₦airaland Forum

I purposely came to your thread so i can remind you what you said regarding offering in your churches and why true Christians (Jehovah's Witnesses) don't go on retirement unlike your own people!

Truvelisback:
What is the difference between an Offering and Voluntary Offering? Bro, No difference. An Offering is always voluntary. Secondly, regarding tithing. The purpose of tithing is to solve some monetary problem in the church. JW don't take tithe but they take donations or Voluntary offering.

Your Abioye and Oyedepo part ways in order for Abioye to gather his own subscribers and start making his money through their tithes unlike true Christians (Jehovah's Witnesses) where no one can get rich through our ministry because it's not for business!

Sand2022:
Nawa o. Oga if there is a fixed date, which date is that? In the case of JWs, we know the date they fixed. So which date did John and Jesus disciples fix?

There you go deceiving yourself!

Neither John the baptist, Jesus of Nazareth, first century Apostles or Governing Body fixed any date it's all about sense of urgency misconstrued by many as fixed date.

But if you don't agree please quote any of the publications of the Watchtower where a date is fixed e.g 18/12/2024 that any publication of Watchtower mentioned apart from anticipation like first century Jewish disciples of Christ!

WINDSOW:
I have so much against your deceptive magazine reading organisation

I will love to help you out perhaps you don't know that's the only Christian organization that you can't see anything BIBLICALLY wrong with!

If you don't know what is BIBLICALLY wrong with God's organization then stick to what you know below:

WINDSOW:
If I told you he was the one that requested for retirement to have his ministry, you would argue.
He formally requested to be retired to begin his own just as Oyedepo son did.
Praise God!!!

Kingsnairaland:
Bible made it clear the characteristics of people who will go to hell.

Guy hell means grave so everyone goes there at death!

WINDSOW:
Don't just start your mind games with me. We will ruin this thread and I will never give in to your false explanation of the Bible. I know you guys are good at using the Bible to counter argument to your favour.

Tell your Religious leaders to always practice what yall preach. Na una Elder matter we still dey try resolve here

So you have nothing against the true Christians so keep quiet!

damosky12:
You're trying to sound familiar. Jaudaists kor!
Sit down.
The Apostles handed over the work to others. That's retirement.

The Apostles have responsibilities that Jesus gave them and sharing of food will make it difficult for them to handle such assignment that's why they gave that to younger men in the congregation. In the congregation we have the elders (Bishops) {1Timothy 3:2} handling weightier responsibilities while the ministerial servants (Deacons) {1 Timothy 3:8, 12} are given the lesser assignments no one gets retired!

damosky12:
They didn't stop preaching and they didn't stop praying. Literally what we see with Bishop Abioye. Shey?
My guy, stop this beating about. If you insist you're seeing an error, go and start a church and do the right one. No need to be emptily noisy and nosy here. Regards!

I never engaged you in the first place so if you don't know what the Bible teaches keep quiet and let Bible scholars do this! 2Timothy 3:16-17

WINDSOW:
JW spotted.
Organisation filled with hypocrites

Point to what you call HYPOCRISY that's not in the ACTS of APOSTLES of the CHRIST!

damosky12:
Sorry I assumed you knew this as per you mentioned Ireland of Patmos. Yes, John was barnished to Patmos. Not by the church.
Simple knowledge of grammar and context shows us the recipient of that statement. News flash! It's not the church. It's Pharisees!

Obviously you don't know that false religions in Jesus' day bears that group name but since all of you have known the name they bore back then none of you will answer Pharisees today but it's by your FRUIT that we will know where you belong not by your claim! 2Corinthians 11:14-15 compare to Matthew 7:16-18

damosky12:
Maybe you should go and search for a better scripture verse for what you're trying to do. This one is nursery-level drab.
Retirement is not from MINISTRY. It's a church administration thing. It's a retirement that allows them to safe tine to do other things especially when they're not as young as they used to be. Why this is a fuss is because it's announced. The Apostles, for instance, "retired" from welfare administration to focus on prayer and the ministry of the word. That's an actual instance that can help
Acts 6:2-4
[2]Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
[3]Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
[4]But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

I love the verses you quoted!

Now let's take it verse by verse:

The church increased in number due to inflow of Judaists from different places so there is need to attend to some issues that's why the Apostles told members to select trusted men in the church to handle such assignment nobody was retired like your churches are doing today!

damosky12:
Of course, no one retires from ministry as such. Y'all should understand that retirement in this context is more of church administrational than actual ministry.
Your church history books will teach you that John wasn't administering a church at the island of Patmos. He was a banished there. Even his epistles showed that,in his later years, he retained oversight over his disciples and churches via letters. Right?
Let's stop being dogmatic and believing others are ignorant.
From a fellow Christian with no affiliation to winners chapel.

According to the highlighted was apostle John banished by the church?

And Jesus spoke about your churches that you people practice what man-made RULES says instead of what he taught. Matthew 15:7-9

There is no RETIREMENT in the Lord's work no church practiced it in the first century!

Truvelisback:
The pastor only retired as a pastor of Winners' Chapel based on their leadership rules of the church, not in God's work. He is still in ministry doing God's work. Stop confusing yourself.

Ọmọ we are saying the same thing highlighted shows it's based on man-made RULES and not what Jesus taught! Matthew 15:7-9

Go and tell all your friends that anyone calling Jehovah's Witnesses false prophets because of WRONG EXPECTATIONS cause by SENSE OF URGENCY is speaking against true Christians because that's exactly how first century Jewish disciples of Christ felt back then and that's why Jews believe John the baptist and Jesus of Nazareth are both FAKE as God's Kingdom never come till today in fact the Jews are still expecting their own CHRIST till today!

Michael547:
😂😂😂......so the soul neither has a physical body nor a spiritual body. Na wa oo....so what kind of body does the soul have? Did Jesus tell you in mark 12:30 that the mind is inside the soul? Oga did Jesus say that man is made up of four seperate part in mark 12:30? Yes or no?

Abeg leave this guy because he can send you to Hell-fire without Jesus' consent o!

Sand2022:
Oga, you have not answered me. So you do not understand the sentence? if you now understand it, you should be apologizing for your misguided attack on me. And not switching to something else I never brought up.

Mr PIMO,
You should know that only the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses are fully qualified as anointed and they don't perform miracles.

Go and tell all your friends perhaps you don't know that's why they all abandoned this thread because it's against their beliefs that miracles is the yardstick!

Sand2022:
John had a fixed date, though he never said it. How then do you know if he never said it?

John the baptist QUESTIONED Jesus' credentials because Jesus didn't rescue him as he thought. Matthew 11:2-3

Sand2022:
I think you should be researching the publications before you comment. You're making errors that even Watchtower can not make.

That's to show you i'm making my own personal research apart from what Watchtower says. Are you now convinced that it's not just whatever Watchtower says?

Sand2022:
It is true that Jews, including Jesus disciples thought that Messiahs coming will usher in the kingdom. That was the belief probably as taught by the Rabbis.

Actually the Messiah will usher in the kingdom according to the prophecy at Isaiah 9. But when he will do so no one knows. They didn't have any fixed date. It was just expectation just as we do have today about God's kingdom.

So his disciples also got confused based on the fixed date they all had in mind after confirming he is the Messiah they thought the Kingdom will come immediately after his resurrection! Act 1:6

Sand2022:
Secondly, John 21 is not about John the Baptist. It's about apostle John, the writer. Even that is not a fixed date. Who knows when John will die?

I never said it's about John the baptist i specifically mentioned John the apostle and the RUMOUR went round among BELIEVERS that John will not die until Jesus return {John 21:21-23} abeg when Jesus returns what exactly will happen according to beliefs of faithful and loyal disciples of Christ?

Sand2022:
In summary, there was a high sense of urgency and expectation at the time, but they didn't have any fixed date when the kingdom will come. And all there expectation was not by calculating dates and fixing when the kingdom will come, it was just a normal human curiosity. JWs fixing dates was not a sense of urgency, but misinterpretations of the scriptures

So how come such sense of urgency never meant John the baptist and Jesus of Nazareth who caused it weren't termed FALSE PROPHETS as you're now saying about Jehovah's Witnesses?
Is it not the same sense of urgency they created in the minds of faithful people back then?

Sand2022:
But they never had any fixed date in mind. There was a high sense of urgency during that time because of how they understand the law and prophets.

Guy stop lying to yourself!

High sense of urgency means FIX DATING since believer can never think it will take more than a century before God's Kingdom comes the way John the baptist and Jesus of Nazareth delivered their message! Matthew 3:2; 4:17

Truvelisback:
What you don't know is that, there is a limit to what one can do due to age.

And such never applied to any of Jesus' friends shey?

Stop deceiving yourself in Christianity death is the end of our earthly race until resurrection when we are given incorruptible bodies to continue serving our God throughout eternity.

Retirement is never a Christian practice rather it's the command of men! Matthew 15:7-9

Sand2022:
Don't tell me you don't understand that sentence. The sentence says opposite of what youre attacking. Check it once more.

Guy only the Governing Body qualifies to be anointed of God all others rely on miracles as that's what their followers are looking for!

You people just like deceiving yourselves!

None among Jesus' apostles got retired in fact apostle John was serving in his 90s when he got banished to the isle of Patmos.

So who is retiring who in the Lord's work?

RETIREMENT in the Lord's work or in Oyedepo's business venture?

We are living in the end time when Satan and his cohorts are ready to let hell loose in fact they want everyone dead by all means so unlike the past apostates of our time refused to pitch their tents elsewhere but they want to remain in the assembly of loyal worshipers but at the same time antagonizing those who are loyal to God's arrangement by telling such ones that they want to FREE THEM:

These are waterless springs and mists driven by a violent storm, and the blackest darkness has been reserved for them. They make high-sounding statements that are empty. By appealing to the desires of the flesh and with acts of brazen conduct, they entice people who have just escaped from those who live in error. While they are promising them freedom, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for if anyone is overcome by someone, he is his slave. Certainly if after escaping from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, their final state has become worse for them than the first. It would have been better for them not to have accurately known the path of righteousness than after knowing it to turn away from the holy commandment they had received. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog has returned to its own vomit, and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire. 2Peter 2:17-22

The irony of this is they are worshiping with the assembly yet they claim they want to liberate members of the same assembly!

Ask them where they worship at least to know where you will worship if you leave the assembly they are criticizing.

NO WAY!

AntiChristian:
So na PG rated! Lol!

God commanded Israelites to TEACH their little ones Sir! Deuteronomy 6:4-7

AntiChristian:
So Jehovah loves inspiring the mention breasts sir? But this is more than breast! There's a part that i found extremely poetic as it relates to.... going to mountain and climbing Palm tree holding it's fruit! How will you explain this to your grand daughter as memory verse?

3. Ọmú rẹ̀!
Orin Solomoni 4:5-6
Ọmú rẹ̀ méjèèjì dàbí abo egbin méjì tí wọ́n jẹ́ ìbejì tí ń jẹ láàrín ìtànná ewéko lílì.
Títí ọjọ́ yóò fi rọ̀ tí òjìji yóò fi fò lọ, Èmi yóò lọ sí orí òkè ńlá òjìá àti sí òkè kékeré tùràrí.

4. Afiwe Ibalopo taara!
Orin Solomoni 7:7-8
Ìdúró rẹ rí bí igi ọ̀pẹ, àti ọmú rẹ bí ìdì èso àjàrà.
Mo ní, “Èmi yóò gun igi ọ̀pẹ lọ; Èmi yóò di ẹ̀ka rẹ̀ mú”
Kí ọmú rẹ rí bí ìdì èso àjàrà, àti èémí imú rẹ bí i ápù.
....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
3. Perfect Breast description - Song of Songs 4:5-6
Your breast are like two fawns,
like twin fawns of a gazelle
that browse among the lilies.
Until the day breaks
and the shadows flee,
I will go to the mountain of myrrh
and to the hill of incense.

4. More Breast description - Song of Songs 7:7-8
Your stature is like that of the palm,
and your breast like clusters of fruit.
I said, “I will climb the palm tree;
I will take hold of its fruit.”
May your breast be like clusters of grapes on the vine,
the fragrance of your breath like apples,

The Bible contains so many parts this part is for adults who are contemplating marriage or who are already married not babies.
It's like asking a child what he or she taught about stoning someone to death or burning someone to death or burying someone alive.
Children needs parental guidance regarding such verses!

When Jesus walked the earth the nation of Israel has splited to two nations ten northern tribes known as Samaritans while the two Southern tribes were called Jews.
Jesus was a Jew so his ministry started within the Jews but since Satan knew when Jesus was born he has gathered enough enemies ahead before Jesus began so by the time Jesus was gathering loyal and faithful Jews to establish a movement or assembly of loyal worshipers of the true God Satan agents have gotten everywhere covered.
Wherever Jesus goes the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes just to mention prominent ones among the Jewish schools of thought that were on ground disputing over supremacy in Judea.
These rival groups were fighting for political ambitions to gather Jewish fighters in order to break free from Roman oppression therefore they all needed fighters to join their group but when Jesus began his own ministry his teachings sounds illogical as he was preaching love for neighbors and even enemies! Mark 12:31; Luke 6:27-28

But with the supernatural gifts Jesus was getting the attention of the people because Moses told them a prophet like him will come so they were anticipating a miracle performing prophet and Jesus did just that so even the Pharisees were convinced that Jesus is proving true as the promised Messiah! John 3:1-3

So why did first century Jewish nation as a whole reject Jesus?
What part did first century apostate played?

Since the Jews were anticipating a warrior king they wanted to forcefully make Jesus their king {John 6:15} their intention is that if someone as powerful as Jesus who can raise the dead, heal all wounds, cure all sicknesses and even control forces of nature like the waves of the SEA should lead them against Rome they will conquer and thus fulfil what God promised their nation regarding ruling the world! Daniel 2:44

But Jesus turned down the offer instead he was preaching peace and love for everyone!

This made most of his friends hate him and they kept waiting for him to utter something they can use as excuse to abandon him and that later happened! John 6:64-66

This now gave his enemies the upper hand as his disciples has left him remaining just few those who left him surely went back to join the revolutionary groups fighting for the liberation of the Jewish nation.

Now the APOSTATES (Satan's agents) made use of those who turned back from following Jesus and form alliance to get Jesus killed.

This people knew very well that they are living in the time that prophecies regarding the Christ should be fulfilled but since Jesus didn't dance to their tune they rejected him {John 7:} and stood against whatever God will do to their nation! Matthew 27:25

Who are the apostates of our time and what are they using to block others from doing God's will today? Matthew 23:13

To be continued....

seguntijan:
Much of What We Call Christianity Has Nothing To Do With Jesus.

I discovered that you're born a Muslim just as i was born a Muslim too but i converted.

Try to listen when talking about what you have been taught because it will really help you a lot!

thorpido:
Yes,but did you read the full chapter of this John 17 to understand where the 'oneness' in verse 22 came from?

YES!
Just as you read the full chapter of John 10 to understand where the oneness in verse 30 came from!

For many centuries apostasy disappeared from the scene until God decided to organize the Israelites as one assembly of worshipers and Satan started his work again!

This time around he used those who has been rescued from slavery in Egypt to oppose God's arrangement as they began criticizing Moses and whatever he does this led to the death of all those above twenty years of age that left Egypt except Joshua the son of Nun and Caleb the son of Jephuneh these two remained loyal throughout so God swore in His anger that only these two men will enter into the promise land! Numbers 14:30

What did Caleb and Joshua did that impressed the most high God?

Well they both remained loyal to Moses who was chosen to lead God's people even though Moses had his own flaws as fallible human yet Caleb and Joshua remained loyal throughout to Moses when other mature men were seriously criticizing Moses.

This continue until the first century when Jesus of Nazareth began his earthly ministry.

To be continued.....

thorpido:
Crap arguments above.^^^
They cherry pick scriptures but will not wind together to scriptures to get a full picture.

When he said,I and My Father are One ,they won't see that.

Well God, Jesus and Christians are One too! John 17:22

You're missing a lot!

Jesus was called "CHRIST" during his earthly life but it's language that makes the difference.

For instance the title CHRIST is the same as MESSIAH or ANOINTED ONE.

CHRIST is Greek language.
MESSIAH is Hebrew language.
ANOINTED is English language.

So the three means the same thing it's just the language barrier.

And Paul WAS a Judaist who later converted to Christianity!

APOSTATES have no life without the assembly of God so they don't know what to do when there is no ORGANIZED people doing God's will because Satan is their leader it's until they notice an assembly of loyal worshipers that they become active opposers against the congregation of God.
Ironically the first set of Apostates was the first human couple (Adam and Eve) Satan quickly initiated these two because failure to do so will mean his speedy destruction.
How?
If Adam and Eve have produced children before their rebellion death will not affect such ones as they will be without sin and it will be obvious that it's the ones burn after rebellion that's growing old, getting sick and dying of oldage so he needed to act fast in order to initiate the couple before they can produce perfect children.
From God's standpoint all humans are rebels since we inherited sin from our first parents! {Romans 3:23} that is why we are growing old, getting sick and dying of oldage! Romans 5:12
What pained Satan mostly is the statement God made when passing judgment on the three rebels, God said there will surface loyal worshipers from among the descendants of Adam and rebellious humans who are like the devil in character will continue to be enemies of these loyal ones! Genesis 3:15
So when Abel proved to be the first loyal son of Adam the other son who is rebellious like Satan killed him quickly! Genesis 4:1-8

So the beginning of war declared between the offspring of loyal worshipers and offspring of rebellion!

Who later joined the rebellious offspring and who remained loyal to God's arrangement?

To be continued...

Jesus is not God what the scriptures said is the Christ (Messiah) will be called "mighty God" {Isaiah 9:6} so when apostle John penned down the words found written in the Bible book of John 1:1 he was referring to a prophecy that says:

"I will raise up for them from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you, and I will put my words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him" Deuteronomy 18:18

The above is what God told Moses and Peter the apostle confirmed that Jesus fulfilled that prophecy {Act 3:22} because Moses was the first Israelite given supernatural powers like a God {Exodus 7:1} therefore the prophet who is coming in the same manner will be given such supernatural power like a God! Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1

But both Moses and Jesus had to spend forty days and forty nights without food or water in the presence of the only true God who can sustain life without food! Exodus 34:28; Matthew 4:2; Luke 4:4

The most high God who sent both Moses and Jesus is called JEHOVAH! Psalms 83:18

According to God's word (Bible) the first person to alienate himself from God is a spirit son of God. He wasn't contented with his position as one out of many spirit sons of God rather he wanted more! Isaiah 14:12-13
But since he was alone in his rebellion he wanted others both angels and humans to join his rebel group that's why he possessed the most cautious creature in the garden of Eden {Genesis 3:1-5 compare to Matthew 10:16} he first spoke to Eve so that the woman can convince her husband to join the rebel group! Genesis 3:6
God cursed this rebellious angel that he will surely be destroyed but as long as he exists there will always be enmity between his rebel group and loyal worshipers of the true God! Genesis 3:15
He succeeded in diverting the attention of many angels away from divine assignment given to them in heaven so they joined his rebel group and lost their privileges as loyal spirit sons of God! 2Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6
But the prophecy @ Genesis 3:15 has to do with rebellious humans too so who are those that proved to be offspring of the devil among humans in ancient times? John 8:44
What do they love doing and how can we IDENTIFY them today? 1John 2:18-19

To be continued.....

The one and only true Christian organization!

AntiChristian:
ẹ ṣeun sir. Ṣugbọn ṣe ó wà níbẹ̀ pe ọkọ ló n kọrin fún aya rẹ̀? Àti èéṣe tí gbogbo àwọn àwòrán àgbèrè wà níbẹ̀ nígbà tí àwọn ọmọdé yóò máa ṣe àkọ́kọ́ gbogbo èyí?

Ọkọ lè kéwì ìfẹ́ fún aya rẹ̀ bákannáà ni aya á lè kéwì ìfẹ́ fún ọkọ rẹ̀, kí á fi ọwọ́ wẹ ọwọ́ ni ọwọ́ fi ń mọ́.
Nínú òfin tí Ọlọ́run fún àwọn ọmọ Ísírẹ́lì ó ṣe pàtàkì kí àwọn òbí ṣe atọ́kùn ìkẹ́kọ̀ọ́ ọ̀rọ̀ Ọlọ́run {Diutarónómì 6:6-7} nígbà tí wọ́n bá fẹ́ kọ́ àwọn ọmọdé, nítorí náà àwọn ọmọ Ísírẹ́lì mọ̀ dájú wípé ó yẹ kí àwọn béèrè lọ́wọ́ àwọn òbí wọn nígbà tí wọ́n bá ṣalábàápàdé ohun tí kò yé wọn.

AntiChristian:
And Muhammad did had more that four as Allah permitted them for him. Just as it was permitted for many others in the Bible. David had like eight if i am not mistaken and Jehovah even wanted to give him more! But no where is intimacy as much exposed as these!

I still find it hard to believe the scripture mentions a woman's breast as much as these!

According to the Bible whatever lifestyle that's allowed in the past must stop each time new information is received. For instance Adam's children married themselves but later it was prohibited.
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob married whoever they like but later it was prohibited and their descendants were commanded not to marry from any other nation apart from Israel.
Israelite men who married more than one wife lived during the time polygamy has not been prohibited among worshipers of the true God but after Jesus has declared that we must return to the standard God set in the garden of Eden faithful people realized that polygamy is now a sin.
So talk about what Allah told Muhammad and not what happened before him because the God of Israel never condemned alcoholic beverages yet your Allah condemned it so why is your Muhammad not living by what your Allah said regarding four wives but turning to what happened in the lives of ancient Israelite but when it comes to alcoholic beverages your Muhammad hold onto that whereas Israelites were never commanded not to drink alcoholic beverages?

Regarding the mention of BREAST it's your Allah that's irritated not Jehovah, this proved that the two Spirits differs!