₦airaland Forum

Everlasting life is the GOAL not heaven:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

So the question should be:

Is it only followers of Jesus that can have this gift?

Guy, it's wrong mocking people's religion when you don't believe what they believe.
Nobody expect palliative from the church even in the first century when the Apostles were here there was nothing as such the only thing some Christians did was to organize themselves and started contributing money after selling their landed properties then they agreed to share the proceedings equally.
So they came to the Apostles to bless what they were doing even though it wasn't the idea of the Apostles.
But going to the church and expectating palliatives is umbilical.
Tithes were meant for the workers in the church so if you've paid you don't expect taking it back you can only ask your fellow believers to assist you in person but thinking there should be palliatives from the tithes received.
Haba, it's totally umbilical!

22jumpstreet:
Fake story...
There is a firmament up there that God has put up there to keep our the waters of heaven.
Earth is a closed system..Nobody is getting in and nobody is going out...The spital realm exist side by side the physical one...
If you have finished your mission on earth and ticked all the boxes then you can move to the next dimension, but if you have not, you come back again to try once more....

The OP has expressed his opinion that Nigeria should make the move to start a new religion and promote it globally.
https://www.nairaland.com/8076403/nigeria-must-start-new-religion

One thing we must admit is that there is no way we can do so without first considering the existing religions we had before the whitemen came to Africa, all these religions taught that the gods came from the heavens to the earth and that some of them returned to heaven.
So if we agree with our own religion that there has been people who once walked this planet and that they came from heaven and returned to heaven then questioning another religion for saying the same thing would make us a laughing stock!

Reflect7:
Heaven is a physical location in the sky, that a physical person can fly to?
Is it a location somewhere up in the clouds?
Or is it another planet in outer space?
Where did he fly to?

When talking about HEAVEN the Bible made it clear that there are two types:

The HEAVENS: the physical space that we can see through the use of microscope! Genesis 1:1


HEAVEN: the spiritual realm where spirit beings lives! Daniel 2:44

So when Jesus left the earth he returned to the spirit realm where spirits of his kind lives.
This realm is invisible to the eyes neither can we view it through the use of microscope.

Gravitational forces pulling objects to the earth only affects things that is found within the atmosphere but in the case of Jesus Christ He told his friends:

“You are from the realms below (earth); I am from the realms above (heaven). You are from this world; I am not from this world." John 8:23

So when he finished his earthly mission he suspended all the elements that's prone to gravity in his body so that he began floating gradually as he returns to where he belongs:

HEAVEN!

SpiritualWealth:
Which God Created Conjoined Twins in His Own Image Again ?
Christian God ?
Or
Muslim God ?
Let Us Know In The Comment Section.

It's a good thing when we reason together like intellectuals but in most cases some do let out the animalistic behaviors in them only to start insulting people who responds to their questions.
I hope that won't be the case with you too.

When the Bible said God created man in His image {Genesis 1:26} it means the intelligent mind who will continue making things better and making better things just like his Creator.
All other creatures have remained the same way they are till today, none of them thought of improving their eating habit, appearance, communication, transportation, accomodation and other things related to living creatures except man. We have continued to improve in all aspects because we were created in the likeness of the One who created all things.

As for mishaps later affecting creatures today it's due to negligence on our part as we ignore warnings from the Creator, there are certain things that will affect us when we refuse to do things as instructed by the Creator.

For instance God warned the first set of humans who will eat living creatures to make sure they drain the blood before they cook well then they can eat {Genesis 9:1-5} but after that generation humans began eating animals without draining it's blood in fact today there is what we call "BLOOD TRANSFUSION" which means taking blood from one creature and putting it in the body of another ignoring what the Creator said regarding GOOD HEALTH! Act 15:28-29
Please who is to blame?
Is it the Creator who gave us life saving and scientific information regarding how things ought to be done properly or we ignoring His guidance thinking He doesn't exist?

Ohyoudidnt:
Fortunately we are not a party to a false concept of inheriting an original sin. Each person is responsible for his or her own sin and not another's. Why should you share the blame of the sin of a parent who sinned before you and never consulted or made you a companion in committing the sin. How rational is it to inherit a sin you were no part of? Fantastic law!

What is the explanation your Allah has for Suffering, sickness and Death?
Why is there injustice?
Why wars?
Why food shortages?
Why inflation?

The Bible answered "it's due to INHERITED SIN"

What says your Allah if it's truly the Creator as your book claims.

Ohyoudidnt:
Says the mouthpiece of God or the god called MaxinDHouse.
God didn't create Adam and Eve for everlasting doom.
What proof have you that the Quran is not from Allah?
The linguistic uniqueness, fulfilled prophecies, scientific accuracy, spiritual impact, and preservation are evidence that the Quran is indeed a divine revelation from Allah.

So it's mankind that God created for suffering, sickness and death?

Guy Adam and Eve put mankind through all these suffering so if your Qur'an says otherwise keep whatever it says your Allah is not the same as our God so it's book has nothing to do with our God!

Ohyoudidnt:
The Quran fills the gap about Adam and Eve seeking forgiveness. It provides a detailed narrative about Adam and Eve seeking forgiveness for their disobedience to God.

That book (Quran) has nothing to do with God so if you believe in it i'm sorry for you.

Adam and Eve has been destroyed forever they will never be remembered during the resurrection of the dead. All the untold suffering mankind is experiencing till today is their doing. There is no forgiveness for them because the moment they supposed to ask for it they both transferred the blame instead of admitting their blunders.
They are the worst killers ever in the history of mankind without their blunders death, sickness and others won't have been mankind's problem if not for these two criminals.
So if you're depending on what that Arab book says ọmọ i pity you!

AbuTwins:
1. Ezekiel 18:20
"The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."

Do you believe what Ezekiel wrote here?

Ohyoudidnt:
Where did Cain and Abel learn about sacrifice and how to conduct same?

After the excommunication Adam and Eve lived close to the garden from which they were driven out so their children noticed that Adam and Eve must have really annoyed the owner of that beautiful garden before He could send them out that's why they thought of appeasing the owner of that garden through gifts.

As for virtue there was nowhere they could learn what is good or bad since no laws were given so they were both living by their God's given conscience with the mindset that one day the owner of that garden may change His mind and call them back in.

What God told Eve was misunderstood because Eve thought it's her son/child that will destroy the deceiver who misled her {Genesis 3:15} that's what she narrated to Cain her first child so after Cain realized that the owner of that garden was pleased with Abel's offer he decided to kill Abel as he doesn't want Abel to claim his glory through what he himself initiated. So Cain was politically ambitious that was what God warned him against.

But as for the couple God never said a word to them again until their death as they decided to take side with the slanderer who told them that God is a liar!

AbuTwins:
When Jehovah was ordering wars He forgot all these verses? Who was a Christian in the Bible? Show me who Jesus ever call Christian?

When Jehovah declared war it was against the enemies of pure worship not the enemies of humans so if you're an enemy to your neighbor but you have no problem with pure worship God will not order you to be killed until you kill someone that's why the order is always against those who aren't worshiping the true God not against worshipers of the same God.
The name Christians mean followers or those adhering to the teachings of Christ so Jesus can't call anyone by that group name since he left the earth before the group was established at Pentecost.

It's like asking if Yorùbá legends are Nigerians since the name Nigeria has not been established in their time.

AbuTwins:
It's deceitful when you know their fight is politically motivated and you portray it as being religious!

Jehovah sent Moses, Joshua, Saul, Samson, etc to fight his enemies!

Who is the supreme ruler in the old testament too?

David was supposed to become King against Saul (political) but do you notice that instead of fighting against Saul to kill him David was fighting against the enemies of pure worship?
That's to show you that worshipers of our God knows that politics supposed not to cause a war between them!

AbuTwins:
Is this what the governing body of Jehovah witness in USA told you?

That's what the Bible teaches!

God excommunicated Adam and Eve after the incident in Eden, He excommunicated Kung Saul after his unrepentant attitude so excommunication is Biblical.

The only difference now is that when someone is excommunicated he or she can repent and regain God's approval based on the ransom sacrifice of Christ Jesus but excommunication is our God's way of dealing with sinners who feels they're above the law!

AbuTwins:
Biblically Elohim can mean gods, angel, God, human,...
The "God" that is not man is Jehovah! And God does not become man!
God does not become man! This is not about the lesser usage of Elohim!

The point missing is name not title.

So JEHOVAH is not a man but that title GOD can be used for any person!

AbuTwins:
In fact, all Prophets from Adam, Noah, Jacob, Jonah,......, Elijah, Elisha, Joseph, Zechariah, John the baptist, etc are Muslims!

This is exactly what the priests of all religions be it Buddhists, Hindus and Traditionalists will say:

"All past virtuous people (no matter their nationality) were worshipers of our God"

So when someone tells you that then know it's deception because there are virtuous people everywhere but it doesn't mean they worship the same God.

For instance there were virtuous legends among Yorùbá people in ancient times were they also Muslims?

Of course you will object because their names aren't written in the Bible so for those Arabs to pick up names of virtuous Israelites claiming they were Muslims is not something new!

AbuTwins:
This is foolish sir. Are Christian groups too not fighting since the time of Paul, James and Peter after Jesus left? Go and read your history! You can even talk about the crusade of Martin Luther!

What you need to learn is the fact that anyone who lift up weapon against his fellowman for any reason whatsoever is not a follower of Christ {Matthew 26:52} so those you're referring to aren't Christians going by what the founder himself said.
Love your neighbour! Mark 12:31
Love your enemies! Luke 6:27-28
Love your fellow believers! John 13:34-35
Where is the room for wars against another person?

AbuTwins:
Who told you Iraq and Iran fight is mainly religious? You wey no dey do politics no fit Sabi politics! You go just dey spread falsehood!

Now you're talking!
I know politics is the reason why people lift up weapons against themselves not religion but the truth is that true worshipers of God will never fight for political reasons because our kingdom is no part of this world! John 18:36

So if your Allah allows it's worshipers to fight for political reasons then who is their supreme ruler? Allah or humans?

The title GOD has various meanings so when JEHOVAH said He is not a man He was telling His worshipers that His wisdom is extremely high for humans to reach His level of IQ. Isaiah 55:8-9

The title GOD could be used for human rulers and those who can perform supernatural signs that's why God Himself gave Moses and Jesus that title "God" {Exodus 7:1; Isaiah 9:6} and human rulers who doesn't have any regard for God's word! Psalms 82:6

There is no confusion it's either you are one of Jesus' disciples or against them, the group name "CHRISTIANS" wasn't the name God wants to call His worshipers it was divinely coined out to mislead Satan's agents who may try to claim they belong to Christ {Act 11:26} so the true God waited until the harvest time when Jesus began separating his fine seeds from among the weeds! Matthew 13:24-30

Even angels in heaven never knew the name God wanted to call His worshipers so the demons (fallen angels) can't know it {1Peter 1:12} so God allowed different religions to bear that group name "CHRISTIANS" for centuries until the year 1931 when His true worshipers has been called out of the weeds {Revelations 18:4} then God began calling His own worshipers by another group name:

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! Isaiah 65:15

Note what God has in mind for all others who are defaming God's name and the name of His Son by claiming Christians {Matthew 15:7-9} God will destroy all of them!

So don't be misled the true Christians or Jesus' disciples are united globally today in fact they are fulfilling what God promised regarding His true worshipers in the last days:


In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream. And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.” For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore! Isaiah 2:2-4 compare to Micah 4:1-3

The above is what will prove that the Prince of Peace {Isaiah 9:6} has come to this planet and his true followers are messengers and friends of PEACE throughout the earth! Act 1:8

God bless you and may you have PEACE!

Akell:
That thing called Quran is inherently flawed which has never stood the scrutiny of any independent observer in history. Only if they knew how many verses were abrogated....

The point is they called it "God's word" the title GOD connotes SUPREME BEING which mean the adherents should be united under their supreme ruler but the reverse is the case with their Allah the only thing that unites them is the black stone in Mecca that they always bow to apart from the black stone Muslims often kill Muslims at will and the worst part is they do pray to the same Allah for victory when going to kill their fellow worshipers due to politics and racism!

paxonel:
Let's assume that hellfire is a place everybody will go when they do something wrong. Will a Christian who commits suicide go to hellfire?

God created lives as a gift to the beneficiaries but if anyone decides that he is not fit to live or shows lack of appreciation God doesn't have any grudges with such ones so He will let them have their choice which is a return to none existence! Psalms 9:17

paxonel:
So, why will anyone think that someone who believes in Christ will die simply because he had sinned by commiting suicide?

A Christian is one who preaches about the gift of life and good news about how it will be preserved forever in God's kingdom so it's unchristian for anyone to take life whether of another person or self.
"You must not kill"
Whoever kills shows no appreciation for the gift of life!

AbuTwins:
Where's your proof O Jehovah witness liar?

Shi'ites and Sunnis are Muslims groups they fought for many years against one another and blood kept flowing.
Iraq and Iran were Muslim nations they fought for many years and blood kept flowing.

Can you tell me which of these groups failed to MEMORIZE your Quran effectively?

NO!

That shows the memorization is worthless!

AbuTwins:
But you still excommunicate yourselves according to the whims of the Governing council who are your Jehovah!

Excommunication is a disciplinary action against disobedient ones that's the evidence of unity among adherents one who is excommunicated is like a quarantined sickler who shouldn't be allowed to infect others.
That's where wisdom comes in because your Allah can't see such beneficial provisions so instead of doing that to remove disobedient ones they form a group and start their own religion in the name of the same Allah after all what matters most is bowing to the black stone in Mecca then when disagreement set in you people pick up weapons against one another in the name of the same Allah! Revelations 6:3-4

Once someone has been excommunicated in JW he or she becomes a fugitive JEHOVAH'S spirit is so powerful that the excommunicated ones can never ever form another religion rather they will forever remain disassociated nothing can united them talkless thinking about worship.

That's the spirit of JEHOVAH in action!

AbuTwins:
You're wrong!
The manuscript of the Qur'an is clearly okay compared to that of the Bible!
No one ever memorised the Bible in its original language!
The Qur'an is clearly a preserved miracle!

The essence of language is UNDERSTANDING!

So whatever makes people pick up weapons against one another is lack understanding so your Quran is a failure if Muslims are still going against their fellow worshipers in WARS! Zephaniah 3:9

AbuTwins:
At least what they gave me has been proven to be consistent for over 1,400 years!
Millions still memorize it today unlike one scripture that has several different corrupted translations! Hilarious indeed sir!

Memorized with love for the author or sword on the necks of adherents ?

AbuTwins:
What proof do you have that the disciples of Jesus wrote anything down?
Luke says "Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word." Luke 1:1-2
Luke was not an appointed disciple! Many wrote the NT Books, the church father selected what fits their whims and desires! And you have the NT!

Guy all these are conspiracies from those Arabs to disqualify the Bible and promote their book.
Nobody was there when the Bible was written neither is anybody there when your Quran was written so it's either you accept what we found written or you stick to the one you prefer!

AbuTwins:
How are you sure his disciples penned anything down about him?
And Paul wasn't a disciple to have written almost half of the New testament!

You see what i mean?

AbuTwins:
He forgot to tell us he was an angel even for once!

That's to say you only believe what your Arab people wrote in their own book about a Jewish man simply because they claim their guy is a prophet from the same God.

Hilarious indeed!

AbuTwins:
OK, show us who they were sent to in their Books?
Ignoramus Grandpa!

Books are written by people so it's not about books rather followers who can write anything and claim anything after they're gone just as your Arabs are saying different things about their muhammed and going about fighting to kill whoever refuses to accept their guy.

AbuTwins:
You just edited whatever you want here!
Na so JW deceit be?

Deceit that uprooted hatred from the minds of millions throughout the earth so that they no longer raised weapons against anyone because of their love for God and humanity. Isaiah 2:2-4

Such deceit is beneficial my guy!

AbuTwins:
He forgot to tell us he was an angel even for once!

Do you believe what his disciples penned down about him?

AbuTwins:
We have definition for Messengers and Prophets in Islam!

The highlighted has said it all in Islam so your criteria doesn't apply to all religions.

AbuTwins:
So who is a Prophet from the Bible?
And show us how Charles Taze Russell qualifies?

Charles Taze Russell can only be a prophet if you agree with me that all those claiming prophets are prophets too but if not then count him out!

AbuTwins:
You can add Charles Taze Russell to the lineage of Abraham then!
I don't know how an elder would be kidding like this! The Governing bodies don destroy your brain finish! No be Israelites get Prophet! Abraham was not an Israelite! Likewise Noah!
So Jehovah is not "God of Jesus" because Jehovah didn't say it right?
Jeremiah 32:27
New International Version
“I am the LORD, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me?
God is for all mankind not only relegated to Israel, Isaac or Abraham! You simply presented falsehood as usual.
Genesis 21:13
And I will also make a great nation of the son of the slave woman, because he is your offspring."
So why is the nation not written about?

You're just trying to be cunning and it won't work with me.

It's either all other nations also must produce prophets since God is for all or only Israelites produce prophets as Abraham Isaac and Jacob were mentioned as the lineage in the Bible.

Remember that we are all descendants of Noah so T.B Joshua, T.O Obadare, Chukwu Emeka Odumeje are also prophets of the same God.
Which one do you prefer?

AbuTwins:
Muslims have nothing to do with the Jehovah witness's Jesus wey be Angel, son of man, son of God, etc!
Angels no dey chop!
Jesus chop!
Angels are not born by human! Jesus was given birth to!
JW is full of heresies!

Guy that's why i told you your story book has nothing to do with the Bible!

Angels chop what Abraham's wife cooked o! Genesis 18:8

According to God's word the promised Messiah (Christ) has been existing before the creation of the earth so he is not ordinary human like your prophet o!