₦airaland Forum

StillDtruth:
You people Lie then fabricate books

Here are the links:

https://www.scribd.com/document/477783606/The-pagan-origin-of-trinity

https://www.biblicalunitarian.com/articles/pagan-roots-of-the-trinity-doctrine-ed-torrence-2002

https://www.ucg.org/learn/bible-study-aids/god-trinity/god-trinity/how-ancient-trinitarian-gods-influenced-adoption

https://www.quora.com/Is-Trinity-a-pagan-concept-If-so-where-does-that-leave-Christianity

https://medium.com/@logicalbakwas_67383/the-pagan-origins-of-the-trinity-8f730caf85c1

None is from the Watchtower! John 8:32

cornelboy:
That why i always ask them what was Jesus identity before coming to earth.
It was when he came to earth he got the name "Jesus". So what was his name before then?

According to the Bible there is one angel who always represent God in the presence of all other angels, this is the angel who spoke with Abraham among the big trees of Mamre {Genesis 18:1} some may like argue saying Abraham spoke to Jehovah but John made it clear to us that no man has seen God at any given time so who have they been seeing and talking to face to face {Deuteronomy 34:10} surely it the only angel who always represent God {Exodus 13:21; 14:19} that's what apostle John was telling us! John 1:18

So Jesus is the angel of the Lord or the Archangel whose duty has always been to speak for God before other angels and humans as spokesman you will notice that Michael has never been said to speak with any human directly throughout the Bible whenever that name (Michael) is mentioned he speaks with an angel or angels {Daniel 10:13; Jude 9} and whenever he speaks with a human the Bible will say the angel of God or Jehovah! Exodus 13:21; 14:19

Daniel later revealed that this angel who always stand up as defender or protector of God's people is Archangel Michael! Daniel 12:1 compare to Daniel 3:25

So the name Jesus who is the WORD of God bears in heaven is Michael!

Emusan:
Jesus Christ Is the Creator, He created both Michael and you.

Can you quote a verse that says Jesus created Michael?

GothamCities:
Then let it start from you.
Give me a direct word for word quotation from the Bible that says "Jesus is angel Michael "

You are the one who first demanded a word for word quotation so it should start from you.
To me everything you people are claiming regarding Jesus being God or Trinity all came from comparing what is found written in the scriptures no verse explicitly says Jesus is God neither can we find the word TRINITY so instead of asking for doctrines in a word for word quotation we must all agree to see reasons with whatever quotation anyone presents for his doctrine.
From my own point of view Jesus is the Archangel Michael before coming to planet earth!

GothamCities:
I'll quote the same Bible and make counter references if I consider your reference to be in deceit.

That's exactly why i said it's not working unless we can have a direct word for word quotation in the Bible that is undeniable like:

"Jesus is God"
Or
"Jesus is the Archangel Michael"

In the absence of this it's better for each person to hold onto his or her own opinion!

Okezie5Regs:
Definitely 🫡

The Israelites and Jews never believe in a Trinity! Deuteronomy 6:4 compare to Mark 12:29

GothamCities:
My words referencing the Bible. Give me what I said in full. Your dubious character of cutting off a phrase from full texts must stop!

Would you also welcome my words when i reference the Bible without asking me for a word to word quotation?

Jesus/Michael

*Always represents the true God. Exodus 13:21; 14:19
*Standing for the salvation of obedient mankind. Daniel 12:1; Matthew 20:28
*Voice that will raise the dead! John 5:28-29; Thessalonians 4:16
*Lead all heavenly army. Matthew 25:31; Revelations 12:7

GothamCities:
Please quote the full text where you carved this from.

Those are your own words not the Bible, i need where it's boldly written in the Bible "Jesus is God"

Thanks!

sonmvayina:
It is the kings of the earth that despised the Jewish people.

Oh sorry i left the thread you came late.

Some other time.

Bye!

GothamCities:
Jesus is God.

Please quote a verse in the Bible where this is written.
Thanks!

Okezie5Regs:
No sir, I don't consider that theory. The trinity is a very significant number in religion and spirituality, several religions both those extinct have had their own form of the trinity so the origin is a bit complicated and not well defined.
You may have just given me an idea 🤔🤔

We are all learning!

GothamCities:
Here are some scriptures that distinguish Jesus from angels:

1. Hebrews 1:4-5 "So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. For to which of the angels did God ever say, 'You are my Son; today I have become your Father'?"

Note: God has never said to any angel "You are my son, today I have become your Father." He said it only to the Son who is also called God in verses 8 and 9.

Also note the question "To which of the angels...?" If Jesus was an angel, the question would have been "To which of the other angels ..."

Can you see it? Or you want StillDtruth to come and force the truth into your JW head?

2. Hebrews 1:8-9: "But about the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever...'"

Note: The Son is explicitly called God.

Let me show you one more scriptures. There are so many including Revelation 1:17-18 where Jesus said to John "I am the First and the Last. The one who lived and was dead and is alive forever more..." Your co-traveller on the path of destruction (may God show you mercy), Janosky ignored this verses in the other thread and was barking Revelation 1:1. That JW cult miscreant needs some spiritual eye surgery.

My dear, hear what Paul said below:

Galatians 1:8, Paul says:

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!"

Notice that Paul didn't say "If we or another angel..." if Jesus was an angel, Paul would say "If we or another angel..." By simply saying "If we or an angel..." Paul is saying there has never been an angel to bring the gospel, if any angel brings another gospel in future, let him be cursed. You see, he said "another gospel" because there had been a gospel. He didn't say "another angel" because there had been no angel.

You haven't shown me a verse that says "Jesus is not an angel"

Emusan:
Yes! This is Jesus because He is The WORD.

Jesus is not written in the verse!

Emusan:
Now, the challenge is for you to just openly say Jesus is not THE WORD

You haven't quote a verse that says Jesus is the word of God!

StillDtruth:
See, you are Lying.
Records of past stories already say it began some long time after Christ ascended. So you are the one Lying

See.

cornelboy:
Nice nice

We all agreed that Jesus is the character known as the "WORD of God" in the Bible not because there is any scripture that explicitly say so but after comparing other scriptures.
So why can't we do the same when it comes to the angel who never spoke to any human for once throughout the scriptures rather anytime his name is mentioned he always speak with other angels like God's representative.
This is the same angel who was going ahead of the Israelites as representative of God! Exodus 13:21; 14:19
And according to the scriptures he is the commander in chief of all heavenly armies.
It's only when he became human that he first spoke directly to humans claiming he is God's representative! John 5:30
The only problem they have is TRINITY apart from that nothing stops any right thinking person from grasping that Jesus is the Archangel Michael!

MindHacker9009:
Jesus Christ was not despise but his fame spread rapidly due to His teachings, invented miracles and his invented authority. Here are some Bible verses that mention His widespread reputation:

Matthew 4:24 – "And his fame spread throughout all Syria, and they brought to him all the sick, those afflicted with various diseases and pains, those oppressed by demons, those having seizures, and paralytics, and he healed them."

Matthew 9:31 – "But they went away and spread his fame through all that district."
(After Jesus healed two blind men.)

Matthew 14:1 – "At that time Herod the tetrarch heard about the fame of Jesus."

Mark 1:28 – "And at once his fame spread everywhere throughout all the surrounding region of Galilee."
(After Jesus cast out an unclean spirit in Capernaum.)

Mark 1:45 – "But he went out and began to talk freely about it, and to spread the news, so that Jesus could no longer openly enter a town, but was out in desolate places, and people were coming to him from every quarter."
(After healing a leper.)

Luke 4:14 – "And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee, and a report about him went out through all the surrounding country."

Luke 4:37 – "And reports about him went out into every place in the surrounding region."
(After casting out a demon in Capernaum.)

Luke 5:15 – "But now even more the report about him went abroad, and great crowds gathered to hear him and to be healed of their infirmities."

Luke 7:17 – "And this report about him spread through the whole of Judea and all the surrounding country."
(After raising the widow’s son in Nain.)

John 12:19 – "So the Pharisees said to one another, 'You see that you are gaining nothing. Look, the world has gone after him.'"
(His fame troubled the religious leaders.)

The Roman empire crucified many people at that time so your quote applies to them too: "But he was pierced for our transgression; He was crushed for our errors. He bore the punishment for our peace, And because of his wounds we were healed."

The highlighted is exactly what happened to Jesus of Nazareth.
His FAME totally differs from his FACE!

The Israelites who applauded him due to his FAME despised him when they saw his FACE according to Isaiah 53:2

He will come up like a twig before him, like a root out of parched land. No stately form does he have, nor any splendor; And when we see him, his appearance does not draw us to him.

When Pontius Pilate brought Jesus out for the Jews to look at his FACE he asked them:

“Which one do you want me to release to you, Bar·abʹbas or Jesus the so-called Christ?” Matthew 27:17

The Jews said in a loud voice:

“To the stake with him!” Matthew 27:22

So they prefer the FACE of a thief to that of Jesus!

For that reason I will assign him a portion among the many, And he will apportion the spoil with the mighty, Because he poured out his life even to death And was counted among the transgressors; He carried the sin of many people, And he interceded for the transgressors. Isaiah 53:12

This is the last verse of Isaiah 53 Sir.

Well it's self explanatory.

May you have Peace!

MindHacker9009:
The spoils Isaiah is is taking about not of his own people. Who is dividing the spoils with the strong today?
12 "Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong"

You are going too far this is what verses 3 said:

He was despised and was avoided by men, A man who was meant for pains and was familiar with sickness. It was as if his face were hidden from US. He was despised, and WE held him as of no account

Isaiah is talking about the Israelites that maltreated the person in question Sir!

MindHacker9009:
Isaiah is talking about the nation of Israel:
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 "Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong"

Isaiah himself penned down those words and according to his writing Israelites themselves are the people who despised the character in question not people of the nations to whom he is not related!

RealityKings1:
Encyclopedia was complied by humans, what gives you the impression that I should follow their thought form?

You as a CRITICAL THINKER need not follow the Encyclopedia but since many people follow it you should please liberate us by providing just one example of another religious creature apart from humans.

Thanks in advance!

MindHacker9009:
Then read these and notice the words: He; Him
Exodus 4:22-23 – "Thus says the Lord, Israel is my firstborn son, and I say to you, ‘Let my son go that he may serve me."
Hosea 11:1 – "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son."

Isaiah is talking primarily about his own people who hate this person not the other way around!

RealityKings1:
Maybe you aren't observant enough

Hmmmmmmm that makes sense but since you as a CRITICAL THINKER can you help us with just one example?

The Encyclopedia says only humans have that attribute but if you as a CRITICAL THINKER can help us we will learn from you sir!

Well all what we've all been doing is to compare verses so we can come to a conclusion on the identity of the person called the "WORD of God"

Only two characters in the Bible fits this description:
Archangel Michael and Jesus of Nazareth!

MaxInDHouse:
Archangel Michael is the same person who came as Jesus. He is the WORD of God {John 1:1; Revelations 19:13} which means it's through him that all heavenly armies receives instructions from God.

He is the one standing for the salvation of obedient mankind and through his earthly mission many will gain everlasting life {Daniel 12:1} God has given him the authority to raise the dead {1Thessalonians 4:16} so with just a call all those in the memorial tomb will hear his voice and come out {John 5:28; Daniel 12:3 compare to John 11:43-44} all other loyal angels are reporting to him so they are called "his angels" Revelations 12:7 compare to Matthew 25:31

Satan is the head of all rebellious angels {Revelations 12:7} he deceived 1/3 of the angels to abandon their duties in heaven {Revelations 12:4} and they came to have sex with female humans {Genesis 6:1-2} he is one of the first sets of angels in heaven so Michael (Jesus) is waiting for orders from his father before destroying Satan and all other rebellious beings whether human or angels! Luke 19:27

MindHacker9009:
Isaiah 53 goes on to say:

11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 "Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong"

This is the nation of Israel Isaiah is referring to.

Well the word "He" means another thing to me not a nation hating themselves.

Thanks!

MindHacker9009:
Isaiah was referring to the nation of Israel. Even you yourself despise the nation of Israel today.

If Isaiah is talking about his own nation does that mean Isaiah who is a Jew and his entire nation hate their own nation?

Remember Isaiah is talking as if it's the Jews who maltreated the person in question so how can it be that they are talking about their own nation?

Meanwhile i love the nation of Israel just as i love people of all races!

Emusan:
YES! JOHN 1:1, Rev 19:13
So, provide a verse that says "Archangel Michael is THE WORD"
No! Both JOHN 1 & Rev 19:13 clear say who THE WORD is
Provide a verse that says Archangel Michael is THE WORD.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. Revelations 19:13

The name "JESUS" is not mentioned in either of the two verses nah?

What i asked you is a verse that says in plain words "Jesus is the word of God"

Who has put faith in the thing heard from us? And as for the arm of Jehovah, to whom has it been revealed? He will come up like a twig before him, like a root out of parched land. No stately form does he have, nor any splendor; And when we see him, his appearance does not draw us to him. He was despised and was avoided by men, A man who was meant for pains and was familiar with sickness. It was as if his face were hidden from us. He was despised, and we held him as of no account.  Truly he himself carried our sicknesses, And he bore our pains. But we considered him as plagued, stricken by God and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgression; He was crushed for our errors. He bore the punishment for our peace, And because of his wounds we were healed. Like sheep we have all wandered about, Each has turned his own way, And Jehovah has caused the error of us all to meet up with him. He was oppressed and he let himself be afflicted, But he would not open his mouth. He was brought like a sheep to the slaughter, Like a ewe that is silent before its shearers, And he would not open his mouth. Isaiah 53:1-7

Please interpret this prophecy so we can all know the person Isaiah is talking about.

May you have Peace!

Janosky:
MUMU post of WAILING WAILERS consoling themselves

They don't know Russell is among the 144,000 kings and priests who will rule with Christ Jesus in heaven!

Emusan:
Oya provide the verse that says so

Have you ever seen a verse that says in plain words "Jesus is the word of God"?

Please quote it because that's the same character both of us are talking about the title "word of God" remains anonymous until we start to apply other scriptures to it just as Michael is applied to a human and Archangel!

Janosky:
That delusion invented in your brain.
Verbal DIFFERENCES of opinion @ Matthew chapter 4:4-10 & Jude 1:9, you change am to "struggle".
LYING miscreant.

Sometimes i just watch them do their thing but what i will never take from them is quoting me and telling me not to talk about my faith when they are saying all sort of nonsense, imagine someone who said all females are Satan's children also coming to quote me claiming he wants to correct me!

delkuf:
guy I wasn't talking to you.

Have i ever talked to you before you come quoting me?