₦airaland Forum

honesttalk21:
Do JWs represent all nations as described in Isaiah 2 and Micah 4, or are the faithful always a small minority, as suggested in Revelation 20:8? Which is it, because both can't be true?

Just as only Adam and Eve started the planet and just as Noah and his family populated this planet the God of Abraham only need few faithful people in each nation!

honesttalk21:
Do numbers matter, or not? If numbers are irrelevant, then stop using your global presence as an argument. If they do matter, how do 8 million JWs represent all nations better than Islam (1.8 billion) or Christianity (2.4 billion)?

The number matters only when we have disciples of the Prince of Peace in every nation of the earth. The 1.8 billion you are talking about aren't faithful to your God nah!🙂

honesttalk21:
Where is the Psalm 37 scenario playing out? Where is the removal of the wicked, the meek inheriting the earth, and the abundance of peace when wars are still happening and JWs make up only 0.1% of the global population?

It's after we have gathered peace lovers from all nations throughout the earth that the end will come as angels will act in destroying disobedience people! Matthew 24:14

honesttalk21:
How do the failed predictions of 1914, 1925, and 1975 not violate Deuteronomy 18:21-22? Where does the Bible say it's okay to excuse false prophecies with the idea of progressive understanding?

Can you present one publication of JWs where a specific date is mentioned with the prophecy you are talking about?
Do Muslims talk about the end of all evil?
So do you take that as an accusation that those saying it are false prophets?🙂

honesttalk21:
If infighting among Muslims disproves Islam, do the JW practices of disfellowshipping, family shunning, abuse scandals, and doctrinal changes disprove Watchtower by the same logic?

Disfellowshipping is the punishment for anyone who turn against organizational arrangement so once a person stops believing in what Jesus commanded such a person is no longer one of us. It's unlike your Islam where you people will pick up weapons in support of sides yet claiming worshipers of the same God.

honesttalk21:
How does enforcing shunning and cutting off parents from their children fulfill John 13:34-35's command to be known by our love?

Nobody is forcing anybody, you become a member of our organization through studying and accepting what we believe so once you turn against what you agree to keep it's love for the rest to quarantine you! Romans 16:17; 2John 10-11

honesttalk21:
If Jesus already brought peace, why did he say he came to bring division (Matthew 10:34; Luke 12:51)? And if Christian violence didn't invalidate Christianity, why does Muslim violence invalidate Islam?

The peace Jesus brought only exists among those who believe in his teachings you can't expect improvement from patients who refuse to take their medications nah!🙂

honesttalk21:
Why do doctrines about blood transfusions, organ transplants, and generations change if God's truth is unchanging (Malachi 3:6)?

What do you mean by this one again?😂

honesttalk21:
How is redefining the failed visible return of Christ in 1914 as an invisible one not simply moving the goalposts?

Jesus returned in the year 1914 and that is not visible but evidence is global since everything he talked about is noticed globally from that time till today! Matthew 24:7-14

honesttalk21:
The main inconsistency is this: Why are Muslims condemned for human failures, while JW failures are excused as the actions of imperfect humans or attributed to new light?

There is no failure in late understanding of what is learned but killing fellow believers while your religion keeps greeting "SALAM" is clear failure of your God, his prophet and book!

honesttalk21:
How do you explain three long-time Jehovah’s Witness elders convening a judicial committee on July 14, 2025, to examine alleged sins including blasphemy and responsibility for deaths (2021–2022) attributed to eight Governing Body members and that after refusing repentance these leaders were disfellowshipped?

You keep going in circus.
Disfellowshiping unrepentant wrongdoers is what Jesus commanded! Matthew 18:15-17

honesttalk21:
Are we using one standard or two? Either human failure invalidates religious claims, or it doesn't. Let's apply the same rules across the board.

We are using the same standard it's you who is deceiving yourself while arguing up and down over Arab religion which has nothing beneficial other than bowing to the black stone in Mecca!🙂

He himself is sinning against the spirit of God!🙂

honesttalk21:
If this prophecy were actually happening, the wicked wouldn't still be in charge.

Obviously you are not honest hearted as you claim!

Now read it again and tell me if it's not talking about our time:


Be still before the Lord and wait patiently for him; do not fret when people succeed in their ways, when they carry out their wicked schemes. Refrain from anger and turn from wrath; do not fret—it leads only to evil. For those who are evil will be destroyed, but those who hope in the Lord will inherit the land. A little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found. But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy peace and prosperity. ‭Psalms 37:7-11 NIV‬

The highlighted in red is specific telling us not to be carried away with the evil deeds others may be doing neither should we envy their success because God will judge them.

Now tell me how your Muslim people who are fighting and killing themselves could prove innocent while fighting and killing not just faithless people but your own brothers who are carrying the same book!🙂

annyplenty:
Let us look at the two scriptures you quoted for justification that men and women can wear earrings
1.Romans 15:4 KJV
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
This scripture neither bears relevance to the issue of earrings nor to the fact that we can wear earrings because Rebekah that was coming from idolatrous, home wore earrings, and who was not even married to Isaac at that time wore it.
2. The second scripture you quoted as your justification for earrings and example of faith for us to follow is even talking about the people that God destroyed in the wilderness for not obeying Him. Read from verse 5 below

1 Corinthians 10:5-11 KJV
But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

[6] Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

[7] Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

[8] Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

[9] Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

[10] Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

[11] Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.



They are not my self righteousness. They are principles founded in the Bible.

God gives us His commandments to obey; or are you saying otherwise?

Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith
Hebrews 12:2 KJV
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

And lastly, verse 31 of 1 Cor 10, you quoted say

1 Corinthians 10:31 KJV
Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

When you puncture your nose and ears and lips and put rings into them, what glory is there for God?

Is God's glory in the appearance of His faithful worshipers like Rebecca?🙂

annyplenty:
That anyone mentioned in the Bible did something is not a license for Christian to do it. Many of them were just learning God and never knew the way of God in full.

The Bible calls them examples of faith! Romans 15:4; 1Corinthans 10:11
So if God never condemned their action you can't!

annyplenty:
Solomon married hundreds of wives. Abraham went into the maid of his wife. Rebekah wore earrings and many more: all these examples are not a license to repeat what they did.

Solomon did what is wrong according to God's word he shouldn't have married pagans neither increase women for himself! Deuteronomy 7:3
That's why he failed.

annyplenty:
What can be used as yardsticks for our behavior as Christians are as follows, and not what a random Bible personality did.

1. What God commanded us in the Bible to do

2. What God rebuked or commended people in the Bible for doing

3. Jesus our role model: what he can do and what he cannot do

4. What ever will bring glory to God

Can you back all these your self righteous rules with the Bible by pointing out which one condemns the use of earrings?🙂

honesttalk21:
Plus, quoting the Psalms to attack Muhammad pbuh is a bad move. Qur'an 21:105 clearly acknowledges David, showing a connection, not a lack of understanding.

Your Muhammad quoted David but why can't he help his followers to put trust in the God who made that promise?

Instead Muhammad's followers are still fighting and killing themselves for power yet they have what David said about the righteous in their book.

honesttalk21:
And using the black stone thing to bash Islam is a cheap shot. Wars are about the struggle for power.

Today when Muslims hear that Muslims in any part of the earth are killed your people will unite planning to revenge but then when Muslims are killing their own fellow Muslims you will say they are struggling for power. I wonder why you failed to see the hypocrisy in that yet you called yourself "honesttalk"

So what is the essence of their faith?

Please what exactly is the purpose of your religion if those claiming believers in your religion failed to live by the things written in their book?🙂

So just as God included Rahab an harlot from Jericho and Ruth an idolater from Moab in his promises so that their names were included in the history of Jesus Christ {Matthew 1:5 compare to Hebrews 11:31} the same will happen to any human who proved to be faithful to the word of God:


For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. ‭John 3:16 NIV‬

Note the highlighted in red "whoever believes in Jesus Christ will not perish" but whoever fails to believe in Jesus will surely perish whether he is a descendant of Jacob or not! John 3:17-18

honesttalk21:
Jesus told his followers to avoid violence, sure, but he never implied wars would magically disappear before the end times.

Of course disobedient humans will still continue fighting and killing themselves thinking they are doing so for justice nah!🙂
That is why God's word to faithful people is to wait for the judgment of God:

Keep silent before Jehovah And wait expectantly for him. Do not be upset by the man Who succeeds in carrying out his schemes.  Let go of anger and abandon rage; Do not become upset and turn to doing evil.  For evil men will be done away with, But those hoping in Jehovah will possess the earth.  Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.  But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. Psalms 37:7-11

This prophecy is undergoing fulfilment in our time, the Prince of Peace has come in person of Jesus Christ {Isaiah 9:6} so all those believing in him will not take up weapons against anyone while Satan's worshipers will be blindfolded thinking they are fighting for justice! Revelation 6:3-4

Of course you should know that Satan's worshipers will always outnumber faithful people nah! Revelation 20:8🙂

When God makes promises it's not to the faithless but faithful so whether you are a descendant of Jacob by birth or not wherever you may come from once you prove to be faithful to the words of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob He will count you as one of the descendants of Jacob but even though you are one of Mary's children but prove faithless to the words of God His promises doesn't include you.

That is what Paul told the Christians in Rome:

Circumcision is, in fact, of benefit only if you practice law; but if you are a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. If, therefore, an uncircumcised person keeps the righteous requirements of the Law, his uncircumcision will be counted as circumcision, will it not?  And the physically uncircumcised person will, by carrying out the Law, judge you who are a transgressor of law despite having its written code and circumcision. For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision something on the outside, on the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit and not by a written code. That person’s praise comes from God not from people. Romans 2:25-29

John the baptist a highly respected first century prophet plainly told the first century Jews that if they proved faithless to the words of God God will raise children from stone for the promises He made to their forefathers and fulfill those promises but as for faithless Jews they will be cast out or destroyed! Matthew 3:9; Luke 3:9

So my friend, God's promises to Israel is not for faithless people but faithful ones no matter where they come from!

immanuelmanny:
So did God lie to them when he said he'll destroy all the nations in the end leaving them to a kingdom without their enemies oppressing them?
Jeremiah 10-11, Isaiah 14:1-2, Isaiah 60 and Isaiah 61
Even Christ said he came for the Israelites only,
Matthew 1:20, Matthew 2:6, Matthew 15:24, Luke 1:68-72
Jew is only stand for the Southern kingdom after the split in 1 Kings 12, the Northern kingdom who became gentiles needed to be reconciled to Israel again so God could fulfil his promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel) and his children

He resurrected as a spirit {1Corinthans 15:44} his human body was taken away by angels as the ultimate sacrifice for sin that is why he kept appearing to his own disciples in different unrecognizable bodies.
What each person needs Jesus used to appear. In the real sense Jesus was raised with a perfect incorruptible spirit body! 1Corinthans 15:42
So if what Thomas needs to see before believing that his beloved friend, brother and master is now alive are the scars Jesus will present it to this loyal friend of his to gain him!🙂

honesttalk21:
Jesus said wars would keep happening in Matthew 24:7

Because Satan and Demons driven away from heaven will come down to planet earth and possess many unbelievers {Revelation 12:12} true believers will not be part of them due to our faith in the Prince of Peace {John 17:14} that is why Jesus prayed to God for protection of his obedient disciples {John 17:15} so when you people are fighting and killing one another claiming you are doing so for justice {Revelations 6:3-4} God's word urged us to trust in God and refrain from violence {Psalms 37:6-8} because haughty people will be destroyed but we who are patiently waiting for God's divine judgement will be blessed to live on planet earth {Psalms 37:9-11} for how long? God's word said forever! Psalms 37:29
That is why Jesus said we who are MEEK or HUMBLE will take possession of the earth! Matthew 5:5 compare to Zephaniah 2:2-3
Your muhammad don't know what God will use as criteria for righteousness but he quoted David instead of seeking true knowledge. Quran 21:105🙂

Fenrir:
Got banned for common European non offensive saying. No tried with you before and you couldn't handle metaphors without labels and you blocked.

When you are banned it's due to the use of offensive word so you can't discuss without insulting others.
Thank you!🙂

This is what Mohandas Gandhi a man who read what Jesus taught with sincerity and honesty said about those claiming Christians.

"I like your Christ but i don't like your Christians because you Christians are unlike your Christ"

Do you think he will say this if he knows what i'm showing you today?

honesttalk21:
Acts 1:8 and Matthew 28:19-20 are about spreading the word, not about eliminating war before God steps in.

Jesus commanded his disciples never to raise weapons against anyone be it friend or foe {Matthew 5:43-48} even though the authorities sent thugs to get Jesus Peter wanted to fight Jesus rebuked him {Matthew 26:52} so when everyone obey the Prince of Peace wars will cease to the extremity of the earth but what about those who failed to get the message?
They will be destroyed! Revelation 11:18

Guy your own god may not be organized but the true God is, we know His reasons for destroying people it's not about bowing towards a black stone in Mecca it's about what Satan is doing underG to make sure mankind wipe out himself on this planet {Revelation 12:12} that is the reason why God sent His son to organize all lovers of peace globally not just bowing towards the same direction yet when there is a dispute they pick up weapons against one another!🙂

Deway52:
I am convinced that JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are the real religion, they do everything in line with the bible.
Na small time remain for me now, I don enter. If everybody in the world is a jw the world would be a better place.

Fenrir:
ATHIEST!!

I don't get what you meant by the word "ATHEIST"
Are you trying to say atheists can demand politeness from others while they don't need to be polite?🙂

Fenrir:
Im an atheist, I dont believe in religion i just like the story. Magic sky wizard gets people drunk on water wine
Turns into zombie to and cures the apple cure. That would be an awesome movie

Here is the question again:

Please can you discuss without insulting the person chatting with you?

honesttalk21:
The Amish and Mennonites are also pacifist groups,

Are they making disciples globally for the Prince of Peace! Act 1:8
Are they going to all the nations to make people disciples of Christ {Matthew 28:19-20} or using God's word to settle their disparities? Matthew 5:9

For your information the destruction of unbelievers will be based on obedience to the Prince of Peace {Isaiah 9:6} as they failed to obey the son of God! John 3:16-19

So it's after Jehovah's Witnesses have gathered peace lovers throughout the earth that God will send His angels to destroy warmongers because they are running our planet due to their wars! Revelations 11:18

Unfortunately most people are judging today and surely it is their own choice of judgement they will get in return from God!

honesttalk21:
Those prophecies speak of a widespread peace, established and maintained by God Himself.

If JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are people from all the nations of the world and the peace mentioned in the Bible book of Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3 and Zephaniah 3:9 is working among us what else do you need to tell you that it's God who is making this happen among people from different countries?🙂
If i asked you how your muhammad can be counted among God's prophets even though he is not related to Jacob you will start quoting the Bible.
So what evidence do you have that the scriptures your people are quoting in support of Muhammad aren't meant for another future prophet?🙂

Fenrir:
What exactly insulting what i said? None of it was sweating none of it an attack or I would have gotten banned

Not my fault you dont understand advanced and victorian English

Here is the question i asked you:

Please can you discuss without insulting the person chatting with you?

It only requires a YES or NO response!🙂

Globally all Jehovah's Witnesses fulfilled that prophecy perfectly so when you hear of war among people claiming they are worshipers of God know today that you can't find one member of Jehovah's Witnesses there.
That's the distinction between true and false religions!🙂

honesttalk21:
You have certain fixations on your belief but know the writings you refer to point to a future, God-given peace that's yet to come, not a present-day sign of truth. Based on your own criteria, both Christianity and the Jehovah's Witnesses would fall short, given their internal disagreements, prophecies that haven't panned out, and the continued presence of conflict. The scriptures don't say that current harmony among believers is what proves God's validity. That perfect peace is something promised for the end times, not necessarily for right now.

Fenrir:
You actually understood it? You lot have got pidgin but ive got posh

No problem Sir, at least you have proved there is no need being polite but i can't discuss with people who are used to insulting others. So if you can't discuss without insulting others yet demanding what you can't give it's OK by me i will just waka pass!🙂

The only evidence that the God of Israel is the true God comes from His ability to create peace among His worshipers {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3; Zephaniah 3:9} with the use of the scriptures apart from that all religions are the same you are just deceiving yourself with worthless books if your book can't make peace reign among its adherents.

That's the only proof of authenticity over all other religions!🙂

honesttalk21:
Let me point to you the following:

1. False causation as Israel’s judgment doesn't equate automatic replacement” by Christians.

2.Category error as scripture truth doesn't translate to perfection of followers. Even Jesus states only God is good.

3. Your standard of demanding flawless peace now contradicts biblical eschatology.

4. You excuse Christian failures but condem Islamic ones.

5. Worship doesn't equate peace or obedience; both texts allow human failure.

6. Scripture never requires any community to achieve perfect global peace as proof of revelation's validity. You've invented a standard neither Bible nor Qur'an demands

Fenrir:
Cease your vociferations crony antecedently I......
Discombobulate thy pugnacious and supercilious self with supercalifragilisticexpialidocious sesquidalia

It's OK Sir!😂

"Be nice it's not an insult"

Please can you discuss without insulting the person chatting with you?

Because i want to discuss with you on Bible and Christianity.

Note one thing:

I belong to the one and only Christian Organization producing the fruit of faith which no religion can produce so try to maintain our discussion based on what i present to you as written in the Bible not on what the churches of Christendom are doing!🙂

honesttalk21:
Jesus didn't say that God's revealed truth became worthless. Rather, he indicated that a privilege was being taken away, but the truth itself remained. Matthew 21:43 is a condemnation of a generation's shortcomings, not a dismissal of God's word. If failure invalidated revelation, then Moses, the prophets, and even the disciples themselves could be considered bad trees. The presence of bad fruit reveals disobedient people, not a corrupted source of truth.
I don't know what misinterpretation or misunderstanding stands in and between you and your Imam.

The purpose of those scriptures wasn't met that is why God rejected the nation and replaced them with Christians and destroyed that nation with their temple.

So can you present an Islamic group that is producing what we are saying now?

If Islam is just about bowing down to the deity and no lasting peace among those worshiping your god then how can that be a replacement for the nation of Israel that also committed the same blunder repeatedly?🙂

honesttalk21:
That principle applies to everyone. A sacred text is evaluated based on its teachings and directives, not on every shortcoming of its adherents. According to your own scriptures, Israel faltered time and again, yet God's law wasn't dismissed as valueless; the people were judged, not the divine message.

God rejected the nation of Israel since they are not producing the fruit of faith {Matthew 21:43; 23:37-38} that is what our Iman used to quote so this is no time to be dishonest my guy.
That nation has been condemned because they failed to produce the fruit of faith and so makes the divine writings worthless before observers.

honesttalk21:
Islam clearly instructs the very virtues you mention,justice, compassion, forbearance, discipline, peacemaking while denouncing tyranny and violence. When Muslims transgress these virtues, it's an act of disobedience, not evidence of the Qur'an's failure. Deplorable actions demonstrate a flawed response, not a flawed source.

You should understand the metaphor used in your book where a good tree is true guidance and produces good fruit when obeyed; bad fruit shows disobedience, not that the tree itself is rotten.

Jesus said it's a bad tree that will produce a rotten fruit. Matthew 7:16-18

Now is the time to be honest with yourself my guy!🙂

Well that is the purpose of the holy book so if any community failed in that aspect then the religion is useless!

Jesus said:

"By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they?  Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit" Matthew 7:16-18

So if your holy book failed to make this work in the gathering of it's adherents then that book is worthless.

The purpose of anything called "HOLY" is to produce a unique FRUIT in the midst of imperfect humans that FRUIT should have these nine qualities:

LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, KINDNESS, GOODNESS, FAITH, MILDNESS, SELF-CONTROL.

Paul said: "against these qualities there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23😟

honesttalk21:
You're right. Taking up arms against fellow Muslims, particularly those within your own family or community, is definitely off-limits in Islam. The Qur'an actually instructs believers to sort things out and talk to each other (Qur'an 49:9-10), which involves respecting our elders and finding peaceful solutions to disagreements. Weapons are really only meant for self-defense or to put an end to injustice, not for petty squabbles or political power plays among those who share the same faith.
Where Muslims end up fighting each other, even with wise counsel and guidance available, it really just shows that we're fallible humans who sometimes misinterpret things or simply ignore good advice. It's not a problem with Islam itself. The core of Islam is about unity, fairness, and looking out for each other, with a strong emphasis on respecting family bonds and the wisdom of our community elders.

Guy weapons means ending the lives of people you know just as Cain killed Abel so it's meant for enemies not families.
Therefore when you raise weapons against someone do you still refer to such a person as your family before the elders of that family?🙂

So weapons aren't meant for brothers in faith that is what makes Islam useless because if truly Allah exists and you guys have elders in your religion there is no reason for brothers to raise weapons against one another!🙂

honesttalk21:
It's human to disagree, but violence doesn't automatically make something evil. It really comes down to moral boundaries. Even your own holy writings acknowledge that using force is okay in some situations, like defending yourself or when justice demands it. The issue isn't with weapons themselves, but with unjust acts of aggression. To pin all use of force on Satan is to ignore the truth and even go against what the Bible teaches. Look at Exodus 22:2, which says it's acceptable to kill a burglar if you're defending yourself, or Romans 13:4, which tells us that authority does not bear the sword in vain.

honesttalk21:
What exactly is your point?

There is no way people won't argue over what is right to do but lifting weapons against one another is Satan's work o!😃

Honesty is far from you my guy!🙂

So arguments among Jesus' disciples is equal to killings among Muslims shey?😃

Surely the disciples argued when they've not received the holy spirit but Paul publicly corrected Peter for hypocrisy and Peter later commended Paul for his steadfastness. 2Peter 3:15

There is no record of Christians fighting and killing themselves in the Bible!🙂

honesttalk21:
Indeed Matthew 10:34 highlights that accepting Jesus can lead to external opposition rather than ensuring harmony within the community. The Scriptures acknowledge that there were indeed internal conflicts among Jesus' followers. For instance, the disciples argued about their status (Luke 22:24; Mark 9:34), expressed indignation toward each other (Matt 20:24), had sharp disagreements (Acts 15:36–40), and churches experienced divisions (1 Cor 1:10–12). Additionally, Paul confronted Peter directly (Gal 2:11–14). As a result, the New Testament contradicts the notion that Jesus guaranteed ongoing peace among his followers. While peace is an ideal fostered by the Spirit (Gal 5:22), the Scriptures make a clear distinction between divine teachings and the shortcomings of the believers within the community.

Kushites:
HE "PROMISED TO".....?
I ASKED YOU WHAT THE BOOK HAS ACHIEVED, NOT WHAT IT "PROMISED" TO ACHIEVE.

Do you think i'm just concerned about the Author's promise alone?

Come on, it's happening today!

The invisible Author has gathered people from all the nations of the world and made them One global family of peace so if you here of wars or killings in any part of the earth today His own worshipers are no part of such killings and He has given them a new GROUP NAME that everyone knows today! Isaiah 65:15