was ready as in battle prepared to gain that heritage so he outsmarted his brother (Esau) and fought with God's angel (vision) for the same purpose.

From God's viewpoint anyone from any race having such attribute is an Israelite so if they're from another nation Jesus referred to suchlike ones as the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" that's why he told his disciples to fish out such individuals first from among the Jews {Matthew 10:6} this will be the first set to become BORN AGAIN brothers of Christ or as the scriptures called them members of the first resurrection {Revelations 20:1-6} but since the Jews failed to complete the needed figure (144,000) then the invitation was extended to other nationalities! Matthew 22:1-14

Note that salvation is for all mankind {John 3:16} there are some places where the good news will not reach them in time until the final part of the days {Matthew 10:23} so the needed figure would have been completed before the Good News gets to them therefore members of such nations will have everlasting life for welcoming the Good News of God's Kingdom but none from their nation will be chosen to rule with Christ because the Good News reached them lately!

That's the meaning of what John penned down in the Bible book Revelations 7:4-8

May you have PEACE!